Re: [EVGRAY] Gary Porter looper ready to bideo lnk

Hi Norman, Mick,

"...a reverse current is being induced into the iron core coil with the reverse polarity."
The current continues in the same direction while the voltage or tension changes sign. The current can't be stopped or having its direction changed in a jump as it is always continuous. It would be like immediately stopping or changing the direction of a running flywheel. The force required or given off is like the voltage when speaking coils. The voltage or force will be of infinite size if the change happens in an instant. The current starts decreasing from whatever value it has at the disruption. Only how fast is related to the size of the induced voltage (u = L x di/dt) where u is the voltage, L is the inductance of the coil, i is the current and t is time. di/dt is the slope of the current.

Regards
Ole


---In [email protected], <nwootan@...> wrote :

 Mick, first envision a North-South magnetic poles embedded in flywheel. When the North-South magnets bridge the first two poles of the stator (rotation) a forward going current is induced into iron core coil and at same time charges up condenser to max. Important note here is that the impedance of coil is LC matched to the value of the condenser.   When the North-South magnets move over to the middle and last poles, breaker points open and at same time a reverse current is being induced into the iron core coil with the reverse polarity, the condenser discharges through coil windings to frame ground. With the condenser being charged via the forward going current, 1st step, when it discharges into coil a reverse current is being induced by moving magnets. In effect you have opposing currents, opposite polarity, (BUCKING-OPPOSED)  which cause a miniature magnetic flux annihilation event and a MAGNETO-ELECTRIC, micro EMP event. That is the reason the old magnetos had such a powerful spark even when you turned them by hand at super low RPM.    I worked on thousands of them on my magneto test bench.  Norm
 
 On 1/25/2019 9:20 AM, Mick mkjekyll@... mailto:mkjekyll@... [EVGRAY] wrote:
 
   
 Norm,
 So this is the same effect from the 3 pole magneto you showed us, when the cap discharges during the collapsing flyback pulse and compresses the delta?
 Were three poles used in parallel in order to make sure the iron was fully saturated even at low speed in the old magneto?
 
 On 1/25/2019 9:35 AM, Norman Wootan nwootan@... mailto:nwootan@... [EVGRAY] wrote:
 
   
 Your quote, feed it a reverse potential as voltage is maximal peaking and you have a mother of an EMP neutral spike on your hands !       Yeeeeeeaaaaah!  Hector my friend, you got it exactly right. In all my experience with old time magnetos, this is exactly how the conderser discharge through the primary windings happens with reverse polarity.  Bang, you get a sharp crack spark discharge in the bright blue wave lengths.  Not a measily  orange spark without any zip to it.  The 5HP compressor, EMP test I did works this way.
 
 On 1/25/2019 6:35 AM, arkresearch@... mailto:arkresearch@... [EVGRAY] wrote:
 
   If you short a coil current becomes maximal voltage stays lag at zero upon max core saturation , then at short cut off ,voltage becomes leading and maximal as current drop to zero ... basic RF neutral spike dynamics !
 
 feed it a reverse potential as voltage is maximal peaking and you have a mother of an EMP neutral spike on your hands !  
 
 (H)   other methods are applicable ,,, rotary is best for simplicity , 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 ---In [email protected] mailto:[email protected], <konehead@...> mailto:konehead@... wrote :
 
 Hi Mick
 "would require shorting to saturate the core from passing a magnet"
 Did you mean:
 "would require shorting to saturate the core from a passing magnet" ?
 I don't know something else?
 Also wouldn't a shorted coil become rf transmitter not so much an antenna?
 Anyways still confused but just half way confused now..
 Kone

Hi Mick,

"Why u instead of V? "
I usually use U (when DC) or u (when AC) for tension as V is used for the SI unit for tension (Volt). This avoids potential problems. Lower case u or v is actually U(t) or V(t) to be more correct as the formulas are functions of time like dU(t)/dt or dV(t)/dt. I.e. it's the derivative or slope of the time changing voltage like ΔU/Δt.

I have only heard of the flux capacitor from the Si-Fi movies "Back to the Future."

By using high frequency modulated plasma it's possible to generate DC magnetic fields of high strength: https://earthweb.ess.washington.edu/space/PlasmaMag/ https://earthweb.ess.washington.edu/space/PlasmaMag/

https://phys.org/news/2018-11-magnetic-fields-deep-space-wiggle.html https://phys.org/news/2018-11-magnetic-fields-deep-space-wiggle.html

Wikipedia on electric and magnetic flux:
https://wiki2.org/en/Electric_flux https://wiki2.org/en/Electric_flux
https://wiki2.org/en/Magnetic_flux https://wiki2.org/en/Magnetic_flux

Regards
Ole


---In [email protected], <mkjekyll@...> wrote :

 Hi Ole,
 Why u instead of V? 
 Yes the inductor is a current source and acts as a current flywheel, good metaphor.  
 
 Can you explain the fabled flux capacitor of Faraday and what may indeed be considered as such if one uses plasma states for instance?  
 
 On 1/25/2019 1:33 PM, onielsen@... mailto:onielsen@... [EVGRAY] wrote:
 
   Hi Norman, Mick,
 
 "...a reverse current is being induced into the iron core coil with the reverse polarity."
 The current continues in the same direction while the voltage or tension changes sign. The current can't be stopped or having its direction changed in a jump as it is always continuous. It would be like immediately stopping or changing the direction of a running flywheel. The force required or given off is like the voltage when speaking coils. The voltage or force will be of infinite size if the change happens in an instant. The current starts decreasing from whatever value it has at the disruption. Only how fast is related to the size of the induced voltage (u = L x di/dt) where u is the voltage, L is the inductance of the coil, i is the current and t is time. di/dt is the slope of the current.
 
 Regards
 Ole
 
 
 ---In [email protected] mailto:[email protected], <nwootan@...> mailto:nwootan@... wrote :
 
 
 Mick, first envision a North-South magnetic poles embedded in flywheel. When the North-South magnets bridge the first two poles of the stator (rotation) a forward going current is induced into iron core coil and at same time charges up condenser to max. Important note here is that the impedance of coil is LC matched to the value of the condenser.   When the North-South magnets move over to the middle and last poles, breaker points open and at same time a reverse current is being induced into the iron core coil with the reverse polarity, the condenser discharges through coil windings to frame ground. With the condenser being charged via the forward going current, 1st step, when it discharges into coil a reverse current is being induced by moving magnets. In effect you have opposing currents, opposite polarity, (BUCKING-OPPOSED)  which cause a miniature magnetic flux annihilation event and a MAGNETO-ELECTRIC, micro EMP event. That is the reason the old magnetos had such a powerful spark even when you turned them by hand at super low RPM.    I worked on thousands of them on my magneto test bench.  Norm
 
 On 1/25/2019 9:20 AM, Mick mkjekyll@... mailto:mkjekyll@... [EVGRAY] wrote:
 
   
 Norm,
 So this is the same effect from the 3 pole magneto you showed us, when the cap discharges during the collapsing flyback pulse and compresses the delta?
 Were three poles used in parallel in order to make sure the iron was fully saturated even at low speed in the old magneto?
 
 On 1/25/2019 9:35 AM, Norman Wootan nwootan@... mailto:nwootan@... [EVGRAY] wrote:
 
   
 Your quote, feed it a reverse potential as voltage is maximal peaking and you have a mother of an EMP neutral spike on your hands !       Yeeeeeeaaaaah!  Hector my friend, you got it exactly right. In all my experience with old time magnetos, this is exactly how the conderser discharge through the primary windings happens with reverse polarity.  Bang, you get a sharp crack spark discharge in the bright blue wave lengths.  Not a measily  orange spark without any zip to it.  The 5HP compressor, EMP test I did works this way.
 
 On 1/25/2019 6:35 AM, arkresearch@... mailto:arkresearch@... [EVGRAY] wrote:
 
   If you short a coil current becomes maximal voltage stays lag at zero upon max core saturation , then at short cut off ,voltage becomes leading and maximal as current drop to zero ... basic RF neutral spike dynamics !
 
 feed it a reverse potential as voltage is maximal peaking and you have a mother of an EMP neutral spike on your hands !  
 
 (H)   other methods are applicable ,,, rotary is best for simplicity , 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 ---In [email protected] mailto:[email protected], <konehead@...> mailto:konehead@... wrote :
 
 Hi Mick
 "would require shorting to saturate the core from passing a magnet"
 Did you mean:
 "would require shorting to saturate the core from a passing magnet" ?
 I don't know something else?
 Also wouldn't a shorted coil become rf transmitter not so much an antenna?
 Anyways still confused but just half way confused now..
 Kone

Hi Ole,

Why u instead of V?
Yes the inductor is a current source and acts as a current flywheel,
good metaphor. 

Can you explain the fabled flux capacitor of Faraday and what may indeed
be considered as such if one uses plasma states for instance? 

On 1/25/2019 1:33 PM, [email protected] [EVGRAY] wrote:
>  
>
> Hi Norman, Mick,
>
> "...a reverse current is being induced into the iron core coil with
> the reverse polarity."
> The current continues in the same direction while the voltage or
> tension changes sign. The current can't be stopped or having its
> direction changed in a jump as it is always continuous. It would be
> like immediately stopping or changing the direction of a running
> flywheel. The force required or given off is like the voltage when
> speaking coils. The voltage or force will be of infinite size if the
> change happens in an instant. The current starts decreasing from
> whatever value it has at the disruption. Only how fast is related to
> the size of the induced voltage (u = L x di/dt) where u is the
> voltage, L is the inductance of the coil, i is the current and t is
> time. di/dt is the slope of the current.
>
> Regards
> Ole
>
>
> ---In [email protected], <nwootan@...> wrote :
>
> Mick, first envision a North-South magnetic poles embedded in
> flywheel. When the North-South magnets bridge the first two poles of
> the stator (rotation) a forward going current is induced into iron
> core coil and at same time charges up condenser to max. Important note
> here is that the impedance of coil is LC matched to the value of the
> condenser.   When the North-South magnets move over to the middle and
> last poles, breaker points open and at same time a reverse current is
> being induced into the iron core coil with the reverse polarity, the
> condenser discharges through coil windings to frame ground. With the
> condenser being charged via the forward going current, 1st step, when
> it discharges into coil a reverse current is being induced by moving
> magnets. In effect you have opposing currents, opposite polarity,
> (BUCKING-OPPOSED)  which cause a miniature magnetic flux annihilation
> event and a MAGNETO-ELECTRIC, micro EMP event. That is the reason the
> old magnetos had such a powerful spark even when you turned them by
> hand at super low RPM.    I worked on thousands of them on my magneto
> test bench.  Norm
>
> On 1/25/2019 9:20 AM, Mick mkjekyll@... <mailto:mkjekyll@...> [EVGRAY]
> wrote:
>
>>      
>>
>>     Norm,
>>
>>     So this is the same effect from the 3 pole magneto you showed us,
>>     when the cap discharges during the collapsing flyback pulse and
>>     compresses the delta?
>>
>>     Were three poles used in parallel in order to make sure the iron
>>     was fully saturated even at low speed in the old magneto?
>>
>>     On 1/25/2019 9:35 AM, Norman Wootan nwootan@...
>>     <mailto:nwootan@...> [EVGRAY] wrote:
>>>      
>>>
>>>     Your quote, feed it a reverse potential as voltage is maximal
>>>     peaking and you have a mother of an EMP neutral spike on your
>>>     hands !       Yeeeeeeaaaaah!  Hector my friend, you got it
>>>     exactly right. In all my experience with old time magnetos, this
>>>     is exactly how the conderser discharge through the primary
>>>     windings happens with reverse polarity.  Bang, you get a sharp
>>>     crack spark discharge in the bright blue wave lengths.  Not a
>>>     measily  orange spark without any zip to it.  The 5HP
>>>     compressor, EMP test I did works this way.
>>>
>>>     On 1/25/2019 6:35 AM, arkresearch@... <mailto:arkresearch@...>
>>>     [EVGRAY] wrote:
>>>>      
>>>>
>>>>     If you short a coil current becomes maximal voltage stays lag
>>>>     at zero upon max core saturation , then at short cut off
>>>>     ,voltage becomes leading and maximal as current drop to zero
>>>>     ... basic RF neutral spike dynamics !
>>>>
>>>>     feed it a reverse potential as voltage is maximal peaking and
>>>>     you have a mother of an EMP neutral spike on your hands ! 
>>>>
>>>>     (H)   other methods are applicable ,,, rotary is best for
>>>>     simplicity ,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>     ---In [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>,
>>>>     <konehead@...> <mailto:konehead@...> wrote :
>>>>
>>>>     Hi Mick
>>>>     "would require shorting to saturate the core from passing a magnet"
>>>>     Did you mean:
>>>>     "would require shorting to saturate the core from a passing
>>>>     magnet" ?
>>>>     I don't know something else?
>>>>     Also wouldn't a shorted coil become rf transmitter not so much
>>>>     an antenna?
>>>>     Anyways still confused but just half way confused now..
>>>>     Kone
>
>

Sorry Ole, for I have to stick with Tesla on the ALTERNATING CURRENT.   
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternating_current

A two stroke outboard motor with magneto running at 3600 RPM has a 
commutation rate of 60 Hz same as the AC 60Hz line freq.   When I was a 
repair technician for 7 years with Outboard Marine Corp, I got to see a 
magneto instrumented in a lab with scope leads to enable viewing the  
voltage and current traces during the magneto cycle. During the 1st 
step, N-S PMs passing poles 1 and 2 of an E frame armature there was 
induced a forward current and a positive voltage of up to 450V with a 
current trace clearly showing the knee of the BH curve indicating the 
saturation of the iron at peak positive induced voltage/current. As Kone 
pointed out, this is a short circuited primary winding cause one end of 
winding is frame grounded and the other end of winding is grounded via 
the closed breaker points.    As you pointed out, current does not like 
to be stopped and electrons do have inertia so the condenser acts as a 
shock absorber to take the current surge at point opening and also 
prevent arcing in the breaker. the accumulated charge in the condenser 
at circuit opening is up to 450VDC positive.   When the breaker points 
opened there was a straight down, negative going high magnitude negative 
spike off scope scale. Remember that when the breaker points open the 
PMs are now inducing a reverse polarity voltage and current into poles 2 
and 3 of the E core.  I guess that Outboard Marine was correct in using 
the E frame coil stator for it produced an excellent and powerful 
ignition source.  Since then we have graduated to the Capacitive 
discharge type of ignition systems.

On 1/25/2019 12:33 PM, [email protected] [EVGRAY] wrote:
>
> Hi Norman, Mick,
>
> "...a reverse current is being induced into the iron core coil with 
> the reverse polarity."
> The current continues in the same direction while the voltage or 
> tension changes sign. The current can't be stopped or having its 
> direction changed in a jump as it is always continuous. It would be 
> like immediately stopping or changing the direction of a running 
> flywheel. The force required or given off is like the voltage when 
> speaking coils. The voltage or force will be of infinite size if the 
> change happens in an instant. The current starts decreasing from 
> whatever value it has at the disruption. Only how fast is related to 
> the size of the induced voltage (u = L x di/dt) where u is the 
> voltage, L is the inductance of the coil, i is the current and t is 
> time. di/dt is the slope of the current.
>
> Regards
> Ole
>
>
> ---In [email protected], <nwootan@...> wrote :
>
> Mick, first envision a North-South magnetic poles embedded in 
> flywheel. When the North-South magnets bridge the first two poles of 
> the stator (rotation) a forward going current is induced into iron 
> core coil and at same time charges up condenser to max. Important note 
> here is that the impedance of coil is LC matched to the value of the 
> condenser.   When the North-South magnets move over to the middle and 
> last poles, breaker points open and at same time a reverse current is 
> being induced into the iron core coil with the reverse polarity, the 
> condenser discharges through coil windings to frame ground. With the 
> condenser being charged via the forward going current, 1st step, when 
> it discharges into coil a reverse current is being induced by moving 
> magnets. In effect you have opposing currents, opposite polarity, 
> (BUCKING-OPPOSED)  which cause a miniature magnetic flux annihilation 
> event and a MAGNETO-ELECTRIC, micro EMP event. That is the reason the 
> old magnetos had such a powerful spark even when you turned them by 
> hand at super low RPM.    I worked on thousands of them on my magneto 
> test bench.  Norm
>
> On 1/25/2019 9:20 AM, Mick mkjekyll@... <mailto:mkjekyll@...> [EVGRAY] 
> wrote:
>
>>     Norm,
>>
>>     So this is the same effect from the 3 pole magneto you showed us,
>>     when the cap discharges during the collapsing flyback pulse and
>>     compresses the delta?
>>
>>     Were three poles used in parallel in order to make sure the iron
>>     was fully saturated even at low speed in the old magneto?
>>
>>     On 1/25/2019 9:35 AM, Norman Wootan nwootan@...
>>     <mailto:nwootan@...> [EVGRAY] wrote:
>>>
>>>     Your quote, feed it a reverse potential as voltage is maximal
>>>     peaking and you have a mother of an EMP neutral spike on your
>>>     hands !       Yeeeeeeaaaaah!  Hector my friend, you got it
>>>     exactly right. In all my experience with old time magnetos, this
>>>     is exactly how the conderser discharge through the primary
>>>     windings happens with reverse polarity.  Bang, you get a sharp
>>>     crack spark discharge in the bright blue wave lengths. Not a
>>>     measily  orange spark without any zip to it.  The 5HP
>>>     compressor, EMP test I did works this way.
>>>
>>>     On 1/25/2019 6:35 AM, arkresearch@... <mailto:arkresearch@...>
>>>     [EVGRAY] wrote:
>>>>
>>>>     If you short a coil current becomes maximal voltage stays lag
>>>>     at zero upon max core saturation , then at short cut off
>>>>     ,voltage becomes leading and maximal as current drop to zero
>>>>     ... basic RF neutral spike dynamics !
>>>>
>>>>     feed it a reverse potential as voltage is maximal peaking and
>>>>     you have a mother of an EMP neutral spike on your hands !
>>>>
>>>>     (H)   other methods are applicable ,,, rotary is best for
>>>>     simplicity ,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>     ---In [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>,
>>>>     <konehead@...> <mailto:konehead@...> wrote :
>>>>
>>>>     Hi Mick
>>>>     "would require shorting to saturate the core from passing a magnet"
>>>>     Did you mean:
>>>>     "would require shorting to saturate the core from a passing
>>>>     magnet" ?
>>>>     I don't know something else?
>>>>     Also wouldn't a shorted coil become rf transmitter not so much
>>>>     an antenna?
>>>>     Anyways still confused but just half way confused now..
>>>>     Kone
>
>

Hi Norman,

 For generating high voltage the flyback pulse formed by abruptly stopping the current is used. At input the voltage and current have the same sign meaning energy enters the coil which stores that energy as magnetic field energy. At output the power becomes negative meaning either the voltage or the current has to change sign. If both changes sign then power still enters the coil. Disrupting the current induces the flyback pulse where the voltage changes sign meaning the magnetic field strength is decreasing. The rate of decrease determines the voltage induced. If the energy isn't dissipated like when having capacitance in the circuit the current changes direction after the energy has been stored in the capacitor as electric field energy by charging the capacitor. Discharging the capacitor makes the current change sign while the voltage can't be discontinuous in a capacitor (no jumps allowed). The voltage in a capacitor is like the current in an inductor and the current in a capacitor is like the voltage in an inductor. One can be discontinuous while the other must be continuous by making no jumps. This is what makes them follow each other's tail doing oscillations when connected together and not having enough damping (resistance).

