General info!

Norm, With all due respect I grasp the magnetic diode concept quite well, this was not the question.
 The question was could you elaborate on your setup, this was all, no need for going on the offensive.

Mick!  My problem here is that we have discussed this subject many times 
and everyone just goes back to the same old projects and do nothing with 
the information given.  To each his own so to speak.  Electronics 101.  
Tesla Fire, you want to generate a negative plasma at very high voltage 
via a magnetic spark gap yielding unidirectional DC pulse train with the 
Tesla recommended rest state of .0062 millisecond between pulses,  
longitudinal pulses. I had two setups that I used. First was a X-ray oil 
filled tank power supply, of Israel manufacture which had a tank top 
that was easily removed to get to the guts. I reversed the full wave 
bridge (60KV) to give me a negative output at the normal + anode 
terminal. Positive side of bridge was grounded which gave me the 60KVDC 
output for negative ion wind generator. I also used this power supply 
for negative ion heat barrier experiments.  The other setup was a 12KV 
potential transformer and full wave bridge to give me the HVDC potential 
I needed.  Very high voltage negative discharges yield beautiful plasma. 
I used a mechanical relay (solid state devices cannot survive here) to 
gate the high voltage DC pulses through the powerful horn spark gal 
which insured a pure unidirectional longitudinal pulse train with the 
rest period specified between pulses.   I find it very interesting that 
experiments with negative ion wind have all but disappeared from the 
internet. The POWERS TO BE know that negative ionization leads to such 
thing as COUNTERBARRY (anti-gravity) and cooling. Tom Bearden told me a 
lone time ago back in the early 80s not to even mention this subject 
cause you will end up a DEAD DUCK.  Build your own experimental circuit 
from this article. I had cases of brand new flyback transformers that I 
got through salvage. Circuit is duck soup simple.  I have an ion wind 
generator running constantly in my home.

https://fear-of-lightning.wonderhowto.com/how-to/high-voltage-happiness-make-negative-ion-generator-0133359/
https://www.circuitlib.com/index.php/schematics/product/52-negative-ion-generator/category_pathway-33
http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-Make-a-Negative-Ion-air-ionizer/
Have fun!    Norm

On 7/7/2018 12:12 AM, [email protected] [EVGRAY] wrote:
>
> Norm,
>
> With all due respect I grasp the magnetic diode concept quite well, 
> this was not the question.
> The question was could you elaborate on your setup, this was all, no 
> need for going on the offensive.
>

http://www.halexandria.org/dward079.htm     BTW! The old almost gone 
CRTs computer & Television sets were a huge generator of positive ions 
in your living environment.   (BAD)


On 7/7/2018 6:52 AM, Norman Wootan wrote:
>
> Mick!  My problem here is that we have discussed this subject many 
> times and everyone just goes back to the same old projects and do 
> nothing with the information given.  To each his own so to speak.  
> Electronics 101.  Tesla Fire, you want to generate a negative plasma 
> at very high voltage via a magnetic spark gap yielding unidirectional 
> DC pulse train with the Tesla recommended rest state of .0062 
> millisecond between pulses, longitudinal pulses. I had two setups that 
> I used. First was a X-ray oil filled tank power supply, of Israel 
> manufacture which had a tank top that was easily removed to get to the 
> guts. I reversed the full wave bridge (60KV) to give me a negative 
> output at the normal + anode terminal. Positive side of bridge was 
> grounded which gave me the 60KVDC output for negative ion wind 
> generator. I also used this power supply for negative ion heat barrier 
> experiments.  The other setup was a 12KV potential transformer and 
> full wave bridge to give me the HVDC potential I needed.  Very high 
> voltage negative discharges yield beautiful plasma. I used a 
> mechanical relay (solid state devices cannot survive here) to gate the 
> high voltage DC pulses through the powerful horn spark gal which 
> insured a pure unidirectional longitudinal pulse train with the rest 
> period specified between pulses.   I find it very interesting that 
> experiments with negative ion wind have all but disappeared from the 
> internet. The POWERS TO BE know that negative ionization leads to such 
> thing as COUNTERBARRY (anti-gravity) and cooling. Tom Bearden told me 
> a lone time ago back in the early 80s not to even mention this subject 
> cause you will end up a DEAD DUCK.  Build your own experimental 
> circuit from this article. I had cases of brand new flyback 
> transformers that I got through salvage. Circuit is duck soup simple.  
> I have an ion wind generator running constantly in my home.
>
> https://fear-of-lightning.wonderhowto.com/how-to/high-voltage-happiness-make-negative-ion-generator-0133359/
> https://www.circuitlib.com/index.php/schematics/product/52-negative-ion-generator/category_pathway-33
> http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-Make-a-Negative-Ion-air-ionizer/
> Have fun!    Norm
>
> On 7/7/2018 12:12 AM, [email protected] [EVGRAY] wrote:
>>
>> Norm,
>>
>> With all due respect I grasp the magnetic diode concept quite well, 
>> this was not the question.
>> The question was could you elaborate on your setup, this was all, no 
>> need for going on the offensive.
>> 
>

https://fear-of-lightning.wonderhowto.com/how-to/making-electromagnetic-weapons-emp-generator-part-one-0133056/

BTW! The negative pulse is the dominate feature of the EMP generator!


On 7/7/2018 7:05 AM, Norman Wootan wrote:
>
> http://www.halexandria.org/dward079.htm BTW! The old almost gone CRTs 
> computer & Television sets were a huge generator of positive ions in 
> your living environment.   (BAD)
>
>
> On 7/7/2018 6:52 AM, Norman Wootan wrote:
>>
>> Mick!  My problem here is that we have discussed this subject many 
>> times and everyone just goes back to the same old projects and do 
>> nothing with the information given.  To each his own so to speak.  
>> Electronics 101.  Tesla Fire, you want to generate a negative plasma 
>> at very high voltage via a magnetic spark gap yielding unidirectional 
>> DC pulse train with the Tesla recommended rest state of .0062 
>> millisecond between pulses,  longitudinal pulses. I had two setups 
>> that I used. First was a X-ray oil filled tank power supply, of 
>> Israel manufacture which had a tank top that was easily removed to 
>> get to the guts. I reversed the full wave bridge (60KV) to give me a 
>> negative output at the normal + anode terminal. Positive side of 
>> bridge was grounded which gave me the 60KVDC output for negative ion 
>> wind generator. I also used this power supply for negative ion heat 
>> barrier experiments.  The other setup was a 12KV potential 
>> transformer and full wave bridge to give me the HVDC potential I 
>> needed.  Very high voltage negative discharges yield beautiful 
>> plasma. I used a mechanical relay (solid state devices cannot survive 
>> here) to gate the high voltage DC pulses through the powerful horn 
>> spark gal which insured a pure unidirectional longitudinal pulse 
>> train with the rest period specified between pulses.   I find it very 
>> interesting that experiments with negative ion wind have all but 
>> disappeared from the internet. The POWERS TO BE know that negative 
>> ionization leads to such thing as COUNTERBARRY (anti-gravity) and 
>> cooling. Tom Bearden told me a lone time ago back in the early 80s 
>> not to even mention this subject cause you will end up a DEAD DUCK.  
>> Build your own experimental circuit from this article. I had cases of 
>> brand new flyback transformers that I got through salvage. Circuit is 
>> duck soup simple.  I have an ion wind generator running constantly in 
>> my home.
>>
>> https://fear-of-lightning.wonderhowto.com/how-to/high-voltage-happiness-make-negative-ion-generator-0133359/
>> https://www.circuitlib.com/index.php/schematics/product/52-negative-ion-generator/category_pathway-33
>> http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-Make-a-Negative-Ion-air-ionizer/
>> Have fun!    Norm
>>
>> On 7/7/2018 12:12 AM, [email protected] [EVGRAY] wrote:
>>>
>>> Norm,
>>>
>>> With all due respect I grasp the magnetic diode concept quite well, 
>>> this was not the question.
>>> The question was could you elaborate on your setup, this was all, no 
>>> need for going on the offensive.
>>> 
>>
>

Mick!  A lot to cover here.   How about starting off with reading an 
article I wrote back in about 1996 regarding our understanding of HEAT.

What is Heat #3

For about 10 years I have been studying the effects of

heating and cooling associated with the phase change of

liquids with the hope of building a simple generator of

electrical power around the phenomenon.The reason for this

interest is based on the theory that energy can be extracted

from the ambient background via thermal differentials.My

line of thinking really took off back when I experimented

with the all too familiar Peltier junction devices found in

electronic cooling devices.Would you believe that most

people do not understand how these devices move thermal

energy through a current flow across a semiconductor

junction.Historically we find that German physicist,

Thomas Seebeck back in 1820 observed that when heat was

applied to a junction of copper and steel wire that

electrical energy resulted.Later in 1834 Jean Peltier

discovered that when a direct current was applied to two

Dissimilar metals the junction got hot or cold.It was not

Until 1838 that Emil Lenz clearly showed the importance of

Both Seebeck and Peltier s discoveries by placing a drop of

Water on the junction of dissimilar metals which froze then

Melted when the polarity of the direct current was

Reversed.These discoveries remained dormant for over 100

Years because of the unavailability of semiconductor

Materials which could provide the wide temperature

Differentials.In the 1930 s semiconductor materials became

Available which revived the electric cooling principles.In

The 1960 s many companies began building spot cooling

Devices and refrigerators based on these effects using a

Junction material of bismuth-telluride. Today more advanced

Materials are used with the basic parameters of being a pore

Thermal conductor but being an excellent electrical

Conductor. The dissimilar materials must provide a high

Coefficient of voltage temperature relationship.The first

Peltier devices that I experimented with back about 10 years

ago were built by Marlow Industries here in Dallas.With a

small temperature differential across the device a weak

current with an attendant voltage was developed.Increasing

the differential provided a proportional increase in current

and voltage.About 6 years ago I posted a chart of the

wattage generated from two different size Peltier chips on

the Keely Net BBS.My curiosity was based on the puzzle of

how electron flow could move thermal energy across the

junctions and how electrical energy was produced by moving

thermal energy across the junction.This is a directly

reversible situation based on polarity.

Now let us look at a very familiar parallel process used in

refrigeration, cooling and heating devices employing phase

change material such as water and refrigerants.We have

always been led to believe that evaporating water provided

cooling effects which is a mechanical process. By the same

mechanical process we are provided heating effects by the

condensation of a gas back to a liquid phase change.Would

you believe that any material that undergoes a phase change

provides an attendant electrical effect.Back in 1840

Armstrong invented an electrostatic generator based on

escaping steam through insulated nozzles which provided one

of the most powerful devices of this type ever built.

Popular belief was that this was a frictional process with

the electrical output resulting from the steam friction

passing through the nozzles.After reading an old (1920 s)

Thermodynamics in Chemistry text book I realized that the

phase change of materials was an electrical phenomenon and

not purely mechanical.The atoms of the material lose or

gain electrons in the process which accounts for the

discrepancy in the energy equation when a material

transitions between phases.More energy is present after

the phase change back to the lower form or atomic state. The

text book stated that this phenomenon could not be

explained.When Jerry and I attended a Conference hosted by

Hal Puthoff down in Austin back about 6 years ago a

Physicist from Austria presented a paper on the phase change

of water and the attendant electrical phenomenon which is

totally not understood by modern science.Now my suspicions

were confirmed that phase changes of materials are an

electrostatic phenomenon, which leads us to the fundamental

question of,What is heat?We were told in theschool

that heat is the presence of energy and cool is the absence

of energy.What is the form of this energy?Let us look at

a very simple example of heating which may explain this

process.When sunlight strikes an absorbing surface it is

heated because electrons in the material are converted to

photons which are emitted in the infrared band of light

leaving the material in a net positive state or hot.The

more electrons a material loses the hotter it becomes.Now

the inverse situation is explored by evaporating some water

from the surface of a material which leaves the surface in a

net negative state or cold.Heat or cold is based on the

ion relationship in the material.When we apply a flame

(ionizing) to a material we cause the emission of photons

which is basically stripping away electrons from the atomic

structure causing a gross net positive situation to occur.

Now we are getting a picture as to how an electric current

across the Peltier junction can transport thermal energy

(ions).Since the energy is in the form of presence or

absence of electrons then it is a simple explanation as to

how the process works.All phase change processes work the

same way basically via ion transport and are not mechanical

processes which we were taught.Everythingin chemistry is

an electrical or electrostatic process at the atomic level

based on the ionized state of the atoms involved.

At a Vanguard Science Roundtable discussion several years ago

we talked about the ion wind method of fire fighting in

which ionized air will extinguish a flame because of the

cooling effects.Now we see Patents issued based on

negative ion spraying of a surface causing it to rapidly

cool because it becomes net negative charged.This is a

very efficient method of air-conditioning because an ion

generator operates at very high voltages with very little

current involved.It is possible to develop this ion

transport (thermal energy) to provide direct electrical

output from very subtle temperature differentials.Remember

that this is a direct reversible process where a thermal

differential will cause a development of current and voltage

as in the Peltier device.I hope that this dialog will

provide some food for thought out there on the Keely Net.

