Wild fires?

Good post on the climate MickGeorge

    On Wednesday, 12 December 2018, 12:46:16 pm AEDT, Mick [email protected] [EVGRAY] <[email protected]> wrote:  
 
     
 

Ole,
 
Go check the math the man made CO2 causing a problem is a farce.
 
CO2 which only emits at three hi Q nodes 10 point something microns 5 and one more is being calculated as a full bandwidth black body radiator, secondly there is no distinction between night and daytime in the calcs.
 Infra red is 1mm to 700 nanometers far wider than the 3 infra red nodes of excited CO2.  It takes a good amount of energy to excite co2 to release any energy.  Pretty much all the heat re-radiated by Co2 will take place within 10 meters of the ground. About the height of most trees.
 
 
  Any child knows a cloud passing overhead cools, only at night can water vapor the largest greenhouse gas trap and reflect energy. CO2 weighs more than nitrogen, it stays where plants like to turn it back to oxygen.  In fact there is a lake in Africa that is volcanic and burps CO2.  When this happens it travels into the valleys and suffocates all the local villages humans and animals, because it is too heavy to rise and displaces the oxygen and  nitrogen.   
 The ice core samples were flipped the wrong way initially it was reported that CO2 increase then temp increase.  Actually C02 increase was lagging the global heating by 600 or so years in the ice samples, did any revisions take place in the science, not at all, none I could find anyways.
 
 
Man made Co2 levels may be 3 percent of total, fluctuations from fires and volcanoes can often vary 20 percent from the normal natural levels that are a hell of a lot higher than the 3 percent of human use.
 
When one is a professor one only is awarded grants based on what the think tanks dictate, this is why no alternative energy as we are familiar with here is ever funded.  Yes I think all of us at this site want petroleum energy to go the way of the dinosaurs, but CO2 isn't the problem.   Carbon monoxide, sulfur dioxide, and many others are actually a poison not a symbiotic biological as is Co2
 
 
Now for the reality, when all the outlook is bad and fearful the sky is falling, nothing like Hey we can now grow crops at further northern latitudes!, or we are using less energy heating our homes.  No instead it's all gloom and doom and fear based and the seas are rising etc etc.  When one sees a binary conscientious one should expect to be bent over without lube.
 
 
So Al Gore and James blood create a futures exchange to trade carbon credit so one need only pay them to pollute more, hey problem solved just sign on the dotted line.  Most of the industry has been moved to China and India, they are exempted from the carbon emission limitations.  Sound like a scam yet.  
 We are about to hit a bifurcation point when the weather goes the other way and not slowly, quickly like turning a thermostat.  All the global warming distopian fear will be replaced by wishing it will heat up instead.  Sapiens are really an arrogant lot, pretending they can determine a problem of this magnitude with a temporal limited data set built on a pathetic excuse for the  scientific process in which empirical thought has been completely disregarded because the top of the pyramid has a plan for us all.  Have a view at odds to conscientious and one is labeled a heretic or a denier.  Sounds like the Spanish inquisition.  Throw another Bruno on the fire, we need some heat...
 
 
Now lets talk about real problems, bunker oil running the super cargo ships.  About 18 of these ships produce enough pollution in our oceans as all the cars combined on the planet, there are hundreds of these, maybe thousands shitting up the ocean with fuels so thick one can walk on it until it is preheated to burn in the engines.  Fracking causing the poisoning of our water tables across the planet but the EPA will not lift a hand because the fracking chemicals are a secret protected intellectual property so they allegedly can't know if they are damaging. The contrails from the new turbine bypass engines which burn much cooler hence stay suspended much longer are changing the planets temperature bigtime.  It was measured when during 911 no planes were flying.
 
I like CO2 and believe it to be a cooling gas based on my work with flowing gas CO2 lasers.  It makes plants grow and replaces out gassed and burned oxygen from our atmosphere so we can live, no CO2 no oxygen.  None of the claims from Gores silly movie have happened yet as the sea was supposed to rise many feet by now. A few MM over the last hundred years it has actually been measured to rise. The polar bears are all drowned, even though they can swim hundreds of miles in a go.
 
I am glad your country produces clean energy, this is something we should all aspire to but I will pray to keep my CO2 and revel in natures power as each season of change the CO2 is released and then re-absorbed and transmuted into breathable oxygen.
 