Regards
Ole



---In [email protected], <nwootan@...> wrote :

 Sorry Ole, for I have to stick with Tesla on the ALTERNATING CURRENT.   https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternating_current https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternating_current
 A two stroke outboard motor with magneto running at 3600 RPM has a commutation rate of 60 Hz same as the AC 60Hz line freq.   When I was a repair technician for 7 years with Outboard Marine Corp, I got to see a magneto instrumented in a lab with scope leads to enable viewing the  voltage and current traces during the magneto cycle. During the 1st step, N-S PMs passing poles 1 and 2 of an E frame armature there was induced a forward current and a positive voltage of up to 450V with a current trace clearly showing the knee of the BH curve indicating the saturation of the iron at peak positive induced voltage/current. As Kone pointed out, this is a short circuited primary winding cause one end of winding is frame grounded and the other end of winding is grounded via the closed breaker points.    As you pointed out, current does not like to be stopped and electrons do have inertia so the condenser acts as a shock absorber to take the current surge at point opening and also prevent arcing in the breaker. the accumulated charge in the condenser at circuit opening is up to 450VDC positive.   When the breaker points opened there was a straight down, negative going high magnitude negative spike off scope scale. Remember that when the breaker points open the PMs are now inducing a reverse polarity voltage and current into poles 2 and 3 of the E core.  I guess that Outboard Marine was correct in using the E frame coil stator for it produced an excellent and powerful ignition  source.  Since then we have graduated to the Capacitive discharge type of ignition systems.  
 
 
 On 1/25/2019 12:33 PM, onielsen@... mailto:onielsen@... [EVGRAY] wrote:
 
   Hi Norman, Mick,
 
 "...a reverse current is being induced into the iron core coil with the reverse polarity."
 The current continues in the same direction while the voltage or tension changes sign. The current can't be stopped or having its direction changed in a jump as it is always continuous. It would be like immediately stopping or changing the direction of a running flywheel. The force required or given off is like the voltage when speaking coils. The voltage or force will be of infinite size if the change happens in an instant. The current starts decreasing from whatever value it has at the disruption. Only how fast is related to the size of the induced voltage (u = L x di/dt) where u is the voltage, L is the inductance of the coil, i is the current and t is time. di/dt is the slope of the current.
 
 Regards
 Ole
 
 
 ---In [email protected] mailto:[email protected], <nwootan@...> mailto:nwootan@... wrote :
 
 
 Mick, first envision a North-South magnetic poles embedded in flywheel. When the North-South magnets bridge the first two poles of the stator (rotation) a forward going current is induced into iron core coil and at same time charges up condenser to max. Important note here is that the impedance of coil is LC matched to the value of the condenser.   When the North-South magnets move over to the middle and last poles, breaker points open and at same time a reverse current is being induced into the iron core coil with the reverse polarity, the condenser discharges through coil windings to frame ground. With the condenser being charged via the forward going current, 1st step, when it discharges into coil a reverse current is being induced by moving magnets. In effect you have opposing currents, opposite polarity, (BUCKING-OPPOSED)  which cause a miniature magnetic flux annihilation event and a MAGNETO-ELECTRIC, micro EMP event. That is the reason the old magnetos had such a powerful spark even when you turned them by hand at super low RPM.    I worked on thousands of them on my magneto test bench.  Norm
 
 On 1/25/2019 9:20 AM, Mick mkjekyll@... mailto:mkjekyll@... [EVGRAY] wrote:
 
   
 Norm,
 So this is the same effect from the 3 pole magneto you showed us, when the cap discharges during the collapsing flyback pulse and compresses the delta?
 Were three poles used in parallel in order to make sure the iron was fully saturated even at low speed in the old magneto?
 
 On 1/25/2019 9:35 AM, Norman Wootan nwootan@... mailto:nwootan@... [EVGRAY] wrote:
 
   
 Your quote, feed it a reverse potential as voltage is maximal peaking and you have a mother of an EMP neutral spike on your hands !       Yeeeeeeaaaaah!  Hector my friend, you got it exactly right. In all my experience with old time magnetos, this is exactly how the conderser discharge through the primary windings happens with reverse polarity.  Bang, you get a sharp crack spark discharge in the bright blue wave lengths.  Not a measily  orange spark without any zip to it.  The 5HP compressor, EMP test I did works this way.
 
 On 1/25/2019 6:35 AM, arkresearch@... mailto:arkresearch@... [EVGRAY] wrote:
 
   If you short a coil current becomes maximal voltage stays lag at zero upon max core saturation , then at short cut off ,voltage becomes leading and maximal as current drop to zero ... basic RF neutral spike dynamics !
 
 feed it a reverse potential as voltage is maximal peaking and you have a mother of an EMP neutral spike on your hands !  
 
 (H)   other methods are applicable ,,, rotary is best for simplicity , 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 ---In [email protected] mailto:[email protected], <konehead@...> mailto:konehead@... wrote :
 
 Hi Mick
 "would require shorting to saturate the core from passing a magnet"
 Did you mean:
 "would require shorting to saturate the core from a passing magnet" ?
 I don't know something else?
 Also wouldn't a shorted coil become rf transmitter not so much an antenna?
 Anyways still confused but just half way confused now..
 Kone

Warren, their main HQ is in Wisconsin but they may have had a plant in 
Canada. Peterborough, Ontario 
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peterborough,_Ontario> - Johnson/Evinrude 
Outboards (Closed in 1990)   Made Ryan lawnmowers. 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outboard_Marine_Corporation    Oh, Warren, 
Bert Pool sent you this.

Tool definitions

SKILL SAW: A portable cutting tool used to make boards too short.

BELT SANDER: An electric sanding tool commonly used to convert minor 
touch-up jobs into major refinishing jobs.

WIRE WHEEL: Cleans paint off bolts and then throws them somewhere under 
the workbench with the speed of light. Also removes fingerprints and 
hard-earned calluses from fingers in about the time  takes you to say, 
-----------. Will easily wind a tee shirt off your back.

DRILL PRESS: A tall upright machine useful for suddenly snatching flat 
metal bar stock out of your hands so that it smacks you in the chest and 
flings your beer across the room, denting the freshly-painted project 
which you had carefully set in the corner where nothing could get to it.

Channel Locks: Used to round off bolt heads. Sometimes used in the 
creation of blood-blisters.

HACKSAW: One of a family of cutting tools built on the Ouija board 
principle. It transforms human energy into a crooked, unpredictable 
motion, and the more you attempt to influence its course, the more 
dismal your future becomes.

VISE-GRIPS: Generally used after pliers to completely round off bolt 
heads. If nothing else is available, they can also be used to transfer 
intense welding heat to the palm of your hand. (Also, commonly called 
"Channel Changers" on TV's of the 1950's with knobs that were stripped 
out or lost when you were fighting with one of your siblings.)

OXYGEN/ACETYLENE TORCH: Used almost entirely for igniting various 
flammable objects in your shop and creating a fire. Also handy for 
igniting the grease inside the wheel hub out of which you want to remove 
a bearing race.

TABLE SAW: A large stationary power tool commonly used to launch wood 
projectiles for testing wall integrity. Very effective for digit removal!!

HYDRAULIC FLOOR JACK: Used for lowering an automobile to the ground 
after you have installed your new brake shoes, trapping the jack handle 
firmly under the bumper.

BAND SAW: A large stationary power saw primarily used by most shops to 
cut large pieces into smaller pieces that more easily fit into the trash 
after you cut on the inside of the line instead of the outside edge. 
Also excels at amputations.

TWO-TON ENGINE HOIST: A tool for testing the maximum tensile strength of 
all the crap you forgot to disconnect.

PHILLIPS SCREWDRIVER: Normally used to stab the vacuum seals under lids 
or for opening old-style paper-and-tin oil cans and splashing oil on 
your shirt; but can also be used, as the name implies, to strip out 
Phillips screw heads. (The Phillips screw was brought to market by Henry 
F. Phillips of Portland, Oregon and first used on the1936 Cadillac. Now 
you know who to blame for those stripped out heads. Yes, Phillips Lake 
near Baker, Oregon is also named for Henry Philllips.)

STRAIGHT SCREWDRIVER: A tool for opening paint cans. Sometimes used to 
convert common slotted screws into non-removable screws and butchering 
your palms.

PRY BAR: A tool used to crumple the metal surrounding that clip or 
bracket you needed to remove in order to replace a 50 cent part.

PVC PIPE CUTTER: A tool used to make plastic pipe too short.

HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is 
used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts 
adjacent to the object you are trying to hit. Also very effective at 
fingernail removal.

UTILITY KNIFE: Used to open and slice through the contents of cardboard 
cartons delivered to your front door. Works particularly well on 
contents such as seats, vinyl records, liquids in plastic bottles, 
collector magazines, refund checks, and rubber or plastic parts. 
Especially useful for slicing work clothes, but only while in use. These 
can also be used to initiate a trip to the emergency room so a doctor 
can sew up the damage.

SON OF A BITCH TOOL: Any handy tool that you grab and throw across the 
garage while yelling 'Son of a bitch' at the top of your lungs. It is 
also, most often, the next tool that you will need.

DAMMIT CLIP: For us old timers, a clip used on carburetor linkage that 
was easy to remove but almost impossible to put back on. When it went 
flying to who knows where, the mechanic would say: "Dammit, where did 
that clip go". We learned a lot about baling wire from that experience. 
Usually found months or years later by pure accident...
On 1/26/2019 6:55 AM, Warren Keillor [email protected] 
[EVGRAY] wrote:
>
> Norman
>
> Didn't Outboard Marine have a plant in Peterborough, Ontario?
> They made good products.
> Cheap 2 stroke lawn mower engines that wouldn't die, for instance.
> Cheers Warren
> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
> <https://go.onelink.me/107872968?pid=InProduct&c=Global_Internal_YGrowth_AndroidEmailSig__AndroidUsers&af_wl=ym&af_sub1=Internal&af_sub2=Global_YGrowth&af_sub3=EmailSignature>
>
>     On Sat, 26 Jan 2019 at 6:35 AM, Norman Wootan [email protected] [EVGRAY]
>     <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>     Sorry Ole, for I have to stick with Tesla on the ALTERNATING
>     CURRENT. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternating_current
>
>     A two stroke outboard motor with magneto running at 3600 RPM has a
>     commutation rate of 60 Hz same as the AC 60Hz line freq. When I
>     was a repair technician for 7 years with Outboard Marine Corp, I
>     got to see a magneto instrumented in a lab with scope leads to
>     enable viewing the  voltage and current traces during the magneto
>     cycle. During the 1st step, N-S PMs passing poles 1 and 2 of an E
>     frame armature there was induced a forward current and a positive
>     voltage of up to 450V with a current trace clearly showing the
>     knee of the BH curve indicating the saturation of the iron at peak
>     positive induced voltage/current. As Kone pointed out, this is a
>     short circuited primary winding cause one end of winding is frame
>     grounded and the other end of winding is grounded via the closed
>     breaker points.    As you pointed out, current does not like to be
>     stopped and electrons do have inertia so the condenser acts as a
>     shock absorber to take the current surge at point opening and also
>     prevent arcing in the breaker. the accumulated charge in the
>     condenser at circuit opening is up to 450VDC positive.   When the
>     breaker points opened there was a straight down, negative going
>     high magnitude negative spike off scope scale. Remember that when
>     the breaker points open the PMs are now inducing a reverse
>     polarity voltage and current into poles 2 and 3 of the E core.  I
>     guess that Outboard Marine was correct in using the E frame coil
>     stator for it produced an excellent and powerful ignition  source.
>     Since then we have graduated to the Capacitive discharge type of
>     ignition systems.
>
>     alt
>
>     On 1/25/2019 12:33 PM, [email protected]
>     <mailto:[email protected]> [EVGRAY] wrote:
>>
>>     Hi Norman, Mick,
>>
>>     "...a reverse current is being induced into the iron core coil
>>     with the reverse polarity."
>>     The current continues in the same direction while the voltage or
>>     tension changes sign. The current can't be stopped or having its
>>     direction changed in a jump as it is always continuous. It would
>>     be like immediately stopping or changing the direction of a
>>     running flywheel. The force required or given off is like the
>>     voltage when speaking coils. The voltage or force will be of
>>     infinite size if the change happens in an instant. The current
>>     starts decreasing from whatever value it has at the disruption.
>>     Only how fast is related to the size of the induced voltage (u =
>>     L x di/dt) where u is the voltage, L is the inductance of the
>>     coil, i is the current and t is time. di/dt is the slope of the
>>     current.
>>
>>     Regards
>>     Ole
>>
>>
>>     ---In [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>,
>>     <nwootan@...> <mailto:nwootan@...> wrote :
>>
>>     Mick, first envision a North-South magnetic poles embedded in
>>     flywheel. When the North-South magnets bridge the first two poles
>>     of the stator (rotation) a forward going current is induced into
>>     iron core coil and at same time charges up condenser to max.
>>     Important note here is that the impedance of coil is LC matched
>>     to the value of the condenser.   When the North-South magnets
>>     move over to the middle and last poles, breaker points open and
>>     at same time a reverse current is being induced into the iron
>>     core coil with the reverse polarity, the condenser discharges
>>     through coil windings to frame ground. With the condenser being
>>     charged via the forward going current, 1st step, when it
>>     discharges into coil a reverse current is being induced by moving
>>     magnets. In effect you have opposing currents, opposite polarity,
>>     (BUCKING-OPPOSED)  which cause a miniature magnetic flux
>>     annihilation event and a MAGNETO-ELECTRIC, micro EMP event. That
>>     is the reason the old magnetos had such a powerful spark even
>>     when you turned them by hand at super low RPM.    I worked on
>>     thousands of them on my magneto test bench.  Norm
>>
>>     On 1/25/2019 9:20 AM, Mick mkjekyll@... <mailto:mkjekyll@...>
>>     [EVGRAY] wrote:
>>
>>>         Norm,
>>>
>>>         So this is the same effect from the 3 pole magneto you
>>>         showed us, when the cap discharges during the collapsing
>>>         flyback pulse and compresses the delta?
>>>
>>>         Were three poles used in parallel in order to make sure the
>>>         iron was fully saturated even at low speed in the old magneto?
>>>
>>>         On 1/25/2019 9:35 AM, Norman Wootan nwootan@...
>>>         <mailto:nwootan@...> [EVGRAY] wrote:
>>>>
>>>>         Your quote, feed it a reverse potential as voltage is
>>>>         maximal peaking and you have a mother of an EMP neutral
>>>>         spike on your hands !       Yeeeeeeaaaaah! Hector my
>>>>         friend, you got it exactly right. In all my experience with
>>>>         old time magnetos, this is exactly how the conderser
>>>>         discharge through the primary windings happens with reverse
>>>>         polarity.  Bang, you get a sharp crack spark discharge in
>>>>         the bright blue wave lengths.  Not a measily orange spark
>>>>         without any zip to it.  The 5HP compressor, EMP test I did
>>>>         works this way.
>>>>
>>>>         On 1/25/2019 6:35 AM, arkresearch@...
>>>>         <mailto:arkresearch@...> [EVGRAY] wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>         If you short a coil current becomes maximal voltage stays
>>>>>         lag at zero upon max core saturation , then at short cut
>>>>>         off ,voltage becomes leading and maximal as current drop
>>>>>         to zero ... basic RF neutral spike dynamics !
>>>>>
>>>>>         feed it a reverse potential as voltage is maximal peaking
>>>>>         and you have a mother of an EMP neutral spike on your hands !
>>>>>
>>>>>         (H)   other methods are applicable ,,, rotary is best for
>>>>>         simplicity ,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>         ---In [email protected]
>>>>>         <mailto:[email protected]>, <konehead@...>
>>>>>         <mailto:konehead@...> wrote :
>>>>>
>>>>>         Hi Mick
>>>>>         "would require shorting to saturate the core from passing
>>>>>         a magnet"
>>>>>         Did you mean:
>>>>>         "would require shorting to saturate the core from a
>>>>>         passing magnet" ?
>>>>>         I don't know something else?
>>>>>         Also wouldn't a shorted coil become rf transmitter not so
>>>>>         much an antenna?
>>>>>         Anyways still confused but just half way confused now..
>>>>>         Kone
>>
>

Yep ! i told Ash to never run RV wile naked  ClinnnGgg !  Riiiippppp!  snap! Thund!  flap! flap! Flap!  flip! flap! flap! 

You end "Transgendered" from zero to seven seconds flat!     ! 

(H) 

---In [email protected], <okbart@...> wrote :

 Warren,
 
 
 Yes clearly known as only the wise and advanced group!  lol
 While in grade 7 the wood shop teacher was showing us how to use the wood lathe.
 He turned it on and reached to knock off some loose debris. 
 