Please provide some feedback on this very interesting line

of experimentation.Norm




On 7/7/2018 11:55 AM, [email protected] [EVGRAY] wrote:
>
> Hi Norm,
>
> Thanks that was very enlightening specially the X-ray transformer as I 
> forgot about those rectifiers.   Have been having issues of diode 
> switching on one wire systems due to lack of current, lack of load on 
> the output, to overcome the junction cut in voltage or just burning up 
> RF diodes. Could be some Germanium power diodes are also in order to 
> be checked with the lower cut in voltage.
>
> For what it's worth I have many projects I work with so try to slim 
> down the amount of information to grind through in order to move 
> further along via the people before me who have made great strides 
> such as yourself.  I apologize if my questions seem repetitive or 
> lacking in foundation.
>
> I suppose you did not test much with a positive bias in order to 
> prevent the x-rays.
> it would be interesting to know the differences of the same 
> magnetically fractioned positive and negative.
>
> You might be surprised with what is becoming hard to find along with 
> ion wind. It is a sad state of affairs when knowledge is restricted by 
> the few.
>
> I think this may have serious karmic implications such as human 
> ascension being hindered.
>
> We have many fires now around here. I have read the patents on the ion 
> firefighting but have no idea of the effectiveness.  What did you find 
> with your barrier experiments?  Do you think with some helicopters 
> dropping battery powered charged meshes a serious fire could be 
> redirected or even attenuated?
>
> We had so much smoke two years ago I setup a cloudbuster but found 
> more than the water setting up a charge on the tubes accomplished more 
> activity vis a vis removing the smoke locally.  What was fascinating 
> is with a very small ion supply which was just a switching rectified 
> neon type supply only about 3 or 4kv would cause atmospheric changes 
> in mere minutes which was easy to see from the smoke. Negative charge 
> would suck the smoke down and a positive push it away. Did not have 
> any luck bringing big rain but I am convinced the more experienced 
> such as Smokey would have no problem with the rain part.  Actually the 
> negative may be the rain maker but it was hard to stomach with all the 
> smoke.  Fires really affect the weather system so attempting the same 
> without the fires may show better efficacy concerning rain.  In nature 
> it would seem finesse wins over force so perhaps a good number of low 
> powered meshes would work wonders as the earth could magnify the 
> effects if the meshes were setup along the proper magnetic borders of 
> high differential.
>
>
>
> ---In [email protected], <nwootan@...> wrote :
>
> Mick!  My problem here is that we have discussed this subject many 
> times and everyone just goes back to the same old projects and do 
> nothing with the information given.  To each his own so to speak.  
> Electronics 101.  Tesla Fire, you want to generate a negative plasma 
> at very high voltage via a magnetic spark gap yielding unidirectional 
> DC pulse train with the Tesla recommended rest state of .0062 
> millisecond between pulses, longitudinal pulses. I had two setups that 
> I used. First was a X-ray oil filled tank power supply, of Israel 
> manufacture which had a tank top that was easily removed to get to the 
> guts. I reversed the full wave bridge (60KV) to give me a negative 
> output at the normal + anode terminal. Positive side of bridge was 
> grounded which gave me the 60KVDC output for negative ion wind 
> generator. I also used this power supply for negative ion heat barrier 
> experiments.  The other setup was a 12KV potential transformer and 
> full wave bridge to give me the HVDC potential I needed.  Very high 
> voltage negative discharges yield beautiful plasma. I used a 
> mechanical relay (solid state devices cannot survive here) to gate the 
> high voltage DC pulses through the powerful horn spark gal which 
> insured a pure unidirectional longitudinal pulse train with the rest 
> period specified between pulses.   I find it very interesting that 
> experiments with negative ion wind have all but disappeared from the 
> internet. The POWERS TO BE know that negative ionization leads to such 
> thing as COUNTERBARRY (anti-gravity) and cooling. Tom Bearden told me 
> a lone time ago back in the early 80s not to even mention this subject 
> cause you will end up a DEAD DUCK.  Build your own experimental 
> circuit from this article. I had cases of brand new flyback 
> transformers that I got through salvage. Circuit is duck soup simple.  
> I have an ion wind generator running constantly in my home.
>
> https://fear-of-lightning.wonderhowto.com/how-to/high-voltage-happiness-make-negative-ion-generator-0133359/
> https://www.circuitlib.com/index.php/schematics/product/52-negative-ion-generator/category_pathway-33
> http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-Make-a-Negative-Ion-air-ionizer/
> Have fun!    Norm
>
> On 7/7/2018 12:12 AM, mkjekyll@... <mailto:mkjekyll@...> [EVGRAY] wrote:
>
>>     Norm,
>>
>>     With all due respect I grasp the magnetic diode concept quite
>>     well, this was not the question.
>>     The question was could you elaborate on your setup, this was all,
>>     no need for going on the offensive.
>
>

An up to date, modern example of this is : 
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/07/180706091717.htm

Back in my R&D military days, spent some time at Yuma Proving Grounds 
where the desert floor gets pretty darn hot. We were recovering 
unexploded ordnance from the range with radio controlled robotic 
vehicles. The intense heat would shut down operation of electronics 
until it was found that a HVDC negative (-) charge on the vehicle would 
effectively shield it from the intense heat. The thermal negative ion 
barrier principle. The Isralies Patented a fire fighting system which 
used a super high velocity wind nozzle which had the HVDC negative (-) 
electrodes which gave a negative wind that produced enough instant 
cooling that fuel fires were extinguished because the cooling effect 
would drop fuel below kindling temp!  Very effective.  All of this neat 
stuff has totally disappeared from your view.   Why would you even screw 
around with a positive charge spark gap knowing that positive (+) has 
heating effect and negative (-) has cooling effect. When a Tesla coil is 
effectively fired via HVDC (-) pulses the refrigeration effect is seen. 
Frost and ice have been created around Tesla coil when the surrounding 
air is heavily ionized negative causing the super cooling effect.  I 
learned to completely steer away from using solid state components 
around this type of research.  Go to the trusted vacuum tube and 
thyatron type tubes.  You will get no where with solid state devices.  I 
fell heir to a very large Pulsar 15KVA which came out of Stanford Linear 
Accelerator Lab (SLAC) It used two real exotic vacuum tubes about a foot 
tall to gate and control the output HVDC pulses used in the linear 
accelerator.    Oh!  Your mention of smoke attenuation via negative 
charge.  I installed a lot of Smoke Eaters in Club to eliminate 
cigarette smoke from the air. Basically they are real large, high volume 
negative ion generators which coagulate (clump) smoke particulate so 
that they are effectively filtered out of air stream.  All based on 
negative charge.


On 7/7/2018 12:23 PM, Norman Wootan wrote:
>
> Mick!  A lot to cover here.   How about starting off with reading an 
> article I wrote back in about 1996 regarding our understanding of HEAT.
>
> What is Heat #3
>
> For about 10 years I have been studying the effects of
>
> heating and cooling associated with the phase change of
>
> liquids with the hope of building a simple generator of
>
> electrical power around the phenomenon.The reason for this
>
> interest is based on the theory that energy can be extracted
>
> from the ambient background via thermal differentials.My
>
> line of thinking really took off back when I experimented
>
> with the all too familiar Peltier junction devices found in
>
> electronic cooling devices.Would you believe that most
>
> people do not understand how these devices move thermal
>
> energy through a current flow across a semiconductor
>
> junction.Historically we find that German physicist,
>
> Thomas Seebeck back in 1820 observed that when heat was
>
> applied to a junction of copper and steel wire that
>
> electrical energy resulted.Later in 1834 Jean Peltier
>
> discovered that when a direct current was applied to two
>
> Dissimilar metals the junction got hot or cold.It was not
>
> Until 1838 that Emil Lenz clearly showed the importance of
>
> Both Seebeck and Peltier s discoveries by placing a drop of
>
> Water on the junction of dissimilar metals which froze then
>
> Melted when the polarity of the direct current was
>
> Reversed.These discoveries remained dormant for over 100
>
> Years because of the unavailability of semiconductor
>
> Materials which could provide the wide temperature
>
> Differentials.In the 1930 s semiconductor materials became
>
> Available which revived the electric cooling principles.In
>
> The 1960 s many companies began building spot cooling
>
> Devices and refrigerators based on these effects using a
>
> Junction material of bismuth-telluride. Today more advanced
>
> Materials are used with the basic parameters of being a pore
>
> Thermal conductor but being an excellent electrical
>
> Conductor. The dissimilar materials must provide a high
>
> Coefficient of voltage temperature relationship.The first
>
> Peltier devices that I experimented with back about 10 years
>
> ago were built by Marlow Industries here in Dallas.With a
>
> small temperature differential across the device a weak
>
> current with an attendant voltage was developed.Increasing
>
> the differential provided a proportional increase in current
>
> and voltage.About 6 years ago I posted a chart of the
>
> wattage generated from two different size Peltier chips on
>
> the Keely Net BBS.My curiosity was based on the puzzle of
>
> how electron flow could move thermal energy across the
>
> junctions and how electrical energy was produced by moving
>
> thermal energy across the junction.This is a directly
>
> reversible situation based on polarity.
>
> Now let us look at a very familiar parallel process used in
>
> refrigeration, cooling and heating devices employing phase
>
> change material such as water and refrigerants.We have
>
> always been led to believe that evaporating water provided
>
> cooling effects which is a mechanical process. By the same
>
> mechanical process we are provided heating effects by the
>
> condensation of a gas back to a liquid phase change.Would
>
> you believe that any material that undergoes a phase change
>
> provides an attendant electrical effect.Back in 1840
>
> Armstrong invented an electrostatic generator based on
>
> escaping steam through insulated nozzles which provided one
>
> of the most powerful devices of this type ever built.
>
> Popular belief was that this was a frictional process with
>
> the electrical output resulting from the steam friction
>
> passing through the nozzles.After reading an old (1920 s)
>
> Thermodynamics in Chemistry text book I realized that the
>
> phase change of materials was an electrical phenomenon and
>
> not purely mechanical.The atoms of the material lose or
>
> gain electrons in the process which accounts for the
>
> discrepancy in the energy equation when a material
>
> transitions between phases.More energy is present after
>
> the phase change back to the lower form or atomic state. The
>
> text book stated that this phenomenon could not be
>
> explained.When Jerry and I attended a Conference hosted by
>
> Hal Puthoff down in Austin back about 6 years ago a
>
> Physicist from Austria presented a paper on the phase change
>
> of water and the attendant electrical phenomenon which is
>
> totally not understood by modern science.Now my suspicions
>
> were confirmed that phase changes of materials are an
>
> electrostatic phenomenon, which leads us to the fundamental
>
> question of,What is heat?We were told in theschool
>
> that heat is the presence of energy and cool is the absence
>
> of energy.What is the form of this energy?Let us look at
>
> a very simple example of heating which may explain this
>
> process.When sunlight strikes an absorbing surface it is
>
> heated because electrons in the material are converted to
>
> photons which are emitted in the infrared band of light
>
> leaving the material in a net positive state or hot.The
>
> more electrons a material loses the hotter it becomes.Now
>
> the inverse situation is explored by evaporating some water
>
> from the surface of a material which leaves the surface in a
>
> net negative state or cold.Heat or cold is based on the
>
> ion relationship in the material.When we apply a flame
>
> (ionizing) to a material we cause the emission of photons
>
> which is basically stripping away electrons from the atomic
>
> structure causing a gross net positive situation to occur.
>
> Now we are getting a picture as to how an electric current
>
> across the Peltier junction can transport thermal energy
>
> (ions).Since the energy is in the form of presence or
>
> absence of electrons then it is a simple explanation as to
>
> how the process works.All phase change processes work the
>
> same way basically via ion transport and are not mechanical
>
> processes which we were taught.Everythingin chemistry is
>
> an electrical or electrostatic process at the atomic level
>
> based on the ionized state of the atoms involved.
>
> At a Vanguard Science Roundtable discussion several years ago
>
> we talked about the ion wind method of fire fighting in
>
> which ionized air will extinguish a flame because of the
>
> cooling effects.Now we see Patents issued based on
>
> negative ion spraying of a surface causing it to rapidly
>
> cool because it becomes net negative charged.This is a
>
> very efficient method of air-conditioning because an ion
>
> generator operates at very high voltages with very little
>
> current involved.It is possible to develop this ion
>
> transport (thermal energy) to provide direct electrical
>
> output from very subtle temperature differentials.Remember
>
> that this is a direct reversible process where a thermal
>
> differential will cause a development of current and voltage
>
> as in the Peltier device.I hope that this dialog will
>
> provide some food for thought out there on the Keely Net.
>
> Please provide some feedback on this very interesting line
>
> of experimentation.Norm
>
>
>
>
> On 7/7/2018 11:55 AM, [email protected] [EVGRAY] wrote:
>>
>> Hi Norm,
>>
>> Thanks that was very enlightening specially the X-ray transformer as 
>> I forgot about those rectifiers.   Have been having issues of diode 
>> switching on one wire systems due to lack of current, lack of load on 
>> the output, to overcome the junction cut in voltage or just burning 
>> up RF diodes.  Could be some Germanium power diodes are also in order 
>> to be checked with the lower cut in voltage.
>>
>> For what it's worth I have many projects I work with so try to slim 
>> down the amount of information to grind through in order to move 
>> further along via the people before me who have made great strides 
>> such as yourself.  I apologize if my questions seem repetitive or 
>> lacking in foundation.
>>
>> I suppose you did not test much with a positive bias in order to 
>> prevent the x-rays.
>> it would be interesting to know the differences of the same 
>> magnetically fractioned positive and negative.
>>
>> You might be surprised with what is becoming hard to find along with 
>> ion wind.  It is a sad state of affairs when knowledge is restricted 
>> by the few.
>>
>> I think this may have serious karmic implications such as human 
>> ascension being hindered.
>>
>> We have many fires now around here. I have read the patents on the 
>> ion firefighting but have no idea of the effectiveness.  What did you 
>> find with your barrier experiments?  Do you think with some 
>> helicopters dropping battery powered charged meshes a serious fire 
>> could be redirected or even attenuated?
>>
>> We had so much smoke two years ago I setup a cloudbuster but found 
>> more than the water setting up a charge on the tubes accomplished 
>> more activity vis a vis removing the smoke locally.  What was 
>> fascinating is with a very small ion supply which was just a 
>> switching rectified neon type supply only about 3 or 4kv would cause 
>> atmospheric changes in mere minutes which was easy to see from the 
>> smoke. Negative charge would suck the smoke down and a positive push 
>> it away.  Did not have any luck bringing big rain but I am convinced 
>> the more experienced such as Smokey would have no problem with the 
>> rain part. Actually the negative may be the rain maker but it was 
>> hard to stomach with all the smoke.  Fires really affect the weather 
>> system so attempting the same without the fires may show better 
>> efficacy concerning rain.  In nature it would seem finesse wins over 
>> force so perhaps a good number of low powered meshes would work 
>> wonders as the earth could magnify the effects if the meshes were 
>> setup along the proper magnetic borders of high differential.
>>
>>
>>
>> ---In [email protected], <nwootan@...> wrote :
>>
>> Mick!  My problem here is that we have discussed this subject many 
>> times and everyone just goes back to the same old projects and do 
>> nothing with the information given.  To each his own so to speak. 
>> Electronics 101.  Tesla Fire, you want to generate a negative plasma 
>> at very high voltage via a magnetic spark gap yielding unidirectional 
>> DC pulse train with the Tesla recommended rest state of .0062 
>> millisecond between pulses,  longitudinal pulses. I had two setups 
>> that I used. First was a X-ray oil filled tank power supply, of 
>> Israel manufacture which had a tank top that was easily removed to 
>> get to the guts. I reversed the full wave bridge (60KV) to give me a 
>> negative output at the normal + anode terminal. Positive side of 
>> bridge was grounded which gave me the 60KVDC output for negative ion 
>> wind generator. I also used this power supply for negative ion heat 
>> barrier experiments.  The other setup was a 12KV potential 
>> transformer and full wave bridge to give me the HVDC potential I 
>> needed.  Very high voltage negative discharges yield beautiful 
>> plasma. I used a mechanical relay (solid state devices cannot survive 
>> here) to gate the high voltage DC pulses through the powerful horn 
>> spark gal which insured a pure unidirectional longitudinal pulse 
>> train with the rest period specified between pulses.   I find it very 
>> interesting that experiments with negative ion wind have all but 
>> disappeared from the internet. The POWERS TO BE know that negative 
>> ionization leads to such thing as COUNTERBARRY (anti-gravity) and 
>> cooling. Tom Bearden told me a lone time ago back in the early 80s 
>> not to even mention this subject cause you will end up a DEAD DUCK.  
>> Build your own experimental circuit from this article. I had cases of 
>> brand new flyback transformers that I got through salvage. Circuit is 
>> duck soup simple.  I have an ion wind generator running constantly in 
>> my home.
>>
>> https://fear-of-lightning.wonderhowto.com/how-to/high-voltage-happiness-make-negative-ion-generator-0133359/
>> https://www.circuitlib.com/index.php/schematics/product/52-negative-ion-generator/category_pathway-33
>> http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-Make-a-Negative-Ion-air-ionizer/
>> Have fun!    Norm
>>
>> On 7/7/2018 12:12 AM, mkjekyll@... <mailto:mkjekyll@...> [EVGRAY] wrote:
>>
>>>     Norm,
>>>
>>>     With all due respect I grasp the magnetic diode concept quite
>>>     well, this was not the question.
>>>     The question was could you elaborate on your setup, this was
>>>     all, no need for going on the offensive.
>>
>> 
>

Hi Norm,
  
 Thanks that was very enlightening specially the X-ray transformer as I forgot about those rectifiers.   Have been having issues of diode switching on one wire systems due to lack of current, lack of load on the output, to overcome the junction cut in voltage or just burning up RF diodes.  Could be some Germanium power diodes are also in order to be checked with the lower cut in voltage.
  
