Re: [EVGRAY] Triple thick BiTT

DougKurt lives in Calgary, only about 2700 miles from Toronto, but still close.He has a solar and geo heating business the same as my friend in Toronto.Mike's sister in Calgary, knew Kurt, and got us connected.I have corresponded with Kurt, through Mike.As you know, Kurt was a protege of Zilano, hence, my interest in connecting.Mike has now taken over my studio in Toronto, as his workshop, so it tends to be a small world up here.First thing he did, was tear out the natural gas furnace, and install a heat pump. Mike has the VW diesel truck he is doing an electric conversionCheers Warren

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  On Sun, Jan 21, 2018 at 12:32 PM, [email protected] [EVGRAY]<[email protected]> wrote:       


Hi Warren

I think LED lights, but maybe quartz??

I am trying to get a hold of Kurt - I guess he lives up near you in Toronto someone told me today....

I looked up LED lights on ebay tonight, trying to find the one he used...but could not find same looking type just ones similar-looking....




tried to read the writing on the base he shows - it is hard to read...took photo and blew it up still could not read it but looks like it says 12V and 300ma - so if so, and that bulb only pulls 300ma "no matter what" then approx. 18Vdc X .3A = 5.4W still OU but not so much.... 

ciao

Kone

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Hi Warren
 Thanks for the info ...
 I went to KKs youtube channel trying to find contact and saw one year ago he posted some videos of the Akula/Kapadanze device he has built I guess you probably know about this...here are the videos...
 Really I hate to bother him about the simpleton BiTT experiments from 4 years ago....
 

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80jQAXf6VOw&t=225s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80jQAXf6VOw&t=225s
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUXevuDFtE0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUXevuDFtE0

Hi Kone,

The current written on the lamp is at 12V AC. Without knowing the characteristics of the lamp there is no way of knowing the actual current. It also reads 3W but this is also at 12V. So which one is correct at 16.95V if any one of them?!

I think this is what it says on the LED lamp:
3W 3000K
12V 50-60Hz 360mA
4GU5.3MR16-C
Made in China
Fabrique en China

If the lamp dissipates 3W it uses 4.32VA (= 12V X 360mA) apparent power having a cosine to the phase angle of 3W/4.32VA = 0.69.

Here are some lamps getting close to this one:
https://www.amazon.de/M%C3%BCller-Licht-Reflektor-GU5-3-Energieeffizienzklasse-56025/dp/B00EHFYRO4 https://www.amazon.de/M%C3%BCller-Licht-Reflektor-GU5-3-Energieeffizienzklasse-56025/dp/B00EHFYRO4

https://www.pearl.de/a-NX2604-3303.shtml;jsessionid=kE13E6B9CF03296E32DBCF9C4C4B367B3 https://www.pearl.de/a-NX2604-3303.shtml;jsessionid=kE13E6B9CF03296E32DBCF9C4C4B367B3

But no datasheet showing the electrical characteristics. Is it constant power or constant current or are both variables depending on each other as per Ohm's and Watt's laws?

Conclusion is that it's hard to know anything about the load without a proper measurement when using a nonlinear load as LEDs are as well as if the lamp has its own regulator or it doesn't.

Regards
Ole 

---In [email protected], <konehead@...> wrote :

 Hi Warren
 Actually it is 360ma that his bulb shows written on the base, and 12Vdc.......
 So if 16.92V (not approx. 18 like I wrote) that comes to 16.95Vdc X .36A =
 6.1 Watts output compared to the .39 X 12V input of 4.68Watts
 I just assumed that is an LED, I don't know! maybe it is not and all the LED characteristics of over-voltage and what happens to current  just do not matter....
 He uses what looks like four LEDs he says of 3W each in his other video, to get a 12W load these look smaller but do not know for sure...
 ciaoKone

Hi Doug, Sven,
I've tried many versions of BIT transformers including Metglass input and
output toroidal cores, ferrite input Metaglass output, air gaps etc, also
Bill Alec's version from Auratek recently patented  (US patent 9620280)
attached.
I have not every been able to get over unity with any of my own efforts.

However the increase of output when one side is loaded and the other
shorted proves the BITT concept is sound.
For me Lenz loading effect always raises it's ugly head, it reflects back
to the input lowering the input impedance so much that input always
exceeded output.

So I looked at delaying the field reaching the drive cores by enclosing the
input wire coils as I shared here.
It did not give me over unity but it did the job of delaying the Lenz
current to better than 90 degrees behind the input current.
Unfortunately the energy required to saturate my painted florist wire coils
overcomes efficiency gains.

I could have tried instead wrapping the entire input coil itself with
florist wire, it just occurred to me.
This way less energy would be required to do the saturation job ...as the
increase in milliampere turns would do the work cumulatively.
I know it'll still have hysteresis effect in the steel though.

I haven't read this new patent fully yet, I was told that Bill Alec used
many many turns on the input coil to try to get as near 90 degree lag of
current behind the voltage.
In the video he claims better than 90 degrees at some frequencies.
Hence the overunity claim at the Tesla conference.

In perfect inductor with no resistance 90 degrees is theoretically max lag
of current behind voltage.
But if looked at from a time delay perspective say at 50Hz one cycle takes
20 milliseconds to elapse the 360 degrees.
So for  90 degrees or 1/4 cycle we are looking for 5 milliseconds or
preferably longer.

Tesla used a fine wire iron screen to achieve this in his patent as
mentioned by  Ole already.

I made up a quick version of your one Doug using 65 pieces of U shaped
plain thin fencing wire and 3 pre made coils.
The efficiency was lousy about 8 % with mine, tho I could see the load
increase effect.

Sorry for rant Gerry




On Sun, Jan 21, 2018 at 6:52 PM, [email protected] [EVGRAY] <
[email protected]> wrote:

>
>
> Hi Timothy
>
> I watched the video of the 20K old transformer - sorry I don't believe it
> only because of the four light socket holes which I am sure they would not
> of had 20K years ago and I would bet this is leftover stuff from bombings
> and the war in Kosove and stone metled from some high tech
> bombs......however I am sure the Egyptians and ancient Iraqis had electric
> lights, and probably many civilizations more advanced than outs have lived
> and died the past million years...
>
> ciaoKone
>
>
> 
>

Hi Gerry
 Great ideas and quick work for easy experiment....for sure you have time-shifted (delayed lenz) it ....if this was a generator coil with rotating magnets in rotor sweeping past, now you could get speed up under load at a certain frequency....Thane Karl Heinz in permanent-magnet rotor rgenerators,  will achieve this delayed lenz  with high impedance coil winds which take a bit of time to saturate/create a strong magnetic field....so very interesting  your method to also get delayed lenz....
 

 maybe not so much florist wire and leave gaps in winds and use high impedance coils so the coil does not have to work so hard to 
penetrate that steel wire? I don't know just idea....
 

 Also it semms to me (but I dojnt know for sure!) that what the BiTT is doing is just giving the BACKEMF FLOW (that inherent to all magnetic fields) a differnent road to follow that will not smash it against the primary and "reflect" into extra primary draw.....and to make this happen, you need to have a sort of head-on collision between the "forward" flow and the backemf/backwards flow and it is this collision that forces the backemf to take another much easier route and road to follow, and that is to the other side of the transformer via those extra legs top and bottom.....seems to me (but I don't know) if you do cause a delayed lenz effect, now there is also a delay in the backemf flow too, and now the forward flow and the backemf flow do not "Collide" so forcefully as one or the other has become delayed as compared to the other!....and the magnetic field flow through the transformer does not want "So much" to take that road back to the opposite secondary.....I don't know if this is clear but I think it requires a sort of bucking effect to knock the flux over into the extra transformer leg that leads back to the opposite secondary.....so you want ADDITIVE power to happen in the secondaries, not blocking/reflective power going back to primary as in normal transformers (as you know)  and "maybe" what does cause that magnetic flow to go onto that extra leg is the abrupt and timed-together collision of backemf with forward current flow and this collision must be storng and forceful collision and maybe your delayed lenz thing has weakened it...(but I domnt knoiw just thinking!)
 