 The wind from the turning lathe caught his tie , pulled it until the tie ripped.
 His tie was very tight. He made some pretty colors until he could cut it off.
 If we laughed we were to be sent home!!!  lol
 
 
 
    Warren , Bridgewater   brings me back to my childhood in memories.
 I am from an area around the bottom and across the Bay. Just  up the road a step.
 Alma is a sea going fishing village.  Up the road my father ran a make shift scrap/wrecking yard , about 150 -200 cars/trucks
 
 cycling kind of thing.  When I was about 7-10 years of age he would have me strip some thing out for the carburetor ,starter,gen,alternator
 and hang it with bailer twine . Then say that's for  Norms  Tornado up the road on blocks !  lol
 
 
 
 Bart
 
 From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of Norman Wootan nwootan@... [EVGRAY] <[email protected]>
 Sent: January 26, 2019 10:27 AM
 To: [email protected]
 Subject: Re: [EVGRAY] Re: Gary Porter looper ready to bideo lnk [1 At  
 
   
 Warren, their main HQ is in Wisconsin but they may have had a plant in Canada.  Peterborough, Ontario - Johnson/Evinrude Outboards (Closed in 1990)   Made Ryan lawnmowers.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outboard_Marine_Corporation    Oh, Warren, Bert Pool sent you this.  
 
 Tool definitions
 SKILL SAW: A portable cutting tool used to make boards too short.
  
 BELT SANDER: An electric sanding tool commonly used to convert minor touch-up jobs into major refinishing jobs.
  
 WIRE WHEEL: Cleans paint off bolts and then throws them somewhere under the workbench with the speed of light. Also removes fingerprints and hard-earned calluses from fingers in about the time  takes you to say, -----------. Will easily wind a tee shirt off your back.
  
 DRILL PRESS: A tall upright machine useful for suddenly snatching flat metal bar stock out of your hands so that it smacks you in the chest and flings your beer across the room, denting the freshly-painted project which you had carefully set in the corner where nothing could get to it.
  
 Channel Locks: Used to round off bolt heads. Sometimes used in the creation of blood-blisters.
  
 HACKSAW: One of a family of cutting tools built on the Ouija board principle. It transforms human energy into a crooked, unpredictable motion, and the more you attempt to influence its course, the more dismal your future becomes.
  
 VISE-GRIPS: Generally used after pliers to completely round off bolt heads. If nothing else is available, they can also be used to transfer intense welding heat to the palm of your hand. (Also, commonly called "Channel Changers" on TV's of the 1950's with knobs that were stripped out or lost when you were fighting with one of your siblings.)
  
 OXYGEN/ACETYLENE TORCH: Used almost entirely for igniting various flammable objects in your shop and creating a fire. Also handy for igniting the grease inside the wheel hub out of which you want to remove a bearing race.
  
 TABLE SAW: A large stationary power tool commonly used to launch wood projectiles for testing wall integrity. Very effective for digit removal!!
  
 HYDRAULIC FLOOR JACK: Used for lowering an automobile to the ground after you have installed your new brake shoes, trapping the jack handle firmly under the bumper.
  
 BAND SAW: A large stationary power saw primarily used by most shops to cut large pieces into smaller pieces that more easily fit into the trash after you cut on the inside of the line instead of the outside edge. Also excels at amputations.
  
 TWO-TON ENGINE HOIST: A tool for testing the maximum tensile strength of all the crap you forgot to disconnect.
  
 PHILLIPS SCREWDRIVER: Normally used to stab the vacuum seals under lids or for opening old-style paper-and-tin oil cans and splashing oil on your shirt; but can also be used, as the name implies, to strip out Phillips screw heads. (The Phillips screw was brought to market by Henry F. Phillips of Portland, Oregon and first used on the1936 Cadillac. Now you know who to blame for those stripped out heads. Yes, Phillips Lake near Baker, Oregon is also named for Henry Philllips.)
  
 STRAIGHT SCREWDRIVER: A tool for opening paint cans. Sometimes used to convert common slotted screws into non-removable screws and butchering your palms.
  
 PRY BAR: A tool used to crumple the metal surrounding that clip or bracket you needed to remove in order to replace a 50 cent part.
  
 PVC PIPE CUTTER: A tool used to make plastic pipe too short.
  
 HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent to the object you are trying to hit. Also very effective at fingernail removal.
  
 UTILITY KNIFE: Used to open and slice through the contents of cardboard cartons delivered to your front door. Works particularly well on contents such as seats, vinyl records, liquids in plastic bottles, collector magazines, refund checks, and rubber or plastic parts. Especially useful for slicing work clothes, but only while in use. These can also be used to initiate a trip to the emergency room so a doctor can sew up the damage.
  
 SON OF A BITCH TOOL: Any handy tool that you grab and throw across the garage while yelling 'Son of a bitch' at the top of your lungs. It is also, most often, the next tool that you will need.
  
 DAMMIT CLIP: For us old timers, a clip used on carburetor linkage that was easy to remove but almost impossible to put back on. When it went flying to who knows where, the mechanic would say: "Dammit, where did that clip go". We learned a lot about baling wire from that experience. Usually found months or years later by pure accident...
 On 1/26/2019 6:55 AM, Warren Keillor schoonersolsticemoon@... [EVGRAY] wrote:
 
   Norman
 Didn't Outboard Marine have a plant in Peterborough, Ontario?
 They made good products.
 Cheap 2 stroke lawn mower engines that wouldn't die, for instance.
 Cheers Warren
 Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
 
 On Sat, 26 Jan 2019 at 6:35 AM, Norman Wootan nwootan@... [EVGRAY]
 <[email protected]> mailto:[email protected] wrote:
 
   
 Sorry Ole, for I have to stick with Tesla on the ALTERNATING CURRENT.   https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternating_current
 A two stroke outboard motor with magneto running at 3600 RPM has a commutation rate of 60 Hz same as the AC 60Hz line freq.   When I was a repair technician for 7 years with Outboard Marine Corp, I got to see a magneto instrumented in a lab with scope leads to enable viewing the  voltage and current traces during the magneto cycle. During the 1st step, N-S PMs passing poles 1 and 2 of an E frame armature there was induced a forward current and a positive voltage of up to 450V with a current trace clearly showing the knee of the BH curve indicating the saturation of the iron at peak positive induced voltage/current. As Kone pointed out, this is a short circuited primary winding cause one end of winding is frame grounded and the other end of winding is grounded via the closed breaker points.    As you pointed out, current does not like to be stopped and electrons do have inertia so the condenser acts as a shock absorber to take the current surge at point opening and also prevent arcing in the breaker. the accumulated charge in the condenser at circuit opening is up to 450VDC positive.   When the breaker points opened there was a straight down, negative going high magnitude negative spike off scope scale. Remember that when the breaker points open the PMs are now inducing a reverse polarity voltage and current into poles 2 and 3 of the E core.  I guess that Outboard Marine was correct in using the E frame coil stator for it produced an excellent and powerful ignition  source.  Since then we have graduated to the Capacitive discharge type of ignition systems.  
 
 
 On 1/25/2019 12:33 PM, onielsen@... [EVGRAY] wrote:
 
   Hi Norman, Mick,
 
 "...a reverse current is being induced into the iron core coil with the reverse polarity."
 The current continues in the same direction while the voltage or tension changes sign. The current can't be stopped or having its direction changed in a jump as it is always continuous. It would be like immediately stopping or changing the direction of a running flywheel. The force required or given off is like the voltage when speaking coils. The voltage or force will be of infinite size if the change happens in an instant. The current starts decreasing from whatever value it has at the disruption. Only how fast is related to the size of the induced voltage (u = L x di/dt) where u is the voltage, L is the inductance of the coil, i is the current and t is time. di/dt is the slope of the current.
 
 Regards
 Ole
 
 
 ---In [email protected], <nwootan@...> wrote :
 
 
 Mick, first envision a North-South magnetic poles embedded in flywheel. When the North-South magnets bridge the first two poles of the stator (rotation) a forward going current is induced into iron core coil and at same time charges up condenser to max. Important note here is that the impedance of coil is LC matched to the value of the condenser.   When the North-South magnets move over to the middle and last poles, breaker points open and at same time a reverse current is being induced into the iron core coil with the reverse polarity, the condenser discharges through coil windings to frame ground. With the condenser being charged via the forward going current, 1st step, when it discharges into coil a reverse current is being induced by moving magnets. In effect you have opposing currents, opposite polarity, (BUCKING-OPPOSED)  which cause a miniature magnetic flux annihilation event and a MAGNETO-ELECTRIC, micro EMP event. That is the reason the old magnetos had such a powerful spark even when you turned them by hand at super low RPM.    I worked on thousands of them on my magneto test bench.  Norm
 
 On 1/25/2019 9:20 AM, Mick mkjekyll@... [EVGRAY] wrote:
 
   
 Norm,
 So this is the same effect from the 3 pole magneto you showed us, when the cap discharges during the collapsing flyback pulse and compresses the delta?
 Were three poles used in parallel in order to make sure the iron was fully saturated even at low speed in the old magneto?
 
 On 1/25/2019 9:35 AM, Norman Wootan nwootan@... [EVGRAY] wrote:
 
   
 Your quote, feed it a reverse potential as voltage is maximal peaking and you have a mother of an EMP neutral spike on your hands !       Yeeeeeeaaaaah!  Hector my friend, you got it exactly right. In all my experience with old time magnetos, this is exactly how the conderser discharge through the primary windings happens with reverse polarity.  Bang, you get a sharp crack spark discharge in the bright blue wave lengths.  Not a measily  orange spark without any zip to it.  The 5HP compressor, EMP test I did works this way.
 
 On 1/25/2019 6:35 AM, arkresearch@... [EVGRAY] wrote:
 
   If you short a coil current becomes maximal voltage stays lag at zero upon max core saturation , then at short cut off ,voltage becomes leading and maximal as current drop to zero ... basic RF neutral spike dynamics !
 
 feed it a reverse potential as voltage is maximal peaking and you have a mother of an EMP neutral spike on your hands !  
 
 (H)   other methods are applicable ,,, rotary is best for simplicity , 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 ---In [email protected], <konehead@...> wrote :
 
 Hi Mick
 "would require shorting to saturate the core from passing a magnet"
 Did you mean:
 "would require shorting to saturate the core from a passing magnet" ?
 I don't know something else?
 Also wouldn't a shorted coil become rf transmitter not so much an antenna?
 Anyways still confused but just half way confused now..
 Kone

In RV triple flux capacitor was used to excite alternator ,rectified at WYE center to get DC 





 in multi phase WYE DC motor 
you have an 3x3 flux impedance (9 coils) within a common WYE center  .

can use 9 capacitors 18 diode bridge  to play ...use 40 phases make that 40 caps
80 diode bridge to dc conversion adding the 40 coil shorting gates to the coils  . 


(H)



---In [email protected], <mkjekyll@...> wrote :

 Hi Ole,
 Why u instead of V? 
 Yes the inductor is a current source and acts as a current flywheel, good metaphor.  
 
 Can you explain the fabled flux capacitor of Faraday and what may indeed be considered as such if one uses plasma states for instance?  
 
 On 1/25/2019 1:33 PM, onielsen@... mailto:onielsen@... [EVGRAY] wrote:
 
   Hi Norman, Mick,
 
 "...a reverse current is being induced into the iron core coil with the reverse polarity."
 The current continues in the same direction while the voltage or tension changes sign. The current can't be stopped or having its direction changed in a jump as it is always continuous. It would be like immediately stopping or changing the direction of a running flywheel. The force required or given off is like the voltage when speaking coils. The voltage or force will be of infinite size if the change happens in an instant. The current starts decreasing from whatever value it has at the disruption. Only how fast is related to the size of the induced voltage (u = L x di/dt) where u is the voltage, L is the inductance of the coil, i is the current and t is time. di/dt is the slope of the current.
 
 Regards
 Ole
 
 
 ---In [email protected] mailto:[email protected], <nwootan@...> mailto:nwootan@... wrote :
 
 
 Mick, first envision a North-South magnetic poles embedded in flywheel. When the North-South magnets bridge the first two poles of the stator (rotation) a forward going current is induced into iron core coil and at same time charges up condenser to max. Important note here is that the impedance of coil is LC matched to the value of the condenser.   When the North-South magnets move over to the middle and last poles, breaker points open and at same time a reverse current is being induced into the iron core coil with the reverse polarity, the condenser discharges through coil windings to frame ground. With the condenser being charged via the forward going current, 1st step, when it discharges into coil a reverse current is being induced by moving magnets. In effect you have opposing currents, opposite polarity, (BUCKING-OPPOSED)  which cause a miniature magnetic flux annihilation event and a MAGNETO-ELECTRIC, micro EMP event. That is the reason the old magnetos had such a powerful spark even when you turned them by hand at super low RPM.    I worked on thousands of them on my magneto test bench.  Norm
 
 On 1/25/2019 9:20 AM, Mick mkjekyll@... mailto:mkjekyll@... [EVGRAY] wrote:
 
   
 Norm,
 So this is the same effect from the 3 pole magneto you showed us, when the cap discharges during the collapsing flyback pulse and compresses the delta?
 Were three poles used in parallel in order to make sure the iron was fully saturated even at low speed in the old magneto?
 
 On 1/25/2019 9:35 AM, Norman Wootan nwootan@... mailto:nwootan@... [EVGRAY] wrote:
 
   
 Your quote, feed it a reverse potential as voltage is maximal peaking and you have a mother of an EMP neutral spike on your hands !       Yeeeeeeaaaaah!  Hector my friend, you got it exactly right. In all my experience with old time magnetos, this is exactly how the conderser discharge through the primary windings happens with reverse polarity.  Bang, you get a sharp crack spark discharge in the bright blue wave lengths.  Not a measily  orange spark without any zip to it.  The 5HP compressor, EMP test I did works this way.
 
 On 1/25/2019 6:35 AM, arkresearch@... mailto:arkresearch@... [EVGRAY] wrote:
 
   If you short a coil current becomes maximal voltage stays lag at zero upon max core saturation , then at short cut off ,voltage becomes leading and maximal as current drop to zero ... basic RF neutral spike dynamics !
 
 feed it a reverse potential as voltage is maximal peaking and you have a mother of an EMP neutral spike on your hands !  
 
 (H)   other methods are applicable ,,, rotary is best for simplicity , 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 ---In [email protected] mailto:[email protected], <konehead@...> mailto:konehead@... wrote :
 
 Hi Mick
 "would require shorting to saturate the core from passing a magnet"
 Did you mean:
 "would require shorting to saturate the core from a passing magnet" ?
 I don't know something else?
 Also wouldn't a shorted coil become rf transmitter not so much an antenna?
 Anyways still confused but just half way confused now..
 Kone

NormanDidn't Outboard Marine have a plant in Peterborough, Ontario?
They made good products.Cheap 2 stroke lawn mower engines that wouldn't die, for instance.Cheers Warren
Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
 
  On Sat, 26 Jan 2019 at 6:35 AM, Norman Wootan [email protected] [EVGRAY]<[email protected]> wrote:       
 

Sorry Ole, for I have to stick with Tesla on the ALTERNATING CURRENT.   https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternating_current
 
A two stroke outboard motor with magneto running at 3600 RPM has a commutation rate of 60 Hz same as the AC 60Hz line freq.   When I was a repair technician for 7 years with Outboard Marine Corp, I got to see a magneto instrumented in a lab with scope leads to enable viewing the  voltage and current traces during the magneto cycle. During the 1st step, N-S PMs passing poles 1 and 2 of an E frame armature there was induced a forward current and a positive voltage of up to 450V with a current trace clearly showing the knee of the BH curve indicating the saturation of the iron at peak positive induced voltage/current. As Kone pointed out, this is a short circuited primary winding cause one end of winding is frame grounded and the other end of winding is grounded via the closed breaker points.    As you pointed out, current does not like to be stopped and electrons do have inertia so the condenser acts as a shock absorber to take the current surge at point opening and also prevent arcing in the breaker. the accumulated charge in the condenser at circuit opening is up to 450VDC positive.   When the breaker points opened there was a straight down, negative going high magnitude negative spike off scope scale. Remember that when the breaker points open the PMs are now inducing a reverse polarity voltage and current into poles 2 and 3 of the E core.  I guess that Outboard Marine was correct in using the E frame coil stator for it produced an excellent and powerful ignition  source.  Since then we have graduated to the Capacitive discharge type of ignition systems.  
 
 

 On 1/25/2019 12:33 PM, [email protected] [EVGRAY] wrote:
  
    
Hi Norman, Mick,
 
 "...a reverse current is being induced into the iron core coil with the reverse polarity."
 The current continues in the same direction while the voltage or tension changes sign. The current can't be stopped or having its direction changed in a jump as it is always continuous. It would be like immediately stopping or changing the direction of a running flywheel. The force required or given off is like the voltage when speaking coils. The voltage or force will be of infinite size if the change happens in an instant. The current starts decreasing from whatever value it has at the disruption. Only how fast is related to the size of the induced voltage (u = L x di/dt) where u is the voltage, L is the inductance of the coil, i is the current and t is time. di/dt is the slope of the current.
 
 Regards
 Ole
 
 
 ---In [email protected], <nwootan@...> wrote :
 
 
  
Mick, first envision a North-South magnetic poles embedded in flywheel. When the North-South magnets bridge the first two poles of the stator (rotation) a forward going current is induced into iron core coil and at same time charges up condenser to max. Important note here is that the impedance of coil is LC matched to the value of the condenser.   When the North-South magnets move over to the middle and last poles, breaker points open and at same time a reverse current is being induced into the iron core coil with the reverse polarity, the condenser discharges through coil windings to frame ground. With the condenser being charged via the forward going current, 1st step, when it discharges into coil a reverse current is being induced by moving magnets. In effect you have opposing currents, opposite polarity, (BUCKING-OPPOSED)  which cause a miniature magnetic flux annihilation event and a MAGNETO-ELECTRIC, micro EMP event. That is the reason the old magnetos had such a powerful spark even when you turned them by hand at super low RPM.    I worked on thousands of them on my magneto test bench.  Norm
 
 On 1/25/2019 9:20 AM, Mick mkjekyll@... [EVGRAY] wrote:
  
 
    
 
 
Norm,
 
So this is the same effect from the 3 pole magneto you showed us, when the cap discharges during the collapsing flyback pulse and compresses the delta?
 