 For what it's worth I have many projects I work with so try to slim down the amount of information to grind through in order to move further along via the people before me who have made great strides such as yourself.  I apologize if my questions seem repetitive or lacking in foundation.
 I suppose you did not test much with a positive bias in order to prevent the x-rays.
it would be interesting to know the differences of the same magnetically fractioned positive and negative.
  
 You might be surprised with what is becoming hard to find along with ion wind.  It is a sad state of affairs when knowledge is restricted by the few.
 I think this may have serious karmic implications such as human ascension being hindered.
  
 We have many fires now around here. I have read the patents on the ion firefighting but have no idea of the effectiveness.  What did you find with your barrier experiments?  Do you think with some helicopters dropping battery powered charged meshes a serious fire could be redirected or even attenuated?
 We had so much smoke two years ago I setup a cloudbuster but found more than the water setting up a charge on the tubes accomplished more activity vis a vis removing the smoke locally.  What was fascinating is with a very small ion supply which was just a switching rectified neon type supply only about 3 or 4kv would cause atmospheric changes in mere minutes which was easy to see from the smoke.  Negative charge would suck the smoke down and a positive push it away.  Did not have any luck bringing big rain but I am convinced the more experienced such as Smokey would have no problem with the rain part.  Actually the negative may be the rain maker but it was hard to stomach with all the smoke.  Fires really affect the weather system so attempting the same without the fires may show better efficacy concerning rain.  In nature it would seem finesse wins over force so perhaps a good number of low powered meshes would work wonders as the earth could magnify the effects if the meshes were setup along the proper magnetic borders of high differential.
 

---In [email protected], <nwootan@...> wrote :

 Mick!  My problem here is that we have discussed this subject many times and everyone just goes back to the same old projects and do nothing with the information given.  To each his own so to speak.  Electronics 101.  Tesla Fire, you want to generate a negative plasma at very high voltage via a magnetic spark gap yielding unidirectional DC pulse train with the Tesla recommended rest state of .0062 millisecond between pulses,  longitudinal pulses. I had two setups that I used. First was a X-ray oil filled tank power supply, of Israel manufacture which had a tank top that was easily removed to get to the guts. I reversed the full wave bridge (60KV) to give me a negative output at the normal + anode terminal. Positive side of bridge was grounded which gave me the 60KVDC output for negative ion wind generator. I also used this power supply for negative ion heat barrier experiments.  The other setup was a 12KV potential transformer and full wave bridge to give me the HVDC potential I needed.  Very high voltage negative discharges yield beautiful plasma. I used a mechanical relay (solid state devices cannot survive here) to gate the high voltage DC pulses through the powerful horn spark gal which insured a pure unidirectional longitudinal pulse train with the rest period specified between pulses.   I find it very interesting that experiments with negative ion wind have all but disappeared from the internet. The POWERS TO BE know that negative ionization leads to such thing as COUNTERBARRY (anti-gravity) and cooling. Tom Bearden told me a lone time ago back in the early 80s not to even mention this subject cause you will end up a DEAD DUCK.  Build your own experimental circuit from this article. I had cases of brand new flyback transformers that I got through salvage. Circuit is duck soup simple.  I have an ion wind generator running constantly in my home. 

 https://fear-of-lightning.wonderhowto.com/how-to/high-voltage-happiness-make-negative-ion-generator-0133359/ https://fear-of-lightning.wonderhowto.com/how-to/high-voltage-happiness-make-negative-ion-generator-0133359/
 https://www.circuitlib.com/index.php/schematics/product/52-negative-ion-generator/category_pathway-33 https://www.circuitlib.com/index.php/schematics/product/52-negative-ion-generator/category_pathway-33
 http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-Make-a-Negative-Ion-air-ionizer/ http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-Make-a-Negative-Ion-air-ionizer/
 Have fun!    Norm
 
 On 7/7/2018 12:12 AM, mkjekyll@... mailto:mkjekyll@... [EVGRAY] wrote:

   Norm,
 With all due respect I grasp the magnetic diode concept quite well, this was not the question.
 The question was could you elaborate on your setup, this was all, no need for going on the offensive.

Try this one:

What is Heat #3

For about 10 years I have been studying the effects of

heating and cooling associated with the phase change of

liquids with the hope of building a simple generator of

electrical power around the phenomenon.The reason for this

interest is based on the theory that energy can be extracted

from the ambient background via thermal differentials.My

line of thinking really took off back when I experimented

with the all too familiar Peltier junction devices found in

electronic cooling devices.Would you believe that most

people do not understand how these devices move thermal

energy through a current flow across a semiconductor

junction.Historically we find that German physicist,

Thomas Seebeck back in 1820 observed that when heat was

applied to a junction of copper and steel wire that

electrical energy resulted.Later in 1834 Jean Peltier

discovered that when a direct current was applied to two

Dissimilar metals the junction got hot or cold.It was not

Until 1838 that Emil Lenz clearly showed the importance of

Both Seebeck and Peltier s discoveries by placing a drop of

Water on the junction of dissimilar metals which froze then

Melted when the polarity of the direct current was

Reversed.These discoveries remained dormant for over 100

Years because of the unavailability of semiconductor

Materials which could provide the wide temperature

Differentials.In the 1930 s semiconductor materials became

Available which revived the electric cooling principles.In

The 1960 s many companies began building spot cooling

Devices and refrigerators based on these effects using a

Junction material of bismuth-telluride. Today more advanced

Materials are used with the basic parameters of being a pore

Thermal conductor but being an excellent electrical

Conductor. The dissimilar materials must provide a high

Coefficient of voltage temperature relationship.The first

Peltier devices that I experimented with back about 10 years

ago were built by Marlow Industries here in Dallas.With a

small temperature differential across the device a weak

current with an attendant voltage was developed.Increasing

the differential provided a proportional increase in current

and voltage.About 6 years ago I posted a chart of the

wattage generated from two different size Peltier chips on

the Keely Net BBS.My curiosity was based on the puzzle of

how electron flow could move thermal energy across the

junctions and how electrical energy was produced by moving

thermal energy across the junction.This is a directly

reversible situation based on polarity.

Now let us look at a very familiar parallel process used in

refrigeration, cooling and heating devices employing phase

change material such as water and refrigerants.We have

always been led to believe that evaporating water provided

cooling effects which is a mechanical process. By the same

mechanical process we are provided heating effects by the

condensation of a gas back to a liquid phase change.Would

you believe that any material that undergoes a phase change

provides an attendant electrical effect.Back in 1840

Armstrong invented an electrostatic generator based on

escaping steam through insulated nozzles which provided one

of the most powerful devices of this type ever built.

Popular belief was that this was a frictional process with

the electrical output resulting from the steam friction

passing through the nozzles.After reading an old (1920 s)

Thermodynamics in Chemistry text book I realized that the

phase change of materials was an electrical phenomenon and

not purely mechanical.The atoms of the material lose or

gain electrons in the process which accounts for the

discrepancy in the energy equation when a material

transitions between phases.More energy is present after

the phase change back to the lower form or atomic state. The

text book stated that this phenomenon could not be

explained.When Jerry and I attended a Conference hosted by

Hal Puthoff down in Austin back about 6 years ago a

Physicist from Austria presented a paper on the phase change

of water and the attendant electrical phenomenon which is

totally not understood by modern science.Now my suspicions

were confirmed that phase changes of materials are an

electrostatic phenomenon, which leads us to the fundamental

question of,What is heat?We were told in theschool

that heat is the presence of energy and cool is the absence

of energy.What is the form of this energy?Let us look at

a very simple example of heating which may explain this

process.When sunlight strikes an absorbing surface it is

heated because electrons in the material are converted to

photons which are emitted in the infrared band of light

leaving the material in a net positive state or hot.The

more electrons a material loses the hotter it becomes.Now

the inverse situation is explored by evaporating some water

from the surface of a material which leaves the surface in a

net negative state or cold.Heat or cold is based on the

ion relationship in the material.When we apply a flame

(ionizing) to a material we cause the emission of photons

which is basically stripping away electrons from the atomic

structure causing a gross net positive situation to occur.

Now we are getting a picture as to how an electric current

across the Peltier junction can transport thermal energy

(ions).Since the energy is in the form of presence or

absence of electrons then it is a simple explanation as to

how the process works.All phase change processes work the

same way basically via ion transport and are not mechanical

processes which we were taught.Everythingin chemistry is

an electrical or electrostatic process at the atomic level

based on the ionized state of the atoms involved.

At a Vanguard Science Roundtable discussion several years ago

we talked about the ion wind method of fire fighting in

which ionized air will extinguish a flame because of the

cooling effects.Now we see Patents issued based on

negative ion spraying of a surface causing it to rapidly

cool because it becomes net negative charged.This is a

very efficient method of air-conditioning because an ion

generator operates at very high voltages with very little

current involved.It is possible to develop this ion

transport (thermal energy) to provide direct electrical

output from very subtle temperature differentials.Remember

that this is a direct reversible process where a thermal

differential will cause a development of current and voltage

as in the Peltier device.I hope that this dialog will

provide some food for thought out there on the Keely Net.

Please provide some feedback on this very interesting line

of experimentation.Norm


On 7/7/2018 5:38 PM, [email protected] [EVGRAY] wrote:
>
> Norm,
>
>
> Part of your heat treatise was evaporated by yahoo, feel free to send 
> to my email, very interesting topic that bummed me out when I hit 
> "Would" and nothing further!
>
> In respect to my wireless energy experiment I have found PNP to be 
> superior to NPN, maybe they shut off faster being always on or maybe 
> the end result is more hole ish.
>
>
>
>
>
>

Hi Norman,

"I find it very interesting that experiments with negative ion wind have all but disappeared from the internet."
Try another search engine. At least Google has lots of references to that technology: https://www.google.dk/search?q=lifter+ion+thruster&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjL1JD27o3cAhWGbVAKHSE2AisQsAQIcg&biw=1487&bih=1079 https://www.google.dk/search?q=lifter+ion+thruster&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjL1JD27o3cAhWGbVAKHSE2AisQsAQIcg&biw=1487&bih=1079

Or do I see them only because of living in a country where censorship is illegal with the risk of Mohamed crises etc? 

Regards
Ole
 

---In [email protected], <nwootan@...> wrote :

 Mick!  My problem here is that we have discussed this subject many times and everyone just goes back to the same old projects and do nothing with the information given.  To each his own so to speak.  Electronics 101.  Tesla Fire, you want to generate a negative plasma at very high voltage via a magnetic spark gap yielding unidirectional DC pulse train with the Tesla recommended rest state of .0062 millisecond between pulses,  longitudinal pulses. I had two setups that I used. First was a X-ray oil filled tank power supply, of Israel manufacture which had a tank top that was easily removed to get to the guts. I reversed the full wave bridge (60KV) to give me a negative output at the normal + anode terminal. Positive side of bridge was grounded which gave me the 60KVDC output for negative ion wind generator. I also used this power supply for negative ion heat barrier experiments.  The other setup was a 12KV potential transformer and full wave bridge to give me the HVDC potential I needed.  Very high voltage negative discharges yield beautiful plasma. I used a mechanical relay (solid state devices cannot survive here) to gate the high voltage DC pulses through the powerful horn spark gal which insured a pure unidirectional longitudinal pulse train with the rest period specified between pulses.   I find it very interesting that experiments with negative ion wind have all but disappeared from the internet. The POWERS TO BE know that negative ionization leads to such thing as COUNTERBARRY (anti-gravity) and cooling. Tom Bearden told me a lone time ago back in the early 80s not to even mention this subject cause you will end up a DEAD DUCK.  Build your own experimental circuit from this article. I had cases of brand new flyback transformers that I got through salvage. Circuit is duck soup simple.  I have an ion wind generator running constantly in my home. 

 https://fear-of-lightning.wonderhowto.com/how-to/high-voltage-happiness-make-negative-ion-generator-0133359/ https://fear-of-lightning.wonderhowto.com/how-to/high-voltage-happiness-make-negative-ion-generator-0133359/
 https://www.circuitlib.com/index.php/schematics/product/52-negative-ion-generator/category_pathway-33 https://www.circuitlib.com/index.php/schematics/product/52-negative-ion-generator/category_pathway-33
 http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-Make-a-Negative-Ion-air-ionizer/ http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-Make-a-Negative-Ion-air-ionizer/
 Have fun!    Norm
 
 On 7/7/2018 12:12 AM, mkjekyll@... mailto:mkjekyll@... [EVGRAY] wrote:

   Norm,
 With all due respect I grasp the magnetic diode concept quite well, this was not the question.
 The question was could you elaborate on your setup, this was all, no need for going on the offensive.

Norm,  
 Part of your heat treatise was evaporated by yahoo, feel free to send to my email, very interesting topic that bummed me out when I hit "Would" and nothing further!
 

 In respect to my wireless energy experiment I have found PNP to be superior to NPN, maybe they shut off faster being always on or maybe the end result is more hole ish.

