Body
Ole,
I think you may be overlooking the fact that the magnet north is passing
over the coil then the magnet south is passing over...
On 1/26/2019 11:21 AM, [email protected] [EVGRAY] wrote:
>
>
> Hi Norman,
>
> For generating high voltage the flyback pulse formed by abruptly
> stopping the current is used. At input the voltage and current have
> the same sign meaning energy enters the coil which stores that energy
> as magnetic field energy. At output the power becomes negative meaning
> either the voltage or the current has to change sign. If both changes
> sign then power still enters the coil. Disrupting the current induces
> the flyback pulse where the voltage changes sign meaning the magnetic
> field strength is decreasing. The rate of decrease determines the
> voltage induced. If the energy isn't dissipated like when having
> capacitance in the circuit the current changes direction after the
> energy has been stored in the capacitor as electric field energy by
> charging the capacitor. Discharging the capacitor makes the current
> change sign while the voltage can't be discontinuous in a capacitor
> (no jumps allowed). The voltage in a capacitor is like the current in
> an inductor and the current in a capacitor is like the voltage in an
> inductor. One can be discontinuous while the other must be continuous
> by making no jumps. This is what makes them follow each other's tail
> doing oscillations when connected together and not having enough
> damping (resistance).
>
> Regards
> Ole
>
>
> ---In [email protected], <nwootan@...> wrote :
>
> Sorry Ole, for I have to stick with Tesla on the ALTERNATING
> CURRENT. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternating_current
>
> A two stroke outboard motor with magneto running at 3600 RPM has a
> commutation rate of 60 Hz same as the AC 60Hz line freq. When I was
> a repair technician for 7 years with Outboard Marine Corp, I got to
> see a magneto instrumented in a lab with scope leads to enable viewing
> the voltage and current traces during the magneto cycle. During the
> 1st step, N-S PMs passing poles 1 and 2 of an E frame armature there
> was induced a forward current and a positive voltage of up to 450V
> with a current trace clearly showing the knee of the BH curve
> indicating the saturation of the iron at peak positive induced
> voltage/current. As Kone pointed out, this is a short circuited
> primary winding cause one end of winding is frame grounded and the
> other end of winding is grounded via the closed breaker points. As
> you pointed out, current does not like to be stopped and electrons do
> have inertia so the condenser acts as a shock absorber to take the
> current surge at point opening and also prevent arcing in the breaker.
> the accumulated charge in the condenser at circuit opening is up to
> 450VDC positive. When the breaker points opened there was a straight
> down, negative going high magnitude negative spike off scope scale.
> Remember that when the breaker points open the PMs are now inducing a
> reverse polarity voltage and current into poles 2 and 3 of the E
> core. I guess that Outboard Marine was correct in using the E frame
> coil stator for it produced an excellent and powerful ignition
> source. Since then we have graduated to the Capacitive discharge type
> of ignition systems.
>
> On 1/25/2019 12:33 PM, onielsen@... <mailto:onielsen@...> [EVGRAY] wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Hi Norman, Mick,
>>
>> "...a reverse current is being induced into the iron core coil
>> with the reverse polarity."
>> The current continues in the same direction while the voltage or
>> tension changes sign. The current can't be stopped or having its
>> direction changed in a jump as it is always continuous. It would
>> be like immediately stopping or changing the direction of a
>> running flywheel. The force required or given off is like the
>> voltage when speaking coils. The voltage or force will be of
>> infinite size if the change happens in an instant. The current
>> starts decreasing from whatever value it has at the disruption.
>> Only how fast is related to the size of the induced voltage (u =
>> L x di/dt) where u is the voltage, L is the inductance of the
>> coil, i is the current and t is time. di/dt is the slope of the
>> current.
>>
>> Regards
>> Ole
>>
>>
>> ---In [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>,
>> <nwootan@...> <mailto:nwootan@...> wrote :
>>
>> Mick, first envision a North-South magnetic poles embedded in
>> flywheel. When the North-South magnets bridge the first two poles
>> of the stator (rotation) a forward going current is induced into
>> iron core coil and at same time charges up condenser to max.
>> Important note here is that the impedance of coil is LC matched
>> to the value of the condenser. When the North-South magnets
>> move over to the middle and last poles, breaker points open and
>> at same time a reverse current is being induced into the iron
>> core coil with the reverse polarity, the condenser discharges
>> through coil windings to frame ground. With the condenser being
>> charged via the forward going current, 1st step, when it
>> discharges into coil a reverse current is being induced by moving
>> magnets. In effect you have opposing currents, opposite polarity,
>> (BUCKING-OPPOSED) which cause a miniature magnetic flux
>> annihilation event and a MAGNETO-ELECTRIC, micro EMP event. That
>> is the reason the old magnetos had such a powerful spark even
>> when you turned them by hand at super low RPM. I worked on
>> thousands of them on my magneto test bench. Norm
>>
>> On 1/25/2019 9:20 AM, Mick mkjekyll@... <mailto:mkjekyll@...>
>> [EVGRAY] wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Norm,
>>>
>>> So this is the same effect from the 3 pole magneto you
>>> showed us, when the cap discharges during the collapsing
>>> flyback pulse and compresses the delta?
>>>
>>> Were three poles used in parallel in order to make sure the
>>> iron was fully saturated even at low speed in the old magneto?
>>>
>>> On 1/25/2019 9:35 AM, Norman Wootan nwootan@...
>>> <mailto:nwootan@...> [EVGRAY] wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Your quote, feed it a reverse potential as voltage is
>>>> maximal peaking and you have a mother of an EMP neutral
>>>> spike on your hands ! Yeeeeeeaaaaah! Hector my
>>>> friend, you got it exactly right. In all my experience with
>>>> old time magnetos, this is exactly how the conderser
>>>> discharge through the primary windings happens with reverse
>>>> polarity. Bang, you get a sharp crack spark discharge in
>>>> the bright blue wave lengths. Not a measily orange spark
>>>> without any zip to it. The 5HP compressor, EMP test I did
>>>> works this way.
>>>>
>>>> On 1/25/2019 6:35 AM, arkresearch@...
>>>> <mailto:arkresearch@...> [EVGRAY] wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> If you short a coil current becomes maximal voltage stays
>>>>> lag at zero upon max core saturation , then at short cut
>>>>> off ,voltage becomes leading and maximal as current drop
>>>>> to zero ... basic RF neutral spike dynamics !
>>>>>
>>>>> feed it a reverse potential as voltage is maximal peaking
>>>>> and you have a mother of an EMP neutral spike on your
>>>>> hands !
>>>>>
>>>>> (H) other methods are applicable ,,, rotary is best for
>>>>> simplicity ,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ---In [email protected]
>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>, <konehead@...>
>>>>> <mailto:konehead@...> wrote :
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Mick
>>>>> "would require shorting to saturate the core from passing
>>>>> a magnet"
>>>>> Did you mean:
>>>>> "would require shorting to saturate the core from a
>>>>> passing magnet" ?
>>>>> I don't know something else?
>>>>> Also wouldn't a shorted coil become rf transmitter not so
>>>>> much an antenna?
>>>>> Anyways still confused but just half way confused now..
>>>>> Kone
>>
>