 

 
 On 12/11/2018 7:48 AM, [email protected] [EVGRAY] wrote:
  
      
Hi Mick,
 
 "Free markets rather than socially overseen bullshit ones like UN fucking carbon credits where CO2 is now some pollutant but paying Gore will fix the problem."
 Our government has come up with a climate plan that experts as well as industry says isn't ambitious enough to solve the problem. The glaciers of Greenland are melting at increasing rates. The permafrost of Siberia is melting too causing huge releases of methane gas which is a much  worse greenhouse gas than CO2. The CO2 level is at an extreme height. The melting of the ice of Greenland will cause big trouble for many highly populated areas along coastlines. This may cause millions of refugees from big cities when becoming uninhabitable. Therefore it is much cheaper to do something about the problem now than waiting a decade to solve it. This will make lots of jobs in creating solutions instead of having to evacuate big cities and coastlines. My small country is great in the world of producing wind turbines and energy efficient technology. We really need such non fossil energy alternatives if we want to still live above sea level. Evacuating a country and its high infrastructure will be  quite expensive. Besides where should all the people go when lots of area will be affected in other countries too? To make the wind power industry was expensive for the tax payers but now it is a big export article making the investment pay back as well as having free energy and cleaner air.
 
 The idea with the CO2 tax is to force people away from increasing the already huge fossil energy problem as well as paying for solutions. Investing the money in cleaner technology in the most polluting countries gives the best climate payback. Of course taxes aren't good in corrupt  places. Thus first get rid of corruption which requires open systems.
 
 Countries like India China Russia and USA have great potential to reduce CO2 emissions.
 
 Regards
 Ole
 
 
 
 ---In [email protected], <mkjekyll@...> wrote :
 
  
Kone,
 
I agree with your assessment and don't believe anyone should own resources outside their own country, perhaps a limited lease in exchange for building the infrastructure.  There is greed and lack of ethics in all systems socialist or capitalist.
 
 
Crony capitalism is evil.  War economies are evil, unchecked profit without ethics is evil. Lack of competition due to monopoly is evil. A system where one is able to live free and build competitive business in an ethical way is the ultimate for human  ascendance.  Unfortunately the US has been taken over by greedy people without ethics.  The government in Venezuela is fucked, this is why we have so many people migrating to Colombia starving and looking for work.  I speak to these people every day, no bullshit.  It is not the US fault what happened it is the fault of greedy pig socialist same as greedy pig capitalist.
 
Venezuela was a paradise and then the dictator forced out all the oil company engineers and other Venezuelan business professionals who knew what they were doing in order to give high paying jobs to military politicos who did not know shit but could  protect his ass.  All the profitable businesses were socialized in these ways.  From what the Venezuelan doctor told me the roots of all of the downfall was promulgated the most by Cuban social engineering much more so than US spook shit, though that was dirty pool no doubt.  Poor people who do not fight to better themselves or are limited for other reasons will always vote for the most free shit  but someone has to pay for it, sooner or later all the good businesses leave and their are no jobs. Free markets  rather than socially overseen bullshit ones like UN fucking carbon credits where CO2 is now some pollutant but paying Gore will fix the problem.  Total socialist top down control based business model.  The places I go where one can live well and has the best access to goods and services are free market vertically  integrated, all the socialist top down controlled have much less options to a person willing to perform learn and grow.  Unfortunately some people elicit a failure to thrive, in nature same thing happens with animals, existence takes fucking hard work.
 
 Doesn't matter the system human frailty is the sad part. Ideally we should have no government and be self governing but  sapiens are not grounded and ethical enough yet and likely never will be as long as they are taught UNESCO all suffering is due to someone else and they are simply victims of circumstance.  The truth about Venezuela is assholes took over and destroyed a healthy economy.  There were CIA shenanigans for sure but this is not the reason for the place sucking now.  Also Ecuador is changing to this shitty system where the socialist government thinks they can fix everything by taxing business's.  No one we spoke with who owned a pizza place or a market etc were using bank accounts anymore because their money kept being appropriated for public works with higher taxes every few months.  It is in a sad state now full of crime and hateful victim mentality.  Barely any selection at markets many shelves are not stocked.  Businesses are being forced offshore or closing so there is the truth witnessed firsthand.  Being that I live in South America I have the opportunity to assess these issues first hand.
 