 So this has all got me thinking too - if you know how an ORBO motor works, it has a ferrous core "tube" and then windings go around and inside  and through the tube ""torroid wound" not solenoid type)
 And then rotor magnets pull themselves naturally to the core, and there is apulse of current into the torroid winds to shield/cancel the magnetic field of the rotor magnets, and so the rotor magnet sweeps right past with no pull-back to it and they actually go very good, a good ORBOmotor,.....the first one I made went great I used ferrite tube cores and had it Muller-style (axial) with the cores and torroid coils each side of a rotor with neodymium mangets about same siaxe and shape as the ferrite tube cores....
 Anyways your idea to wind electromagnetic coils with florist wire got me thinking (thanks!) to replace the ferrite cores in my  ORBO design with coils wound with florist wire - why not?  Now wind the torroid winds inside and around the florist wire coil/core.....just as I  did with the ferrite tube.....then pulse the torroid with current at just the right time, to cancel the magnetic field of the rotor magnet, just like before in ferrite-cored ORBO motor....Now you can also pulse the florist wire coil too, to be attractive and/or pulse it to repel too (experiment to try) and where this might be really great is to make it a pure-generator, and the inner florist wire coil  just pulls the rotor magnet to it, then switch iinto load the torroid-wind around the florist wire coil at same period of time in rotation as you would to get the ORBO motor-effect and "perhaps" the generator/torroid will use lenz law induction effect to cancel or shield the rotor magnet field around the florist wire core - ORBO motors do not care which way you send in current to cause the magnetic shield effect so maybe this might work having the generator-torroid coil hit load at same time you would pulse the torroid in an ORBO motor to make rotor sweep past easily.....I don't know I have more ideas with this idea but will stop here b before I get too scatterbrained about it....here is link to my ORBO motor I built maybe 8 years ago: look at the coils at bottom of page and imagine cores to be florist wire cores instead of the ferrite tubes and then imagine the possibilities after that
 https://sites.google.com/site/alternativeworldenergy/orbo-design-motor https://sites.google.com/site/alternativeworldenergy/orbo-design-motor

Hi Doug, Sven, Ole guys
Here attached is a pair of small coils wound on laminated steel core, sorry
for rough job, just want to show whats possible.
The primary coil is plain enameled copper wire, the secondary coil is
copper wire with a coiled steel florist wire continuous shield.

The Red trace is the input current at 10KHz.
The Yellow trace is output into a 100 Ohm resistor.

On the screen 10 major divisions equals 360 degrees, at 10 microseconds per
division.
We are triggering off the Red trace.

Where the Red trace rises above the centre zero line for the first time is
our zero degrees point.
We can see that the Yellow output current & volts trace doesn't rise above
the zero line until 2.8 divisions later.

So if 10 major divisions equals 360 degrees then 1 major division is 36
degrees yes?

Hi Gerry'
 Thanks for the advice and ideas again - I agree with the AC swing analogy...when I was in Germany the engineer there (HD) described just the same thing in AC in his MEG and timing things just right in analogy with swing...
 I understand your idea with my ORBOI motor maybe the shielding of the steel to the rotor magnets will be better more efficient rather than copper torroid surround a ferrite core and then the primary inside  of the copper wire would be creating power each pulse too - I can imagine coils sticking out from stators 15cm long with that thick copper wire jammed up the middle....
 

 What I was trying to get at about the BiTT and the backemf forces, is just what is it that creates that "split" of the backemf force from the forward-current magnetic force, and for that backemf force to run along those extra transformer legs leading back to the opposite secondary, and not route itself back to primary??? 
 There being thicker core material is "giving it" the path to follow, but what is is that make the backemf go that way?   
 This is the only way to make a BiTT really work scuh as X3 OU  in my measly opinion, and that is for the backemf (and backemf only) to take that route and add power to opposite secondary......if it does not, it is just a fairly efficient transformer design....So my idea of how it works and why it works is that there is a bucking-collision of forward and the inherent back emf  and the bucking collision causes the intitial split, and once split, the backemf goes over to the opposite secondary....so what causes this split?? My idea is it an inherent thing such as Leedskalin saying there is always in magnetism a forward and an opposite magnetic force, and perhaps the primary's magnetic force is what creates the smashing event to the secondary, and this secondary and primary must share the exact same time flow  in first place, but when the primary brick wall oif magnetism gets in the way, there is the bucking event....if there is time delay, perhaps now there will not be a bucking event because either the primary or the secondary will not have the exact same collision force and one will dominate (whichever is stronger) and the backemf flux will not be "dislodged" from the forward magnetic force rather they will continue together locked tight and just go back to primary causing the extra draw there...
 ciaoKone

Some thing about George
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/man-hopes-prove-earth-flat-213624305.html

Don't do it George !!!! George come back !!
On Jan 22, 2018 6:41 PM, "Gerry [email protected] [EVGRAY]" <
[email protected]> wrote:

>
>
> Hi Doug,
> That shielded wire idea can be used with many different types of
> transformers and different situations to get some extra delay.
> It's not without some losses too..... it's just another tool for our
> arsenal.
>
> To answer what you asked about BITT transformer.
>
> "What I was trying to get at about the BiTT and the backemf forces, is
> just what is it that creates that "split" of the backemf force from the
> forward-current magnetic force, and for that backemf force to run along
> those extra transformer legs leading back to the opposite secondary, and
> not route itself back to primary???"
>
> I just try to think of the input flux and the output fluxes separately.
> Sure they both absolutely have to share a common flux path at the output
> coils.
>
> But we should keep the cause of the fluxes separate in our own mind.
>
> If the load draws no output current then there is no "Back EMF or Lenz
> flux" generated.. there is only input flux created by input ac Voltage
> source .
>
> If our BITT or other transformer has a  load connected then there will be
> an additional large Lenz flux flux generated by the load current itself.
>
>
> Flux will always take the easiest path just like current does.
> If there is a common pathway and two fluxes are travelling in opposite
> directions along that flux path, they effectively subtract from each other
> even though each one is still present.
> (Whilst the electrostatic field at right angles to the flux field will add
> to each other).
>
> If we think of the flux pathway as a single horizontal resistor hooked
> between positive terminals of 2 batteries with common earth.
> Say 1 battery supplies 1.5 Amps Left to Right through the resistor and the
> other supplies 1.0 amp Right to Left through resistor then the total
> current is only the difference of 0.5 amps Left to Right through the
> resistor.
>
> This is called "superposition theorem" and applies equally to flux paths.
> We consider each separately then algebraically add them up.
>
> Now say we could temporarily reverse the direction of current from one of
> the batteries the current would be cumulative and no longer subtractive, so
> we'd get 2.5 amps rather than 0.5 amps.
> (sort of what we're doing by timing how long the flux takes to reurn)
>
> We could call one battery the "input flux" generator and the other battery
> the "Lenz flux" generator, their causes are separate but their combination
> is cumulative in a magnetic circuit.
>
> In magnetics our horizontal "resistance" is called "reluctance" to the
> flow of flux.
>
> Like with resistors if we put 2 reluctances or reluctance paths in
> parallel.....  the input flux lines will divide between the  2 paths.
> The one with the lowest reluctance (or highest permeabitity) will
> receive the highest flux and the other path the lowest.
>
> Just like resistors we can use current divider formula to work out how
> much....
>
> say flux path A and flux path B in parallel magnetic circuit.
>
> Path A flux = total flux  x  Path B / (Path A + B)
>
> So getting back to the "flux split" in your thoughts above, the total flux
> in the output coil cores will be due to the load current being drawn and
> the input flux.
>
> The input flux is independently set by input current and ampere turns of
> input coil.
> The load flux or Lenz flux is dependent on the load current and at any
> load value this input/output flux split will be a set ratio.
>
> The Lenz flux almost always opposes the input flux which created it....so
> it subtracts from the input flux, this makes the input coil core path look
> less inductive, so it draws more current & requires an increase in drive
> current to get back to original flux value.
>
> However in the BITT the input flux is divided into two halves one
> clockwise the other counter clockwise. In the side by side toroids.
> This also splits the output Lenz fluxes A and B into two opposite phases,
> one  rotating clockwise the other counterclockwise, so the output signals
> are 180 degrees out of phase from each output coil.
>
> Now by providing a low reluctance flux pathway from one output coil core A
> to the other core B, a large proportion of the Lenz flux is routed to the
> opposite (and out of phase) coil.
> This Lenz flux from A side is now out 180 degrees phase with the Lenz
> field on B side so the Lenz fields tend to subtract and cancel each other
> out.
>
> 180 degrees out of phase.... equates to opposite directions just as in our
> battery subtractive currents example.
> Because the low reluctance pathway between A & B is so low, a smaller
> percentage ratio of the output Lenz flux finds its way back to the higher
> reluctance input circuit.
>
>
> Gerry
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jan 23, 2018 at 4:55 AM, [email protected] [EVGRAY] <
> [email protected] <[email protected]>> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Hi Gerry'
>>
>> Thanks for the advice and ideas again - I agree with the AC swing
>> analogy...when I was in Germany the engineer there (HD) described just the
>> same thing in AC in his MEG and timing things just right in analogy with
>> swing...
>>
>> I understand your idea with my ORBOI motor maybe the shielding of the
>> steel to the rotor magnets will be better more efficient rather than copper
>> torroid surround a ferrite core and then the primary inside  of the copper
>> wire would be creating power each pulse too - I can imagine coils sticking
>> out from stators 15cm long with that thick copper wire jammed up the
>> middle....
>>
>>
>> What I was trying to get at about the BiTT and the backemf forces, is
>> just what is it that creates that "split" of the backemf force from the
>> forward-current magnetic force, and for that backemf force to run along
>> those extra transformer legs leading back to the opposite secondary, and
>> not route itself back to primary???
>>
>> There being thicker core material is "giving it" the path to follow, but
>> what is is that make the backemf go that way?
>>
>> This is the only way to make a BiTT really work scuh as X3 OU  in my
>> measly opinion, and that is for the backemf (and backemf only) to take that
>> route and add power to opposite secondary......if it does not, it is just a
>> fairly efficient transformer design....So my idea of how it works and why
>> it works is that there is a bucking-collision of forward and the inherent
>> back emf  and the bucking collision causes the intitial split, and once
>> split, the backemf goes over to the opposite secondary.....so what causes
>> this split?? My idea is it an inherent thing such as Leedskalin saying
>> there is always in magnetism a forward and an opposite magnetic force, and
>> perhaps the primary's magnetic force is what creates the smashing event to
>> the secondary, and this secondary and primary must share the exact same
>> time flow  in first place, but when the primary brick wall oif magnetism
>> gets in the way, there is the bucking event....if there is time delay,
>> perhaps now there will not be a bucking event because either the primary or
>> the secondary will not have the exact same collision force and one will
>> dominate (whichever is stronger) and the backemf flux will not be
>> "dislodged" from the forward magnetic force rather they will continue
>> together locked tight and just go back to primary causing the extra draw
>> there...
>>
>> ciaoKone
>>
>>
>>
> 
>

Hi Doug,
I never have had any luck trying to use steel wire as a conductor, it has
far too much series resistance.
Iron doesn't have as many electrons available for conduction like copper
does.

Those coils at bottom of page at your link ....maybe can leave the core out
altogether and make them out of coiled steel florist wire with copper
through the centre as I showed?
Dunno about coupling factor losses or vibration etc...... I haven't
explored any of this.

The higher tensile wire seems to work better than soft stuff.
In my scope shot there were not enough copper winds on the primary so input
current was almost in phase with the input voltage.

Yes I agree  just like in your description above, the ac drive signal is
like a person pushing a swing.
If the swings coming back toward us.... we have to put in extra effort to
stop it , reverse it's direction to make it swing away from us.

If we can delay the swings arrival till it runs out of puff on it's own
...much easier to push.
If we can delay it further and push it while it swings away from us even
less energy required.

Since this energy is stored in the ether (magnetic field energy) it is
quite capable of collapsing on it's own without any push.
So our pushing after the point it reverses away from us results in a net
gain.

The nice thing about delaying method is that the energy gains appear in the
output circuit rather than back at the input.
Because often our signal sources cannot handle the large out of phase
reactive powers coming back at them.

Gerry
ps To make long runs of this coiled wire I do it in a battery drill chuck,
initially jamming end of wire in the chuck alongside back end of a drill
bit.
I wind about 10 turns or so then take it off and reverse it so input feed
of wire comes in at the bottom nearest the chuck.
I slide a small steel washer up against chuck jaws & make sure wire grips
the drill bit as it rotates.
Allowing the coiled end to rotate freely or it will break from stress
flexing.

I'm sure it's not the only way to get input to output delay it's just an
example of what's possible.



On Mon, Jan 22, 2018 at 10:05 PM, [email protected] [EVGRAY] <
[email protected]> wrote:

>
>
> Hi Gerry
>
> Great ideas and quick work for easy experiment....for sure you have
> time-shifted (delayed lenz) it ....if this was a generator coil with
> rotating magnets in rotor sweeping past, now you could get speed up under
> load at a certain frequency....Thane Karl Heinz in permanent-magnet rotor
> rgenerators,  will achieve this delayed lenz  with high impedance coil
> winds which take a bit of time to saturate/create a strong magnetic
> field....so very interesting  your method to also get delayed lenz....
>
>
> maybe not so much florist wire and leave gaps in winds and use high
> impedance coils so the coil does not have to work so hard to
> penetrate that steel wire? I don't know just idea....
>
>
> Also it semms to me (but I dojnt know for sure!) that what the BiTT is
> doing is just giving the BACKEMF FLOW (that inherent to all magnetic
> fields) a differnent road to follow that will not smash it against the
> primary and "reflect" into extra primary draw.....and to make this happen,
> you need to have a sort of head-on collision between the "forward" flow and
> the backemf/backwards flow and it is this collision that forces the backemf
> to take another much easier route and road to follow, and that is to the
> other side of the transformer via those extra legs top and bottom.....seems
> to me (but I don't know) if you do cause a delayed lenz effect, now there
> is also a delay in the backemf flow too, and now the forward flow and the
> backemf flow do not "Collide" so forcefully as one or the other has become
> delayed as compared to the other!....and the magnetic field flow through
> the transformer does not want "So much" to take that road back to the
> opposite secondary.....I don't know if this is clear but I think it
> requires a sort of bucking effect to knock the flux over into the extra
> transformer leg that leads back to the opposite secondary.....so you want
> ADDITIVE power to happen in the secondaries, not blocking/reflective power
> going back to primary as in normal transformers (as you know)  and "maybe"
> what does cause that magnetic flow to go onto that extra leg is the abrupt
> and timed-together collision of backemf with forward current flow and this
> collision must be storng and forceful collision and maybe your delayed lenz
> thing has weakened it...(but I domnt knoiw just thinking!)
>
>
> So this has all got me thinking too - if you know how an ORBO motor works,
> it has a ferrous core "tube" and then windings go around and inside  and
> through the tube ""torroid wound" not solenoid type)
>
> And then rotor magnets pull themselves naturally to the core, and there is
> apulse of current into the torroid winds to shield/cancel the magnetic
> field of the rotor magnets, and so the rotor magnet sweeps right past with
> no pull-back to it and they actually go very good, a good
> ORBOmotor,.....the first one I made went great I used ferrite tube cores
> and had it Muller-style (axial) with the cores and torroid coils each side
> of a rotor with neodymium mangets about same siaxe and shape as the ferrite
> tube cores....
>
> Anyways your idea to wind electromagnetic coils with florist wire got me
> thinking (thanks!) to replace the ferrite cores in my  ORBO design with
> coils wound with florist wire - why not?  Now wind the torroid winds inside
> and around the florist wire coil/core.....just as I  did with the ferrite
> tube.....then pulse the torroid with current at just the right time, to
> cancel the magnetic field of the rotor magnet, just like before in
> ferrite-cored ORBO motor....Now you can also pulse the florist wire coil
> too, to be attractive and/or pulse it to repel too (experiment to try) and
> where this might be really great is to make it a pure-generator, and the
> inner florist wire coil  just pulls the rotor magnet to it, then switch
> iinto load the torroid-wind around the florist wire coil at same period of
> time in rotation as you would to get the ORBO motor-effect and "perhaps"
> the generator/torroid will use lenz law induction effect to cancel or
> shield the rotor magnet field around the florist wire core - ORBO motors do
> not care which way you send in current to cause the magnetic shield effect
> so maybe this might work having the generator-torroid coil hit load at same
> time you would pulse the torroid in an ORBO motor to make rotor sweep past
> easily.....I don't know I have more ideas with this idea but will stop here
> b before I get too scatterbrained about it....here is link to my ORBO motor
> I built maybe 8 years ago: look at the coils at bottom of page and imagine
> cores to be florist wire cores instead of the ferrite tubes and then
> imagine the possibilities after that
>
> https://sites.google.com/site/alternativeworldenergy/orbo-design-motor
>
>
>
>
> 
>