NormanYou have written the best essay on this subject I have ever read.What an interesting concept, well researched.By carefully stating the subject, you also leave the door open to further research on a collective basis, for a group effort to build practical applications.This paper deserves recognition in a serious scientific journal.Cheers Warren
Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
 
  On Sat, 7 Jul 2018 at 8:56 PM, Norman Wootan [email protected] [EVGRAY]<[email protected]> wrote:       
 

Try this one:
 

 
 

                     What is Heat #3
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
For about 10 years I have been studying the effects of
 
heating and cooling associated with the phase change of
 
liquids with the hope of building a simple generator of
 
electrical power around the phenomenon.  The reason for this
 
interest is based on the theory that energy can be extracted
 
from the ambient background via thermal differentials.  My
 
line of thinking really took off back when I experimented
 
with the all too familiar Peltier junction devices found in
 
electronic cooling devices.  Would you believe that most
 
people do not understand how these devices move thermal
 
energy through a current flow across a semiconductor
 
junction.  Historically we find that German physicist,
 
Thomas Seebeck back in 1820 observed that when heat was
 
applied to a junction of copper and steel wire that
 
electrical energy resulted.  Later in 1834 Jean Peltier
 
discovered that when a direct current was applied to two
 
Dissimilar metals the junction got hot or cold.  It was not
 
Until 1838 that Emil Lenz clearly showed the importance of
 
Both Seebeck and Peltier s discoveries by placing a drop of
 
Water on the junction of dissimilar metals which froze then
 
Melted when the polarity of the direct current was
 
Reversed.  These discoveries remained dormant for over 100
 
Years because of the unavailability of semiconductor
 
Materials which could provide the wide temperature
 
Differentials.  In the 1930 s semiconductor materials became
 
Available which revived the electric cooling principles.  In
 
The 1960 s many companies began building spot cooling
 
Devices and refrigerators based on these effects using a
 
Junction material of bismuth-telluride. Today more advanced
 
Materials are used with the basic parameters of being a pore
 
Thermal conductor but being an excellent electrical
 
Conductor. The dissimilar materials must provide a high
 
Coefficient of voltage temperature relationship.  The first
 
Peltier devices that I experimented with back about 10 years
 
ago were built by Marlow Industries here in Dallas.   With a
 
small temperature differential across the device a weak
 
current with an attendant voltage was developed.  Increasing
 
the differential provided a proportional increase in current
 
and voltage.  About 6 years ago I posted a chart of the
 
wattage generated from two different size Peltier chips on
 
the Keely Net BBS.   My curiosity was based on the puzzle of
 
how electron flow could move thermal energy across the
 
junctions and how electrical energy was produced by moving
 
thermal energy across the junction.  This is a directly
 
reversible situation based on polarity.
 
Now let us look at a very familiar parallel process used in
 
refrigeration, cooling and heating devices employing phase
 
change material such as water and refrigerants.  We have
 
always been led to believe that evaporating water provided
 
cooling effects which is a mechanical process. By the same
 
mechanical process we are provided heating effects by the
 
condensation of a gas back to a liquid phase change.  Would 

you believe that any material that undergoes a phase change
 
provides an attendant electrical effect.   Back in 1840
 
Armstrong invented an electrostatic generator based on
 
escaping steam through insulated nozzles which provided one
 
of the most powerful devices of this type ever built.
 
Popular belief was that this was a frictional process with
 
the electrical output resulting from the steam friction
 
passing through the nozzles.   After reading an old (1920 s)
 
Thermodynamics in Chemistry text book I realized that the
 
phase change of materials was an electrical phenomenon and
 
not purely mechanical.  The atoms of the material lose or
 
gain electrons in the process which accounts for the
 
discrepancy in the energy equation when a material
 
transitions between phases.  More energy is present after
 
the phase change back to the lower form or atomic state. The
 
text book stated that this phenomenon could not be
 
explained.  When Jerry and I attended a Conference hosted by
 
Hal Puthoff down in Austin back about 6 years ago a
 
Physicist from Austria presented a paper on the phase change
 
of water and the attendant electrical phenomenon which is
 
totally not understood by modern science.  Now my suspicions
 
were confirmed that phase changes of materials are an
 
electrostatic phenomenon, which leads us to the fundamental
 
question of,  What is heat?    We were told in the  school 
 
that heat is the presence of energy and cool is the absence
 
of energy.  What is the form of this energy?  Let us look at
 
a very simple example of heating which may explain this
 
process.  When sunlight strikes an absorbing surface it is
 
heated because electrons in the material are converted to
 
photons which are emitted in the infrared band of light
 
leaving the material in a net positive state or hot.  The
 
more electrons a material loses the hotter it becomes.  Now
 
the inverse situation is explored by evaporating some water
 
from the surface of a material which leaves the surface in a
 
net negative state or cold.  Heat or cold is based on the
 
ion relationship in the material.  When we apply a flame
 
(ionizing) to a material we cause the emission of photons
 
which is basically stripping away electrons from the atomic
 
structure causing a gross net positive situation to occur.
 
Now we are getting a picture as to how an electric current
 
across the Peltier junction can transport thermal energy
 
(ions).  Since the energy is in the form of presence or
 
absence of electrons then it is a simple explanation as to
 
how the process works.  All phase change processes work the
 
same way basically via ion transport and are not mechanical
 
processes which we were taught.  Everything  in chemistry is
 
an electrical or electrostatic process at the atomic level
 
based on the ionized state of the atoms involved.
 
At a Vanguard Science Roundtable discussion several years ago
 
we talked about the ion wind method of fire fighting in
 
which ionized air will extinguish a flame because of the
 
cooling effects.  Now we see Patents issued based on
 
negative ion spraying of a surface causing it to rapidly
 
cool because it becomes net negative charged.  This is a
 
very efficient method of air-conditioning because an ion
 generator operates at very high voltages with very little 
 

current involved.   It is possible to develop this ion
 
transport (thermal energy) to provide direct electrical
 
output from very subtle temperature differentials.  Remember
 
that this is a direct reversible process where a thermal
 
differential will cause a development of current and voltage
 
as in the Peltier device.   I hope that this dialog will
 
provide some food for thought out there on the Keely Net.
 
Please provide some feedback on this very interesting line
 
of experimentation.   Norm
 
 
 
 On 7/7/2018 5:38 PM, [email protected] [EVGRAY] wrote:
  
    
Norm, 
 
 Part of your heat treatise was evaporated by yahoo, feel free to send to my email, very interesting topic that bummed me out when I hit "Would" and nothing further! 
  In respect to my wireless energy experiment I have found PNP to be superior to NPN, maybe they shut off faster being always on or maybe the end result is more hole ish. 
  
  
  
  
    
 
  #yiv5592281909 #yiv5592281909 -- #yiv5592281909ygrp-mkp {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:10px 0;padding:0 10px;}#yiv5592281909 #yiv5592281909ygrp-mkp hr {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;}#yiv5592281909 #yiv5592281909ygrp-mkp #yiv5592281909hd {color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:700;line-height:122%;margin:10px 0;}#yiv5592281909 #yiv5592281909ygrp-mkp #yiv5592281909ads {margin-bottom:10px;}#yiv5592281909 #yiv5592281909ygrp-mkp .yiv5592281909ad {padding:0 0;}#yiv5592281909 #yiv5592281909ygrp-mkp .yiv5592281909ad p {margin:0;}#yiv5592281909 #yiv5592281909ygrp-mkp .yiv5592281909ad a {color:#0000ff;text-decoration:none;}#yiv5592281909 #yiv5592281909ygrp-sponsor #yiv5592281909ygrp-lc {font-family:Arial;}#yiv5592281909 #yiv5592281909ygrp-sponsor #yiv5592281909ygrp-lc #yiv5592281909hd {margin:10px 0px;font-weight:700;font-size:78%;line-height:122%;}#yiv5592281909 #yiv5592281909ygrp-sponsor #yiv5592281909ygrp-lc .yiv5592281909ad {margin-bottom:10px;padding:0 0;}#yiv5592281909 #yiv5592281909actions {font-family:Verdana;font-size:11px;padding:10px 0;}#yiv5592281909 #yiv5592281909activity {background-color:#e0ecee;float:left;font-family:Verdana;font-size:10px;padding:10px;}#yiv5592281909 #yiv5592281909activity span {font-weight:700;}#yiv5592281909 #yiv5592281909activity span:first-child {text-transform:uppercase;}#yiv5592281909 #yiv5592281909activity span a {color:#5085b6;text-decoration:none;}#yiv5592281909 #yiv5592281909activity span span {color:#ff7900;}#yiv5592281909 #yiv5592281909activity span .yiv5592281909underline {text-decoration:underline;}#yiv5592281909 .yiv5592281909attach {clear:both;display:table;font-family:Arial;font-size:12px;padding:10px 0;width:400px;}#yiv5592281909 .yiv5592281909attach div a {text-decoration:none;}#yiv5592281909 .yiv5592281909attach img {border:none;padding-right:5px;}#yiv5592281909 .yiv5592281909attach label {display:block;margin-bottom:5px;}#yiv5592281909 .yiv5592281909attach label a {text-decoration:none;}#yiv5592281909 blockquote {margin:0 0 0 4px;}#yiv5592281909 .yiv5592281909bold {font-family:Arial;font-size:13px;font-weight:700;}#yiv5592281909 .yiv5592281909bold a {text-decoration:none;}#yiv5592281909 dd.yiv5592281909last p a {font-family:Verdana;font-weight:700;}#yiv5592281909 dd.yiv5592281909last p span {margin-right:10px;font-family:Verdana;font-weight:700;}#yiv5592281909 dd.yiv5592281909last p span.yiv5592281909yshortcuts {margin-right:0;}#yiv5592281909 div.yiv5592281909attach-table div div a {text-decoration:none;}#yiv5592281909 div.yiv5592281909attach-table {width:400px;}#yiv5592281909 div.yiv5592281909file-title a, #yiv5592281909 div.yiv5592281909file-title a:active, #yiv5592281909 div.yiv5592281909file-title a:hover, #yiv5592281909 div.yiv5592281909file-title a:visited {text-decoration:none;}#yiv5592281909 div.yiv5592281909photo-title a, #yiv5592281909 div.yiv5592281909photo-title a:active, #yiv5592281909 div.yiv5592281909photo-title a:hover, #yiv5592281909 div.yiv5592281909photo-title a:visited {text-decoration:none;}#yiv5592281909 div#yiv5592281909ygrp-mlmsg #yiv5592281909ygrp-msg p a span.yiv5592281909yshortcuts {font-family:Verdana;font-size:10px;font-weight:normal;}#yiv5592281909 .yiv5592281909green {color:#628c2a;}#yiv5592281909 .yiv5592281909MsoNormal {margin:0 0 0 0;}#yiv5592281909 o {font-size:0;}#yiv5592281909 #yiv5592281909photos div {float:left;width:72px;}#yiv5592281909 #yiv5592281909photos div div {border:1px solid #666666;min-height:62px;overflow:hidden;width:62px;}#yiv5592281909 #yiv5592281909photos div label {color:#666666;font-size:10px;overflow:hidden;text-align:center;white-space:nowrap;width:64px;}#yiv5592281909 #yiv5592281909reco-category {font-size:77%;}#yiv5592281909 #yiv5592281909reco-desc {font-size:77%;}#yiv5592281909 .yiv5592281909replbq {margin:4px;}#yiv5592281909 #yiv5592281909ygrp-actbar div a:first-child {margin-right:2px;padding-right:5px;}#yiv5592281909 #yiv5592281909ygrp-mlmsg {font-size:13px;font-family:Arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif;}#yiv5592281909 #yiv5592281909ygrp-mlmsg table {font-size:inherit;font:100%;}#yiv5592281909 #yiv5592281909ygrp-mlmsg select, #yiv5592281909 input, #yiv5592281909 textarea {font:99% Arial, Helvetica, clean, sans-serif;}#yiv5592281909 #yiv5592281909ygrp-mlmsg pre, #yiv5592281909 code {font:115% monospace;}#yiv5592281909 #yiv5592281909ygrp-mlmsg * {line-height:1.22em;}#yiv5592281909 #yiv5592281909ygrp-mlmsg #yiv5592281909logo {padding-bottom:10px;}#yiv5592281909 #yiv5592281909ygrp-msg p a {font-family:Verdana;}#yiv5592281909 #yiv5592281909ygrp-msg p#yiv5592281909attach-count span {color:#1E66AE;font-weight:700;}#yiv5592281909 #yiv5592281909ygrp-reco #yiv5592281909reco-head {color:#ff7900;font-weight:700;}#yiv5592281909 #yiv5592281909ygrp-reco {margin-bottom:20px;padding:0px;}#yiv5592281909 #yiv5592281909ygrp-sponsor #yiv5592281909ov li a {font-size:130%;text-decoration:none;}#yiv5592281909 #yiv5592281909ygrp-sponsor #yiv5592281909ov li {font-size:77%;list-style-type:square;padding:6px 0;}#yiv5592281909 #yiv5592281909ygrp-sponsor #yiv5592281909ov ul {margin:0;padding:0 0 0 8px;}#yiv5592281909 #yiv5592281909ygrp-text {font-family:Georgia;}#yiv5592281909 #yiv5592281909ygrp-text p {margin:0 0 1em 0;}#yiv5592281909 #yiv5592281909ygrp-text tt {font-size:120%;}#yiv5592281909 #yiv5592281909ygrp-vital ul li:last-child {border-right:none !important;}#yiv5592281909

Norm,

A very interesting way of looking at things.  Always equated heat to the
atoms bumping around faster along with the electrons so these would be
ion's as another term.  When designing with tubes, as you would be very
aware of having done DeVry in those days, one always tries to make sure
to move only electrons and not create situations where ions move else
the cathode wears away.

Based on these facts there are likely superior neg ion emitters for fire
mediation, do you recall if the patent with the air hose used platinum
or carbon or tungsten?

Being one who suffers from allergies I have used neg ion generators for
years and had many black spots on the walls.  Found some enclosed with
filters from Graingers in the 70's that work better but would arc over
every so often when dust for a moment was between the emitter and
ground.  One very interesting effect I noticed was the device would arc
during highly emotional times such as when several people were in the
room and someone said something really funny and as soon as guttural
laughs began the good old air cleaner would laugh/ arc along.  I never
told this to anyone as I prefer my freedom.