Were three poles used in parallel in order to make sure the iron was fully saturated even at low speed in the old magneto?
 
 On 1/25/2019 9:35 AM, Norman Wootan nwootan@... [EVGRAY] wrote:
  
    
 
 
Your quote, feed it a reverse potential as voltage is maximal peaking and you have a mother of an EMP neutral spike on your hands !       Yeeeeeeaaaaah!  Hector my friend, you got it exactly right. In all my experience with old time magnetos, this is exactly how the conderser discharge through the primary windings happens with reverse polarity.  Bang, you get a sharp crack spark discharge in the bright blue wave lengths.  Not a measily  orange spark without any zip to it.  The 5HP compressor, EMP test I did works this way.
 
 On 1/25/2019 6:35 AM, arkresearch@... [EVGRAY] wrote:
  
    
If you short a coil current becomes maximal voltage stays lag at zero upon max core saturation , then at short cut off ,voltage becomes leading and maximal as current drop to zero ... basic RF neutral spike dynamics !
 
 feed it a reverse potential as voltage is maximal peaking and you have a mother of an EMP neutral spike on your hands !  
 
 (H)   other methods are applicable ,,, rotary is best for simplicity , 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 ---In [email protected], <konehead@...> wrote :
 
 Hi Mick
 "would require shorting to saturate the core from passing a magnet"
 Did you mean:
 "would require shorting to saturate the core from a passing magnet" ?
 I don't know something else?
 Also wouldn't a shorted coil become rf transmitter not so much an antenna?
 Anyways still confused but just half way confused now..
 Kone   
  
  
 
   
  #yiv5706518752 #yiv5706518752 -- #yiv5706518752ygrp-mkp {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:10px 0;padding:0 10px;}#yiv5706518752 #yiv5706518752ygrp-mkp hr {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;}#yiv5706518752 #yiv5706518752ygrp-mkp #yiv5706518752hd {color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:700;line-height:122%;margin:10px 0;}#yiv5706518752 #yiv5706518752ygrp-mkp #yiv5706518752ads {margin-bottom:10px;}#yiv5706518752 #yiv5706518752ygrp-mkp .yiv5706518752ad {padding:0 0;}#yiv5706518752 #yiv5706518752ygrp-mkp .yiv5706518752ad p {margin:0;}#yiv5706518752 #yiv5706518752ygrp-mkp .yiv5706518752ad a {color:#0000ff;text-decoration:none;}#yiv5706518752 #yiv5706518752ygrp-sponsor #yiv5706518752ygrp-lc {font-family:Arial;}#yiv5706518752 #yiv5706518752ygrp-sponsor #yiv5706518752ygrp-lc #yiv5706518752hd {margin:10px 0px;font-weight:700;font-size:78%;line-height:122%;}#yiv5706518752 #yiv5706518752ygrp-sponsor #yiv5706518752ygrp-lc .yiv5706518752ad {margin-bottom:10px;padding:0 0;}#yiv5706518752 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blockquote {margin:0 0 0 4px;}#yiv5706518752 .yiv5706518752bold {font-family:Arial;font-size:13px;font-weight:700;}#yiv5706518752 .yiv5706518752bold a {text-decoration:none;}#yiv5706518752 dd.yiv5706518752last p a {font-family:Verdana;font-weight:700;}#yiv5706518752 dd.yiv5706518752last p span {margin-right:10px;font-family:Verdana;font-weight:700;}#yiv5706518752 dd.yiv5706518752last p span.yiv5706518752yshortcuts {margin-right:0;}#yiv5706518752 div.yiv5706518752attach-table div div a {text-decoration:none;}#yiv5706518752 div.yiv5706518752attach-table {width:400px;}#yiv5706518752 div.yiv5706518752file-title a, #yiv5706518752 div.yiv5706518752file-title a:active, #yiv5706518752 div.yiv5706518752file-title a:hover, #yiv5706518752 div.yiv5706518752file-title a:visited {text-decoration:none;}#yiv5706518752 div.yiv5706518752photo-title a, #yiv5706518752 div.yiv5706518752photo-title a:active, #yiv5706518752 div.yiv5706518752photo-title a:hover, #yiv5706518752 div.yiv5706518752photo-title a:visited {text-decoration:none;}#yiv5706518752 div#yiv5706518752ygrp-mlmsg #yiv5706518752ygrp-msg p a span.yiv5706518752yshortcuts {font-family:Verdana;font-size:10px;font-weight:normal;}#yiv5706518752 .yiv5706518752green {color:#628c2a;}#yiv5706518752 .yiv5706518752MsoNormal {margin:0 0 0 0;}#yiv5706518752 o {font-size:0;}#yiv5706518752 #yiv5706518752photos div {float:left;width:72px;}#yiv5706518752 #yiv5706518752photos div div {border:1px solid #666666;min-height:62px;overflow:hidden;width:62px;}#yiv5706518752 #yiv5706518752photos div label {color:#666666;font-size:10px;overflow:hidden;text-align:center;white-space:nowrap;width:64px;}#yiv5706518752 #yiv5706518752reco-category {font-size:77%;}#yiv5706518752 #yiv5706518752reco-desc {font-size:77%;}#yiv5706518752 .yiv5706518752replbq {margin:4px;}#yiv5706518752 #yiv5706518752ygrp-actbar div a:first-child {margin-right:2px;padding-right:5px;}#yiv5706518752 #yiv5706518752ygrp-mlmsg {font-size:13px;font-family:Arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif;}#yiv5706518752 #yiv5706518752ygrp-mlmsg table {font-size:inherit;font:100%;}#yiv5706518752 #yiv5706518752ygrp-mlmsg select, #yiv5706518752 input, #yiv5706518752 textarea {font:99% Arial, Helvetica, clean, sans-serif;}#yiv5706518752 #yiv5706518752ygrp-mlmsg pre, #yiv5706518752 code {font:115% monospace;}#yiv5706518752 #yiv5706518752ygrp-mlmsg * {line-height:1.22em;}#yiv5706518752 #yiv5706518752ygrp-mlmsg #yiv5706518752logo {padding-bottom:10px;}#yiv5706518752 #yiv5706518752ygrp-msg p a {font-family:Verdana;}#yiv5706518752 #yiv5706518752ygrp-msg p#yiv5706518752attach-count span {color:#1E66AE;font-weight:700;}#yiv5706518752 #yiv5706518752ygrp-reco #yiv5706518752reco-head {color:#ff7900;font-weight:700;}#yiv5706518752 #yiv5706518752ygrp-reco {margin-bottom:20px;padding:0px;}#yiv5706518752 #yiv5706518752ygrp-sponsor #yiv5706518752ov li a {font-size:130%;text-decoration:none;}#yiv5706518752 #yiv5706518752ygrp-sponsor #yiv5706518752ov li {font-size:77%;list-style-type:square;padding:6px 0;}#yiv5706518752 #yiv5706518752ygrp-sponsor #yiv5706518752ov ul {margin:0;padding:0 0 0 8px;}#yiv5706518752 #yiv5706518752ygrp-text {font-family:Georgia;}#yiv5706518752 #yiv5706518752ygrp-text p {margin:0 0 1em 0;}#yiv5706518752 #yiv5706518752ygrp-text tt {font-size:120%;}#yiv5706518752 #yiv5706518752ygrp-vital ul li:last-child {border-right:none !important;}#yiv5706518752

HectorIs it then better to rectify the AC as soon as it is made at the coil, so that it can be combined as a high current DC, with the product of the other coils in parallel?Buffering this in a capacitor, then inverting it, if one wants AC, that can be then changed to the voltage output, one may want?The trick is to have a simple stupid
Inverter that has no brain that shuts it off, when high, or low signals, are recieved, due to fluctuations in the power.I used deep cycle 6 volt batteries, instead of a capacitor, but would rather not, if possible to replace them.The do seem to suck up any signal coming to them, though, and make it tame.Cheers Warren
Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
 
  On Sat, 26 Jan 2019 at 7:13 AM, [email protected] [EVGRAY]<[email protected]> wrote:       

In RV triple flux capacitor was used to excite alternator  ,rectified at WYE center to get DC 





 in multi phase WYE DC motor 
you have an 3x3 flux impedance (9 coils) within a common WYE center  .

can use 9 capacitors 18 diode bridge  to play ...use 40 phases make that 40 caps
80 diode bridge to dc conversion adding the 40 coil shorting gates to the coils  . 


(H)



---In [email protected], <mkjekyll@...> wrote :


 
Hi Ole,
 
Why u instead of V? 
 Yes the inductor is a current source and acts as a current flywheel, good metaphor.  
 
 Can you explain the fabled flux capacitor of Faraday and what may indeed be considered as such if one uses plasma states for instance?  
 
 On 1/25/2019 1:33 PM, onielsen@... [EVGRAY] wrote:
  
 
    
Hi Norman, Mick,
 
 "...a reverse current is being induced into the iron core coil with the reverse polarity."
 The current continues in the same direction while the voltage or tension changes sign. The current can't be stopped or having its direction changed in a jump as it is always continuous. It would be like immediately stopping or changing the direction of a running flywheel. The force required or given off is like the voltage when speaking coils. The voltage or force will be of infinite size if the change happens in an instant. The current starts decreasing from whatever value it has at the disruption. Only how fast is related to the size of the induced voltage (u = L x di/dt) where u is the voltage, L is the inductance of the coil, i is the current and t is time. di/dt is the slope of the current.
 
 Regards
 Ole
 
 
 ---In [email protected], <nwootan@...> wrote :
 
 
  
Mick, first envision a North-South magnetic poles embedded in flywheel. When the North-South magnets bridge the first two poles of the stator (rotation) a forward going current is induced into iron core coil and at same time charges up condenser to max. Important note here is that the impedance of coil is LC matched to the value of the condenser.   When the North-South magnets move over to the middle and last poles, breaker points open and at same time a reverse current is being induced into the iron core coil with the reverse polarity, the condenser discharges through coil windings to frame ground. With the condenser being charged via the forward going current, 1st step, when it discharges into coil a reverse current is being induced by moving magnets. In effect you have opposing currents, opposite polarity, (BUCKING-OPPOSED)  which cause a miniature magnetic flux annihilation event and a MAGNETO-ELECTRIC, micro EMP event. That is the reason the old magnetos had such a powerful spark even when you turned them by hand at super low RPM.    I worked on thousands of them on my magneto test bench.  Norm
 
 On 1/25/2019 9:20 AM, Mick mkjekyll@... [EVGRAY] wrote:
  
 
    
 
 
Norm,
 
So this is the same effect from the 3 pole magneto you showed us, when the cap discharges during the collapsing flyback pulse and compresses the delta?
 
Were three poles used in parallel in order to make sure the iron was fully saturated even at low speed in the old magneto?
 
 On 1/25/2019 9:35 AM, Norman Wootan nwootan@... [EVGRAY] wrote:
  
    
 
 
Your quote, feed it a reverse potential as voltage is maximal peaking and you have a mother of an EMP neutral spike on your hands !       Yeeeeeeaaaaah!  Hector my friend, you got it exactly right. In all my experience with old time magnetos, this is exactly how the conderser discharge through the primary windings happens with reverse polarity.  Bang, you get a sharp crack spark discharge in the bright blue wave lengths.  Not a measily  orange spark without any zip to it.  The 5HP compressor, EMP test I did works this way.
 
 On 1/25/2019 6:35 AM, arkresearch@... [EVGRAY] wrote:
  
    
If you short a coil current becomes maximal voltage stays lag at zero upon max core saturation , then at short cut off ,voltage becomes leading and maximal as current drop to zero ... basic RF neutral spike dynamics !
 
 feed it a reverse potential as voltage is maximal peaking and you have a mother of an EMP neutral spike on your hands !  
 
 (H)   other methods are applicable ,,, rotary is best for simplicity , 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 ---In [email protected], <konehead@...> wrote :
 
 Hi Mick
 "would require shorting to saturate the core from passing a magnet"
 Did you mean:
 "would require shorting to saturate the core from a passing magnet" ?
 I don't know something else?
 Also wouldn't a shorted coil become rf transmitter not so much an antenna?
 Anyways still confused but just half way confused now..
 Kone   
  
  
 
   
 
  #yiv4458482467 #yiv4458482467 -- #yiv4458482467ygrp-mkp {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:10px 0;padding:0 10px;}#yiv4458482467 #yiv4458482467ygrp-mkp hr {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;}#yiv4458482467 #yiv4458482467ygrp-mkp #yiv4458482467hd {color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:700;line-height:122%;margin:10px 0;}#yiv4458482467 #yiv4458482467ygrp-mkp #yiv4458482467ads {margin-bottom:10px;}#yiv4458482467 #yiv4458482467ygrp-mkp .yiv4458482467ad {padding:0 0;}#yiv4458482467 #yiv4458482467ygrp-mkp .yiv4458482467ad p {margin:0;}#yiv4458482467 #yiv4458482467ygrp-mkp .yiv4458482467ad a {color:#0000ff;text-decoration:none;}#yiv4458482467 #yiv4458482467ygrp-sponsor #yiv4458482467ygrp-lc {font-family:Arial;}#yiv4458482467 #yiv4458482467ygrp-sponsor #yiv4458482467ygrp-lc #yiv4458482467hd {margin:10px 0px;font-weight:700;font-size:78%;line-height:122%;}#yiv4458482467 #yiv4458482467ygrp-sponsor #yiv4458482467ygrp-lc .yiv4458482467ad {margin-bottom:10px;padding:0 0;}#yiv4458482467 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Owiee damn, made my eyes water.