Hi Gerry
 OK thanks for the explanations - with the BiTT, I saw both with Naudin, and also with KK that they did experiments driving them with DC....so unless this is really DC alternating into center-tapped primary (which KK did in his 4W to 8W video)  then I would think there is not the 180 degrees out of phase thing happening, (although now the collapsing field energy going backwards......which has me thinking maybe what we are looking for is combination "coherence" of the 180degree timing of opposite polarity AND the collapsing field! ...just thinking)
 

 If 180 degrees out of phase then now I can see how there will be that pathway backwards for the "lenz" as you call it, the "backemf" as I call it....
 

 But again WHY would there be a split in the lenz/backemf from the forward current? Why would it not just stay firmly attached to the forward current as it inherently by nature is?
 Maybe there is no split and this is my ridiculous idea! I 
 

 don't know but if there is not, and it is the 180 degrees out of phase event, then it would seem only the pos sine and neg sine would split, (and go its own way back to opposite secondary) not the lenz/backemf itself....
 

 Maybe because the lenz/backemf IS already backwards,  (or is trying to) it dominates the return path leg and sort of consumes any forward currents on its way back? Maybe this is what happens
 

 Sorry just rambling on
 ciao
 Kone

Hi G
 "If the load draws no output current then there is no "Back EMF or Lenz flux" generated.. there is only input flux created by input ac Voltage source "
  
 I think you meant to write  "no input current" and not "no output current"?

GerryHelp me with a magnetic issue, a little sideways from the topic, two magnets attached NS can not be pulled apart very easily except with extreme force, yet pulled 90 degrees to the line of attraction, other than obvious friction, get easier quite rapidly, leaving that zone of attraction.This quirk, is the trick the Kromery exploits, I believe, along with mechanical inertia.I am not sure how this phenomena is put mathematically, or who's rule it fall under.Cheers Warren
Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
 
  On Mon, Jan 22, 2018 at 11:51 PM, Gerry [email protected] [EVGRAY]<[email protected]> wrote:       

Hi Doug,Sorry I probably not understanding your question properly. 
The part about ...quote: There being thicker core material is "giving it" the path to follow, but what is is that make the backemf go that way?  The "Back emf" is flux itself it doesnt become emf till it strikes an inductive coil.
Flux density (phi) x Magnetic reluctance (Rm) = Magnemotive Force (mmf)is just like saying Current in Amps x Resistance in Ohms = Voltage ...from Ohms law, they are closely equivalent & analogous.
Magnetic flux will not flow from one point to another unless there is a magnetic path and a difference in magnemotive force between the two points.Just like in a resistor there HAS to be a voltage difference across a resistor for any current to flow through it ...no matter what the resistors value.
This fact is used in Wheatstone and Kelvin bridge circuits to 'balance' the bridge.
Same with magnetic circuits.... if we hook a big magnetic shunt bar between North to North and South to South of two identical strength magnets.No flux will flow through the magnetic shunt bars unless there is enough mmf difference in the strength of the two magnets for it to happen.
With the magnetic outputs being 180 degrees out of phase in the BITT , a large difference in mmf exists between each output point on the output core.Only because they are out of phase and thus a large Lenz flux passes through them when loads are applied to output coils.
I hope this better I'm not real good at explaining stuff,Gerry
 
On Tue, Jan 23, 2018 at 12:59 PM, James Glinski [email protected] [EVGRAY] <[email protected]> wrote:

 


Some thing about George 
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/man- hopes-prove-earth-flat- 213624305.html 

Don't do it George !!!! George come back !!
On Jan 22, 2018 6:41 PM, "Gerry [email protected] [EVGRAY]" <[email protected]> wrote:

     

Hi Doug,That shielded wire idea can be used with many different types of transformers and different situations to get some extra delay.It's not without some losses too..... it's just another tool for our arsenal.
To answer what you asked about BITT transformer.
"What I was trying to get at about the BiTT and the backemf forces, is just what is it that creates that "split" of the backemf force from the forward-current magnetic force, and for that backemf force to run along those extra transformer legs leading back to the opposite secondary, and not route itself back to primary???"
I just try to think of the input flux and the output fluxes separately.Sure they both absolutely have to share a common flux path at the output coils..
But we should keep the cause of the fluxes separate in our own mind.
If the load draws no output current then there is no "Back EMF or Lenz flux" generated.. there is only input flux created by input ac Voltage source .
If our BITT or other transformer has a  load connected then there will be an additional large Lenz flux flux generated by the load current itself.

Flux will always take the easiest path just like current does.If there is a common pathway and two fluxes are travelling in opposite directions along that flux path, they effectively subtract from each other even though each one is still present.(Whilst the electrostatic field at right angles to the flux field will add to each other).
If we think of the flux pathway as a single horizontal resistor hooked between positive terminals of 2 batteries with common earth.Say 1 battery supplies 1.5 Amps Left to Right through the resistor and the other supplies 1.0 amp Right to Left through resistor then the total current is only the difference of 0.5 amps Left to Right through the resistor.
This is called "superposition theorem" and applies equally to flux paths. We consider each separately then algebraically add them up.
Now say we could temporarily reverse the direction of current from one of the batteries the current would be cumulative and no longer subtractive, so we'd get 2.5 amps rather than 0.5 amps.(sort of what we're doing by timing how long the flux takes to reurn) 
We could call one battery the "input flux" generator and the other battery the "Lenz flux" generator, their causes are separate but their combination is cumulative in a magnetic circuit.
In magnetics our horizontal "resistance" is called "reluctance" to the flow of flux. 
Like with resistors if we put 2 reluctances or reluctance paths in parallel.....  the input flux lines will divide between the  2 paths.The one with the lowest reluctance (or highest permeabitity) will receive the highest flux and the other path the lowest.
Just like resistors we can use current divider formula to work out how much.... 
say flux path A and flux path B in parallel magnetic circuit.. 
Path A flux = total flux  x  Path B / (Path A + B)    
So getting back to the "flux split" in your thoughts above, the total flux in the output coil cores will be due to the load current being drawn and the input flux.