 On 12/10/2018 4:15 PM, konehead@... [EVGRAY] wrote:
  
 
    
Pure bullshit propaganda "socialist" government being cause of big problems in venezuala. The fucking capitalist war monger pigs in wadhington dc are the problem, blockading, sanctioning. Starvng, sending in.metcenarie ( paid terrorists) from Columbia and whoever wants to make a CIA buck killing innocent plus Supposed humanitarian NGOs paying protestrs to start riots and all the other shit capitalist profit first evil pigs from hell will do.
 Its all standard procedure for CIA and State department anytime a "socialist" government .voted into office tells US capitalist orporations to get the fuck out of their country and will never allow US military base on their soil.
 Imagine the gal l to kick out US corporations who say they "own" land and industry in a country and give the land and industry to the citizens of the country!! Fuck that is reason to invade kill thousands of socialist peasants who would be better off dead than communist sympathizers eh...

Hi Mick
The top down socialist country of Belarus is pretty nice place to live and work. They don't invade other countries have near zero crime or corruption good economy very healthy people free college hospitals lots of consumer goods and cars cheap gas etc...really nice nobody owns or packs guns and nobody wants to since nobody needs them or cares about it one bit if they have a gun or not.
Of course maybe only 5% of USA population knows about country of Belarus, where it is or any history of it since being a successful socialist country is not anything to be talked about on US media or studied in schools.
Yugoslavia also was a very successful top-down socialist country but was intentionally broken apart looted then squashed into smalle warring factions to mske sure it would never be as it was again.
In south and central  america dont expect any country to be top down socialist country of great success as very quickly CKA will be there to fuck amy all things up.t
Howv you judge "succss"  in case of cuba for an example is that peolple are heslthy snd happy and their government not invading nearby countries like Nazis and they freed themselves from having to depend on USA mafia/cia corruption and free now from CIA hit squads and invasion plans too...cant say the same about Columbia now they have become no 1 proxy USA army in South America..
Kone

Kone  Here is one I would like to know about The Belarus farm tractors were built there then supposedly the factory burned so they never built back and now you can'not get parts for them now a Company out of California is buying all the Belarus Tractors they can find and ship back to Belarus so they can have parts to keep the Tractors going .It seems if they are in need of parts that bad there would be an interprising company or an individual that would start up a Company to make these parts .I personally sold 2 Belarus tractors to this Company I sold parts off these tractors here and then sold them to that Company for double what I paid for them .If a Country can'not produce food for the People somewhere things will start to fall apart.Steve


-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [EVGRAY] <[email protected]>
To: EVGRAY <[email protected]>
Sent: Wed, Dec 12, 2018 1:34 am
Subject: Re: [EVGRAY] Wild fires?

Hi Mick
The top down socialist country of Belarus is pretty nice place to live and work. They don't invade other countries have near zero crime or corruption good economy very healthy people free college hospitals lots of consumer goods and cars cheap gas etc...really nice nobody owns or packs guns and nobody wants to since nobody needs them or cares about it one bit if they have a gun or not.
Of course maybe only 5% of USA population knows about country of Belarus, where it is or any history of it since being a successful socialist country is not anything to be talked about on US media or studied in schools.
Yugoslavia also was a very successful top-down socialist country but was intentionally broken apart looted then squashed into smalle warring factions to mske sure it would never be as it was again.
In south and central  america dont expect any country to be top down socialist country of great success as very quickly CKA will be there to fuck amy all things up.t
Howv you judge "succss"  in case of cuba for an example is that peolple are heslthy snd happy and their government not invading nearby countries like Nazis and they freed themselves from having to depend on USA mafia/cia corruption and free now from CIA hit squads and invasion plans too...cant say the same about Columbia now they have become no 1 proxy USA army in South America..
Kone


------------------------------------
Posted by: [email protected]
------------------------------------


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Yahoo Groups Links

Study NATURE.   Simple fact is that the volcanoes around the planet 
place more green house gases into stratosphere than has mankind since we 
have been on earth.  Simple fact. Read just one example. 
https://pubs.usgs.gov/fs/1997/fs113-97/

  Now consider a much worse green house gas (25X worse than CO2) , 
Methane, which is released from the frozen methane hydrate off the 
Continental shelf and the Arctic tundra.  See 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methane_clathrate

And the idiots want to legislate COW FARTS.    YES, Mars has a CO2 
atmosphere due to all the SUVs running around up there.