On 1/26/2019 12:41 PM, [email protected] [EVGRAY] wrote:
>  
>
>
> Yep ! i told Ash to never run RV wile naked  ClinnnGgg !  Riiiippppp! 
> snap! Thund!  flap! flap! Flap!  flip! flap! flap!
>
> You end "Transgendered" from zero to seven seconds flat!     !
>
> (H)
>
> ---In [email protected], <okbart@...> wrote :
>
> Warren,
>
> Yes clearly known as only the wise and advanced group!  lol
> While in grade 7 the wood shop teacher was showing us how to use the
> wood lathe.
> He turned it on and reached to knock off some loose debris.
> The wind from the turning lathe caught his tie , pulled it until the
> tie ripped.
> His tie was very tight. He made some pretty colors until he could cut
> it off.
> If we laughed we were to be sent home!!!  lol
>
>    Warren , Bridgewater   brings me back to my childhood in memories.
> I am from an area around the bottom and across the Bay. Just  up the
> road a step.
> Alma is a sea going fishing village.  Up the road my father ran a make
> shift scrap/wrecking yard , about 150 -200 cars/trucks
> cycling kind of thing.  When I was about 7-10 years of age he would
> have me strip some thing out for the carburetor ,starter,gen,alternator
> and hang it with bailer twine . Then say that's for  Norms  Tornado up
> the road on blocks !  lol
>
> Bart
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of
> Norman Wootan nwootan@... [EVGRAY] <[email protected]>
> *Sent:* January 26, 2019 10:27 AM
> *To:* [email protected]
> *Subject:* Re: [EVGRAY] Re: Gary Porter looper ready to bideo lnk [1 At
>  
>  
>
> Warren, their main HQ is in Wisconsin but they may have had a plant in
> Canada.  Peterborough, Ontario
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peterborough,_Ontario> -
> Johnson/Evinrude Outboards (Closed in 1990)   Made Ryan lawnmowers. 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outboard_Marine_Corporation    Oh,
> Warren, Bert Pool sent you this. 
>
> Tool definitions
>
> SKILL SAW: A portable cutting tool used to make boards too short.
>
>  
>
> BELT SANDER: An electric sanding tool commonly used to convert minor
> touch-up jobs into major refinishing jobs.
>
>  
>
> WIRE WHEEL: Cleans paint off bolts and then throws them somewhere
> under the workbench with the speed of light. Also removes fingerprints
> and hard-earned calluses from fingers in about the time  takes you to
> say, -----------. Will easily wind a tee shirt off your back.
>
>  
>
> DRILL PRESS: A tall upright machine useful for suddenly snatching flat
> metal bar stock out of your hands so that it smacks you in the chest
> and flings your beer across the room, denting the freshly-painted
> project which you had carefully set in the corner where nothing could
> get to it.
>
>  
>
> Channel Locks: Used to round off bolt heads. Sometimes used in the
> creation of blood-blisters.
>
>  
>
> HACKSAW: One of a family of cutting tools built on the Ouija board
> principle. It transforms human energy into a crooked, unpredictable
> motion, and the more you attempt to influence its course, the more
> dismal your future becomes.
>
>  
>
> VISE-GRIPS: Generally used after pliers to completely round off bolt
> heads. If nothing else is available, they can also be used to transfer
> intense welding heat to the palm of your hand. (Also, commonly called
> "Channel Changers" on TV's of the 1950's with knobs that were stripped
> out or lost when you were fighting with one of your siblings.)
>
>  
>
> OXYGEN/ACETYLENE TORCH: Used almost entirely for igniting various
> flammable objects in your shop and creating a fire. Also handy for
> igniting the grease inside the wheel hub out of which you want to
> remove a bearing race.
>
>  
>
> TABLE SAW: A large stationary power tool commonly used to launch wood
> projectiles for testing wall integrity. Very effective for digit removal!!
>
>  
>
> HYDRAULIC FLOOR JACK: Used for lowering an automobile to the ground
> after you have installed your new brake shoes, trapping the jack
> handle firmly under the bumper.
>
>  
>
> BAND SAW: A large stationary power saw primarily used by most shops to
> cut large pieces into smaller pieces that more easily fit into the
> trash after you cut on the inside of the line instead of the outside
> edge. Also excels at amputations.
>
>  
>
> TWO-TON ENGINE HOIST: A tool for testing the maximum tensile strength
> of all the crap you forgot to disconnect.
>
>  
>
> PHILLIPS SCREWDRIVER: Normally used to stab the vacuum seals under
> lids or for opening old-style paper-and-tin oil cans and splashing oil
> on your shirt; but can also be used, as the name implies, to strip out
> Phillips screw heads. (The Phillips screw was brought to market by
> Henry F. Phillips of Portland, Oregon and first used on the1936
> Cadillac. Now you know who to blame for those stripped out heads. Yes,
> Phillips Lake near Baker, Oregon is also named for Henry Philllips.)
>
>  
>
> STRAIGHT SCREWDRIVER: A tool for opening paint cans. Sometimes used to
> convert common slotted screws into non-removable screws and butchering
> your palms.
>
>  
>
> PRY BAR: A tool used to crumple the metal surrounding that clip or
> bracket you needed to remove in order to replace a 50 cent part.
>
>  
>
> PVC PIPE CUTTER: A tool used to make plastic pipe too short.
>
>  
>
> HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is
> used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts
> adjacent to the object you are trying to hit. Also very effective at
> fingernail removal.
>
>  
>
> UTILITY KNIFE: Used to open and slice through the contents of
> cardboard cartons delivered to your front door. Works particularly
> well on contents such as seats, vinyl records, liquids in plastic
> bottles, collector magazines, refund checks, and rubber or plastic
> parts. Especially useful for slicing work clothes, but only while in
> use. These can also be used to initiate a trip to the emergency room
> so a doctor can sew up the damage.
>
>  
>
> SON OF A BITCH TOOL: Any handy tool that you grab and throw across the
> garage while yelling 'Son of a bitch' at the top of your lungs. It is
> also, most often, the next tool that you will need.
>
>  
>
> DAMMIT CLIP: For us old timers, a clip used on carburetor linkage that
> was easy to remove but almost impossible to put back on. When it went
> flying to who knows where, the mechanic would say: "Dammit, where did
> that clip go". We learned a lot about baling wire from that
> experience. Usually found months or years later by pure accident...
> On 1/26/2019 6:55 AM, Warren Keillor schoonersolsticemoon@...
> <mailto:schoonersolsticemoon@...> [EVGRAY] wrote:
>
>>      
>>
>>     Norman
>>
>>     Didn't Outboard Marine have a plant in Peterborough, Ontario?
>>     They made good products.
>>     Cheap 2 stroke lawn mower engines that wouldn't die, for instance.
>>     Cheers Warren
>>     Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
>>     <https://go.onelink.me/107872968?pid=InProduct&c=Global_Internal_YGrowth_AndroidEmailSig__AndroidUsers&af_wl=ym&af_sub1=Internal&af_sub2=Global_YGrowth&af_sub3=EmailSignature>
>>
>>         On Sat, 26 Jan 2019 at 6:35 AM, Norman Wootan nwootan@...
>>         <mailto:nwootan@...> [EVGRAY]
>>         <[email protected]> <mailto:[email protected]> wrote:
>>          
>>
>>         Sorry Ole, for I have to stick with Tesla on the ALTERNATING
>>         CURRENT.   https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternating_current
>>
>>         A two stroke outboard motor with magneto running at 3600 RPM
>>         has a commutation rate of 60 Hz same as the AC 60Hz line
>>         freq.   When I was a repair technician for 7 years with
>>         Outboard Marine Corp, I got to see a magneto instrumented in
>>         a lab with scope leads to enable viewing the  voltage and
>>         current traces during the magneto cycle. During the 1st step,
>>         N-S PMs passing poles 1 and 2 of an E frame armature there
>>         was induced a forward current and a positive voltage of up to
>>         450V with a current trace clearly showing the knee of the BH
>>         curve indicating the saturation of the iron at peak positive
>>         induced voltage/current. As Kone pointed out, this is a short
>>         circuited primary winding cause one end of winding is frame
>>         grounded and the other end of winding is grounded via the
>>         closed breaker points.    As you pointed out, current does
>>         not like to be stopped and electrons do have inertia so the
>>         condenser acts as a shock absorber to take the current surge
>>         at point opening and also prevent arcing in the breaker. the
>>         accumulated charge in the condenser at circuit opening is up
>>         to 450VDC positive.   When the breaker points opened there
>>         was a straight down, negative going high magnitude negative
>>         spike off scope scale. Remember that when the breaker points
>>         open the PMs are now inducing a reverse polarity voltage and
>>         current into poles 2 and 3 of the E core.  I guess that
>>         Outboard Marine was correct in using the E frame coil stator
>>         for it produced an excellent and powerful ignition  source. 
>>         Since then we have graduated to the Capacitive discharge type
>>         of ignition systems. 
>>
>>         alt
>>
>>         On 1/25/2019 12:33 PM, onielsen@... <mailto:onielsen@...>
>>         [EVGRAY] wrote:
>>>          
>>>
>>>         Hi Norman, Mick,
>>>
>>>         "...a reverse current is being induced into the iron core
>>>         coil with the reverse polarity."
>>>         The current continues in the same direction while the
>>>         voltage or tension changes sign. The current can't be
>>>         stopped or having its direction changed in a jump as it is
>>>         always continuous. It would be like immediately stopping or
>>>         changing the direction of a running flywheel. The force
>>>         required or given off is like the voltage when speaking
>>>         coils. The voltage or force will be of infinite size if the
>>>         change happens in an instant. The current starts decreasing
>>>         from whatever value it has at the disruption. Only how fast
>>>         is related to the size of the induced voltage (u = L x
>>>         di/dt) where u is the voltage, L is the inductance of the
>>>         coil, i is the current and t is time. di/dt is the slope of
>>>         the current.
>>>
>>>         Regards
>>>         Ole
>>>
>>>
>>>         ---In [email protected]
>>>         <mailto:[email protected]>, <nwootan@...>
>>>         <mailto:nwootan@...> wrote :
>>>
>>>         Mick, first envision a North-South magnetic poles embedded
>>>         in flywheel. When the North-South magnets bridge the first
>>>         two poles of the stator (rotation) a forward going current
>>>         is induced into iron core coil and at same time charges up
>>>         condenser to max. Important note here is that the impedance
>>>         of coil is LC matched to the value of the condenser.   When
>>>         the North-South magnets move over to the middle and last
>>>         poles, breaker points open and at same time a reverse
>>>         current is being induced into the iron core coil with the
>>>         reverse polarity, the condenser discharges through coil
>>>         windings to frame ground. With the condenser being charged
>>>         via the forward going current, 1st step, when it discharges
>>>         into coil a reverse current is being induced by moving
>>>         magnets. In effect you have opposing currents, opposite
>>>         polarity, (BUCKING-OPPOSED)  which cause a miniature
>>>         magnetic flux annihilation event and a MAGNETO-ELECTRIC,
>>>         micro EMP event. That is the reason the old magnetos had
>>>         such a powerful spark even when you turned them by hand at
>>>         super low RPM.    I worked on thousands of them on my
>>>         magneto test bench.  Norm
>>>
>>>         On 1/25/2019 9:20 AM, Mick mkjekyll@...
>>>         <mailto:mkjekyll@...> [EVGRAY] wrote:
>>>
>>>>              
>>>>
>>>>             Norm,
>>>>
>>>>             So this is the same effect from the 3 pole magneto you
>>>>             showed us, when the cap discharges during the
>>>>             collapsing flyback pulse and compresses the delta?
>>>>
>>>>             Were three poles used in parallel in order to make sure
>>>>             the iron was fully saturated even at low speed in the
>>>>             old magneto?
>>>>
>>>>             On 1/25/2019 9:35 AM, Norman Wootan nwootan@...
>>>>             <mailto:nwootan@...> [EVGRAY] wrote:
>>>>>              
>>>>>
>>>>>             Your quote, feed it a reverse potential as voltage is
>>>>>             maximal peaking and you have a mother of an EMP
>>>>>             neutral spike on your hands !       Yeeeeeeaaaaah! 
>>>>>             Hector my friend, you got it exactly right. In all my
>>>>>             experience with old time magnetos, this is exactly how
>>>>>             the conderser discharge through the primary windings
>>>>>             happens with reverse polarity.  Bang, you get a sharp
>>>>>             crack spark discharge in the bright blue wave
>>>>>             lengths.  Not a measily  orange spark without any zip
>>>>>             to it.  The 5HP compressor, EMP test I did works this way.
>>>>>
>>>>>             On 1/25/2019 6:35 AM, arkresearch@...
>>>>>             <mailto:arkresearch@...> [EVGRAY] wrote:
>>>>>>              
>>>>>>
>>>>>>             If you short a coil current becomes maximal voltage
>>>>>>             stays lag at zero upon max core saturation , then at
>>>>>>             short cut off ,voltage becomes leading and maximal as
>>>>>>             current drop to zero ... basic RF neutral spike
>>>>>>             dynamics !
>>>>>>
>>>>>>             feed it a reverse potential as voltage is maximal
>>>>>>             peaking and you have a mother of an EMP neutral spike
>>>>>>             on your hands ! 
>>>>>>
>>>>>>             (H)   other methods are applicable ,,, rotary is best
>>>>>>             for simplicity ,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>             ---In [email protected]
>>>>>>             <mailto:[email protected]>, <konehead@...>
>>>>>>             <mailto:konehead@...> wrote :
>>>>>>
>>>>>>             Hi Mick
>>>>>>             "would require shorting to saturate the core from
>>>>>>             passing a magnet"
>>>>>>             Did you mean:
>>>>>>             "would require shorting to saturate the core from a
>>>>>>             passing magnet" ?
>>>>>>             I don't know something else?
>>>>>>             Also wouldn't a shorted coil become rf transmitter
>>>>>>             not so much an antenna?
>>>>>>             Anyways still confused but just half way confused now..
>>>>>>             Kone
>>>
>

Hector,

What speed DC motor works really well for this 1800, 3600?  and are
higher voltage motors any better than the lower voltage, or vis versa? 
Lets say if the end game is building something serious but somewhat
compact and reliable with enough output to get one under some serious
surveillance.

I imagine the higher the RPM the less necessary larger caps.

On 1/26/2019 12:26 PM, [email protected] [EVGRAY] wrote:
>  
>
>
> Have the capacitor charge and at its null neutral discharge it with
> the non reflecting diode plug method , say for 9 phases 18 diodes , 18
> capacitors and 18 trigger scr switches.
>
> remember that i had given this in segments each segment has specific
> applications and effects .
>
> assemble them and you have year 2500 ZPE technology .
>
> list of basic things, way to capture an RE signal and transfer it to a
> JOULE potential as a dc voltage in a capacitor. 
>
> Way to discharge this potential with no reflection to source ..
>
> relate to Normans neutral spike and you have it all !
>
> OU is transformation taking energy from one domain and converting it
> to another .
>
>  
>
> (H)
>
> ---In [email protected], <schoonersolsticemoon@...> wrote :
>
> Hector
> Is it then better to rectify the AC as soon as it is made at the coil,
> so that it can be combined as a high current DC, with the product of
> the other coils in parallel?
> Buffering this in a capacitor, then inverting it, if one wants AC,
> that can be then changed to the voltage output, one may want?
> The trick is to have a simple stupid
> Inverter that has no brain that shuts it off, when high, or low
> signals, are recieved, due to fluctuations in the power.
> I used deep cycle 6 volt batteries, instead of a capacitor, but would
> rather not, if possible to replace them.
> The do seem to suck up any signal coming to them, though, and make it
> tame.
> Cheers Warren
> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
> <https://go.onelink.me/107872968?pid=InProduct&c=Global_Internal_YGrowth_AndroidEmailSig__AndroidUsers&af_wl=ym&af_sub1=Internal&af_sub2=Global_YGrowth&af_sub3=EmailSignature>
>
>         On Sat, 26 Jan 2019 at 7:13 AM, arkresearch@... [EVGRAY]
>         <[email protected]> wrote:
>          
>
>
>         In RV triple flux capacitor was used to excite alternator
>         ,rectified at WYE center to get DC
>
>
>         Image result for rotoverter
>
>
>          in multi phase WYE DC motor alt
>         you have an 3x3 flux impedance (9 coils) within a common WYE
>         center  .
>
>         can use 9 capacitors 18 diode bridge  to play ...use 40 phases
>         make that 40 caps
>         80 diode bridge to dc conversion adding the 40 coil shorting
>         gates to the coils  .
>
>
>         (H)
>
>
>
>         ---In [email protected], <mkjekyll@...> wrote :
>
>         Hi Ole,
>
>         Why u instead of V?
>         Yes the inductor is a current source and acts as a current
>         flywheel, good metaphor. 
>
>         Can you explain the fabled flux capacitor of Faraday and what
>         may indeed be considered as such if one uses plasma states for
>         instance? 
>
>         On 1/25/2019 1:33 PM, onielsen@... <mailto:onielsen@...>
>         [EVGRAY] wrote:
>
>>              
>>
>>             Hi Norman, Mick,
>>
>>             "...a reverse current is being induced into the iron core
>>             coil with the reverse polarity."
>>             The current continues in the same direction while the
>>             voltage or tension changes sign. The current can't be
>>             stopped or having its direction changed in a jump as it
>>             is always continuous. It would be like immediately
>>             stopping or changing the direction of a running flywheel.
>>             The force required or given off is like the voltage when
>>             speaking coils. The voltage or force will be of infinite
>>             size if the change happens in an instant. The current
>>             starts decreasing from whatever value it has at the
>>             disruption. Only how fast is related to the size of the
>>             induced voltage (u = L x di/dt) where u is the voltage, L
>>             is the inductance of the coil, i is the current and t is
>>             time. di/dt is the slope of the current.
>>
>>             Regards
>>             Ole
>>
>>
>>             ---In [email protected]
>>             <mailto:[email protected]>, <nwootan@...>
>>             <mailto:nwootan@...> wrote :
>>
>>             Mick, first envision a North-South magnetic poles
>>             embedded in flywheel. When the North-South magnets bridge
>>             the first two poles of the stator (rotation) a forward
>>             going current is induced into iron core coil and at same
>>             time charges up condenser to max. Important note here is
>>             that the impedance of coil is LC matched to the value of
>>             the condenser.   When the North-South magnets move over
>>             to the middle and last poles, breaker points open and at
>>             same time a reverse current is being induced into the
>>             iron core coil with the reverse polarity, the condenser
>>             discharges through coil windings to frame ground. With
>>             the condenser being charged via the forward going
>>             current, 1st step, when it discharges into coil a reverse
>>             current is being induced by moving magnets. In effect you
>>             have opposing currents, opposite polarity,
>>             (BUCKING-OPPOSED)  which cause a miniature magnetic flux
>>             annihilation event and a MAGNETO-ELECTRIC, micro EMP
>>             event. That is the reason the old magnetos had such a
>>             powerful spark even when you turned them by hand at super
>>             low RPM.    I worked on thousands of them on my magneto
>>             test bench.  Norm
>>
>>             On 1/25/2019 9:20 AM, Mick mkjekyll@...
>>             <mailto:mkjekyll@...> [EVGRAY] wrote:
>>
>>>                  
>>>
>>>                 Norm,
>>>
>>>                 So this is the same effect from the 3 pole magneto
>>>                 you showed us, when the cap discharges during the
>>>                 collapsing flyback pulse and compresses the delta?
>>>
>>>                 Were three poles used in parallel in order to make
>>>                 sure the iron was fully saturated even at low speed
>>>                 in the old magneto?
>>>
>>>                 On 1/25/2019 9:35 AM, Norman Wootan nwootan@...
>>>                 <mailto:nwootan@...> [EVGRAY] wrote:
>>>>                  
>>>>
>>>>                 Your quote, feed it a reverse potential as voltage
>>>>                 is maximal peaking and you have a mother of an EMP
>>>>                 neutral spike on your hands !       Yeeeeeeaaaaah! 
>>>>                 Hector my friend, you got it exactly right. In all
>>>>                 my experience with old time magnetos, this is
>>>>                 exactly how the conderser discharge through the
>>>>                 primary windings happens with reverse polarity. 
>>>>                 Bang, you get a sharp crack spark discharge in the
>>>>                 bright blue wave lengths.  Not a measily  orange
>>>>                 spark without any zip to it.  The 5HP compressor,
>>>>                 EMP test I did works this way.
>>>>
>>>>                 On 1/25/2019 6:35 AM, arkresearch@...
>>>>                 <mailto:arkresearch@...> [EVGRAY] wrote:
>>>>>                  
>>>>>
>>>>>                 If you short a coil current becomes maximal
>>>>>                 voltage stays lag at zero upon max core saturation
>>>>>                 , then at short cut off ,voltage becomes leading
>>>>>                 and maximal as current drop to zero ... basic RF
>>>>>                 neutral spike dynamics !
>>>>>
>>>>>                 feed it a reverse potential as voltage is maximal
>>>>>                 peaking and you have a mother of an EMP neutral
>>>>>                 spike on your hands ! 
>>>>>
>>>>>                 (H)   other methods are applicable ,,, rotary is
>>>>>                 best for simplicity ,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>                 ---In [email protected]
>>>>>                 <mailto:[email protected]>, <konehead@...>
>>>>>                 <mailto:konehead@...> wrote :
>>>>>
>>>>>                 Hi Mick
>>>>>                 "would require shorting to saturate the core from
>>>>>                 passing a magnet"
>>>>>                 Did you mean:
>>>>>                 "would require shorting to saturate the core from
>>>>>                 a passing magnet" ?
>>>>>                 I don't know something else?
>>>>>                 Also wouldn't a shorted coil become rf transmitter
>>>>>                 not so much an antenna?
>>>>>                 Anyways still confused but just half way confused
>>>>>                 now..
>>>>>                 Kone
>>
>

Ole,

I think you may be overlooking the fact that the magnet north is passing
over the coil then the magnet south is passing over...