The input flux is independently set by input current and ampere turns of input coil.  The load flux or Lenz flux is dependent on the load current and at any load value this input/output flux split will be a set ratio.
The Lenz flux almost always opposes the input flux which created it....so it subtracts from the input flux, this makes the input coil core path look less inductive, so it draws more current & requires an increase in drive current to get back to original flux value.
However in the BITT the input flux is divided into two halves one clockwise the other counter clockwise. In the side by side toroids.This also splits the output Lenz fluxes A and B into two opposite phases, one  rotating clockwise the other counterclockwise, so the output signals are 180 degrees out of phase from each output coil..
Now by providing a low reluctance flux pathway from one output coil core A to the other core B, a large proportion of the Lenz flux is routed to the opposite (and out of phase) coil.This Lenz flux from A side is now out 180 degrees phase with the Lenz field on B side so the Lenz fields tend to subtract and cancel each other out.  
180 degrees out of phase.... equates to opposite directions just as in our battery subtractive currents example.Because the low reluctance pathway between A & B is so low, a smaller percentage ratio of the output Lenz flux finds its way back to the higher reluctance input circuit.

Gerry



On Tue, Jan 23, 2018 at 4:55 AM, [email protected] [EVGRAY] <[email protected]> wrote:

 


Hi Gerry'

Thanks for the advice and ideas again - I agree with the AC swing analogy...when I was in Germany the engineer there (HD) described just the same thing in AC in his MEG and timing things just right in analogy with swing...

I understand your idea with my ORBOI motor maybe the shielding of the steel to the rotor magnets will be better more efficient rather than copper torroid surround a ferrite core and then the primary inside  of the copper wire would be creating power each pulse too - I can imagine coils sticking out from stators 15cm long with that thick copper wire jammed up the middle....




What I was trying to get at about the BiTT and the backemf forces, is just what is it that creates that "split" of the backemf force from the forward-current magnetic force, and for that backemf force to run along those extra transformer legs leading back to the opposite secondary, and not route itself back to primary??? 

There being thicker core material is "giving it" the path to follow, but what is is that make the backemf go that way?   

This is the only way to make a BiTT really work scuh as X3 OU  in my measly opinion, and that is for the backemf (and backemf only) to take that route and add power to opposite secondary......if it does not, it is just a fairly efficient transformer design....So my idea of how it works and why it works is that there is a bucking-collision of forward and the inherent back emf  and the bucking collision causes the intitial split, and once split, the backemf goes over to the opposite secondary......so what causes this split?? My idea is it an inherent thing such as Leedskalin saying there is always in magnetism a forward and an opposite magnetic force, and perhaps the primary's magnetic force is what creates the smashing event to the secondary, and this secondary and primary must share the exact same time flow  in first place, but when the primary brick wall oif magnetism gets in the way, there is the bucking event....if there is time delay, perhaps now there will not be a bucking event because either the primary or the secondary will not have the exact same collision force and one will dominate (whichever is stronger) and the backemf flux will not be "dislodged" from the forward magnetic force rather they will continue together locked tight and just go back to primary causing the extra draw there...

ciaoKone







   




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Hi Doug,
That shielded wire idea can be used with many different types of
transformers and different situations to get some extra delay.
It's not without some losses too..... it's just another tool for our
arsenal.

To answer what you asked about BITT transformer.

"What I was trying to get at about the BiTT and the backemf forces, is
just what is it that creates that "split" of the backemf force from the
forward-current magnetic force, and for that backemf force to run along
those extra transformer legs leading back to the opposite secondary, and
not route itself back to primary???"

I just try to think of the input flux and the output fluxes separately.
Sure they both absolutely have to share a common flux path at the output
coils.

But we should keep the cause of the fluxes separate in our own mind.

If the load draws no output current then there is no "Back EMF or Lenz
flux" generated.. there is only input flux created by input ac Voltage
source .

If our BITT or other transformer has a  load connected then there will be
an additional large Lenz flux flux generated by the load current itself.


Flux will always take the easiest path just like current does.
If there is a common pathway and two fluxes are travelling in opposite
directions along that flux path, they effectively subtract from each other
even though each one is still present.
(Whilst the electrostatic field at right angles to the flux field will add
to each other).

If we think of the flux pathway as a single horizontal resistor hooked
between positive terminals of 2 batteries with common earth.
Say 1 battery supplies 1.5 Amps Left to Right through the resistor and the
other supplies 1.0 amp Right to Left through resistor then the total
current is only the difference of 0.5 amps Left to Right through the
resistor.

This is called "superposition theorem" and applies equally to flux paths.
We consider each separately then algebraically add them up.

Now say we could temporarily reverse the direction of current from one of
the batteries the current would be cumulative and no longer subtractive, so
we'd get 2.5 amps rather than 0.5 amps.
(sort of what we're doing by timing how long the flux takes to reurn)

We could call one battery the "input flux" generator and the other battery
the "Lenz flux" generator, their causes are separate but their combination
is cumulative in a magnetic circuit.

In magnetics our horizontal "resistance" is called "reluctance" to the flow
of flux.

Like with resistors if we put 2 reluctances or reluctance paths in
parallel.....  the input flux lines will divide between the  2 paths.
The one with the lowest reluctance (or highest permeabitity) will
receive the highest flux and the other path the lowest.

Just like resistors we can use current divider formula to work out how
much....

say flux path A and flux path B in parallel magnetic circuit.

Path A flux = total flux  x  Path B / (Path A + B)

So getting back to the "flux split" in your thoughts above, the total flux
in the output coil cores will be due to the load current being drawn and
the input flux.

The input flux is independently set by input current and ampere turns of
input coil.
The load flux or Lenz flux is dependent on the load current and at any load
value this input/output flux split will be a set ratio.

The Lenz flux almost always opposes the input flux which created it....so
it subtracts from the input flux, this makes the input coil core path look
less inductive, so it draws more current & requires an increase in drive
current to get back to original flux value.

However in the BITT the input flux is divided into two halves one clockwise
the other counter clockwise. In the side by side toroids.
This also splits the output Lenz fluxes A and B into two opposite phases,
one  rotating clockwise the other counterclockwise, so the output signals
are 180 degrees out of phase from each output coil.

Now by providing a low reluctance flux pathway from one output coil core A
to the other core B, a large proportion of the Lenz flux is routed to the
opposite (and out of phase) coil.
This Lenz flux from A side is now out 180 degrees phase with the Lenz field
on B side so the Lenz fields tend to subtract and cancel each other out.

180 degrees out of phase.... equates to opposite directions just as in our
battery subtractive currents example.
Because the low reluctance pathway between A & B is so low, a smaller
percentage ratio of the output Lenz flux finds its way back to the higher
reluctance input circuit.


Gerry



On Tue, Jan 23, 2018 at 4:55 AM, [email protected] [EVGRAY] <
[email protected]> wrote:

>
>
> Hi Gerry'
>
> Thanks for the advice and ideas again - I agree with the AC swing
> analogy...when I was in Germany the engineer there (HD) described just the
> same thing in AC in his MEG and timing things just right in analogy with
> swing...
>
> I understand your idea with my ORBOI motor maybe the shielding of the
> steel to the rotor magnets will be better more efficient rather than copper
> torroid surround a ferrite core and then the primary inside  of the copper
> wire would be creating power each pulse too - I can imagine coils sticking
> out from stators 15cm long with that thick copper wire jammed up the
> middle....
>
>
> What I was trying to get at about the BiTT and the backemf forces, is
> just what is it that creates that "split" of the backemf force from the
> forward-current magnetic force, and for that backemf force to run along
> those extra transformer legs leading back to the opposite secondary, and
> not route itself back to primary???
>
> There being thicker core material is "giving it" the path to follow, but
> what is is that make the backemf go that way?
>
> This is the only way to make a BiTT really work scuh as X3 OU  in my
> measly opinion, and that is for the backemf (and backemf only) to take that
> route and add power to opposite secondary......if it does not, it is just a
> fairly efficient transformer design....So my idea of how it works and why
> it works is that there is a bucking-collision of forward and the inherent
> back emf  and the bucking collision causes the intitial split, and once
> split, the backemf goes over to the opposite secondary....so what causes
> this split?? My idea is it an inherent thing such as Leedskalin saying
> there is always in magnetism a forward and an opposite magnetic force, and
> perhaps the primary's magnetic force is what creates the smashing event to
> the secondary, and this secondary and primary must share the exact same
> time flow  in first place, but when the primary brick wall oif magnetism
> gets in the way, there is the bucking event....if there is time delay,
> perhaps now there will not be a bucking event because either the primary or
> the secondary will not have the exact same collision force and one will
> dominate (whichever is stronger) and the backemf flux will not be
> "dislodged" from the forward magnetic force rather they will continue
> together locked tight and just go back to primary causing the extra draw
> there...
>
> ciaoKone
>
>
> 
>

yes its a correct simile!!!

you can keep the dong safe ! 