On 12/11/2018 7:42 PM, Mick [email protected] [EVGRAY] wrote:
>
> Ole,
>
> Go check the math the man made CO2 causing a problem is a farce.
>
> CO2 which only emits at three hi Q nodes 10 point something microns 5 
> and one more is being calculated as a full bandwidth black body 
> radiator, secondly there is no distinction between night and daytime 
> in the calcs.
> Infra red is 1mm to 700 nanometers far wider than the 3 infra red 
> nodes of excited CO2.  It takes a good amount of energy to excite co2 
> to release any energy.  Pretty much all the heat re-radiated by Co2 
> will take place within 10 meters of the ground. About the height of 
> most trees.
>
>   Any child knows a cloud passing overhead cools, only at night can 
> water vapor the largest greenhouse gas trap and reflect energy. CO2 
> weighs more than nitrogen, it stays where plants like to turn it back 
> to oxygen.  In fact there is a lake in Africa that is volcanic and 
> burps CO2. When this happens it travels into the valleys and 
> suffocates all the local villages humans and animals, because it is 
> too heavy to rise and displaces the oxygen and nitrogen.
> The ice core samples were flipped the wrong way initially it was 
> reported that CO2 increase then temp increase. Actually C02 increase 
> was lagging the global heating by 600 or so years in the ice samples, 
> did any revisions take place in the science, not at all, none I could 
> find anyways.
>
> Man made Co2 levels may be 3 percent of total, fluctuations from fires 
> and volcanoes can often vary 20 percent from the normal natural levels 
> that are a hell of a lot higher than the 3 percent of human use.
>
> When one is a professor one only is awarded grants based on what the 
> think tanks dictate, this is why no alternative energy as we are 
> familiar with here is ever funded.  Yes I think all of us at this site 
> want petroleum energy to go the way of the dinosaurs, but CO2 isn't 
> the problem.   Carbon monoxide, sulfur dioxide, and many others are 
> actually a poison not a symbiotic biological as is Co2
>
> Now for the reality, when all the outlook is bad and fearful the sky 
> is falling, nothing like Hey we can now grow crops at further northern 
> latitudes!, or we are using less energy heating our homes.  No instead 
> it's all gloom and doom and fear based and the seas are rising etc 
> etc. When one sees a binary conscientious one should expect to be bent 
> over without lube.
>
> So Al Gore and James blood create a futures exchange to trade carbon 
> credit so one need only pay them to pollute more, hey problem solved 
> just sign on the dotted line. Most of the industry has been moved to 
> China and India, they are exempted from the carbon emission 
> limitations. Sound like a scam yet.
> We are about to hit a bifurcation point when the weather goes the 
> other way and not slowly, quickly like turning a thermostat.  All the 
> global warming distopian fear will be replaced by wishing it will heat 
> up instead.  Sapiens are really an arrogant lot, pretending they can 
> determine a problem of this magnitude with a temporal limited data set 
> built on a pathetic excuse for the scientific process in which 
> empirical thought has been completely disregarded because the top of 
> the pyramid has a plan for us all. Have a view at odds to 
> conscientious and one is labeled a heretic or a denier.  Sounds like 
> the Spanish inquisition.  Throw another Bruno on the fire, we need 
> some heat...
>
> Now lets talk about real problems, bunker oil running the super cargo 
> ships.  About 18 of these ships produce enough pollution in our oceans 
> as all the cars combined on the planet, there are hundreds of these, 
> maybe thousands shitting up the ocean with fuels so thick one can walk 
> on it until it is preheated to burn in the engines.  Fracking causing 
> the poisoning of our water tables across the planet but the EPA will 
> not lift a hand because the fracking chemicals are a secret protected 
> intellectual property so they allegedly can't know if they are 
> damaging. The contrails from the new turbine bypass engines which burn 
> much cooler hence stay suspended much longer are changing the planets 
> temperature bigtime.  It was measured when during 911 no planes were 
> flying.
>
> I like CO2 and believe it to be a cooling gas based on my work with 
> flowing gas CO2 lasers.  It makes plants grow and replaces out gassed 
> and burned oxygen from our atmosphere so we can live, no CO2 no 
> oxygen.  None of the claims from Gores silly movie have happened yet 
> as the sea was supposed to rise many feet by now. A few MM over the 
> last hundred years it has actually been measured to rise. The polar 
> bears are all drowned, even though they can swim hundreds of miles in 
> a go.
>
> I am glad your country produces clean energy, this is something we 
> should all aspire to but I will pray to keep my CO2 and revel in 
> natures power as each season of change the CO2 is released and then 
> re-absorbed and transmuted into breathable oxygen.
>
>
> On 12/11/2018 7:48 AM, [email protected] [EVGRAY] wrote:
>>
>> Hi Mick,
>>
>> "Free markets rather than socially overseen bullshit ones like UN 
>> fucking carbon credits where CO2 is now some pollutant but paying 
>> Gore will fix the problem."
>> Our government has come up with a climate plan that experts as well 
>> as industry says isn't ambitious enough to solve the problem. The 
>> glaciers of Greenland are melting at increasing rates. The permafrost 
>> of Siberia is melting too causing huge releases of methane gas which 
>> is a much worse greenhouse gas than CO2. The CO2 level is at an 
>> extreme height. The melting of the ice of Greenland will cause big 
>> trouble for many highly populated areas along coastlines. This may 
>> cause millions of refugees from big cities when becoming 
>> uninhabitable. Therefore it is much cheaper to do something about the 