On 7/7/2018 5:56 PM, Norman Wootan [email protected] [EVGRAY] wrote:
>  
>
> Try this one:
>
>                      What is Heat #3
>
>  
>
>  
>
>  
>
>  
>
> For about 10 years I have been studying the effects of
>
> heating and cooling associated with the phase change of
>
> liquids with the hope of building a simple generator of
>
> electrical power around the phenomenon.  The reason for this
>
> interest is based on the theory that energy can be extracted
>
> from the ambient background via thermal differentials.  My
>
> line of thinking really took off back when I experimented
>
> with the all too familiar Peltier junction devices found in
>
> electronic cooling devices.  Would you believe that most
>
> people do not understand how these devices move thermal
>
> energy through a current flow across a semiconductor
>
> junction.  Historically we find that German physicist,
>
> Thomas Seebeck back in 1820 observed that when heat was
>
> applied to a junction of copper and steel wire that
>
> electrical energy resulted.  Later in 1834 Jean Peltier
>
> discovered that when a direct current was applied to two
>
> Dissimilar metals the junction got hot or cold.  It was not
>
> Until 1838 that Emil Lenz clearly showed the importance of
>
> Both Seebeck and Peltier s discoveries by placing a drop of
>
> Water on the junction of dissimilar metals which froze then
>
> Melted when the polarity of the direct current was
>
> Reversed.  These discoveries remained dormant for over 100
>
> Years because of the unavailability of semiconductor
>
> Materials which could provide the wide temperature
>
> Differentials.  In the 1930 s semiconductor materials became
>
> Available which revived the electric cooling principles.  In
>
> The 1960 s many companies began building spot cooling
>
> Devices and refrigerators based on these effects using a
>
> Junction material of bismuth-telluride. Today more advanced
>
> Materials are used with the basic parameters of being a pore
>
> Thermal conductor but being an excellent electrical
>
> Conductor. The dissimilar materials must provide a high
>
> Coefficient of voltage temperature relationship.  The first
>
> Peltier devices that I experimented with back about 10 years
>
> ago were built by Marlow Industries here in Dallas.   With a
>
> small temperature differential across the device a weak
>
> current with an attendant voltage was developed.  Increasing
>
> the differential provided a proportional increase in current
>
> and voltage.  About 6 years ago I posted a chart of the
>
> wattage generated from two different size Peltier chips on
>
> the Keely Net BBS.   My curiosity was based on the puzzle of
>
> how electron flow could move thermal energy across the
>
> junctions and how electrical energy was produced by moving
>
> thermal energy across the junction.  This is a directly
>
> reversible situation based on polarity.
>
> Now let us look at a very familiar parallel process used in
>
> refrigeration, cooling and heating devices employing phase
>
> change material such as water and refrigerants.  We have
>
> always been led to believe that evaporating water provided
>
> cooling effects which is a mechanical process. By the same
>
> mechanical process we are provided heating effects by the
>
> condensation of a gas back to a liquid phase change.  Would
>
> you believe that any material that undergoes a phase change
>
> provides an attendant electrical effect.   Back in 1840
>
> Armstrong invented an electrostatic generator based on
>
> escaping steam through insulated nozzles which provided one
>
> of the most powerful devices of this type ever built.
>
> Popular belief was that this was a frictional process with
>
> the electrical output resulting from the steam friction
>
> passing through the nozzles.   After reading an old (1920 s)
>
> Thermodynamics in Chemistry text book I realized that the
>
> phase change of materials was an electrical phenomenon and
>
> not purely mechanical.  The atoms of the material lose or
>
> gain electrons in the process which accounts for the
>
> discrepancy in the energy equation when a material
>
> transitions between phases.  More energy is present after
>
> the phase change back to the lower form or atomic state. The
>
> text book stated that this phenomenon could not be
>
> explained.  When Jerry and I attended a Conference hosted by
>
> Hal Puthoff down in Austin back about 6 years ago a
>
> Physicist from Austria presented a paper on the phase change
>
> of water and the attendant electrical phenomenon which is
>
> totally not understood by modern science.  Now my suspicions
>
> were confirmed that phase changes of materials are an
>
> electrostatic phenomenon, which leads us to the fundamental
>
> question of,  What is heat?    We were told in the  school
>
> that heat is the presence of energy and cool is the absence
>
> of energy.  What is the form of this energy?  Let us look at
>
> a very simple example of heating which may explain this
>
> process.  When sunlight strikes an absorbing surface it is
>
> heated because electrons in the material are converted to
>
> photons which are emitted in the infrared band of light
>
> leaving the material in a net positive state or hot.  The
>
> more electrons a material loses the hotter it becomes.  Now
>
> the inverse situation is explored by evaporating some water
>
> from the surface of a material which leaves the surface in a
>
> net negative state or cold.  Heat or cold is based on the
>
> ion relationship in the material.  When we apply a flame
>
> (ionizing) to a material we cause the emission of photons
>
> which is basically stripping away electrons from the atomic
>
> structure causing a gross net positive situation to occur.
>
> Now we are getting a picture as to how an electric current
>
> across the Peltier junction can transport thermal energy
>
> (ions).  Since the energy is in the form of presence or
>
> absence of electrons then it is a simple explanation as to
>
> how the process works.  All phase change processes work the
>
> same way basically via ion transport and are not mechanical
>
> processes which we were taught.  Everything  in chemistry is
>
> an electrical or electrostatic process at the atomic level
>
> based on the ionized state of the atoms involved.
>
> At a Vanguard Science Roundtable discussion several years ago
>
> we talked about the ion wind method of fire fighting in
>
> which ionized air will extinguish a flame because of the
>
> cooling effects.  Now we see Patents issued based on
>
> negative ion spraying of a surface causing it to rapidly
>
> cool because it becomes net negative charged.  This is a
>
> very efficient method of air-conditioning because an ion
>
> generator operates at very high voltages with very little
>
> current involved.   It is possible to develop this ion
>
> transport (thermal energy) to provide direct electrical
>
> output from very subtle temperature differentials.  Remember
>
> that this is a direct reversible process where a thermal
>
> differential will cause a development of current and voltage
>
> as in the Peltier device.   I hope that this dialog will
>
> provide some food for thought out there on the Keely Net.
>
> Please provide some feedback on this very interesting line
>
> of experimentation.   Norm
>
>
> On 7/7/2018 5:38 PM, [email protected] [EVGRAY] wrote:
>>  
>>
>> Norm, 
>>
>>
>> Part of your heat treatise was evaporated by yahoo, feel free to send
>> to my email, very interesting topic that bummed me out when I hit
>> "Would" and nothing further!
>>
>> In respect to my wireless energy experiment I have found PNP to be
>> superior to NPN, maybe they shut off faster being always on or maybe
>> the end result is more hole ish.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>

Remember the days of Texas Instrument Engineers advancing the theory of 
moving holes vs moving electrons?? You make a hole by ejecting an 
electron (ionization) so electrons have a migration path filling holes.


On 7/8/2018 10:07 AM, Mick [email protected] [EVGRAY] wrote:
>
> Norm,
>
> A very interesting way of looking at things.  Always equated heat to 
> the atoms bumping around faster along with the electrons so these 
> would be ion's as another term. When designing with tubes, as you 
> would be very aware of having done DeVry in those days, one always 
> tries to make sure to move only electrons and not create situations 
> where ions move else the cathode wears away.
>
> Based on these facts there are likely superior neg ion emitters for 
> fire mediation, do you recall if the patent with the air hose used 
> platinum or carbon or tungsten?
>
> Being one who suffers from allergies I have used neg ion generators 
> for years and had many black spots on the walls.  Found some enclosed 
> with filters from Graingers in the 70's that work better but would arc 
> over every so often when dust for a moment was between the emitter and 
> ground.  One very interesting effect I noticed was the device would 
> arc during highly emotional times such as when several people were in 
> the room and someone said something really funny and as soon as 
> guttural laughs began the good old air cleaner would laugh/ arc 
> along.  I never told this to anyone as I prefer my freedom.
>
>
>
>
> On 7/7/2018 5:56 PM, Norman Wootan [email protected] [EVGRAY] wrote:
>>
>> Try this one:
>>
>> What is Heat #3
>>
>> For about 10 years I have been studying the effects of
>>
>> heating and cooling associated with the phase change of
>>
>> liquids with the hope of building a simple generator of
>>
>> electrical power around the phenomenon.The reason for this
>>
>> interest is based on the theory that energy can be extracted
>>
>> from the ambient background via thermal differentials.My
>>
>> line of thinking really took off back when I experimented
>>
>> with the all too familiar Peltier junction devices found in
>>
>> electronic cooling devices.Would you believe that most
>>
>> people do not understand how these devices move thermal
>>
>> energy through a current flow across a semiconductor
>>
>> junction.Historically we find that German physicist,
>>
>> Thomas Seebeck back in 1820 observed that when heat was
>>
>> applied to a junction of copper and steel wire that
>>
>> electrical energy resulted.Later in 1834 Jean Peltier
>>
>> discovered that when a direct current was applied to two
>>
>> Dissimilar metals the junction got hot or cold.It was not
>>
>> Until 1838 that Emil Lenz clearly showed the importance of
>>
>> Both Seebeck and Peltier s discoveries by placing a drop of
>>
>> Water on the junction of dissimilar metals which froze then
>>
>> Melted when the polarity of the direct current was
>>
>> Reversed.These discoveries remained dormant for over 100
>>
>> Years because of the unavailability of semiconductor
>>
>> Materials which could provide the wide temperature
>>
>> Differentials.In the 1930 s semiconductor materials became
>>
>> Available which revived the electric cooling principles.In
>>
>> The 1960 s many companies began building spot cooling
>>
>> Devices and refrigerators based on these effects using a
>>
>> Junction material of bismuth-telluride. Today more advanced
>>
>> Materials are used with the basic parameters of being a pore
>>
>> Thermal conductor but being an excellent electrical
>>
>> Conductor. The dissimilar materials must provide a high
>>
>> Coefficient of voltage temperature relationship.The first
>>
>> Peltier devices that I experimented with back about 10 years
>>
>> ago were built by Marlow Industries here in Dallas.With a
>>
>> small temperature differential across the device a weak
>>
>> current with an attendant voltage was developed.Increasing
>>
>> the differential provided a proportional increase in current
>>
>> and voltage.About 6 years ago I posted a chart of the
>>
>> wattage generated from two different size Peltier chips on
>>
>> the Keely Net BBS.My curiosity was based on the puzzle of
>>
>> how electron flow could move thermal energy across the
>>
>> junctions and how electrical energy was produced by moving
>>
>> thermal energy across the junction.This is a directly
>>
>> reversible situation based on polarity.
>>
>> Now let us look at a very familiar parallel process used in
>>
>> refrigeration, cooling and heating devices employing phase
>>
>> change material such as water and refrigerants.We have
>>
>> always been led to believe that evaporating water provided
>>
>> cooling effects which is a mechanical process. By the same
>>
>> mechanical process we are provided heating effects by the
>>
>> condensation of a gas back to a liquid phase change.Would
>>
>> you believe that any material that undergoes a phase change
>>
>> provides an attendant electrical effect.Back in 1840
>>
>> Armstrong invented an electrostatic generator based on
>>
>> escaping steam through insulated nozzles which provided one
>>
>> of the most powerful devices of this type ever built.
>>
>> Popular belief was that this was a frictional process with
>>
>> the electrical output resulting from the steam friction
>>
>> passing through the nozzles.After reading an old (1920 s)
>>
>> Thermodynamics in Chemistry text book I realized that the
>>
>> phase change of materials was an electrical phenomenon and
>>
>> not purely mechanical.The atoms of the material lose or
>>
>> gain electrons in the process which accounts for the
>>
>> discrepancy in the energy equation when a material
>>
>> transitions between phases.More energy is present after
>>
>> the phase change back to the lower form or atomic state. The
>>
>> text book stated that this phenomenon could not be
>>
>> explained.When Jerry and I attended a Conference hosted by
>>
>> Hal Puthoff down in Austin back about 6 years ago a
>>
>> Physicist from Austria presented a paper on the phase change
>>
>> of water and the attendant electrical phenomenon which is
>>
>> totally not understood by modern science.Now my suspicions
>>
>> were confirmed that phase changes of materials are an
>>
>> electrostatic phenomenon, which leads us to the fundamental
>>
>> question of,What is heat?We were told in theschool
>>
>> that heat is the presence of energy and cool is the absence
>>
>> of energy.What is the form of this energy?Let us look at
>>
>> a very simple example of heating which may explain this
>>
>> process.When sunlight strikes an absorbing surface it is
>>
>> heated because electrons in the material are converted to
>>
>> photons which are emitted in the infrared band of light
>>
>> leaving the material in a net positive state or hot.The
>>
>> more electrons a material loses the hotter it becomes.Now
>>
>> the inverse situation is explored by evaporating some water
>>
>> from the surface of a material which leaves the surface in a
>>
>> net negative state or cold.Heat or cold is based on the
>>
>> ion relationship in the material.When we apply a flame
>>
>> (ionizing) to a material we cause the emission of photons
>>
>> which is basically stripping away electrons from the atomic
>>
>> structure causing a gross net positive situation to occur.
>>
>> Now we are getting a picture as to how an electric current
>>
>> across the Peltier junction can transport thermal energy
>>
>> (ions).Since the energy is in the form of presence or
>>
>> absence of electrons then it is a simple explanation as to
>>
>> how the process works.All phase change processes work the
>>
>> same way basically via ion transport and are not mechanical
>>
>> processes which we were taught.Everythingin chemistry is
>>
>> an electrical or electrostatic process at the atomic level
>>
>> based on the ionized state of the atoms involved.
>>
>> At a Vanguard Science Roundtable discussion several years ago
>>
>> we talked about the ion wind method of fire fighting in
>>
>> which ionized air will extinguish a flame because of the
>>
>> cooling effects.Now we see Patents issued based on
>>
>> negative ion spraying of a surface causing it to rapidly
>>
>> cool because it becomes net negative charged.This is a
>>
>> very efficient method of air-conditioning because an ion
>>
>> generator operates at very high voltages with very little
>>
>> current involved.It is possible to develop this ion
>>
>> transport (thermal energy) to provide direct electrical
>>
>> output from very subtle temperature differentials.Remember
>>
>> that this is a direct reversible process where a thermal
>>
>> differential will cause a development of current and voltage
>>
>> as in the Peltier device.I hope that this dialog will
>>
>> provide some food for thought out there on the Keely Net.
>>
>> Please provide some feedback on this very interesting line
>>
>> of experimentation.Norm
>>
>>
>> On 7/7/2018 5:38 PM, [email protected] [EVGRAY] wrote:
>>>
>>> Norm,
>>>
>>>
>>> Part of your heat treatise was evaporated by yahoo, feel free to 
>>> send to my email, very interesting topic that bummed me out when I 
>>> hit "Would" and nothing further!
>>>
>>> In respect to my wireless energy experiment I have found PNP to be 
>>> superior to NPN, maybe they shut off faster being always on or maybe 
>>> the end result is more hole ish.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>

I am searching my files as we write looking for Peltier tables of 
output. If sheets of bonded junctions would be made, this approach has 
10X energy output over the photovoltaic approach per square ft. of 
space.  Uses only temp differential from the ambient environment.