(H)

 
 

---In [email protected], <konehead@...> wrote :

 Hi hector
 I will bet my dong a magnetic diode is something that blocks magnetic flux to flow through a core material in one direction, but allows it to flow the other direction...for example in the Beardan MEG he sticks a magnet in or on the core-leg, permitting AC flux in this transformer leg to go one way {through the magnet) that the magnet's polarity allows, but not the other way....
 As for diac in magneto amplification, I know what a magneto is, and to amplify the power or voltage in a magneto, you can stick a magnet of the correct polarity onto the back-end of the magneto's core  and this creates a stronger flux in the core, and you get more power or voltages, but the magnet needs to face the right way in polarity for this to work - similar to getting more speed and power from a DC pulsed motor by putting magnets back behind the cores of the motor coils (but again must face correct polarity or motor slows)....AKA "regauging magnets" which is similar but does more than just strengthen the flux in the core.....will not get into regauging now...
 So am I right? Let me know eh!
 As for the BiTT it is not the Beardan MEG (farts and dies under load!) and it is not the other stuff that might employ some sort of 
magnetic diode/external horseshoe cores/magneto transistors (where cores work like transistor switch in how magnetic flux flows and switches on or off ???)...
 Instead the BiTT is very simple and just gives a lower-magnetic resistance PATHWAY to magnetic backemf  and it happily flows over to the opposite side secondary (instead of back to the primary)
 So the secondaries become ADDITIVE to power produced, not "BLOCKING" or "BUCKING" magnetic flux flow that reflects back to primary and gives extra draw to primary when secondaries load.
 IF tryibng to do this with a 3ph transfiormer, it wont work unless you add a horeshoe or similar shape core leg to top and bottom of core, and this added core shapes should be much thicker than the 3ph transformer's existing cores, otherwise the flux will not want to ride the easy road back to the opposite side secondary....maybe this is what you are saying I don't know...
 ciao
 Kojne

Until they don't come with definite prof of the elephants sex and turtle sex they got nothing ! 

niburu may be a male trying to hump the female earth turtle then flat earth gets squashed along with the elephants ! 

or maybe is 2 male gay turtles ? who knows ! we need to drop beyond the edge and find out ?? maybe the earth is held by 4 trani elephants and the turtle is bi-sexual ? 

anyway we will be literally " fucked " ..... by the issue ! 

(H) 



 

---In [email protected], <jglinski01@...> wrote :

 Some thing about George 
 https://uk.news.yahoo.com/man-hopes-prove-earth-flat-213624305.html https://uk.news.yahoo.com/man-hopes-prove-earth-flat-213624305.html
 Don't do it George !!!! George come back !!
 On Jan 22, 2018 6:41 PM, "Gerry smokyatgroups@... mailto:smokyatgroups@... [EVGRAY]" <[email protected] mailto:[email protected]> wrote:
   
 Hi Doug, That shielded wire idea can be used with many different types of transformers and different situations to get some extra delay.
 It's not without some losses too..... it's just another tool for our arsenal.
 
 To answer what you asked about BITT transformer.

 

 "What I was trying to get at about the BiTT and the backemf forces, is just what is it that creates that "split" of the backemf force from the forward-current magnetic force, and for that backemf force to run along those extra transformer legs leading back to the opposite secondary, and not route itself back to primary???"
 

 I just try to think of the input flux and the output fluxes separately.
 Sure they both absolutely have to share a common flux path at the output coils.
 

 But we should keep the cause of the fluxes separate in our own mind.
 

 If the load draws no output current then there is no "Back EMF or Lenz flux" generated.. there is only input flux created by input ac Voltage source .
 

 If our BITT or other transformer has a  load connected then there will be an additional large Lenz flux flux generated by the load current itself.
 

 

 Flux will always take the easiest path just like current does.
 If there is a common pathway and two fluxes are travelling in opposite directions along that flux path, they effectively subtract from each other even though each one is still present.
 (Whilst the electrostatic field at right angles to the flux field will add to each other).
 

 If we think of the flux pathway as a single horizontal resistor hooked between positive terminals of 2 batteries with common earth.
 Say 1 battery supplies 1.5 Amps Left to Right through the resistor and the other supplies 1.0 amp Right to Left through resistor then the total current is only the difference of 0.5 amps Left to Right through the resistor.
 

 This is called "superposition theorem" and applies equally to flux paths. We consider each separately then algebraically add them up.
 

 Now say we could temporarily reverse the direction of current from one of the batteries the current would be cumulative and no longer subtractive, so we'd get 2.5 amps rather than 0.5 amps.
 (sort of what we're doing by timing how long the flux takes to reurn) 
 

 We could call one battery the "input flux" generator and the other battery the "Lenz flux" generator, their causes are separate but their combination is cumulative in a magnetic circuit.
 

 In magnetics our horizontal "resistance" is called "reluctance" to the flow of flux. 
 

 Like with resistors if we put 2 reluctances or reluctance paths in parallel.....  the input flux lines will divide between the  2 paths.
 The one with the lowest reluctance (or highest permeabitity) will receive the highest flux and the other path the lowest.
 

 Just like resistors we can use current divider formula to work out how much.... 
 

 say flux path A and flux path B in parallel magnetic circuit. 
 

 Path A flux = total flux  x  Path B / (Path A + B)    
 

 So getting back to the "flux split" in your thoughts above, the total flux in the output coil cores will be due to the load current being drawn and the input flux.

 

 The input flux is independently set by input current and ampere turns of input coil.  
 The load flux or Lenz flux is dependent on the load current and at any load value this input/output flux split will be a set ratio.
 

 The Lenz flux almost always opposes the input flux which created it....so it subtracts from the input flux, this makes the input coil core path look less inductive, so it draws more current & requires an increase in drive current to get back to original flux value.
 

 However in the BITT the input flux is divided into two halves one clockwise the other counter clockwise. In the side by side toroids.
 This also splits the output Lenz fluxes A and B into two opposite phases, one  rotating clockwise the other counterclockwise, so the output signals are 180 degrees out of phase from each output coil.
 

 Now by providing a low reluctance flux pathway from one output coil core A to the other core B, a large proportion of the Lenz flux is routed to the opposite (and out of phase) coil.
 This Lenz flux from A side is now out 180 degrees phase with the Lenz field on B side so the Lenz fields tend to subtract and cancel each other out.  
 

 180 degrees out of phase.... equates to opposite directions just as in our battery subtractive currents example.
 Because the low reluctance pathway between A & B is so low, a smaller percentage ratio of the output Lenz flux finds its way back to the higher reluctance input circuit.
 