>> problem now than waiting a decade to solve it. This will make lots of 
>> jobs in creating solutions instead of having to evacuate big cities 
>> and coastlines. My small country is great in the world of producing 
>> wind turbines and energy efficient technology. We really need such 
>> non fossil energy alternatives if we want to still live above sea 
>> level. Evacuating a country and its high infrastructure will be quite 
>> expensive. Besides where should all the people go when lots of area 
>> will be affected in other countries too? To make the wind power 
>> industry was expensive for the tax payers but now it is a big export 
>> article making the investment pay back as well as having free energy 
>> and cleaner air.
>>
>> The idea with the CO2 tax is to force people away from increasing the 
>> already huge fossil energy problem as well as paying for solutions. 
>> Investing the money in cleaner technology in the most polluting 
>> countries gives the best climate payback. Of course taxes aren't good 
>> in corrupt places. Thus first get rid of corruption which requires 
>> open systems.
>>
>> Countries like India China Russia and USA have great potential to 
>> reduce CO2 emissions.
>>
>> Regards
>> Ole
>>
>>
>>
>> ---In [email protected], <mkjekyll@...> wrote :
>>
>> Kone,
>>
>> I agree with your assessment and don't believe anyone should own 
>> resources outside their own country, perhaps a limited lease in 
>> exchange for building the infrastructure. There is greed and lack of 
>> ethics in all systems socialist or capitalist.
>>
>> Crony capitalism is evil.  War economies are evil, unchecked profit 
>> without ethics is evil. Lack of competition due to monopoly is evil. 
>> A system where one is able to live free and build competitive 
>> business in an ethical way is the ultimate for human ascendance. 
>> Unfortunately the US has been taken over by greedy people without 
>> ethics.  The government in Venezuela is fucked, this is why we have 
>> so many people migrating to Colombia starving and looking for work.  
>> I speak to these people every day, no bullshit.  It is not the US 
>> fault what happened it is the fault of greedy pig socialist same as 
>> greedy pig capitalist.
>>
>> Venezuela was a paradise and then the dictator forced out all the oil 
>> company engineers and other Venezuelan business professionals who 
>> knew what they were doing in order to give high paying jobs to 
>> military politicos who did not know shit but could protect his ass.  
>> All the profitable businesses were socialized in these ways. From 
>> what the Venezuelan doctor told me the roots of all of the downfall 
>> was promulgated the most by Cuban social engineering much more so 
>> than US spook shit, though that was dirty pool no doubt.  Poor people 
>> who do not fight to better themselves or are limited for other 
>> reasons will always vote for the most free shit but someone has to 
>> pay for it, sooner or later all the good businesses leave and their 
>> are no jobs. Free markets rather than socially overseen bullshit ones 
>> like UN fucking carbon credits where CO2 is now some pollutant but 
>> paying Gore will fix the problem.  Total socialist top down control 
>> based business model.  The places I go where one can live well and 
>> has the best access to goods and services are free market vertically 
>> integrated, all the socialist top down controlled have much less 
>> options to a person willing to perform learn and grow. Unfortunately 
>> some people elicit a failure to thrive, in nature same thing happens 
>> with animals, existence takes fucking hard work.
>>
>> Doesn't matter the system human frailty is the sad part. Ideally we 
>> should have no government and be self governing but sapiens are not 
>> grounded and ethical enough yet and likely never will be as long as 
>> they are taught UNESCO all suffering is due to someone else and they 
>> are simply victims of circumstance. The truth about Venezuela is 
>> assholes took over and destroyed a healthy economy.  There were CIA 
>> shenanigans for sure but this is not the reason for the place sucking 
>> now.  Also Ecuador is changing to this shitty system where the 
>> socialist government thinks they can fix everything by taxing 
>> business's.  No one we spoke with who owned a pizza place or a market 
>> etc were using bank accounts anymore because their money kept being 
>> appropriated for public works with higher taxes every few months.  It 
>> is in a sad state now full of crime and hateful victim mentality.  
>> Barely any selection at markets many shelves are not stocked.  
>> Businesses are being forced offshore or closing so there is the truth 
>> witnessed firsthand.  Being that I live in South America I have the 
>> opportunity to assess these issues first hand.
>>
>> On 12/10/2018 4:15 PM, konehead@... <mailto:konehead@...> [EVGRAY] wrote:
>>
>>>     Pure bullshit propaganda "socialist" government being cause of
>>>     big problems in venezuala. The fucking capitalist war monger
>>>     pigs in wadhington dc are the problem, blockading, sanctioning.
>>>     Starvng, sending in.metcenarie ( paid terrorists) from Columbia
>>>     and whoever wants to make a CIA buck killing innocent plus
>>>     Supposed humanitarian NGOs paying protestrs to start riots and
>>>     all the other shit capitalist profit first evil pigs from hell
>>>     will do.
>>>     Its all standard procedure for CIA and State department anytime
>>>     a "socialist" government .voted into office tells US capitalist
>>>     orporations to get the fuck out of their country and will never
>>>     allow US military base on their soil.
>>>     Imagine the gal l to kick out US corporations who say they "own"
>>>     land and industry in a country and give the land and industry to
>>>     the citizens of the country!! Fuck that is reason to invade kill
>>>     thousands of socialist peasants who would be better off dead
>>>     than communist sympathizers eh...
>>>
>