On 7/8/2018 2:54 AM, Warren Keillor [email protected] 
[EVGRAY] wrote:
>
>
> Norman
>
> You have written the best essay on this subject I have ever read.
> What an interesting concept, well researched.
> By carefully stating the subject, you also leave the door open to 
> further research on a collective basis, for a group effort to build 
> practical applications.
> This paper deserves recognition in a serious scientific journal.
> Cheers Warren
> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
> <https://go.onelink.me/107872968?pid=InProduct&c=Global_Internal_YGrowth_AndroidEmailSig__AndroidUsers&af_wl=ym&af_sub1=Internal&af_sub2=Global_YGrowth&af_sub3=EmailSignature>
>
>     On Sat, 7 Jul 2018 at 8:56 PM, Norman Wootan [email protected] [EVGRAY]
>     <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>     Try this one:
>
>     What is Heat #3
>
>     For about 10 years I have been studying the effects of
>
>     heating and cooling associated with the phase change of
>
>     liquids with the hope of building a simple generator of
>
>     electrical power around the phenomenon.The reason for this
>
>     interest is based on the theory that energy can be extracted
>
>     from the ambient background via thermal differentials.My
>
>     line of thinking really took off back when I experimented
>
>     with the all too familiar Peltier junction devices found in
>
>     electronic cooling devices.Would you believe that most
>
>     people do not understand how these devices move thermal
>
>     energy through a current flow across a semiconductor
>
>     junction.Historically we find that German physicist,
>
>     Thomas Seebeck back in 1820 observed that when heat was
>
>     applied to a junction of copper and steel wire that
>
>     electrical energy resulted.Later in 1834 Jean Peltier
>
>     discovered that when a direct current was applied to two
>
>     Dissimilar metals the junction got hot or cold.It was not
>
>     Until 1838 that Emil Lenz clearly showed the importance of
>
>     Both Seebeck and Peltier s discoveries by placing a drop of
>
>     Water on the junction of dissimilar metals which froze then
>
>     Melted when the polarity of the direct current was
>
>     Reversed.These discoveries remained dormant for over 100
>
>     Years because of the unavailability of semiconductor
>
>     Materials which could provide the wide temperature
>
>     Differentials.In the 1930 s semiconductor materials became
>
>     Available which revived the electric cooling principles.In
>
>     The 1960 s many companies began building spot cooling
>
>     Devices and refrigerators based on these effects using a
>
>     Junction material of bismuth-telluride. Today more advanced
>
>     Materials are used with the basic parameters of being a pore
>
>     Thermal conductor but being an excellent electrical
>
>     Conductor. The dissimilar materials must provide a high
>
>     Coefficient of voltage temperature relationship.The first
>
>     Peltier devices that I experimented with back about 10 years
>
>     ago were built by Marlow Industries here in Dallas.With a
>
>     small temperature differential across the device a weak
>
>     current with an attendant voltage was developed.Increasing
>
>     the differential provided a proportional increase in current
>
>     and voltage.About 6 years ago I posted a chart of the
>
>     wattage generated from two different size Peltier chips on
>
>     the Keely Net BBS.My curiosity was based on the puzzle of
>
>     how electron flow could move thermal energy across the
>
>     junctions and how electrical energy was produced by moving
>
>     thermal energy across the junction.This is a directly
>
>     reversible situation based on polarity.
>
>     Now let us look at a very familiar parallel process used in
>
>     refrigeration, cooling and heating devices employing phase
>
>     change material such as water and refrigerants.We have
>
>     always been led to believe that evaporating water provided
>
>     cooling effects which is a mechanical process. By the same
>
>     mechanical process we are provided heating effects by the
>
>     condensation of a gas back to a liquid phase change.Would
>
>     you believe that any material that undergoes a phase change
>
>     provides an attendant electrical effect.Back in 1840
>
>     Armstrong invented an electrostatic generator based on
>
>     escaping steam through insulated nozzles which provided one
>
>     of the most powerful devices of this type ever built.
>
>     Popular belief was that this was a frictional process with
>
>     the electrical output resulting from the steam friction
>
>     passing through the nozzles.After reading an old (1920 s)
>
>     Thermodynamics in Chemistry text book I realized that the
>
>     phase change of materials was an electrical phenomenon and
>
>     not purely mechanical.The atoms of the material lose or
>
>     gain electrons in the process which accounts for the
>
>     discrepancy in the energy equation when a material
>
>     transitions between phases.More energy is present after
>
>     the phase change back to the lower form or atomic state. The
>
>     text book stated that this phenomenon could not be
>
>     explained.When Jerry and I attended a Conference hosted by
>
>     Hal Puthoff down in Austin back about 6 years ago a
>
>     Physicist from Austria presented a paper on the phase change
>
>     of water and the attendant electrical phenomenon which is
>
>     totally not understood by modern science.Now my suspicions
>
>     were confirmed that phase changes of materials are an
>
>     electrostatic phenomenon, which leads us to the fundamental
>
>     question of,What is heat?We were told in theschool
>
>     that heat is the presence of energy and cool is the absence
>
>     of energy.What is the form of this energy?Let us look at
>
>     a very simple example of heating which may explain this
>
>     process.When sunlight strikes an absorbing surface it is
>
>     heated because electrons in the material are converted to
>
>     photons which are emitted in the infrared band of light
>
>     leaving the material in a net positive state or hot.The
>
>     more electrons a material loses the hotter it becomes.Now
>
>     the inverse situation is explored by evaporating some water
>
>     from the surface of a material which leaves the surface in a
>
>     net negative state or cold.Heat or cold is based on the
>
>     ion relationship in the material.When we apply a flame
>
>     (ionizing) to a material we cause the emission of photons
>
>     which is basically stripping away electrons from the atomic
>
>     structure causing a gross net positive situation to occur.
>
>     Now we are getting a picture as to how an electric current
>
>     across the Peltier junction can transport thermal energy
>
>     (ions).Since the energy is in the form of presence or
>
>     absence of electrons then it is a simple explanation as to
>
>     how the process works.All phase change processes work the
>
>     same way basically via ion transport and are not mechanical
>
>     processes which we were taught.Everythingin chemistry is
>
>     an electrical or electrostatic process at the atomic level
>
>     based on the ionized state of the atoms involved.
>
>     At a Vanguard Science Roundtable discussion several years ago
>
>     we talked about the ion wind method of fire fighting in
>
>     which ionized air will extinguish a flame because of the
>
>     cooling effects.Now we see Patents issued based on
>
>     negative ion spraying of a surface causing it to rapidly
>
>     cool because it becomes net negative charged.This is a
>
>     very efficient method of air-conditioning because an ion
>
>     generator operates at very high voltages with very little
>
>     current involved.It is possible to develop this ion
>
>     transport (thermal energy) to provide direct electrical
>
>     output from very subtle temperature differentials.Remember
>
>     that this is a direct reversible process where a thermal
>
>     differential will cause a development of current and voltage
>
>     as in the Peltier device.I hope that this dialog will
>
>     provide some food for thought out there on the Keely Net.
>
>     Please provide some feedback on this very interesting line
>
>     of experimentation.Norm
>
>
>     On 7/7/2018 5:38 PM, [email protected]
>     <mailto:[email protected]> [EVGRAY] wrote:
>>
>>     Norm,
>>
>>
>>     Part of your heat treatise was evaporated by yahoo, feel free to
>>     send to my email, very interesting topic that bummed me out when
>>     I hit "Would" and nothing further!
>>
>>     In respect to my wireless energy experiment I have found PNP to
>>     be superior to NPN, maybe they shut off faster being always on or
>>     maybe the end result is more hole ish.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>

I'll send info on Peltier solar collecters vs photovoltaic when I find 
the files!


On 7/8/2018 9:07 AM, bart woodard [email protected] [EVGRAY] wrote:
>
> Norman
>
> � I have played around with similar info.
>
> Yesterday while cleaning the garage I found a pile of peltiers lol
>
> marlow industries, inc.
>
> DT12-2.5
>
> 2050011
>
> I do not recall any values now, only it was a thought that if 
> something was constructed with your mra� values. Hence ion generator 
> using Tess s
>
> values.
>
> Then an open endless flow battery could be utilized for charging and 
> heating. Utilizing my heat pump now constructed.
>
> Having North and South charges exposed to chemical reactions. Lazar 
> mentioned to me I use salt.
>
> Here is an example on an illustration....... look at the drawing 
> around 50 minutes in
>
>
>
>
> https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5vfkr9
>
> <https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5vfkr9>
> 	
> SEARCH FOR THE SUPER BATTERY - NOVA - Science Documentaries (full 
> documentary) - Video Dailymotion 
> <https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5vfkr9>
> www.dailymotion.com
> Search for the Super Battery - NOVA (full documentary) documentary 
> documentaries full complete length history discovery science 
> technology tech educational channel learning pbs batteries power 
> energy resource
>
> I mentioned this with showing Donald Sadoway from MIT two years or so 
> ago having sat in on 29 of his lectures.
>
> As I had already drawn this out before hand� . So it was very 
> enlightening to see it applied scientifically.
>
> I have done similar metals building my hho reactor. Currently still 
> melting and cooking !
>
> Hopefully this makes some sense.
>
> Bart
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of 
> Norman Wootan [email protected] [EVGRAY] <[email protected]>
> *Sent:* July 7, 2018 8:56 PM
> *To:* [email protected]
> *Subject:* Re: Fwd: Re: [EVGRAY] General info!
>
> Try this one:
>
> What is Heat #3
>
> For about 10 years I have been studying the effects of
>
> heating and cooling associated with the phase change of
>
> liquids with the hope of building a simple generator of
>
> electrical power around the phenomenon.The reason for this
>
> interest is based on the theory that energy can be extracted
>
> from the ambient background via thermal differentials.My
>
> line of thinking really took off back when I experimented
>
> with the all too familiar Peltier junction devices found in
>
> electronic cooling devices.Would you believe that most
>
> people do not understand how these devices move thermal
>
> energy through a current flow across a semiconductor
>
> junction.Historically we find that German physicist,
>
> Thomas Seebeck back in 1820 observed that when heat was
>
> applied to a junction of copper and steel wire that
>
> electrical energy resulted.Later in 1834 Jean Peltier
>
> discovered that when a direct current was applied to two
>
> Dissimilar metals the junction got hot or cold.It was not
>
> Until 1838 that Emil Lenz clearly showed the importance of
>
> Both Seebeck and Peltier s discoveries by placing a drop of
>
> Water on the junction of dissimilar metals which froze then
>
> Melted when the polarity of the direct current was
>
> Reversed.These discoveries remained dormant for over 100
>
> Years because of the unavailability of semiconductor
>
> Materials which could provide the wide temperature
>
> Differentials.In the 1930 s semiconductor materials became
>
> Available which revived the electric cooling principles.In
>
> The 1960 s many companies began building spot cooling
>
> Devices and refrigerators based on these effects using a
>
> Junction material of bismuth-telluride. Today more advanced
>
> Materials are used with the basic parameters of being a pore
>
> Thermal conductor but being an excellent electrical
>
> Conductor. The dissimilar materials must provide a high
>
> Coefficient of voltage temperature relationship.The first
>
> Peltier devices that I experimented with back about 10 years
>
> ago were built by Marlow Industries here in Dallas.With a
>
> small temperature differential across the device a weak
>
> current with an attendant voltage was developed.Increasing
>
> the differential provided a proportional increase in current
>
> and voltage.About 6 years ago I posted a chart of the
>
> wattage generated from two different size Peltier chips on
>
> the Keely Net BBS.My curiosity was based on the puzzle of
>
> how electron flow could move thermal energy across the
>
> junctions and how electrical energy was produced by moving
>
> thermal energy across the junction.This is a directly
>
> reversible situation based on polarity.
>
> Now let us look at a very familiar parallel process used in
>
> refrigeration, cooling and heating devices employing phase
>
> change material such as water and refrigerants.We have
>
> always been led to believe that evaporating water provided
>
> cooling effects which is a mechanical process. By the same
>
> mechanical process we are provided heating effects by the
>
> condensation of a gas back to a liquid phase change.Would
>
> you believe that any material that undergoes a phase change
>
> provides an attendant electrical effect.Back in 1840
>
> Armstrong invented an electrostatic generator based on
>
> escaping steam through insulated nozzles which provided one
>
> of the most powerful devices of this type ever built.
>
> Popular belief was that this was a frictional process with
>
> the electrical output resulting from the steam friction
>
> passing through the nozzles.After reading an old (1920 s)
>
> Thermodynamics in Chemistry text book I realized that the
>
> phase change of materials was an electrical phenomenon and
>
> not purely mechanical.The atoms of the material lose or
>
> gain electrons in the process which accounts for the
>
> discrepancy in the energy equation when a material
>
> transitions between phases.More energy is present after
>
> the phase change back to the lower form or atomic state. The
>
> text book stated that this phenomenon could not be
>
> explained.When Jerry and I attended a Conference hosted by
>
> Hal Puthoff down in Austin back about 6 years ago a
>
> Physicist from Austria presented a paper on the phase change
>
> of water and the attendant electrical phenomenon which is
>
> totally not understood by modern science.Now my suspicions
>
> were confirmed that phase changes of materials are an
>
> electrostatic phenomenon, which leads us to the fundamental
>
> question of,What is heat?We were told in theschool
>
> that heat is the presence of energy and cool is the absence
>
> of energy.What is the form of this energy?Let us look at
>
> a very simple example of heating which may explain this
>
> process.When sunlight strikes an absorbing surface it is
>
> heated because electrons in the material are converted to
>
> photons which are emitted in the infrared band of light
>
> leaving the material in a net positive state or hot.The
>
> more electrons a material loses the hotter it becomes.Now
>
> the inverse situation is explored by evaporating some water
>
> from the surface of a material which leaves the surface in a
>
> net negative state or cold.Heat or cold is based on the
>
> ion relationship in the material.When we apply a flame
>
> (ionizing) to a material we cause the emission of photons
>
> which is basically stripping away electrons from the atomic
>
> structure causing a gross net positive situation to occur.
>
> Now we are getting a picture as to how an electric current
>
> across the Peltier junction can transport thermal energy
>
> (ions).Since the energy is in the form of presence or
>
> absence of electrons then it is a simple explanation as to
>
> how the process works.All phase change processes work the
>
> same way basically via ion transport and are not mechanical
>
> processes which we were taught.Everythingin chemistry is
>
> an electrical or electrostatic process at the atomic level
>
> based on the ionized state of the atoms involved.
>
> At a Vanguard Science Roundtable discussion several years ago
>
> we talked about the ion wind method of fire fighting in
>
> which ionized air will extinguish a flame because of the
>
> cooling effects.Now we see Patents issued based on
>
> negative ion spraying of a surface causing it to rapidly
>
> cool because it becomes net negative charged.This is a
>
> very efficient method of air-conditioning because an ion
>
> generator operates at very high voltages with very little
>
> current involved.It is possible to develop this ion
>
> transport (thermal energy) to provide direct electrical
>
> output from very subtle temperature differentials.Remember
>
> that this is a direct reversible process where a thermal
>
> differential will cause a development of current and voltage
>
> as in the Peltier device.I hope that this dialog will
>
> provide some food for thought out there on the Keely Net.
>
> Please provide some feedback on this very interesting line
>
> of experimentation.Norm
>
>
> On 7/7/2018 5:38 PM, [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> 
> [EVGRAY] wrote:
>>
>> Norm,
>>
>>
>> Part of your heat treatise was evaporated by yahoo, feel free to send 
>> to my email, very interesting topic that bummed me out when I hit 
>> "Would" and nothing further!
>>
>> In respect to my wireless energy experiment I have found PNP to be 
>> superior to NPN, maybe they shut off faster being always on or maybe 
>> the end result is more hole ish.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>

Norman

  I have played around with similar info.

Yesterday while cleaning the garage I found a pile of peltiers lol

marlow industries, inc.

DT12-2.5

2050011

I do not recall any values now, only it was a thought that if something was constructed with your mra  values. Hence ion generator using Tess s

values.

Then an open endless flow battery could be utilized for charging and heating. Utilizing my heat pump now constructed.

Having North and South charges exposed to chemical reactions. Lazar mentioned to me I use salt.