On 1/26/2019 11:21 AM, [email protected] [EVGRAY] wrote:
>  
>
> Hi Norman,
>
> For generating high voltage the flyback pulse formed by abruptly
> stopping the current is used. At input the voltage and current have
> the same sign meaning energy enters the coil which stores that energy
> as magnetic field energy. At output the power becomes negative meaning
> either the voltage or the current has to change sign. If both changes
> sign then power still enters the coil. Disrupting the current induces
> the flyback pulse where the voltage changes sign meaning the magnetic
> field strength is decreasing. The rate of decrease determines the
> voltage induced. If the energy isn't dissipated like when having
> capacitance in the circuit the current changes direction after the
> energy has been stored in the capacitor as electric field energy by
> charging the capacitor. Discharging the capacitor makes the current
> change sign while the voltage can't be discontinuous in a capacitor
> (no jumps allowed). The voltage in a capacitor is like the current in
> an inductor and the current in a capacitor is like the voltage in an
> inductor. One can be discontinuous while the other must be continuous
> by making no jumps. This is what makes them follow each other's tail
> doing oscillations when connected together and not having enough
> damping (resistance).
>
> Regards
> Ole
>
>
> ---In [email protected], <nwootan@...> wrote :
>
> Sorry Ole, for I have to stick with Tesla on the ALTERNATING
> CURRENT.   https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternating_current
>
> A two stroke outboard motor with magneto running at 3600 RPM has a
> commutation rate of 60 Hz same as the AC 60Hz line freq.   When I was
> a repair technician for 7 years with Outboard Marine Corp, I got to
> see a magneto instrumented in a lab with scope leads to enable viewing
> the  voltage and current traces during the magneto cycle. During the
> 1st step, N-S PMs passing poles 1 and 2 of an E frame armature there
> was induced a forward current and a positive voltage of up to 450V
> with a current trace clearly showing the knee of the BH curve
> indicating the saturation of the iron at peak positive induced
> voltage/current. As Kone pointed out, this is a short circuited
> primary winding cause one end of winding is frame grounded and the
> other end of winding is grounded via the closed breaker points.    As
> you pointed out, current does not like to be stopped and electrons do
> have inertia so the condenser acts as a shock absorber to take the
> current surge at point opening and also prevent arcing in the breaker.
> the accumulated charge in the condenser at circuit opening is up to
> 450VDC positive.   When the breaker points opened there was a straight
> down, negative going high magnitude negative spike off scope scale.
> Remember that when the breaker points open the PMs are now inducing a
> reverse polarity voltage and current into poles 2 and 3 of the E
> core.  I guess that Outboard Marine was correct in using the E frame
> coil stator for it produced an excellent and powerful ignition 
> source.  Since then we have graduated to the Capacitive discharge type
> of ignition systems. 
>
> On 1/25/2019 12:33 PM, onielsen@... <mailto:onielsen@...> [EVGRAY] wrote:
>
>>      
>>
>>     Hi Norman, Mick,
>>
>>     "...a reverse current is being induced into the iron core coil
>>     with the reverse polarity."
>>     The current continues in the same direction while the voltage or
>>     tension changes sign. The current can't be stopped or having its
>>     direction changed in a jump as it is always continuous. It would
>>     be like immediately stopping or changing the direction of a
>>     running flywheel. The force required or given off is like the
>>     voltage when speaking coils. The voltage or force will be of
>>     infinite size if the change happens in an instant. The current
>>     starts decreasing from whatever value it has at the disruption.
>>     Only how fast is related to the size of the induced voltage (u =
>>     L x di/dt) where u is the voltage, L is the inductance of the
>>     coil, i is the current and t is time. di/dt is the slope of the
>>     current.
>>
>>     Regards
>>     Ole
>>
>>
>>     ---In [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>,
>>     <nwootan@...> <mailto:nwootan@...> wrote :
>>
>>     Mick, first envision a North-South magnetic poles embedded in
>>     flywheel. When the North-South magnets bridge the first two poles
>>     of the stator (rotation) a forward going current is induced into
>>     iron core coil and at same time charges up condenser to max.
>>     Important note here is that the impedance of coil is LC matched
>>     to the value of the condenser.   When the North-South magnets
>>     move over to the middle and last poles, breaker points open and
>>     at same time a reverse current is being induced into the iron
>>     core coil with the reverse polarity, the condenser discharges
>>     through coil windings to frame ground. With the condenser being
>>     charged via the forward going current, 1st step, when it
>>     discharges into coil a reverse current is being induced by moving
>>     magnets. In effect you have opposing currents, opposite polarity,
>>     (BUCKING-OPPOSED)  which cause a miniature magnetic flux
>>     annihilation event and a MAGNETO-ELECTRIC, micro EMP event. That
>>     is the reason the old magnetos had such a powerful spark even
>>     when you turned them by hand at super low RPM.    I worked on
>>     thousands of them on my magneto test bench.  Norm
>>
>>     On 1/25/2019 9:20 AM, Mick mkjekyll@... <mailto:mkjekyll@...>
>>     [EVGRAY] wrote:
>>
>>>          
>>>
>>>         Norm,
>>>
>>>         So this is the same effect from the 3 pole magneto you
>>>         showed us, when the cap discharges during the collapsing
>>>         flyback pulse and compresses the delta?
>>>
>>>         Were three poles used in parallel in order to make sure the
>>>         iron was fully saturated even at low speed in the old magneto?
>>>
>>>         On 1/25/2019 9:35 AM, Norman Wootan nwootan@...
>>>         <mailto:nwootan@...> [EVGRAY] wrote:
>>>>          
>>>>
>>>>         Your quote, feed it a reverse potential as voltage is
>>>>         maximal peaking and you have a mother of an EMP neutral
>>>>         spike on your hands !       Yeeeeeeaaaaah!  Hector my
>>>>         friend, you got it exactly right. In all my experience with
>>>>         old time magnetos, this is exactly how the conderser
>>>>         discharge through the primary windings happens with reverse
>>>>         polarity.  Bang, you get a sharp crack spark discharge in
>>>>         the bright blue wave lengths.  Not a measily  orange spark
>>>>         without any zip to it.  The 5HP compressor, EMP test I did
>>>>         works this way.
>>>>
>>>>         On 1/25/2019 6:35 AM, arkresearch@...
>>>>         <mailto:arkresearch@...> [EVGRAY] wrote:
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>>         If you short a coil current becomes maximal voltage stays
>>>>>         lag at zero upon max core saturation , then at short cut
>>>>>         off ,voltage becomes leading and maximal as current drop
>>>>>         to zero ... basic RF neutral spike dynamics !
>>>>>
>>>>>         feed it a reverse potential as voltage is maximal peaking
>>>>>         and you have a mother of an EMP neutral spike on your
>>>>>         hands ! 
>>>>>
>>>>>         (H)   other methods are applicable ,,, rotary is best for
>>>>>         simplicity ,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>         ---In [email protected]
>>>>>         <mailto:[email protected]>, <konehead@...>
>>>>>         <mailto:konehead@...> wrote :
>>>>>
>>>>>         Hi Mick
>>>>>         "would require shorting to saturate the core from passing
>>>>>         a magnet"
>>>>>         Did you mean:
>>>>>         "would require shorting to saturate the core from a
>>>>>         passing magnet" ?
>>>>>         I don't know something else?
>>>>>         Also wouldn't a shorted coil become rf transmitter not so
>>>>>         much an antenna?
>>>>>         Anyways still confused but just half way confused now..
>>>>>         Kone
>>
>

Warren,

Yes clearly known as only the wise and advanced group!  lol
While in grade 7 the wood shop teacher was showing us how to use the wood lathe.
He turned it on and reached to knock off some loose debris.
The wind from the turning lathe caught his tie , pulled it until the tie ripped.
His tie was very tight. He made some pretty colors until he could cut it off.
If we laughed we were to be sent home!!!  lol

   Warren , Bridgewater   brings me back to my childhood in memories.
I am from an area around the bottom and across the Bay. Just  up the road a step.
Alma is a sea going fishing village.  Up the road my father ran a make shift scrap/wrecking yard , about 150 -200 cars/trucks
cycling kind of thing.  When I was about 7-10 years of age he would have me strip some thing out for the carburetor ,starter,gen,alternator
and hang it with bailer twine . Then say that's for  Norms  Tornado up the road on blocks !  lol

Bart
________________________________
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of Norman Wootan [email protected] [EVGRAY] <[email protected]>
Sent: January 26, 2019 10:27 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [EVGRAY] Re: Gary Porter looper ready to bideo lnk [1 At



Warren, their main HQ is in Wisconsin but they may have had a plant in Canada.  Peterborough, Ontario<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peterborough,_Ontario> - Johnson/Evinrude Outboards (Closed in 1990)   Made Ryan lawnmowers.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outboard_Marine_Corporation    Oh, Warren, Bert Pool sent you this.

Tool definitions

SKILL SAW: A portable cutting tool used to make boards too short.



BELT SANDER: An electric sanding tool commonly used to convert minor touch-up jobs into major refinishing jobs.



WIRE WHEEL: Cleans paint off bolts and then throws them somewhere under the workbench with the speed of light. Also removes fingerprints and hard-earned calluses from fingers in about the time  takes you to say, -----------. Will easily wind a tee shirt off your back.



DRILL PRESS: A tall upright machine useful for suddenly snatching flat metal bar stock out of your hands so that it smacks you in the chest and flings your beer across the room, denting the freshly-painted project which you had carefully set in the corner where nothing could get to it.



Channel Locks: Used to round off bolt heads. Sometimes used in the creation of blood-blisters.



HACKSAW: One of a family of cutting tools built on the Ouija board principle. It transforms human energy into a crooked, unpredictable motion, and the more you attempt to influence its course, the more dismal your future becomes.



VISE-GRIPS: Generally used after pliers to completely round off bolt heads. If nothing else is available, they can also be used to transfer intense welding heat to the palm of your hand. (Also, commonly called "Channel Changers" on TV's of the 1950's with knobs that were stripped out or lost when you were fighting with one of your siblings.)



OXYGEN/ACETYLENE TORCH: Used almost entirely for igniting various flammable objects in your shop and creating a fire. Also handy for igniting the grease inside the wheel hub out of which you want to remove a bearing race.



TABLE SAW: A large stationary power tool commonly used to launch wood projectiles for testing wall integrity. Very effective for digit removal!!



HYDRAULIC FLOOR JACK: Used for lowering an automobile to the ground after you have installed your new brake shoes, trapping the jack handle firmly under the bumper.



BAND SAW: A large stationary power saw primarily used by most shops to cut large pieces into smaller pieces that more easily fit into the trash after you cut on the inside of the line instead of the outside edge. Also excels at amputations.



TWO-TON ENGINE HOIST: A tool for testing the maximum tensile strength of all the crap you forgot to disconnect.



PHILLIPS SCREWDRIVER: Normally used to stab the vacuum seals under lids or for opening old-style paper-and-tin oil cans and splashing oil on your shirt; but can also be used, as the name implies, to strip out Phillips screw heads. (The Phillips screw was brought to market by Henry F. Phillips of Portland, Oregon and first used on the1936 Cadillac. Now you know who to blame for those stripped out heads. Yes, Phillips Lake near Baker, Oregon is also named for Henry Philllips.)



STRAIGHT SCREWDRIVER: A tool for opening paint cans. Sometimes used to convert common slotted screws into non-removable screws and butchering your palms.



PRY BAR: A tool used to crumple the metal surrounding that clip or bracket you needed to remove in order to replace a 50 cent part.



PVC PIPE CUTTER: A tool used to make plastic pipe too short.



HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent to the object you are trying to hit. Also very effective at fingernail removal.



UTILITY KNIFE: Used to open and slice through the contents of cardboard cartons delivered to your front door. Works particularly well on contents such as seats, vinyl records, liquids in plastic bottles, collector magazines, refund checks, and rubber or plastic parts. Especially useful for slicing work clothes, but only while in use. These can also be used to initiate a trip to the emergency room so a doctor can sew up the damage.



SON OF A BITCH TOOL: Any handy tool that you grab and throw across the garage while yelling 'Son of a bitch' at the top of your lungs. It is also, most often, the next tool that you will need.



DAMMIT CLIP: For us old timers, a clip used on carburetor linkage that was easy to remove but almost impossible to put back on. When it went flying to who knows where, the mechanic would say: "Dammit, where did that clip go". We learned a lot about baling wire from that experience. Usually found months or years later by pure accident...
On 1/26/2019 6:55 AM, Warren Keillor [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> [EVGRAY] wrote:


Norman

Didn't Outboard Marine have a plant in Peterborough, Ontario?
They made good products.
Cheap 2 stroke lawn mower engines that wouldn't die, for instance.
Cheers Warren
Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android<https://go.onelink.me/107872968?pid=InProduct&c=Global_Internal_YGrowth_AndroidEmailSig__AndroidUsers&af_wl=ym&af_sub1=Internal&af_sub2=Global_YGrowth&af_sub3=EmailSignature>

On Sat, 26 Jan 2019 at 6:35 AM, Norman Wootan [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> [EVGRAY]
<[email protected]><mailto:[email protected]> wrote:


Sorry Ole, for I have to stick with Tesla on the ALTERNATING CURRENT.   https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternating_current

A two stroke outboard motor with magneto running at 3600 RPM has a commutation rate of 60 Hz same as the AC 60Hz line freq.   When I was a repair technician for 7 years with Outboard Marine Corp, I got to see a magneto instrumented in a lab with scope leads to enable viewing the  voltage and current traces during the magneto cycle. During the 1st step, N-S PMs passing poles 1 and 2 of an E frame armature there was induced a forward current and a positive voltage of up to 450V with a current trace clearly showing the knee of the BH curve indicating the saturation of the iron at peak positive induced voltage/current. As Kone pointed out, this is a short circuited primary winding cause one end of winding is frame grounded and the other end of winding is grounded via the closed breaker points.    As you pointed out, current does not like to be stopped and electrons do have inertia so the condenser acts as a shock absorber to take the current surge at point opening and also prevent arcing in the breaker. the accumulated charge in the condenser at circuit opening is up to 450VDC positive.   When the breaker points opened there was a straight down, negative going high magnitude negative spike off scope scale. Remember that when the breaker points open the PMs are now inducing a reverse polarity voltage and current into poles 2 and 3 of the E core.  I guess that Outboard Marine was correct in using the E frame coil stator for it produced an excellent and powerful ignition  source.  Since then we have graduated to the Capacitive discharge type of ignition systems.

[alt]

On 1/25/2019 12:33 PM, [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> [EVGRAY] wrote:


Hi Norman, Mick,

"...a reverse current is being induced into the iron core coil with the reverse polarity."
The current continues in the same direction while the voltage or tension changes sign. The current can't be stopped or having its direction changed in a jump as it is always continuous. It would be like immediately stopping or changing the direction of a running flywheel. The force required or given off is like the voltage when speaking coils. The voltage or force will be of infinite size if the change happens in an instant. The current starts decreasing from whatever value it has at the disruption. Only how fast is related to the size of the induced voltage (u = L x di/dt) where u is the voltage, L is the inductance of the coil, i is the current and t is time. di/dt is the slope of the current.

Regards
Ole


---In [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>, <nwootan@...><mailto:nwootan@...> wrote :


Mick, first envision a North-South magnetic poles embedded in flywheel. When the North-South magnets bridge the first two poles of the stator (rotation) a forward going current is induced into iron core coil and at same time charges up condenser to max. Important note here is that the impedance of coil is LC matched to the value of the condenser.   When the North-South magnets move over to the middle and last poles, breaker points open and at same time a reverse current is being induced into the iron core coil with the reverse polarity, the condenser discharges through coil windings to frame ground. With the condenser being charged via the forward going current, 1st step, when it discharges into coil a reverse current is being induced by moving magnets. In effect you have opposing currents, opposite polarity, (BUCKING-OPPOSED)  which cause a miniature magnetic flux annihilation event and a MAGNETO-ELECTRIC, micro EMP event. That is the reason the old magnetos had such a powerful spark even when you turned them by hand at super low RPM.    I worked on thousands of them on my magneto test bench.  Norm

On 1/25/2019 9:20 AM, Mick mkjekyll@...<mailto:mkjekyll@...> [EVGRAY] wrote:


Norm,

So this is the same effect from the 3 pole magneto you showed us, when the cap discharges during the collapsing flyback pulse and compresses the delta?

Were three poles used in parallel in order to make sure the iron was fully saturated even at low speed in the old magneto?

On 1/25/2019 9:35 AM, Norman Wootan nwootan@...<mailto:nwootan@...> [EVGRAY] wrote:


Your quote, feed it a reverse potential as voltage is maximal peaking and you have a mother of an EMP neutral spike on your hands !       Yeeeeeeaaaaah!  Hector my friend, you got it exactly right. In all my experience with old time magnetos, this is exactly how the conderser discharge through the primary windings happens with reverse polarity.  Bang, you get a sharp crack spark discharge in the bright blue wave lengths.  Not a measily  orange spark without any zip to it.  The 5HP compressor, EMP test I did works this way.

On 1/25/2019 6:35 AM, arkresearch@...<mailto:arkresearch@...> [EVGRAY] wrote:


If you short a coil current becomes maximal voltage stays lag at zero upon max core saturation , then at short cut off ,voltage becomes leading and maximal as current drop to zero ... basic RF neutral spike dynamics !

feed it a reverse potential as voltage is maximal peaking and you have a mother of an EMP neutral spike on your hands !

(H)   other methods are applicable ,,, rotary is best for simplicity , [https://s.yimg.com/ok/u/assets/img/emoticons/emo15.gif]

[https://s.yimg.com/ok/u/assets/img/emoticons/emo14.gif]




---In [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>, <konehead@...><mailto:konehead@...> wrote :

Hi Mick
"would require shorting to saturate the core from passing a magnet"
Did you mean:
"would require shorting to saturate the core from a passing magnet" ?
I don't know something else?
Also wouldn't a shorted coil become rf transmitter not so much an antenna?
Anyways still confused but just half way confused now..
Kone

Have the capacitor charge and at its null neutral discharge it with the non reflecting diode plug method , say for 9 phases 18 diodes , 18 capacitors and 18 trigger scr switches.

remember that i had given this in segments each segment has specific applications and effects .

assemble them and you have year 2500 ZPE technology .

list of basic things, way to capture an RE signal and transfer it to a JOULE potential as a dc voltage in a capacitor.  

Way to discharge this potential with no reflection to source ..

relate to Normans neutral spike and you have it all ! 

OU is transformation taking energy from one domain and converting it to another .