MickThat top down central planning by people who have never had experience at organizing anything, let alone a country, is a real problem for all governments.These bewildered people must depend on an infrastructure of people who know their jobs, but for much of them, have never made the hard decisions, and had to suffer consequences of a dumb idea, pushed to its limit.Throwing the baby out with the bath water is not wise, as there are actually people in government, all their lives, who give it their all, to well being of their fellow citizens.They are the little gears, and cogs, that make a country possible  by doing an honest sensible job, in an area where they understand the complete picture. Bless them, the garbage gets collected, and damn it, so do taxes, and boring shit, that most of us breeze away past, until a family health crisis, or a child with special needs, is a difficulty.Countries are complicated machines, and you don't want to drive them off a cliff, just because the carburator needs a little tweak.To manage such a sprawling, twisting beast, is no job for a dummy amateur, let alone a very flawed specimen. This is where political parties fail, in the manner that possible leader candidates get chosen, It is just become a hard scrabble fist fight in the dirt, between various bullies, surrounded by a screaming mob, not unlike who is going to be the main stud of the herd.( Some even carry on with that stud image, to the applause of the mob)The earth's population has travelled, an criss crossed, in a mingled mass of humanity, and customs, but we still have tiny factions of family tribalism, wanting to enslave, and dominate all the rest, without regard to the new reality of cosmopolitan humans.Cheers Warren
Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
 