Here is an example on an illustration....... look at the drawing around 50 minutes in




https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5vfkr9

[https://s2-ssl.dmcdn.net/lYVQj/526x297-omA.jpg]<https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5vfkr9>

SEARCH FOR THE SUPER BATTERY - NOVA - Science Documentaries (full documentary) - Video Dailymotion<https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5vfkr9>
www.dailymotion.com
Search for the Super Battery - NOVA (full documentary) documentary documentaries full complete length history discovery science technology tech educational channel learning pbs batteries power energy resource

I mentioned this with showing Donald Sadoway from MIT two years or so ago having sat in on 29 of his lectures.

As I had already drawn this out before hand  . So it was very enlightening to see it applied scientifically.

I have done similar metals building my hho reactor. Currently still melting and cooking !

Hopefully this makes some sense.

Bart



________________________________
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of Norman Wootan [email protected] [EVGRAY] <[email protected]>
Sent: July 7, 2018 8:56 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: [EVGRAY] General info!



Try this one:

                     What is Heat #3









For about 10 years I have been studying the effects of

heating and cooling associated with the phase change of

liquids with the hope of building a simple generator of

electrical power around the phenomenon.  The reason for this

interest is based on the theory that energy can be extracted

from the ambient background via thermal differentials.  My

line of thinking really took off back when I experimented

with the all too familiar Peltier junction devices found in

electronic cooling devices.  Would you believe that most

people do not understand how these devices move thermal

energy through a current flow across a semiconductor

junction.  Historically we find that German physicist,

Thomas Seebeck back in 1820 observed that when heat was

applied to a junction of copper and steel wire that

electrical energy resulted.  Later in 1834 Jean Peltier

discovered that when a direct current was applied to two

Dissimilar metals the junction got hot or cold.  It was not

Until 1838 that Emil Lenz clearly showed the importance of

Both Seebeck and Peltier s discoveries by placing a drop of

Water on the junction of dissimilar metals which froze then

Melted when the polarity of the direct current was

Reversed.  These discoveries remained dormant for over 100

Years because of the unavailability of semiconductor

Materials which could provide the wide temperature

Differentials.  In the 1930 s semiconductor materials became

Available which revived the electric cooling principles.  In

The 1960 s many companies began building spot cooling

Devices and refrigerators based on these effects using a

Junction material of bismuth-telluride. Today more advanced

Materials are used with the basic parameters of being a pore

Thermal conductor but being an excellent electrical

Conductor. The dissimilar materials must provide a high

Coefficient of voltage temperature relationship.  The first

Peltier devices that I experimented with back about 10 years

ago were built by Marlow Industries here in Dallas.   With a

small temperature differential across the device a weak

current with an attendant voltage was developed.  Increasing

the differential provided a proportional increase in current

and voltage.  About 6 years ago I posted a chart of the

wattage generated from two different size Peltier chips on

the Keely Net BBS.   My curiosity was based on the puzzle of

how electron flow could move thermal energy across the

junctions and how electrical energy was produced by moving

thermal energy across the junction.  This is a directly

reversible situation based on polarity.

Now let us look at a very familiar parallel process used in

refrigeration, cooling and heating devices employing phase

change material such as water and refrigerants.  We have

always been led to believe that evaporating water provided

cooling effects which is a mechanical process. By the same

mechanical process we are provided heating effects by the

condensation of a gas back to a liquid phase change.  Would

you believe that any material that undergoes a phase change

provides an attendant electrical effect.   Back in 1840

Armstrong invented an electrostatic generator based on

escaping steam through insulated nozzles which provided one

of the most powerful devices of this type ever built.

Popular belief was that this was a frictional process with

the electrical output resulting from the steam friction

passing through the nozzles.   After reading an old (1920 s)

Thermodynamics in Chemistry text book I realized that the

phase change of materials was an electrical phenomenon and

not purely mechanical.  The atoms of the material lose or

gain electrons in the process which accounts for the

discrepancy in the energy equation when a material

transitions between phases.  More energy is present after

the phase change back to the lower form or atomic state. The

text book stated that this phenomenon could not be

explained.  When Jerry and I attended a Conference hosted by

Hal Puthoff down in Austin back about 6 years ago a

Physicist from Austria presented a paper on the phase change

of water and the attendant electrical phenomenon which is

totally not understood by modern science.  Now my suspicions

were confirmed that phase changes of materials are an

electrostatic phenomenon, which leads us to the fundamental

question of,  What is heat?    We were told in the  school

that heat is the presence of energy and cool is the absence

of energy.  What is the form of this energy?  Let us look at

a very simple example of heating which may explain this

process.  When sunlight strikes an absorbing surface it is

heated because electrons in the material are converted to

photons which are emitted in the infrared band of light

leaving the material in a net positive state or hot.  The

more electrons a material loses the hotter it becomes.  Now

the inverse situation is explored by evaporating some water

from the surface of a material which leaves the surface in a

net negative state or cold.  Heat or cold is based on the

ion relationship in the material.  When we apply a flame

(ionizing) to a material we cause the emission of photons

which is basically stripping away electrons from the atomic

structure causing a gross net positive situation to occur.

Now we are getting a picture as to how an electric current

across the Peltier junction can transport thermal energy

(ions).  Since the energy is in the form of presence or

absence of electrons then it is a simple explanation as to

how the process works.  All phase change processes work the

same way basically via ion transport and are not mechanical

processes which we were taught.  Everything  in chemistry is

an electrical or electrostatic process at the atomic level

based on the ionized state of the atoms involved.

At a Vanguard Science Roundtable discussion several years ago

we talked about the ion wind method of fire fighting in

which ionized air will extinguish a flame because of the

cooling effects.  Now we see Patents issued based on

negative ion spraying of a surface causing it to rapidly

cool because it becomes net negative charged.  This is a

very efficient method of air-conditioning because an ion

generator operates at very high voltages with very little

current involved.   It is possible to develop this ion

transport (thermal energy) to provide direct electrical

output from very subtle temperature differentials.  Remember

that this is a direct reversible process where a thermal

differential will cause a development of current and voltage

as in the Peltier device.   I hope that this dialog will

provide some food for thought out there on the Keely Net.

Please provide some feedback on this very interesting line

of experimentation.   Norm

On 7/7/2018 5:38 PM, [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> [EVGRAY] wrote:


Norm,

Part of your heat treatise was evaporated by yahoo, feel free to send to my email, very interesting topic that bummed me out when I hit "Would" and nothing further!

In respect to my wireless energy experiment I have found PNP to be superior to NPN, maybe they shut off faster being always on or maybe the end result is more hole ish.

NormanIf we can make test units, it would be good.Cheers Warren

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
 
  On Sun, 8 Jul 2018 at 11:43 AM, Norman Wootan [email protected] [EVGRAY]<[email protected]> wrote:       
 

I am searching my files as we write looking for Peltier tables of output. If sheets of bonded junctions would be made, this approach has 10X energy output over the photovoltaic approach per square ft. of space.  Uses only temp differential from the ambient environment.
 
 
 On 7/8/2018 2:54 AM, Warren Keillor [email protected] [EVGRAY] wrote:
  
    

 Norman
 You have written the best essay on this subject I have ever read. What an interesting concept, well researched. By carefully stating the subject, you also leave the door open to further research on a collective basis, for a group effort to build practical applications. This paper deserves recognition in a serious scientific journal. Cheers Warren
 Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
 
  On Sat, 7 Jul 2018 at 8:56 PM, Norman Wootan [email protected] [EVGRAY] <[email protected]> wrote:          
 
 
Try this one:
 
 
 
                     What is Heat #3
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
For about 10 years I have been studying the effects of
 
heating and cooling associated with the phase change of
 
liquids with the hope of building a simple generator of
 
electrical power around the phenomenon.  The reason for this
 
interest is based on the theory that energy can be extracted
 
from the ambient background via thermal differentials.  My
 
line of thinking really took off back when I experimented
 
with the all too familiar Peltier junction devices found in
 
electronic cooling devices.  Would you believe that most
 
people do not understand how these devices move thermal
 
energy through a current flow across a semiconductor
 
junction.  Historically we find that German physicist,
 
Thomas Seebeck back in 1820 observed that when heat was
 
applied to a junction of copper and steel wire that
 
electrical energy resulted.  Later in 1834 Jean Peltier
 
discovered that when a direct current was applied to two
 
Dissimilar metals the junction got hot or cold.  It was not
 
Until 1838 that Emil Lenz clearly showed the importance of
 
Both Seebeck and Peltier s discoveries by placing a drop of
 
Water on the junction of dissimilar metals which froze then
 
Melted when the polarity of the direct current was
 
Reversed.  These discoveries remained dormant for over 100
 
Years because of the unavailability of semiconductor
 
Materials which could provide the wide temperature
 
Differentials.  In the 1930 s semiconductor materials became
 
Available which revived the electric cooling principles.  In
 
The 1960 s many companies began building spot cooling
 
Devices and refrigerators based on these effects using a
 
Junction material of bismuth-telluride. Today more advanced
 
Materials are used with the basic parameters of being a pore
 
Thermal conductor but being an excellent electrical
 
Conductor. The dissimilar materials must provide a high
 
Coefficient of voltage temperature relationship.  The first
 
Peltier devices that I experimented with back about 10 years
 
ago were built by Marlow Industries here in Dallas.   With a
 
small temperature differential across the device a weak
 
current with an attendant voltage was developed.  Increasing
 
the differential provided a proportional increase in current
 
and voltage.  About 6 years ago I posted a chart of the
 
wattage generated from two different size Peltier chips on
 
the Keely Net BBS.   My curiosity was based on the puzzle of
 
how electron flow could move thermal energy across the
 
junctions and how electrical energy was produced by moving
 
thermal energy across the junction.  This is a directly
 
reversible situation based on polarity.
 
Now let us look at a very familiar parallel process used in
 
refrigeration, cooling and heating devices employing phase
 
change material such as water and refrigerants.  We have
 
always been led to believe that evaporating water provided
 
cooling effects which is a mechanical process. By the same
 
mechanical process we are provided heating effects by the
 
condensation of a gas back to a liquid phase change.  Would 
 
you believe that any material that undergoes a phase change
 
provides an attendant electrical effect.   Back in 1840
 
Armstrong invented an electrostatic generator based on
 
escaping steam through insulated nozzles which provided one
 
of the most powerful devices of this type ever built.
 
Popular belief was that this was a frictional process with
 
the electrical output resulting from the steam friction
 
passing through the nozzles.   After reading an old (1920 s)
 
Thermodynamics in Chemistry text book I realized that the
 
phase change of materials was an electrical phenomenon and
 
not purely mechanical.  The atoms of the material lose or
 
gain electrons in the process which accounts for the
 
discrepancy in the energy equation when a material
 
transitions between phases.  More energy is present after
 
the phase change back to the lower form or atomic state. The
 
text book stated that this phenomenon could not be
 
explained.  When Jerry and I attended a Conference hosted by
 
Hal Puthoff down in Austin back about 6 years ago a
 
Physicist from Austria presented a paper on the phase change
 
of water and the attendant electrical phenomenon which is
 
totally not understood by modern science.  Now my suspicions
 
were confirmed that phase changes of materials are an
 
electrostatic phenomenon, which leads us to the fundamental
 
question of,  What is heat?    We were told in the  school 
 
that heat is the presence of energy and cool is the absence
 
of energy.  What is the form of this energy?  Let us look at
 
a very simple example of heating which may explain this
 
process.  When sunlight strikes an absorbing surface it is
 
heated because electrons in the material are converted to
 
photons which are emitted in the infrared band of light
 
leaving the material in a net positive state or hot.  The
 
more electrons a material loses the hotter it becomes.  Now
 
the inverse situation is explored by evaporating some water
 
from the surface of a material which leaves the surface in a
 
net negative state or cold.  Heat or cold is based on the
 
ion relationship in the material.  When we apply a flame
 
(ionizing) to a material we cause the emission of photons
 
which is basically stripping away electrons from the atomic
 
structure causing a gross net positive situation to occur.
 
Now we are getting a picture as to how an electric current
 
across the Peltier junction can transport thermal energy
 
(ions).  Since the energy is in the form of presence or
 
absence of electrons then it is a simple explanation as to
 
how the process works.  All phase change processes work the
 
same way basically via ion transport and are not mechanical
 
processes which we were taught.  Everything  in chemistry is
 
an electrical or electrostatic process at the atomic level
 
based on the ionized state of the atoms involved.
 
At a Vanguard Science Roundtable discussion several years ago
 
we talked about the ion wind method of fire fighting in
 
which ionized air will extinguish a flame because of the
 
cooling effects.  Now we see Patents issued based on
 
negative ion spraying of a surface causing it to rapidly
 
cool because it becomes net negative charged.  This is a
 
very efficient method of air-conditioning because an ion
 generator operates at very high voltages with very little 
 
 
current involved.   It is possible to develop this ion
 
transport (thermal energy) to provide direct electrical
 
output from very subtle temperature differentials.  Remember
 
that this is a direct reversible process where a thermal
 
differential will cause a development of current and voltage
 
as in the Peltier device.   I hope that this dialog will
 
provide some food for thought out there on the Keely Net.
 
Please provide some feedback on this very interesting line
 
of experimentation.   Norm
 
 
 
  On 7/7/2018 5:38 PM, [email protected] [EVGRAY] wrote:
  
    
Norm, 
 
 Part of your heat treatise was evaporated by yahoo, feel free to send to my email, very interesting topic that bummed me out when I hit "Would" and nothing further! 
  In respect to my wireless energy experiment I have found PNP to be superior to NPN, maybe they shut off faster being always on or maybe the end result is more hole ish. 
  