 

 Gerry

 

 


 
 On Tue, Jan 23, 2018 at 4:55 AM, konehead@... mailto:konehead@... [EVGRAY] <[email protected] mailto:[email protected]> wrote:
 

 Hi Gerry'
 Thanks for the advice and ideas again - I agree with the AC swing analogy...when I was in Germany the engineer there (HD) described just the same thing in AC in his MEG and timing things just right in analogy with swing...
 I understand your idea with my ORBOI motor maybe the shielding of the steel to the rotor magnets will be better more efficient rather than copper torroid surround a ferrite core and then the primary inside  of the copper wire would be creating power each pulse too - I can imagine coils sticking out from stators 15cm long with that thick copper wire jammed up the middle....
 

 What I was trying to get at about the BiTT and the backemf forces, is just what is it that creates that "split" of the backemf force from the forward-current magnetic force, and for that backemf force to run along those extra transformer legs leading back to the opposite secondary, and not route itself back to primary???
 There being thicker core material is "giving it" the path to follow, but what is is that make the backemf go that way?  
 This is the only way to make a BiTT really work scuh as X3 OU  in my measly opinion, and that is for the backemf (and backemf only) to take that route and add power to opposite secondary......if it does not, it is just a fairly efficient transformer design....So my idea of how it works and why it works is that there is a bucking-collision of forward and the inherent back emf  and the bucking collision causes the intitial split, and once split, the backemf goes over to the opposite secondary.....so what causes this split?? My idea is it an inherent thing such as Leedskalin saying there is always in magnetism a forward and an opposite magnetic force, and perhaps the primary's magnetic force is what creates the smashing event to the secondary, and this secondary and primary must share the exact same time flow  in first place, but when the primary brick wall oif magnetism gets in the way, there is the bucking event....if there is time delay, perhaps now there will not be a bucking event because either the primary or the secondary will not have the exact same collision force and one will dominate (whichever is stronger) and the backemf flux will not be "dislodged" from the forward magnetic force rather they will continue together locked tight and just go back to primary causing the extra draw there...
 ciaoKone

The diode plug is tailored to capture RE - (radio frequency ) in semy resonant state transferring it to a capacitor as voltage - farad joule potential, its discharge not being reflective to source ,,,, in fact it splits the half sine waves into POSITIVE & NEGATIVE  potentials that can be summed into single dc one .

reactive plug  is  a one way pulse discharge gate limited by its Henry value 
also relatively NON reflecting unless its reverse & forward discharged  one into the other creating a neutral spike  ( Read Norman papers & postings )  

one circuit adds to the other & relate to other circuits for a complete assembled puzzle schematic , the importance is understanding how each parts works so by using primitive available not very precise values parts & making them into a more accurate tune-able energy transformation circuit . 

as entering the aspects of the intricate but simple concepts is not theoretically possible without the lab experience due to the low precision
of the available parts & items ,,, tuning is the essential part ..
part selection is also important  as 2 identical value capacitors may not work the same  as an side end welded PF correction capacitor and a strip welded end film capacitor , in dc their values may be the same but in PULSE & AC modes they behave totally different , making a machine fail user & constructor not having a hint of why ? ... differences in impedance & capacitance values make the Q factor enter into play relative to CORE saturation , that in a NORMAL ferroresonant transformer  the shunt gets hyper saturated fast , not so in a 3 phase transformer with the larger b phase core shunt null that can be energized with DC to converted into a MEMA magnet-less electro-magnetic amplifier  .... 

(H)

Hi Doug,
Sorry I probably not understanding your question properly.

The part about ...quote: There being thicker core material is "giving it"
the path to follow, but what is is that make the backemf go that way?
The "Back emf" is flux itself it doesnt become emf till it strikes an
inductive coil.

Flux density (phi) x Magnetic reluctance (Rm) = Magnemotive Force (mmf)
is just like saying
Current in Amps x Resistance in Ohms = Voltage ...from Ohms law, they are
closely equivalent & analogous.

Magnetic flux will not flow from one point to another unless there is a
magnetic path and a difference in magnemotive force between the two points.
Just like in a resistor there HAS to be a voltage difference across a
resistor for any current to flow through it ...no matter what the resistors
value.

This fact is used in Wheatstone and Kelvin bridge circuits to 'balance' the
bridge.

Same with magnetic circuits.... if we hook a big magnetic shunt bar between
North to North and South to South of two identical strength magnets.
No flux will flow through the magnetic shunt bars unless there is enough
mmf difference in the strength of the two magnets for it to happen.

With the magnetic outputs being 180 degrees out of phase in the BITT , a
large difference in mmf exists between each output point on the output core.
Only because they are out of phase and thus a large Lenz flux passes
through them when loads are applied to output coils.

I hope this better I'm not real good at explaining stuff,
Gerry



On Tue, Jan 23, 2018 at 12:59 PM, James Glinski [email protected]
[EVGRAY] <[email protected]> wrote:

>
>
> Some thing about George
> https://uk.news.yahoo.com/man-hopes-prove-earth-flat-213624305.html
>
> Don't do it George !!!! George come back !!
> On Jan 22, 2018 6:41 PM, "Gerry [email protected] [EVGRAY]" <
> [email protected]> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Hi Doug,
>> That shielded wire idea can be used with many different types of
>> transformers and different situations to get some extra delay.
>> It's not without some losses too..... it's just another tool for our
>> arsenal.
>>
>> To answer what you asked about BITT transformer.
>>
>> "What I was trying to get at about the BiTT and the backemf forces, is
>> just what is it that creates that "split" of the backemf force from the
>> forward-current magnetic force, and for that backemf force to run along
>> those extra transformer legs leading back to the opposite secondary, and
>> not route itself back to primary???"
>>
>> I just try to think of the input flux and the output fluxes separately.
>> Sure they both absolutely have to share a common flux path at the output
>> coils..
>>
>> But we should keep the cause of the fluxes separate in our own mind.
>>
>> If the load draws no output current then there is no "Back EMF or Lenz
>> flux" generated.. there is only input flux created by input ac Voltage
>> source .
>>
>> If our BITT or other transformer has a  load connected then there will be
>> an additional large Lenz flux flux generated by the load current itself.
>>
>>
>> Flux will always take the easiest path just like current does.
>> If there is a common pathway and two fluxes are travelling in opposite
>> directions along that flux path, they effectively subtract from each other
>> even though each one is still present.
>> (Whilst the electrostatic field at right angles to the flux field will
>> add to each other).
>>
>> If we think of the flux pathway as a single horizontal resistor hooked
>> between positive terminals of 2 batteries with common earth.
>> Say 1 battery supplies 1.5 Amps Left to Right through the resistor and
>> the other supplies 1.0 amp Right to Left through resistor then the total
>> current is only the difference of 0.5 amps Left to Right through the
>> resistor.
>>
>> This is called "superposition theorem" and applies equally to flux paths.
>> We consider each separately then algebraically add them up.
>>
>> Now say we could temporarily reverse the direction of current from one of
>> the batteries the current would be cumulative and no longer subtractive, so
>> we'd get 2.5 amps rather than 0.5 amps.
>> (sort of what we're doing by timing how long the flux takes to reurn)
>>
>> We could call one battery the "input flux" generator and the other
>> battery the "Lenz flux" generator, their causes are separate but their
>> combination is cumulative in a magnetic circuit.
>>
>> In magnetics our horizontal "resistance" is called "reluctance" to the
>> flow of flux.
>>
>> Like with resistors if we put 2 reluctances or reluctance paths in
>> parallel.....  the input flux lines will divide between the  2 paths.
>> The one with the lowest reluctance (or highest permeabitity) will
>> receive the highest flux and the other path the lowest.
>>
>> Just like resistors we can use current divider formula to work out how
>> much....
>>
>> say flux path A and flux path B in parallel magnetic circuit.
>>
>> Path A flux = total flux  x  Path B / (Path A + B)
>>
>> So getting back to the "flux split" in your thoughts above, the total
>> flux in the output coil cores will be due to the load current being drawn
>> and the input flux.
>>
>> The input flux is independently set by input current and ampere turns of
>> input coil.
>> The load flux or Lenz flux is dependent on the load current and at any
>> load value this input/output flux split will be a set ratio.
>>
>> The Lenz flux almost always opposes the input flux which created it....so
>> it subtracts from the input flux, this makes the input coil core path look
>> less inductive, so it draws more current & requires an increase in drive
>> current to get back to original flux value.
>>
>> However in the BITT the input flux is divided into two halves one
>> clockwise the other counter clockwise. In the side by side toroids.
>> This also splits the output Lenz fluxes A and B into two opposite phases,
>> one  rotating clockwise the other counterclockwise, so the output signals
>> are 180 degrees out of phase from each output coil.
>>
>> Now by providing a low reluctance flux pathway from one output coil core
>> A to the other core B, a large proportion of the Lenz flux is routed to the
>> opposite (and out of phase) coil.
>> This Lenz flux from A side is now out 180 degrees phase with the Lenz
>> field on B side so the Lenz fields tend to subtract and cancel each other
>> out.
>>
>> 180 degrees out of phase.... equates to opposite directions just as in
>> our battery subtractive currents example.
>> Because the low reluctance pathway between A & B is so low, a smaller
>> percentage ratio of the output Lenz flux finds its way back to the higher
>> reluctance input circuit.
>>
>>
>> Gerry
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 23, 2018 at 4:55 AM, [email protected] [EVGRAY] <
>> [email protected] <[email protected]>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Gerry'
>>>
>>> Thanks for the advice and ideas again - I agree with the AC swing
>>> analogy...when I was in Germany the engineer there (HD) described just the
>>> same thing in AC in his MEG and timing things just right in analogy with
>>> swing...
>>>
>>> I understand your idea with my ORBOI motor maybe the shielding of the
>>> steel to the rotor magnets will be better more efficient rather than copper
>>> torroid surround a ferrite core and then the primary inside  of the copper
>>> wire would be creating power each pulse too - I can imagine coils sticking
>>> out from stators 15cm long with that thick copper wire jammed up the
>>> middle....
>>>
>>>
>>> What I was trying to get at about the BiTT and the backemf forces, is
>>> just what is it that creates that "split" of the backemf force from the
>>> forward-current magnetic force, and for that backemf force to run along
>>> those extra transformer legs leading back to the opposite secondary, and
>>> not route itself back to primary???
>>>
>>> There being thicker core material is "giving it" the path to follow, but
>>> what is is that make the backemf go that way?
>>>
>>> This is the only way to make a BiTT really work scuh as X3 OU  in my
>>> measly opinion, and that is for the backemf (and backemf only) to take that
>>> route and add power to opposite secondary......if it does not, it is just a
>>> fairly efficient transformer design....So my idea of how it works and why
>>> it works is that there is a bucking-collision of forward and the inherent
>>> back emf  and the bucking collision causes the intitial split, and once
>>> split, the backemf goes over to the opposite secondary......so what causes
>>> this split?? My idea is it an inherent thing such as Leedskalin saying
>>> there is always in magnetism a forward and an opposite magnetic force, and
>>> perhaps the primary's magnetic force is what creates the smashing event to
>>> the secondary, and this secondary and primary must share the exact same
>>> time flow  in first place, but when the primary brick wall oif magnetism
>>> gets in the way, there is the bucking event....if there is time delay,
>>> perhaps now there will not be a bucking event because either the primary or
>>> the secondary will not have the exact same collision force and one will
>>> dominate (whichever is stronger) and the backemf flux will not be
>>> "dislodged" from the forward magnetic force rather they will continue
>>> together locked tight and just go back to primary causing the extra draw
>>> there...
>>>
>>> ciaoKone
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
> 
>

Empty body

Doug and allDoes anyone remember the Flynne motor it was a few years back, and was all about the alternative path for the magnetic flux to take.Cheers Warren

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
 
  On Tue, Jan 23, 2018 at 6:59 PM, Gerry [email protected] [EVGRAY]<[email protected]> wrote:       

Hi Doug, Warren  guys,After making many of these BITT things, For me in practice, the normal Back emf or Lenz effect, where input impedance drops with loading the output... is still very much alive and well in this device.
As you rightly say Doug..... the magnetic paths don't know the difference between the Lenz flux or input Flux.The only aspect of this is that those additional flux paths between the output cores ........ (which Thane Heinz originally thought of adding).They bypass the input core altogether taking flux directly between the output cores. 
We should be able to see if this additional path between output coils affects the input, by monitoring the input volts & amps, whilst opening the two halves of the output toroid.
Breaking the extra path.... I'll give it a go & let you know.
Warren, I don't exactly know the answer to your question, I think Ole might know.Flux lines don't like to go around sharp corners and if flux lines path length is doubled then the force they exert is reduced to 25% of original value.Maybe that's why?
But there's other stuff which seems to defy the rules like in case of original MEG. Instead of the flux in central leg of core dividing equally between each side as I would think ......the flux flips entirely  from one side to the other on applying impulse.It is Bi Stable like a bistable flip flop circuit.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=no50_5iSr2Y

Gerry




On Tue, Jan 23, 2018 at 4:16 PM, [email protected] [EVGRAY] <[email protected]> wrote:

 


Hi Gerry

OK thanks for the explanations - with the BiTT, I saw both with Naudin, and also with KK that they did experiments driving them with DC....so unless this is really DC alternating into center-tapped primary (which KK did in his 4W to 8W video)  then I would think there is not the 180 degrees out of phase thing happening, (although now the collapsing field energy going backwards......which has me thinking maybe what we are looking for is combination "coherence" of the 180degree timing of opposite polarity AND the collapsing field! ...just thinking)




If 180 degrees out of phase then now I can see how there will be that pathway backwards for the "lenz" as you call it, the "backemf" as I call it....




But again WHY would there be a split in the lenz/backemf from the forward current? Why would it not just stay firmly attached to the forward current as it inherently by nature is?

Maybe there is no split and this is my ridiculous idea! I 




don't know but if there is not, and it is the 180 degrees out of phase event, then it would seem only the pos sine and neg sine would split, (and go its own way back to opposite secondary) not the lenz/backemf itself....




Maybe because the lenz/backemf IS already backwards,  (or is trying to) it dominates the return path leg and sort of consumes any forward currents on its way back? Maybe this is what happens




Sorry just rambling on

ciao

Kone





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Hi Warren, Garry,

The work done to remove the magnetic poles apart from each other should in theory be the same (energy preservation). If some parametric change happens this may not actually be the case. When sliding the magnetic poles apart the distance is longer but with a weaker force. When pulling the poles apart the force is greater but the distance is less than when sliding the poles apart. The work done is the force integrated over the distance moved. In theory this work is the same in a conservative force field. Howard Jonson managed to make his self-runner but at the cost of demagnetizing the magnets. When pulling apart the magnets the magnetic field falls of very fast with distance (something between the square to the cube of the distance). When sliding apart the magnets the field falls of in a more linear to square way. A finite element magnetic field solving program could perhaps calculate the energy.

A lever or a pulley or a gear is another way of pulling away something with a lot less force even though the work done is the same. The distance is increased as the force is decreased.

Motors and generators have the rotor slide along the field of the stator. There are some experimenters using pistons moving into and out of the magnetic field to change the air gap length and thus the reluctance of the magnetic circuit.

Regards
Ole
 

---In [email protected], <schoonersolsticemoon@...> wrote :

 Gerry Help me with a magnetic issue, a little sideways from the topic, two magnets attached NS can not be pulled apart very easily except with extreme force, yet pulled 90 degrees to the line of attraction, other than obvious friction, get easier quite rapidly, leaving that zone of attraction.
 This quirk, is the trick the Kromery exploits, I believe, along with mechanical inertia.
 I am not sure how this phenomena is put mathematically, or who's rule it fall under.
 Cheers Warren
 
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