  On Tue, 11 Dec 2018 at 11:53 PM, Mick [email protected] [EVGRAY]<[email protected]> wrote:       
 

Warren, 
 
 
All intl gov protected companies play heartless hardball, not just American, lets get real.
 
 
Yes they are a kind and lovely people and in the middle of a bad scene. I love hanging with them. All of that meddling is old history.  Their gov made business agreements with the US(for better or worse) and then elected a guy who broke all the agreements, yes there was a coup attempt but afterwards the oil wealth was redistributed.  For awhile there weresome good public works and improvement in the fucked up disparity , even during the US boycotts, but then oil prices plummeted and they had dipshits in way over their heads who could not produce or run a business only turn to pillage and theft.  Has any socialist top down mechanism in history not succumb to entropy similar or worse, hitler, stalin mao?   This is all old history, the American companies run roughshod for sure but the V government stealing private property from citizens not involved in oil "for the good of the masses."  Why socialism/communism appeals to so many when it's a top down control model that is prima fascia anti-freedom.  Not just the antifreedom of roughshod crony corporate greed but designed that way from the start.  Who would want to be overseen by a Politburo not sure I understand this love affair with central control, other than it was hammered into the hippy generation from Tavistock institute to hate America and capitalism.  Ever since daddy bush let unesco design our school curriculum, public school damages peoples opinion of their own country.  WTF  We have had our scallywags and shitheads and also our geniuses and amazing contributions to science and the rest of the world.  Tesla was a proud American. To throw the baby out with the bathwater, very sad and binary thinking.  I am not happy the USA supports war fare and killing and crony capitalism like protectionism of oil cartels but I as an American did not vote for that shit and most Americans don't want it either.
 
 On 12/11/2018 9:21 AM, Warren Keillor [email protected] [EVGRAY] wrote:
  
      
Doug
 From living in Venezuela, during the coup, and ten years later, during the general strike, I think your information you have, is quite on the mark. They are a lovely, educated people, in very hard times, just trying to make their own decisions, amid some tough challenges. American companies play hard ball, without compassion, or empathy, if it might cost them money.
 When operating in a jurisdiction where they are not held strictly to account, because they have paid off certain officials, out of the prying eyes of news media, they run ammuck flaunting laws, and responsibilities. Some companies are bad in the US, but way worse, where they run without leashes. As a citizen, one sees injustice, and like people all over the World, they just want a fair playing field, and uniform rules agreed on by everybody, maintained by fair and impartial people. Being able to pick and choose people likely having the integrity, and skill, to do jobs for society, as a whole, is one of the elements of democracy. Fraud, misrepresentaion, messing with the books, lying, and interfering with fair elections, to any degree, is a deal breaker, both in business, and in politics, as it is in life. Any group of people, need to work these things out, whether a family, or a country. Stirring the pot, getting, brother against brother, so you can take advantage of both, is pretty evil behavior, and companies, only measuring the bottom line of the profit sheet, are often guilty. Executives only get that fat bonus, in their contracts, if the numbers rise, no questions asked.  Look around you, and see if that is working? Cheers Warren
 Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
 
  On Tue, 11 Dec 2018 at 4:48 AM, [email protected] [EVGRAY] <[email protected]> wrote:          
Hi Mick
 I disagree on Venezuela issue. Being largest oil producer in area they could of eaSsy had economy and quality of life similar to what happened with Norway but no, the USA blocked oil sales and destroyed their economy through every nefarious means possible, just because they would not let US oil companies in there to rape the country.
 Columbia is building up military along border in CIA plot to invade Venezuela which could happen any day.. Columbia now USA proxy army in region as CIA controls cocaine economy now 100% and so controls  country and army. Those coming acrossbirder "hope" o be on winning side after invasion takes place. Look for invasion similar to Panama 3000 civilians killed probably 10,000 they don't care don't keep track like in Iraq.
 Right now US Navy is more or less blockading oil tankers to trade freely with excuse they do not sell to countries USA approves of.
 Kone
 
 ...
 
       
    
  #yiv6205034813 #yiv6205034813 -- #yiv6205034813ygrp-mkp {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:10px 0;padding:0 10px;}#yiv6205034813 #yiv6205034813ygrp-mkp hr {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;}#yiv6205034813 #yiv6205034813ygrp-mkp #yiv6205034813hd {color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:700;line-height:122%;margin:10px 0;}#yiv6205034813 #yiv6205034813ygrp-mkp #yiv6205034813ads {margin-bottom:10px;}#yiv6205034813 #yiv6205034813ygrp-mkp .yiv6205034813ad {padding:0 0;}#yiv6205034813 #yiv6205034813ygrp-mkp .yiv6205034813ad p {margin:0;}#yiv6205034813 #yiv6205034813ygrp-mkp .yiv6205034813ad a {color:#0000ff;text-decoration:none;}#yiv6205034813 #yiv6205034813ygrp-sponsor #yiv6205034813ygrp-lc {font-family:Arial;}#yiv6205034813 #yiv6205034813ygrp-sponsor #yiv6205034813ygrp-lc #yiv6205034813hd {margin:10px 0px;font-weight:700;font-size:78%;line-height:122%;}#yiv6205034813 #yiv6205034813ygrp-sponsor #yiv6205034813ygrp-lc .yiv6205034813ad {margin-bottom:10px;padding:0 0;}#yiv6205034813 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Hey SteveDo you know about "just in time" auto parts manufacture?They make parts overnight, that you order.You have to have the Cad smarts
to draft up the parts, but any tractor part can be made just as car parts are. The Chinese are whizzes at it, but so are firms in Canada.I have had a little outfit in Toronto, mill up complex thingies from solid stainless, overnight, the machine just chewing away, all night long on slow, economical, tooling speed, on a weekend. The parts prices work out about the same as manufacturers.It is good for antique cars too.Piston rings, connecting rods....Hell, I know a guy who makes 1/4  scale big old rotary aircraft engines that work, because he can.There is a whole world of possibilities out there. Check it out.Cheers Warren 
Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
 