  
  
  
    
  
       
   
 
  #yiv7547707167 #yiv7547707167 -- #yiv7547707167ygrp-mkp {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:10px 0;padding:0 10px;}#yiv7547707167 #yiv7547707167ygrp-mkp hr {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;}#yiv7547707167 #yiv7547707167ygrp-mkp #yiv7547707167hd {color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:700;line-height:122%;margin:10px 0;}#yiv7547707167 #yiv7547707167ygrp-mkp #yiv7547707167ads {margin-bottom:10px;}#yiv7547707167 #yiv7547707167ygrp-mkp .yiv7547707167ad {padding:0 0;}#yiv7547707167 #yiv7547707167ygrp-mkp .yiv7547707167ad p {margin:0;}#yiv7547707167 #yiv7547707167ygrp-mkp .yiv7547707167ad a {color:#0000ff;text-decoration:none;}#yiv7547707167 #yiv7547707167ygrp-sponsor #yiv7547707167ygrp-lc {font-family:Arial;}#yiv7547707167 #yiv7547707167ygrp-sponsor #yiv7547707167ygrp-lc #yiv7547707167hd {margin:10px 0px;font-weight:700;font-size:78%;line-height:122%;}#yiv7547707167 #yiv7547707167ygrp-sponsor #yiv7547707167ygrp-lc .yiv7547707167ad {margin-bottom:10px;padding:0 0;}#yiv7547707167 #yiv7547707167actions {font-family:Verdana;font-size:11px;padding:10px 0;}#yiv7547707167 #yiv7547707167activity {background-color:#e0ecee;float:left;font-family:Verdana;font-size:10px;padding:10px;}#yiv7547707167 #yiv7547707167activity span {font-weight:700;}#yiv7547707167 #yiv7547707167activity span:first-child {text-transform:uppercase;}#yiv7547707167 #yiv7547707167activity span a {color:#5085b6;text-decoration:none;}#yiv7547707167 #yiv7547707167activity span span {color:#ff7900;}#yiv7547707167 #yiv7547707167activity span .yiv7547707167underline {text-decoration:underline;}#yiv7547707167 .yiv7547707167attach {clear:both;display:table;font-family:Arial;font-size:12px;padding:10px 0;width:400px;}#yiv7547707167 .yiv7547707167attach div a {text-decoration:none;}#yiv7547707167 .yiv7547707167attach img {border:none;padding-right:5px;}#yiv7547707167 .yiv7547707167attach label {display:block;margin-bottom:5px;}#yiv7547707167 .yiv7547707167attach label a {text-decoration:none;}#yiv7547707167 blockquote {margin:0 0 0 4px;}#yiv7547707167 .yiv7547707167bold {font-family:Arial;font-size:13px;font-weight:700;}#yiv7547707167 .yiv7547707167bold a {text-decoration:none;}#yiv7547707167 dd.yiv7547707167last p a {font-family:Verdana;font-weight:700;}#yiv7547707167 dd.yiv7547707167last p span {margin-right:10px;font-family:Verdana;font-weight:700;}#yiv7547707167 dd.yiv7547707167last p span.yiv7547707167yshortcuts {margin-right:0;}#yiv7547707167 div.yiv7547707167attach-table div div a {text-decoration:none;}#yiv7547707167 div.yiv7547707167attach-table {width:400px;}#yiv7547707167 div.yiv7547707167file-title a, #yiv7547707167 div.yiv7547707167file-title a:active, #yiv7547707167 div.yiv7547707167file-title a:hover, #yiv7547707167 div.yiv7547707167file-title a:visited {text-decoration:none;}#yiv7547707167 div.yiv7547707167photo-title a, #yiv7547707167 div.yiv7547707167photo-title a:active, #yiv7547707167 div.yiv7547707167photo-title a:hover, #yiv7547707167 div.yiv7547707167photo-title a:visited {text-decoration:none;}#yiv7547707167 div#yiv7547707167ygrp-mlmsg #yiv7547707167ygrp-msg p a span.yiv7547707167yshortcuts {font-family:Verdana;font-size:10px;font-weight:normal;}#yiv7547707167 .yiv7547707167green {color:#628c2a;}#yiv7547707167 .yiv7547707167MsoNormal {margin:0 0 0 0;}#yiv7547707167 o {font-size:0;}#yiv7547707167 #yiv7547707167photos div {float:left;width:72px;}#yiv7547707167 #yiv7547707167photos div div {border:1px solid #666666;min-height:62px;overflow:hidden;width:62px;}#yiv7547707167 #yiv7547707167photos div label {color:#666666;font-size:10px;overflow:hidden;text-align:center;white-space:nowrap;width:64px;}#yiv7547707167 #yiv7547707167reco-category {font-size:77%;}#yiv7547707167 #yiv7547707167reco-desc {font-size:77%;}#yiv7547707167 .yiv7547707167replbq {margin:4px;}#yiv7547707167 #yiv7547707167ygrp-actbar div a:first-child {margin-right:2px;padding-right:5px;}#yiv7547707167 #yiv7547707167ygrp-mlmsg {font-size:13px;font-family:Arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif;}#yiv7547707167 #yiv7547707167ygrp-mlmsg table {font-size:inherit;font:100%;}#yiv7547707167 #yiv7547707167ygrp-mlmsg select, #yiv7547707167 input, #yiv7547707167 textarea {font:99% Arial, Helvetica, clean, sans-serif;}#yiv7547707167 #yiv7547707167ygrp-mlmsg pre, #yiv7547707167 code {font:115% monospace;}#yiv7547707167 #yiv7547707167ygrp-mlmsg * {line-height:1.22em;}#yiv7547707167 #yiv7547707167ygrp-mlmsg #yiv7547707167logo {padding-bottom:10px;}#yiv7547707167 #yiv7547707167ygrp-msg p a {font-family:Verdana;}#yiv7547707167 #yiv7547707167ygrp-msg p#yiv7547707167attach-count span {color:#1E66AE;font-weight:700;}#yiv7547707167 #yiv7547707167ygrp-reco #yiv7547707167reco-head {color:#ff7900;font-weight:700;}#yiv7547707167 #yiv7547707167ygrp-reco {margin-bottom:20px;padding:0px;}#yiv7547707167 #yiv7547707167ygrp-sponsor #yiv7547707167ov li a {font-size:130%;text-decoration:none;}#yiv7547707167 #yiv7547707167ygrp-sponsor #yiv7547707167ov li {font-size:77%;list-style-type:square;padding:6px 0;}#yiv7547707167 #yiv7547707167ygrp-sponsor #yiv7547707167ov ul {margin:0;padding:0 0 0 8px;}#yiv7547707167 #yiv7547707167ygrp-text {font-family:Georgia;}#yiv7547707167 #yiv7547707167ygrp-text p {margin:0 0 1em 0;}#yiv7547707167 #yiv7547707167ygrp-text tt {font-size:120%;}#yiv7547707167 #yiv7547707167ygrp-vital ul li:last-child {border-right:none !important;}#yiv7547707167

Mick,
Just in case you are interested I've attached a chapter from my unpublished book, on allergies.  Hope it helps.

George

Warren, I put together a one square ft. laminated panel that had 100 
Peltier chips that proved the concept and yes, they do produce 10X more 
output per square meter of collector surface over the photovoltaic 
collectors with just the differential of 100 degrees F. It would take a 
pilot program funded to make sheets of these junctions.  Dollars $$$$. 
Purchasing the Peltiers from Alibaba, China is the lowest prices I have 
found for the Generator chips. (bulk buy).   BTW! They do make both 
chips, refrigeration and generator versions.  Norm


On 7/8/2018 12:36 PM, Warren Keillor [email protected] 
[EVGRAY] wrote:
>
> Norman
>
> If we can make test units, it would be good.
> Cheers Warren
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
> <https://go.onelink.me/107872968?pid=InProduct&c=Global_Internal_YGrowth_AndroidEmailSig__AndroidUsers&af_wl=ym&af_sub1=Internal&af_sub2=Global_YGrowth&af_sub3=EmailSignature>
>
>     On Sun, 8 Jul 2018 at 11:43 AM, Norman Wootan [email protected] [EVGRAY]
>     <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>     I am searching my files as we write looking for Peltier tables of
>     output. If sheets of bonded junctions would be made, this approach
>     has 10X energy output over the photovoltaic approach per square
>     ft. of space.  Uses only temp differential from the ambient
>     environment.
>
>
>     On 7/8/2018 2:54 AM, Warren Keillor [email protected]
>     <mailto:[email protected]> [EVGRAY] wrote:
>>
>>
>>     Norman
>>
>>     You have written the best essay on this subject I have ever read.
>>     What an interesting concept, well researched.
>>     By carefully stating the subject, you also leave the door open to
>>     further research on a collective basis, for a group effort to
>>     build practical applications.
>>     This paper deserves recognition in a serious scientific journal.
>>     Cheers Warren
>>     Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
>>     <https://go.onelink.me/107872968?pid=InProduct&c=Global_Internal_YGrowth_AndroidEmailSig__AndroidUsers&af_wl=ym&af_sub1=Internal&af_sub2=Global_YGrowth&af_sub3=EmailSignature>
>>
>>         On Sat, 7 Jul 2018 at 8:56 PM, Norman Wootan [email protected]
>>         <mailto:[email protected]> [EVGRAY]
>>         <[email protected]> <mailto:[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>         Try this one:
>>
>>         What is Heat #3
>>
>>         For about 10 years I have been studying the effects of
>>
>>         heating and cooling associated with the phase change of
>>
>>         liquids with the hope of building a simple generator of
>>
>>         electrical power around the phenomenon.The reason for this
>>
>>         interest is based on the theory that energy can be extracted
>>
>>         from the ambient background via thermal differentials.My
>>
>>         line of thinking really took off back when I experimented
>>
>>         with the all too familiar Peltier junction devices found in
>>
>>         electronic cooling devices.Would you believe that most
>>
>>         people do not understand how these devices move thermal
>>
>>         energy through a current flow across a semiconductor
>>
>>         junction.Historically we find that German physicist,
>>
>>         Thomas Seebeck back in 1820 observed that when heat was
>>
>>         applied to a junction of copper and steel wire that
>>
>>         electrical energy resulted.Later in 1834 Jean Peltier
>>
>>         discovered that when a direct current was applied to two
>>
>>         Dissimilar metals the junction got hot or cold.It was not
>>
>>         Until 1838 that Emil Lenz clearly showed the importance of
>>
>>         Both Seebeck and Peltier s discoveries by placing a drop of
>>
>>         Water on the junction of dissimilar metals which froze then
>>
>>         Melted when the polarity of the direct current was
>>
>>         Reversed.These discoveries remained dormant for over 100
>>
>>         Years because of the unavailability of semiconductor
>>
>>         Materials which could provide the wide temperature
>>
>>         Differentials.In the 1930 s semiconductor materials became
>>
>>         Available which revived the electric cooling principles.In
>>
>>         The 1960 s many companies began building spot cooling
>>
>>         Devices and refrigerators based on these effects using a
>>
>>         Junction material of bismuth-telluride. Today more advanced
>>
>>         Materials are used with the basic parameters of being a pore
>>
>>         Thermal conductor but being an excellent electrical
>>
>>         Conductor. The dissimilar materials must provide a high
>>
>>         Coefficient of voltage temperature relationship.The first
>>
>>         Peltier devices that I experimented with back about 10 years
>>
>>         ago were built by Marlow Industries here in Dallas.With a
>>
>>         small temperature differential across the device a weak
>>
>>         current with an attendant voltage was developed.Increasing
>>
>>         the differential provided a proportional increase in current
>>
>>         and voltage.About 6 years ago I posted a chart of the
>>
>>         wattage generated from two different size Peltier chips on
>>
>>         the Keely Net BBS.My curiosity was based on the puzzle of
>>
>>         how electron flow could move thermal energy across the
>>
>>         junctions and how electrical energy was produced by moving
>>
>>         thermal energy across the junction.This is a directly
>>
>>         reversible situation based on polarity.
>>
>>         Now let us look at a very familiar parallel process used in
>>
>>         refrigeration, cooling and heating devices employing phase
>>
>>         change material such as water and refrigerants.We have
>>
>>         always been led to believe that evaporating water provided
>>
>>         cooling effects which is a mechanical process. By the same
>>
>>         mechanical process we are provided heating effects by the
>>
>>         condensation of a gas back to a liquid phase change.Would
>>
>>         you believe that any material that undergoes a phase change
>>
>>         provides an attendant electrical effect.Back in 1840
>>
>>         Armstrong invented an electrostatic generator based on
>>
>>         escaping steam through insulated nozzles which provided one
>>
>>         of the most powerful devices of this type ever built.
>>
>>         Popular belief was that this was a frictional process with
>>
>>         the electrical output resulting from the steam friction
>>
>>         passing through the nozzles.After reading an old (1920 s)
>>
>>         Thermodynamics in Chemistry text book I realized that the
>>
>>         phase change of materials was an electrical phenomenon and
>>
>>         not purely mechanical.The atoms of the material lose or
>>
>>         gain electrons in the process which accounts for the
>>
>>         discrepancy in the energy equation when a material
>>
>>         transitions between phases.More energy is present after
>>
>>         the phase change back to the lower form or atomic state. The
>>
>>         text book stated that this phenomenon could not be
>>
>>         explained.When Jerry and I attended a Conference hosted by
>>
>>         Hal Puthoff down in Austin back about 6 years ago a
>>
>>         Physicist from Austria presented a paper on the phase change
>>
>>         of water and the attendant electrical phenomenon which is
>>
>>         totally not understood by modern science.Now my suspicions
>>
>>         were confirmed that phase changes of materials are an
>>
>>         electrostatic phenomenon, which leads us to the fundamental
>>
>>         question of,What is heat?We were told in theschool
>>
>>         that heat is the presence of energy and cool is the absence
>>
>>         of energy.What is the form of this energy?Let us look at
>>
>>         a very simple example of heating which may explain this
>>
>>         process.When sunlight strikes an absorbing surface it is
>>
>>         heated because electrons in the material are converted to
>>
>>         photons which are emitted in the infrared band of light
>>
>>         leaving the material in a net positive state or hot.The
>>
>>         more electrons a material loses the hotter it becomes.Now
>>
>>         the inverse situation is explored by evaporating some water
>>
>>         from the surface of a material which leaves the surface in a
>>
>>         net negative state or cold.Heat or cold is based on the
>>
>>         ion relationship in the material.When we apply a flame
>>
>>         (ionizing) to a material we cause the emission of photons
>>
>>         which is basically stripping away electrons from the atomic
>>
>>         structure causing a gross net positive situation to occur.
>>
>>         Now we are getting a picture as to how an electric current
>>
>>         across the Peltier junction can transport thermal energy
>>
>>         (ions).Since the energy is in the form of presence or
>>
>>         absence of electrons then it is a simple explanation as to
>>
>>         how the process works.All phase change processes work the
>>
>>         same way basically via ion transport and are not mechanical
>>
>>         processes which we were taught.Everythingin chemistry is
>>
>>         an electrical or electrostatic process at the atomic level
>>
>>         based on the ionized state of the atoms involved.
>>
>>         At a Vanguard Science Roundtable discussion several years ago
>>
>>         we talked about the ion wind method of fire fighting in
>>
>>         which ionized air will extinguish a flame because of the
>>
>>         cooling effects.Now we see Patents issued based on
>>
>>         negative ion spraying of a surface causing it to rapidly
>>
>>         cool because it becomes net negative charged.This is a
>>
>>         very efficient method of air-conditioning because an ion
>>
>>         generator operates at very high voltages with very little
>>
>>         current involved.It is possible to develop this ion
>>
>>         transport (thermal energy) to provide direct electrical
>>
>>         output from very subtle temperature differentials.Remember
>>
>>         that this is a direct reversible process where a thermal
>>
>>         differential will cause a development of current and voltage
>>
>>         as in the Peltier device.I hope that this dialog will
>>
>>         provide some food for thought out there on the Keely Net.
>>
>>         Please provide some feedback on this very interesting line
>>
>>         of experimentation.Norm
>>
>>
>>         On 7/7/2018 5:38 PM, [email protected]
>>         <mailto:[email protected]> [EVGRAY] wrote:
>>>
>>>         Norm,
>>>
>>>
>>>         Part of your heat treatise was evaporated by yahoo, feel
>>>         free to send to my email, very interesting topic that bummed
>>>         me out when I hit "Would" and nothing further!
>>>
>>>         In respect to my wireless energy experiment I have found PNP
>>>         to be superior to NPN, maybe they shut off faster being
>>>         always on or maybe the end result is more hole ish.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>