Re: [EVGRAY] Triple thick BiTT

Body

Hi Doug,
Sorry I probably not understanding your question properly.

The part about ...quote: There being thicker core material is "giving it"
the path to follow, but what is is that make the backemf go that way?
The "Back emf" is flux itself it doesnt become emf till it strikes an
inductive coil.

Flux density (phi) x Magnetic reluctance (Rm) = Magnemotive Force (mmf)
is just like saying
Current in Amps x Resistance in Ohms = Voltage ...from Ohms law, they are
closely equivalent & analogous.

Magnetic flux will not flow from one point to another unless there is a
magnetic path and a difference in magnemotive force between the two points.
Just like in a resistor there HAS to be a voltage difference across a
resistor for any current to flow through it ...no matter what the resistors
value.

This fact is used in Wheatstone and Kelvin bridge circuits to 'balance' the
bridge.

Same with magnetic circuits.... if we hook a big magnetic shunt bar between
North to North and South to South of two identical strength magnets.
No flux will flow through the magnetic shunt bars unless there is enough
mmf difference in the strength of the two magnets for it to happen.

With the magnetic outputs being 180 degrees out of phase in the BITT , a
large difference in mmf exists between each output point on the output core.
Only because they are out of phase and thus a large Lenz flux passes
through them when loads are applied to output coils.

I hope this better I'm not real good at explaining stuff,
Gerry



On Tue, Jan 23, 2018 at 12:59 PM, James Glinski [email protected]
[EVGRAY] <[email protected]> wrote:

>
>
> Some thing about George
> https://uk.news.yahoo.com/man-hopes-prove-earth-flat-213624305.html
>
> Don't do it George !!!! George come back !!
> On Jan 22, 2018 6:41 PM, "Gerry [email protected] [EVGRAY]" <
> [email protected]> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Hi Doug,
>> That shielded wire idea can be used with many different types of
>> transformers and different situations to get some extra delay.
>> It's not without some losses too..... it's just another tool for our
>> arsenal.
>>
>> To answer what you asked about BITT transformer.
>>
>> "What I was trying to get at about the BiTT and the backemf forces, is
>> just what is it that creates that "split" of the backemf force from the
>> forward-current magnetic force, and for that backemf force to run along
>> those extra transformer legs leading back to the opposite secondary, and
>> not route itself back to primary???"
>>
>> I just try to think of the input flux and the output fluxes separately.
>> Sure they both absolutely have to share a common flux path at the output
>> coils..
>>
>> But we should keep the cause of the fluxes separate in our own mind.
>>
>> If the load draws no output current then there is no "Back EMF or Lenz
>> flux" generated.. there is only input flux created by input ac Voltage
>> source .
>>
>> If our BITT or other transformer has a  load connected then there will be
>> an additional large Lenz flux flux generated by the load current itself.
>>
>>
>> Flux will always take the easiest path just like current does.
>> If there is a common pathway and two fluxes are travelling in opposite
>> directions along that flux path, they effectively subtract from each other
>> even though each one is still present.
>> (Whilst the electrostatic field at right angles to the flux field will
>> add to each other).
>>
>> If we think of the flux pathway as a single horizontal resistor hooked
>> between positive terminals of 2 batteries with common earth.
>> Say 1 battery supplies 1.5 Amps Left to Right through the resistor and
>> the other supplies 1.0 amp Right to Left through resistor then the total
>> current is only the difference of 0.5 amps Left to Right through the
>> resistor.
>>
>> This is called "superposition theorem" and applies equally to flux paths.
>> We consider each separately then algebraically add them up.
>>
>> Now say we could temporarily reverse the direction of current from one of
>> the batteries the current would be cumulative and no longer subtractive, so
>> we'd get 2.5 amps rather than 0.5 amps.
>> (sort of what we're doing by timing how long the flux takes to reurn)
>>
>> We could call one battery the "input flux" generator and the other
>> battery the "Lenz flux" generator, their causes are separate but their
>> combination is cumulative in a magnetic circuit.
>>
>> In magnetics our horizontal "resistance" is called "reluctance" to the
>> flow of flux.
>>
>> Like with resistors if we put 2 reluctances or reluctance paths in
>> parallel.....  the input flux lines will divide between the  2 paths.
>> The one with the lowest reluctance (or highest permeabitity) will
>> receive the highest flux and the other path the lowest.
>>
>> Just like resistors we can use current divider formula to work out how
>> much....
>>
>> say flux path A and flux path B in parallel magnetic circuit.
>>
>> Path A flux = total flux  x  Path B / (Path A + B)
>>
>> So getting back to the "flux split" in your thoughts above, the total
>> flux in the output coil cores will be due to the load current being drawn
>> and the input flux.
>>
>> The input flux is independently set by input current and ampere turns of
>> input coil.
>> The load flux or Lenz flux is dependent on the load current and at any
>> load value this input/output flux split will be a set ratio.
>>
>> The Lenz flux almost always opposes the input flux which created it....so
>> it subtracts from the input flux, this makes the input coil core path look
>> less inductive, so it draws more current & requires an increase in drive
>> current to get back to original flux value.
>>
>> However in the BITT the input flux is divided into two halves one
>> clockwise the other counter clockwise. In the side by side toroids.
>> This also splits the output Lenz fluxes A and B into two opposite phases,
>> one  rotating clockwise the other counterclockwise, so the output signals
>> are 180 degrees out of phase from each output coil.
>>
>> Now by providing a low reluctance flux pathway from one output coil core
>> A to the other core B, a large proportion of the Lenz flux is routed to the
>> opposite (and out of phase) coil.
>> This Lenz flux from A side is now out 180 degrees phase with the Lenz
>> field on B side so the Lenz fields tend to subtract and cancel each other
>> out.
>>
>> 180 degrees out of phase.... equates to opposite directions just as in
>> our battery subtractive currents example.
>> Because the low reluctance pathway between A & B is so low, a smaller
>> percentage ratio of the output Lenz flux finds its way back to the higher
>> reluctance input circuit.
>>
>>
>> Gerry
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 23, 2018 at 4:55 AM, [email protected] [EVGRAY] <
>> [email protected] <[email protected]>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Gerry'
>>>
>>> Thanks for the advice and ideas again - I agree with the AC swing
>>> analogy...when I was in Germany the engineer there (HD) described just the
>>> same thing in AC in his MEG and timing things just right in analogy with
>>> swing...
>>>
>>> I understand your idea with my ORBOI motor maybe the shielding of the
>>> steel to the rotor magnets will be better more efficient rather than copper
>>> torroid surround a ferrite core and then the primary inside  of the copper
>>> wire would be creating power each pulse too - I can imagine coils sticking
>>> out from stators 15cm long with that thick copper wire jammed up the
>>> middle....
>>>
>>>
>>> What I was trying to get at about the BiTT and the backemf forces, is
>>> just what is it that creates that "split" of the backemf force from the
>>> forward-current magnetic force, and for that backemf force to run along
>>> those extra transformer legs leading back to the opposite secondary, and
>>> not route itself back to primary???
>>>
>>> There being thicker core material is "giving it" the path to follow, but
>>> what is is that make the backemf go that way?
>>>
>>> This is the only way to make a BiTT really work scuh as X3 OU  in my
>>> measly opinion, and that is for the backemf (and backemf only) to take that
>>> route and add power to opposite secondary......if it does not, it is just a
>>> fairly efficient transformer design....So my idea of how it works and why
>>> it works is that there is a bucking-collision of forward and the inherent
>>> back emf  and the bucking collision causes the intitial split, and once
>>> split, the backemf goes over to the opposite secondary......so what causes
>>> this split?? My idea is it an inherent thing such as Leedskalin saying
>>> there is always in magnetism a forward and an opposite magnetic force, and
>>> perhaps the primary's magnetic force is what creates the smashing event to
>>> the secondary, and this secondary and primary must share the exact same
>>> time flow  in first place, but when the primary brick wall oif magnetism
>>> gets in the way, there is the bucking event....if there is time delay,
>>> perhaps now there will not be a bucking event because either the primary or
>>> the secondary will not have the exact same collision force and one will
>>> dominate (whichever is stronger) and the backemf flux will not be
>>> "dislodged" from the forward magnetic force rather they will continue
>>> together locked tight and just go back to primary causing the extra draw
>>> there...
>>>
>>> ciaoKone
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
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