 

(H) 

---In [email protected], <schoonersolsticemoon@...> wrote :

 Hector Is it then better to rectify the AC as soon as it is made at the coil, so that it can be combined as a high current DC, with the product of the other coils in parallel?
 Buffering this in a capacitor, then inverting it, if one wants AC, that can be then changed to the voltage output, one may want?
 The trick is to have a simple stupid
Inverter that has no brain that shuts it off, when high, or low signals, are recieved, due to fluctuations in the power.
 I used deep cycle 6 volt batteries, instead of a capacitor, but would rather not, if possible to replace them.
 The do seem to suck up any signal coming to them, though, and make it tame.
 Cheers Warren
 Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android https://go.onelink.me/107872968?pid=InProduct&c=Global_Internal_YGrowth_AndroidEmailSig__AndroidUsers&af_wl=ym&af_sub1=Internal&af_sub2=Global_YGrowth&af_sub3=EmailSignature
 
 On Sat, 26 Jan 2019 at 7:13 AM, arkresearch@... [EVGRAY]
 <[email protected]> wrote:
 
   
In RV triple flux capacitor was used to excite alternator ,rectified at WYE center to get DC 





 in multi phase WYE DC motor 
you have an 3x3 flux impedance (9 coils) within a common WYE center  .

can use 9 capacitors 18 diode bridge  to play ...use 40 phases make that 40 caps
80 diode bridge to dc conversion adding the 40 coil shorting gates to the coils  . 


(H)



---In [email protected], <mkjekyll@...> wrote :


 Hi Ole,
 Why u instead of V? 
 Yes the inductor is a current source and acts as a current flywheel, good metaphor.  
 
 Can you explain the fabled flux capacitor of Faraday and what may indeed be considered as such if one uses plasma states for instance?  
 
 On 1/25/2019 1:33 PM, onielsen@... mailto:onielsen@... [EVGRAY] wrote:
 
   Hi Norman, Mick,
 
 "...a reverse current is being induced into the iron core coil with the reverse polarity."
 The current continues in the same direction while the voltage or tension changes sign. The current can't be stopped or having its direction changed in a jump as it is always continuous. It would be like immediately stopping or changing the direction of a running flywheel. The force required or given off is like the voltage when speaking coils. The voltage or force will be of infinite size if the change happens in an instant. The current starts decreasing from whatever value it has at the disruption. Only how fast is related to the size of the induced voltage (u = L x di/dt) where u is the voltage, L is the inductance of the coil, i is the current and t is time. di/dt is the slope of the current.
 
 Regards
 Ole
 
 
 ---In [email protected] mailto:[email protected], <nwootan@...> mailto:nwootan@... wrote :
 
 
 Mick, first envision a North-South magnetic poles embedded in flywheel. When the North-South magnets bridge the first two poles of the stator (rotation) a forward going current is induced into iron core coil and at same time charges up condenser to max. Important note here is that the impedance of coil is LC matched to the value of the condenser.   When the North-South magnets move over to the middle and last poles, breaker points open and at same time a reverse current is being induced into the iron core coil with the reverse polarity, the condenser discharges through coil windings to frame ground. With the condenser being charged via the forward going current, 1st step, when it discharges into coil a reverse current is being induced by moving magnets. In effect you have opposing currents, opposite polarity, (BUCKING-OPPOSED)  which cause a miniature magnetic flux annihilation event and a MAGNETO-ELECTRIC, micro EMP event. That is the reason the old magnetos had such a powerful spark even when you turned them by hand at super low RPM.    I worked on thousands of them on my magneto test bench.  Norm
 
 On 1/25/2019 9:20 AM, Mick mkjekyll@... mailto:mkjekyll@... [EVGRAY] wrote:
 
   
 Norm,
 So this is the same effect from the 3 pole magneto you showed us, when the cap discharges during the collapsing flyback pulse and compresses the delta?
 Were three poles used in parallel in order to make sure the iron was fully saturated even at low speed in the old magneto?
 
 On 1/25/2019 9:35 AM, Norman Wootan nwootan@... mailto:nwootan@... [EVGRAY] wrote:
 
   
 Your quote, feed it a reverse potential as voltage is maximal peaking and you have a mother of an EMP neutral spike on your hands !       Yeeeeeeaaaaah!  Hector my friend, you got it exactly right. In all my experience with old time magnetos, this is exactly how the conderser discharge through the primary windings happens with reverse polarity.  Bang, you get a sharp crack spark discharge in the bright blue wave lengths.  Not a measily  orange spark without any zip to it.  The 5HP compressor, EMP test I did works this way.
 
 On 1/25/2019 6:35 AM, arkresearch@... mailto:arkresearch@... [EVGRAY] wrote:
 
   If you short a coil current becomes maximal voltage stays lag at zero upon max core saturation , then at short cut off ,voltage becomes leading and maximal as current drop to zero ... basic RF neutral spike dynamics !
 
 feed it a reverse potential as voltage is maximal peaking and you have a mother of an EMP neutral spike on your hands !  
 
 (H)   other methods are applicable ,,, rotary is best for simplicity , 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 ---In [email protected] mailto:[email protected], <konehead@...> mailto:konehead@... wrote :
 
 Hi Mick
 "would require shorting to saturate the core from passing a magnet"
 Did you mean:
 "would require shorting to saturate the core from a passing magnet" ?
 I don't know something else?
 Also wouldn't a shorted coil become rf transmitter not so much an antenna?
 Anyways still confused but just half way confused now..
 Kone

HI Warren,

Good point about the bridge rectifier.   I am aware of DC motors and how
much abuse one can muster and still be ok.  My question is framed in the
context of the impedance as designs for higher voltage may have more
windings per pole and the design RPM or voltage may define the pole
number as with an AC motor,  of which I imagine more is better.   I am
sure you have much more experience with these motors and perhaps can
answer supra.

As I don't have a nearby scrapper and will likely use ebay for the
purchase I am just looking for something that may conform better for the
desired use. 

I know Hector really seems to like the windmill one that looks like a
modded alternator that is already designed as a generator, but I would
feel guilty cannibalizing something that pricey as my first try, however
there is a nice assortment of stuff on ebay for around 100 bucks to play
with in order to get the concept down.  Also I would like to try the
concept using the caps and prefer the cap requirement being of a lower
capacity as to prices on these things.

What i also find very interesting are the ways of re-winding a DC motor
in that it will keep running faster until it self destructs with around
it's stock voltage spec.  I think this overspeeed event is something
important and would like to experiment with this, obviously with
something cheap.  Hector mentioned the WYE will do this...  There is
another way to make it happen with AC motors and changing the field
windings.

Self resonant induced spin in torroids is one of my interests I think I
may have mentioned to you.  Often one is limited by the specs of the
transistor or switching device if limited to one field however by adding
them with proper modulation is another story.


On 1/26/2019 3:37 PM, Warren Keillor [email protected]
[EVGRAY] wrote:
>  
>
> Mick
>
> I have found the same DC motor able to go from 100 rpm to 10.000, if
> the balance, and bearings, are good.
> You may get a minor furnace at the brushes, at higher voltages though.
> For this, put a bridge rectifier of 1000 volts, AC legs down across
> the brushes, sending the DC out to somewhere useful, solving the brush
> burnout.
> Cheers Warren
> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
> <https://go.onelink.me/107872968?pid=InProduct&c=Global_Internal_YGrowth_AndroidEmailSig__AndroidUsers&af_wl=ym&af_sub1=Internal&af_sub2=Global_YGrowth&af_sub3=EmailSignature>
>
>     On Sat, 26 Jan 2019 at 3:00 PM, Mick [email protected] [EVGRAY]
>     <[email protected]> wrote:
>      
>
>     Hector,
>
>     What speed DC motor works really well for this 1800, 3600?  and
>     are higher voltage motors any better than the lower voltage, or
>     vis versa? 
>     Lets say if the end game is building something serious but
>     somewhat compact and reliable with enough output to get one under
>     some serious surveillance.
>
>     I imagine the higher the RPM the less necessary larger caps.
>
>     On 1/26/2019 12:26 PM, [email protected]
>     <mailto:[email protected]> [EVGRAY] wrote:
>>      
>>
>>
>>     Have the capacitor charge and at its null neutral discharge it
>>     with the non reflecting diode plug method , say for 9 phases 18
>>     diodes , 18 capacitors and 18 trigger scr switches.
>>
>>     remember that i had given this in segments each segment has
>>     specific applications and effects .
>>
>>     assemble them and you have year 2500 ZPE technology .
>>
>>     list of basic things, way to capture an RE signal and transfer it
>>     to a JOULE potential as a dc voltage in a capacitor. 
>>
>>     Way to discharge this potential with no reflection to source ..
>>
>>     relate to Normans neutral spike and you have it all !
>>
>>     OU is transformation taking energy from one domain and converting
>>     it to another .
>>
>>      
>>
>>     (H)
>>
>>     ---In [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>,
>>     <schoonersolsticemoon@...> <mailto:schoonersolsticemoon@...> wrote :
>>
>>     Hector
>>     Is it then better to rectify the AC as soon as it is made at the
>>     coil, so that it can be combined as a high current DC, with the
>>     product of the other coils in parallel?
>>     Buffering this in a capacitor, then inverting it, if one wants
>>     AC, that can be then changed to the voltage output, one may want?
>>     The trick is to have a simple stupid
>>     Inverter that has no brain that shuts it off, when high, or low
>>     signals, are recieved, due to fluctuations in the power.
>>     I used deep cycle 6 volt batteries, instead of a capacitor, but
>>     would rather not, if possible to replace them.
>>     The do seem to suck up any signal coming to them, though, and
>>     make it tame.
>>     Cheers Warren
>>     Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
>>     <https://go.onelink.me/107872968?pid=InProduct&c=Global_Internal_YGrowth_AndroidEmailSig__AndroidUsers&af_wl=ym&af_sub1=Internal&af_sub2=Global_YGrowth&af_sub3=EmailSignature>
>>
>>             On Sat, 26 Jan 2019 at 7:13 AM, arkresearch@... [EVGRAY]
>>             <[email protected]> <mailto:[email protected]>
>>             wrote:
>>              
>>
>>
>>             In RV triple flux capacitor was used to excite alternator
>>             ,rectified at WYE center to get DC
>>
>>
>>             Image result for rotoverter
>>
>>
>>              in multi phase WYE DC motor alt
>>             you have an 3x3 flux impedance (9 coils) within a common
>>             WYE center  .
>>
>>             can use 9 capacitors 18 diode bridge  to play ...use 40
>>             phases make that 40 caps
>>             80 diode bridge to dc conversion adding the 40 coil
>>             shorting gates to the coils  .
>>
>>
>>             (H)
>>
>>
>>
>>             ---In [email protected]
>>             <mailto:[email protected]>, <mkjekyll@...>
>>             <mailto:mkjekyll@...> wrote :
>>
>>             Hi Ole,
>>
>>             Why u instead of V?
>>             Yes the inductor is a current source and acts as a
>>             current flywheel, good metaphor. 
>>
>>             Can you explain the fabled flux capacitor of Faraday and
>>             what may indeed be considered as such if one uses plasma
>>             states for instance? 
>>
>>             On 1/25/2019 1:33 PM, onielsen@... <mailto:onielsen@...>
>>             [EVGRAY] wrote:
>>
>>>                  
>>>
>>>                 Hi Norman, Mick,
>>>
>>>                 "...a reverse current is being induced into the iron
>>>                 core coil with the reverse polarity."
>>>                 The current continues in the same direction while
>>>                 the voltage or tension changes sign. The current
>>>                 can't be stopped or having its direction changed in
>>>                 a jump as it is always continuous. It would be like
>>>                 immediately stopping or changing the direction of a
>>>                 running flywheel. The force required or given off is
>>>                 like the voltage when speaking coils. The voltage or
>>>                 force will be of infinite size if the change happens
>>>                 in an instant. The current starts decreasing from
>>>                 whatever value it has at the disruption. Only how
>>>                 fast is related to the size of the induced voltage
>>>                 (u = L x di/dt) where u is the voltage, L is the
>>>                 inductance of the coil, i is the current and t is
>>>                 time. di/dt is the slope of the current.
>>>
>>>                 Regards
>>>                 Ole
>>>
>>>
>>>                 ---In [email protected]
>>>                 <mailto:[email protected]>, <nwootan@...>
>>>                 <mailto:nwootan@...> wrote :
>>>
>>>                 Mick, first envision a North-South magnetic poles
>>>                 embedded in flywheel. When the North-South magnets
>>>                 bridge the first two poles of the stator (rotation)
>>>                 a forward going current is induced into iron core
>>>                 coil and at same time charges up condenser to max.
>>>                 Important note here is that the impedance of coil is
>>>                 LC matched to the value of the condenser.   When the
>>>                 North-South magnets move over to the middle and last
>>>                 poles, breaker points open and at same time a
>>>                 reverse current is being induced into the iron core
>>>                 coil with the reverse polarity, the condenser
>>>                 discharges through coil windings to frame ground.
>>>                 With the condenser being charged via the forward
>>>                 going current, 1st step, when it discharges into
>>>                 coil a reverse current is being induced by moving
>>>                 magnets. In effect you have opposing currents,
>>>                 opposite polarity, (BUCKING-OPPOSED)  which cause a
>>>                 miniature magnetic flux annihilation event and a
>>>                 MAGNETO-ELECTRIC, micro EMP event. That is the
>>>                 reason the old magnetos had such a powerful spark
>>>                 even when you turned them by hand at super low
>>>                 RPM.    I worked on thousands of them on my magneto
>>>                 test bench.  Norm
>>>
>>>                 On 1/25/2019 9:20 AM, Mick mkjekyll@...
>>>                 <mailto:mkjekyll@...> [EVGRAY] wrote:
>>>
>>>>                      
>>>>
>>>>                     Norm,
>>>>
>>>>                     So this is the same effect from the 3 pole
>>>>                     magneto you showed us, when the cap discharges
>>>>                     during the collapsing flyback pulse and
>>>>                     compresses the delta?
>>>>
>>>>                     Were three poles used in parallel in order to
>>>>                     make sure the iron was fully saturated even at
>>>>                     low speed in the old magneto?
>>>>
>>>>                     On 1/25/2019 9:35 AM, Norman Wootan nwootan@...
>>>>                     <mailto:nwootan@...> [EVGRAY] wrote:
>>>>>                      
>>>>>
>>>>>                     Your quote, feed it a reverse potential as
>>>>>                     voltage is maximal peaking and you have a
>>>>>                     mother of an EMP neutral spike on your hands
>>>>>                     !       Yeeeeeeaaaaah!  Hector my friend, you
>>>>>                     got it exactly right. In all my experience
>>>>>                     with old time magnetos, this is exactly how
>>>>>                     the conderser discharge through the primary
>>>>>                     windings happens with reverse polarity.  Bang,
>>>>>                     you get a sharp crack spark discharge in the
>>>>>                     bright blue wave lengths.  Not a measily 
>>>>>                     orange spark without any zip to it.  The 5HP
>>>>>                     compressor, EMP test I did works this way.
>>>>>
>>>>>                     On 1/25/2019 6:35 AM, arkresearch@...
>>>>>                     <mailto:arkresearch@...> [EVGRAY] wrote:
>>>>>>                      
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                     If you short a coil current becomes maximal
>>>>>>                     voltage stays lag at zero upon max core
>>>>>>                     saturation , then at short cut off ,voltage
>>>>>>                     becomes leading and maximal as current drop
>>>>>>                     to zero ... basic RF neutral spike dynamics !
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                     feed it a reverse potential as voltage is
>>>>>>                     maximal peaking and you have a mother of an
>>>>>>                     EMP neutral spike on your hands ! 
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                     (H)   other methods are applicable ,,, rotary
>>>>>>                     is best for simplicity ,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                     ---In [email protected]
>>>>>>                     <mailto:[email protected]>,
>>>>>>                     <konehead@...> <mailto:konehead@...> wrote :
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                     Hi Mick
>>>>>>                     "would require shorting to saturate the core
>>>>>>                     from passing a magnet"
>>>>>>                     Did you mean:
>>>>>>                     "would require shorting to saturate the core
>>>>>>                     from a passing magnet" ?
>>>>>>                     I don't know something else?
>>>>>>                     Also wouldn't a shorted coil become rf
>>>>>>                     transmitter not so much an antenna?
>>>>>>                     Anyways still confused but just half way
>>>>>>                     confused now..
>>>>>>                     Kone
>>>
>

Yep!!!

The principle finished the rest of the period .
He sat there with a yard stick smacking it on the desk when we would start!
Shop class was canceled the rest of the week.
Then for two more weeks they brought in the French teacher , large breasts and long legs.
Hour glass figure, straight out of Quebec.  It got back to being serious then!
Then the original teacher came back, he wore turtle necks there for awhile!

  hahahahhaha



________________________________
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of [email protected] [EVGRAY] <[email protected]>
Sent: January 26, 2019 12:41 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [EVGRAY] Re: Gary Porter looper ready to bideo lnk [1 At



Yep ! i told Ash to never run RV wile naked  ClinnnGgg !  Riiiippppp!  snap! Thund!  flap! flap! Flap!  flip! flap! flap!

You end "Transgendered" from zero to seven seconds flat!  [https://s.yimg.com/ok/u/assets/img/emoticons/emo63.gif]  [https://s.yimg.com/ok/u/assets/img/emoticons/emo29.gif] [https://s.yimg.com/ok/u/assets/img/emoticons/emo30.gif]    !

(H) [https://s.yimg.com/ok/u/assets/img/emoticons/emo31.gif]

---In [email protected], <okbart@...> wrote :


Warren,

Yes clearly known as only the wise and advanced group!  lol
While in grade 7 the wood shop teacher was showing us how to use the wood lathe.
He turned it on and reached to knock off some loose debris.
The wind from the turning lathe caught his tie , pulled it until the tie ripped.
His tie was very tight. He made some pretty colors until he could cut it off.
If we laughed we were to be sent home!!!  lol

   Warren , Bridgewater   brings me back to my childhood in memories.
I am from an area around the bottom and across the Bay. Just  up the road a step.
Alma is a sea going fishing village.  Up the road my father ran a make shift scrap/wrecking yard , about 150 -200 cars/trucks
cycling kind of thing.  When I was about 7-10 years of age he would have me strip some thing out for the carburetor ,starter,gen,alternator
and hang it with bailer twine . Then say that's for  Norms  Tornado up the road on blocks !  lol

Bart
________________________________
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of Norman Wootan nwootan@... [EVGRAY] <[email protected]>
Sent: January 26, 2019 10:27 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [EVGRAY] Re: Gary Porter looper ready to bideo lnk [1 At



Warren, their main HQ is in Wisconsin but they may have had a plant in Canada.  Peterborough, Ontario<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peterborough,_Ontario> - Johnson/Evinrude Outboards (Closed in 1990)   Made Ryan lawnmowers.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outboard_Marine_Corporation    Oh, Warren, Bert Pool sent you this.

Tool definitions

SKILL SAW: A portable cutting tool used to make boards too short.



BELT SANDER: An electric sanding tool commonly used to convert minor touch-up jobs into major refinishing jobs.



WIRE WHEEL: Cleans paint off bolts and then throws them somewhere under the workbench with the speed of light. Also removes fingerprints and hard-earned calluses from fingers in about the time  takes you to say, -----------. Will easily wind a tee shirt off your back.



DRILL PRESS: A tall upright machine useful for suddenly snatching flat metal bar stock out of your hands so that it smacks you in the chest and flings your beer across the room, denting the freshly-painted project which you had carefully set in the corner where nothing could get to it.



Channel Locks: Used to round off bolt heads. Sometimes used in the creation of blood-blisters.



HACKSAW: One of a family of cutting tools built on the Ouija board principle. It transforms human energy into a crooked, unpredictable motion, and the more you attempt to influence its course, the more dismal your future becomes.



VISE-GRIPS: Generally used after pliers to completely round off bolt heads. If nothing else is available, they can also be used to transfer intense welding heat to the palm of your hand. (Also, commonly called "Channel Changers" on TV's of the 1950's with knobs that were stripped out or lost when you were fighting with one of your siblings.)



OXYGEN/ACETYLENE TORCH: Used almost entirely for igniting various flammable objects in your shop and creating a fire. Also handy for igniting the grease inside the wheel hub out of which you want to remove a bearing race.



TABLE SAW: A large stationary power tool commonly used to launch wood projectiles for testing wall integrity. Very effective for digit removal!!



HYDRAULIC FLOOR JACK: Used for lowering an automobile to the ground after you have installed your new brake shoes, trapping the jack handle firmly under the bumper.



BAND SAW: A large stationary power saw primarily used by most shops to cut large pieces into smaller pieces that more easily fit into the trash after you cut on the inside of the line instead of the outside edge. Also excels at amputations.



TWO-TON ENGINE HOIST: A tool for testing the maximum tensile strength of all the crap you forgot to disconnect.



PHILLIPS SCREWDRIVER: Normally used to stab the vacuum seals under lids or for opening old-style paper-and-tin oil cans and splashing oil on your shirt; but can also be used, as the name implies, to strip out Phillips screw heads. (The Phillips screw was brought to market by Henry F. Phillips of Portland, Oregon and first used on the1936 Cadillac. Now you know who to blame for those stripped out heads. Yes, Phillips Lake near Baker, Oregon is also named for Henry Philllips.)



STRAIGHT SCREWDRIVER: A tool for opening paint cans. Sometimes used to convert common slotted screws into non-removable screws and butchering your palms.



PRY BAR: A tool used to crumple the metal surrounding that clip or bracket you needed to remove in order to replace a 50 cent part.



PVC PIPE CUTTER: A tool used to make plastic pipe too short.



HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent to the object you are trying to hit. Also very effective at fingernail removal.



UTILITY KNIFE: Used to open and slice through the contents of cardboard cartons delivered to your front door. Works particularly well on contents such as seats, vinyl records, liquids in plastic bottles, collector magazines, refund checks, and rubber or plastic parts. Especially useful for slicing work clothes, but only while in use. These can also be used to initiate a trip to the emergency room so a doctor can sew up the damage.



SON OF A BITCH TOOL: Any handy tool that you grab and throw across the garage while yelling 'Son of a bitch' at the top of your lungs. It is also, most often, the next tool that you will need.



DAMMIT CLIP: For us old timers, a clip used on carburetor linkage that was easy to remove but almost impossible to put back on. When it went flying to who knows where, the mechanic would say: "Dammit, where did that clip go". We learned a lot about baling wire from that experience. Usually found months or years later by pure accident...
On 1/26/2019 6:55 AM, Warren Keillor schoonersolsticemoon@...<mailto:schoonersolsticemoon@...> [EVGRAY] wrote:


Norman

Didn't Outboard Marine have a plant in Peterborough, Ontario?
They made good products.
Cheap 2 stroke lawn mower engines that wouldn't die, for instance.
Cheers Warren
Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android<https://go.onelink.me/107872968?pid=InProduct&c=Global_Internal_YGrowth_AndroidEmailSig__AndroidUsers&af_wl=ym&af_sub1=Internal&af_sub2=Global_YGrowth&af_sub3=EmailSignature>

On Sat, 26 Jan 2019 at 6:35 AM, Norman Wootan nwootan@...<mailto:nwootan@...> [EVGRAY]
<[email protected]><mailto:[email protected]> wrote:


Sorry Ole, for I have to stick with Tesla on the ALTERNATING CURRENT.   https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternating_current

A two stroke outboard motor with magneto running at 3600 RPM has a commutation rate of 60 Hz same as the AC 60Hz line freq.   When I was a repair technician for 7 years with Outboard Marine Corp, I got to see a magneto instrumented in a lab with scope leads to enable viewing the  voltage and current traces during the magneto cycle. During the 1st step, N-S PMs passing poles 1 and 2 of an E frame armature there was induced a forward current and a positive voltage of up to 450V with a current trace clearly showing the knee of the BH curve indicating the saturation of the iron at peak positive induced voltage/current. As Kone pointed out, this is a short circuited primary winding cause one end of winding is frame grounded and the other end of winding is grounded via the closed breaker points.    As you pointed out, current does not like to be stopped and electrons do have inertia so the condenser acts as a shock absorber to take the current surge at point opening and also prevent arcing in the breaker. the accumulated charge in the condenser at circuit opening is up to 450VDC positive.   When the breaker points opened there was a straight down, negative going high magnitude negative spike off scope scale. Remember that when the breaker points open the PMs are now inducing a reverse polarity voltage and current into poles 2 and 3 of the E core.  I guess that Outboard Marine was correct in using the E frame coil stator for it produced an excellent and powerful ignition  source.  Since then we have graduated to the Capacitive discharge type of ignition systems.

[alt]

On 1/25/2019 12:33 PM, onielsen@...<mailto:onielsen@...> [EVGRAY] wrote:


Hi Norman, Mick,

"...a reverse current is being induced into the iron core coil with the reverse polarity."
The current continues in the same direction while the voltage or tension changes sign. The current can't be stopped or having its direction changed in a jump as it is always continuous. It would be like immediately stopping or changing the direction of a running flywheel. The force required or given off is like the voltage when speaking coils. The voltage or force will be of infinite size if the change happens in an instant. The current starts decreasing from whatever value it has at the disruption. Only how fast is related to the size of the induced voltage (u = L x di/dt) where u is the voltage, L is the inductance of the coil, i is the current and t is time. di/dt is the slope of the current.

Regards
Ole


---In [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>, <nwootan@...><mailto:nwootan@...> wrote :


Mick, first envision a North-South magnetic poles embedded in flywheel. When the North-South magnets bridge the first two poles of the stator (rotation) a forward going current is induced into iron core coil and at same time charges up condenser to max. Important note here is that the impedance of coil is LC matched to the value of the condenser.   When the North-South magnets move over to the middle and last poles, breaker points open and at same time a reverse current is being induced into the iron core coil with the reverse polarity, the condenser discharges through coil windings to frame ground. With the condenser being charged via the forward going current, 1st step, when it discharges into coil a reverse current is being induced by moving magnets. In effect you have opposing currents, opposite polarity, (BUCKING-OPPOSED)  which cause a miniature magnetic flux annihilation event and a MAGNETO-ELECTRIC, micro EMP event. That is the reason the old magnetos had such a powerful spark even when you turned them by hand at super low RPM.    I worked on thousands of them on my magneto test bench.  Norm

On 1/25/2019 9:20 AM, Mick mkjekyll@...<mailto:mkjekyll@...> [EVGRAY] wrote:


Norm,

So this is the same effect from the 3 pole magneto you showed us, when the cap discharges during the collapsing flyback pulse and compresses the delta?

Were three poles used in parallel in order to make sure the iron was fully saturated even at low speed in the old magneto?

On 1/25/2019 9:35 AM, Norman Wootan nwootan@...<mailto:nwootan@...> [EVGRAY] wrote:


Your quote, feed it a reverse potential as voltage is maximal peaking and you have a mother of an EMP neutral spike on your hands !       Yeeeeeeaaaaah!  Hector my friend, you got it exactly right. In all my experience with old time magnetos, this is exactly how the conderser discharge through the primary windings happens with reverse polarity.  Bang, you get a sharp crack spark discharge in the bright blue wave lengths.  Not a measily  orange spark without any zip to it.  The 5HP compressor, EMP test I did works this way.

On 1/25/2019 6:35 AM, arkresearch@...<mailto:arkresearch@...> [EVGRAY] wrote:


If you short a coil current becomes maximal voltage stays lag at zero upon max core saturation , then at short cut off ,voltage becomes leading and maximal as current drop to zero ... basic RF neutral spike dynamics !

feed it a reverse potential as voltage is maximal peaking and you have a mother of an EMP neutral spike on your hands !

(H)   other methods are applicable ,,, rotary is best for simplicity , [https://s.yimg.com/ok/u/assets/img/emoticons/emo15.gif]

[https://s.yimg.com/ok/u/assets/img/emoticons/emo14.gif]




---In [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>, <konehead@...><mailto:konehead@...> wrote :

Hi Mick
"would require shorting to saturate the core from passing a magnet"
Did you mean:
"would require shorting to saturate the core from a passing magnet" ?
I don't know something else?
Also wouldn't a shorted coil become rf transmitter not so much an antenna?
Anyways still confused but just half way confused now..
Kone

MickI have found the same DC motor able to go from 100 rpm to 10.000, if the balance, and bearings, are good.
You may get a minor furnace at the brushes, at higher voltages though.For this, put a bridge rectifier of 1000 volts, AC legs down across the brushes, sending the DC out to somewhere useful, solving the brush burnout.Cheers Warren
Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
 
  On Sat, 26 Jan 2019 at 3:00 PM, Mick [email protected] [EVGRAY]<[email protected]> wrote:       
 

Hector, 
 
 
What speed DC motor works really well for this 1800, 3600?  and are higher voltage motors any better than the lower voltage, or vis versa?  
 Lets say if the end game is building something serious but somewhat compact and reliable with enough output to get one under some serious surveillance.
 
I imagine the higher the RPM the less necessary larger caps.
 
 On 1/26/2019 12:26 PM, [email protected] [EVGRAY] wrote:
  
    

 Have the capacitor charge and at its null neutral discharge it with the non reflecting diode plug method , say for 9 phases 18 diodes , 18 capacitors and 18 trigger scr switches.
 
 remember that i had given this in segments each segment has specific applications and effects .
 
 assemble them and you have year 2500 ZPE technology .
 
 list of basic things, way to capture an RE signal and transfer it to a JOULE potential as a dc voltage in a capacitor.  
 
 Way to discharge this potential with no reflection to source ..
 
 relate to Normans neutral spike and you have it all ! 
 
 OU is transformation taking energy from one domain and converting it to another .
 
  
 
 (H)  
 
 ---In [email protected], <schoonersolsticemoon@...> wrote :
 
 
 Hector Is it then better to rectify the AC as soon as it is made at the coil, so that it can be combined as a high current DC, with the product of the other coils in parallel? Buffering this in a capacitor, then inverting it, if one wants AC, that can be then changed to the voltage output, one may want? The trick is to have a simple stupid
 Inverter that has no brain that shuts it off, when high, or low signals, are recieved, due to fluctuations in the power. I used deep cycle 6 volt batteries, instead of a capacitor, but would rather not, if possible to replace them. The do seem to suck up any signal coming to them, though, and make it tame. Cheers Warren
 Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
 
 
  On Sat, 26 Jan 2019 at 7:13 AM, arkresearch@... [EVGRAY] <[email protected]> wrote:          

 In RV triple flux capacitor was used to excite alternator  ,rectified at WYE center to get DC 
 
 
 
 
 
  in multi phase WYE DC motor 
 you have an 3x3 flux impedance (9 coils) within a common WYE center  .
 
 can use 9 capacitors 18 diode bridge  to play ...use 40 phases make that 40 caps
 80 diode bridge to dc conversion adding the 40 coil shorting gates to the coils  . 
 
 
 (H)
 
 
 
 ---In [email protected], <mkjekyll@...> wrote :
 
 
  
Hi Ole,
 
Why u instead of V? 
 Yes the inductor is a current source and acts as a current flywheel, good metaphor.  
 
 Can you explain the fabled flux capacitor of Faraday and what may indeed be considered as such if one uses plasma states for instance?  
 
 On 1/25/2019 1:33 PM, onielsen@... [EVGRAY] wrote:
  
  
    
Hi Norman, Mick,
 
 "...a reverse current is being induced into the iron core coil with the reverse polarity."
 The current continues in the same direction while the voltage or tension changes sign. The current can't be stopped or having its direction changed in a jump as it is always continuous. It would be like immediately stopping or changing the direction of a running flywheel. The force required or given off is like the voltage when speaking coils. The voltage or force will be of infinite size if the change happens in an instant. The current starts decreasing from whatever value it has at the disruption. Only how fast is related to the size of the induced voltage (u = L x di/dt) where u is the voltage, L is the inductance of the coil, i is the current and t is time. di/dt is the slope of the current.
 
 Regards
 Ole
 
 
 ---In [email protected], <nwootan@...> wrote :
 
 
  
Mick, first envision a North-South magnetic poles embedded in flywheel. When the North-South magnets bridge the first two poles of the stator (rotation) a forward going current is induced into iron core coil and at same time charges up condenser to max. Important note here is that the impedance of coil is LC matched to the value of the condenser.   When the North-South magnets move over to the middle and last poles, breaker points open and at same time a reverse current is being induced into the iron core coil with the reverse polarity, the condenser discharges through coil windings to frame ground. With the condenser being charged via the forward going current, 1st step, when it discharges into coil a reverse current is being induced by moving magnets. In effect you have opposing currents, opposite polarity, (BUCKING-OPPOSED)  which cause a miniature magnetic flux annihilation event and a MAGNETO-ELECTRIC, micro EMP event. That is the reason the old magnetos had such a powerful spark even when you turned them by hand at super low RPM.    I worked on thousands of them on my magneto test bench.  Norm
 
 On 1/25/2019 9:20 AM, Mick mkjekyll@... [EVGRAY] wrote:
  
  
    
 
 
Norm,
 
So this is the same effect from the 3 pole magneto you showed us, when the cap discharges during the collapsing flyback pulse and compresses the delta?
 
Were three poles used in parallel in order to make sure the iron was fully saturated even at low speed in the old magneto?
 
 On 1/25/2019 9:35 AM, Norman Wootan nwootan@... [EVGRAY] wrote:
  
    
 
 
Your quote, feed it a reverse potential as voltage is maximal peaking and you have a mother of an EMP neutral spike on your hands !       Yeeeeeeaaaaah!  Hector my friend, you got it exactly right. In all my experience with old time magnetos, this is exactly how the conderser discharge through the primary windings happens with reverse polarity.  Bang, you get a sharp crack spark discharge in the bright blue wave lengths.  Not a measily  orange spark without any zip to it.  The 5HP compressor, EMP test I did works this way.
 
 On 1/25/2019 6:35 AM, arkresearch@... [EVGRAY] wrote:
  
    
If you short a coil current becomes maximal voltage stays lag at zero upon max core saturation , then at short cut off ,voltage becomes leading and maximal as current drop to zero ... basic RF neutral spike dynamics !
 
 feed it a reverse potential as voltage is maximal peaking and you have a mother of an EMP neutral spike on your hands !  
 
 (H)   other methods are applicable ,,, rotary is best for simplicity , 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 ---In [email protected], <konehead@...> wrote :
 
 Hi Mick
 "would require shorting to saturate the core from passing a magnet"
 Did you mean:
 "would require shorting to saturate the core from a passing magnet" ?
 I don't know something else?
 Also wouldn't a shorted coil become rf transmitter not so much an antenna?
 Anyways still confused but just half way confused now..
 Kone   
  
  
 
   
 
        
 
    
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You just need a set of brushes (2) that follow (existing) one's the same commutator? (no sparks this way?)
So I don't know the exact recovery(80%?) of the BEMF but you should be able to get both,the motor and the gen's BEMF and power the motor coils? JB never finished the project...

    On Friday, January 25, 2019, 8:45:36 a.m. MST, [email protected] [EVGRAY] <[email protected]> wrote:  
 
     
Thanks Kone. Starting to make some sense now. Resembles the lockridge motor generator that I have been working on for a few years. Havent been able to pick up the back spike on it yet. Its there but cant collect it.
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Hi Machinatous and all, 
From what I understand, to 10kw for something like Hector's brushed dc motor WYE rewind with the added brushes, H proposes not just one "extra" brush (besides the existing "primary" brush that feeds current into motor winds)
But there is two extra brushes.
One brush connects a steering diode , or a halgbridhe or full wave bridge that steers out and recovers the flyback spike in a delayed timing fashion, into caps.
My experience is this brush should have same pulse width to tbis "connection" as the primary brush has for its connection to feed dc current to tbe motor winds....so let's say 2msmotor pulse, so also 2ms to the time the backemf/flyback recoverybrush will be connected.
However you pu a little bit of delay time in this second "recovery" brush's timing...about 5 degrees retarded, like an echo to the primary pulse.
There should be a bit of overlap in timing where both primary pulse and recovery of backemf/flyback happen at same time. Too.
Sequence like this for swirching:

Primary pulse only closed / 
primary pulse AND recovery connection  both closed/
Primary pulse opens (backspike mamifest)/
Recovery connection opens/

That is function of the "2nd brush" but now there is 3rd brush too, and the purpose of this brush is to sort circuit the motor coil " into itself" so simply pit conne t the two leads of the motor coil together.
This shoul probably happen after the second brush does its job, and the motor coil and core are still excited a bit from the initial motor coil pulse, and this would be at " sinewave voltage peak" period if you were to spin motor by hand and see where rotor magnets will induce maximum voltage...
So this shorting event from 3rd brush has the hyper ringing it creates have this power extracted by fwbr AC. legs across the motor coil, with dc into unloaded cap. ..so it goes; , power input,flyback recovery, short...
Kone