  On Wed, 12 Dec 2018 at 2:43 AM, [email protected] [EVGRAY]<[email protected]> wrote:       
Kone 
 Here is one I would like to know about The Belarus farm tractors were built there then supposedly the factory burned so they never built back and now you can'not get parts for them now a Company out of California is buying all the Belarus Tractors they can find and ship back to Belarus so they can have parts to keep the Tractors going .It seems if they are in need of parts that bad there would be an interprising company or an individual that would start up a Company to make these parts .I personally sold 2 Belarus tractors to this Company I sold parts off these tractors here and then sold them to that Company for double what I paid for them .If a Country can'not produce food for the People somewhere things will start to fall apart.Steve


-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [EVGRAY] <[email protected]>
To: EVGRAY <[email protected]>
Sent: Wed, Dec 12, 2018 1:34 am
Subject: Re: [EVGRAY] Wild fires?

Hi Mick
The top down socialist country of Belarus is pretty nice place to live and work. They don't invade other countries have near zero crime or corruption good economy very healthy people free college hospitals lots of consumer goods and cars cheap gas etc...really nice nobody owns or packs guns and nobody wants to since nobody needs them or cares about it one bit if they have a gun or not.
Of course maybe only 5% of USA population knows about country of Belarus, where it is or any history of it since being a successful socialist country is not anything to be talked about on US media or studied in schools.
Yugoslavia also was a very successful top-down socialist country but was intentionally broken apart looted then squashed into smalle warring factions to mske sure it would never be as it was again.
In south and central  america dont expect any country to be top down socialist country of great success as very quickly CKA will be there to fuck amy all things up.t
Howv you judge "succss"  in case of cuba for an example is that peolple are heslthy snd happy and their government not invading nearby countries like Nazis and they freed themselves from having to depend on USA mafia/cia corruption and free now from CIA hit squads and invasion plans too...cant say the same about Columbia now they have become no 1 proxy USA army in South America..
Kone


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Hi Steve
That factory burned down in 1946 so you must be dealing  with very old tractors.
Right now the tractor factory herei n Minsk makes 62 different models they are very proud of Belarus tractors they are supposed to be best built in world and the factory here employs 16,000 people.
No GMO foods allowed in Belarus, same with Russia....all shelves are stocked full of food. They have best bread in world here they are very proud of their agriculture and will never let mosamto,'smelly  ass int country. , like in Ukraine immediately after the nazi militias came to.power there a few years ago at behest of NATO and Obama government and the ethnic cleansing of Russian speaking people in eastr began, 3000 civilians killed one million refugees fled to russis, something never reported in US media of course.
When a country cannot house it's millions of homeless people without any hope.  or to provide simple medical care  for all,  this will be the time the country falls apart!
Kone

Kone,

Yes the invading other countries is super uncool.  Actually Belarus is
less socialist than the USA as they only redistribute about 26 percent
of private property. 
https://www.belarus.by/en/invest/investment-climate/taxation

The USA is socialist ever since the New Deal was pushed through by the
FED Reserve strategized depression.  It's pretty much all over as far as
free markets, unfortunately.

However in Belarus they are more likely to take private real estate
there
https://www.globalpropertyguide.com/Europe/Belarus/property-rights-index

Sounds like a civilized place, why would you want to come back to the
USA then?

Where are you getting the data about the Colombian proxy army?  I know
one of the crazies down here was attempting to get Trump to invade V,
but don't think the guy was taken that seriously.  Give me some data on
this!


On 12/12/2018 1:28 AM, [email protected] [EVGRAY] wrote:
>  
>
> Hi Mick
> The top down socialist country of Belarus is pretty nice place to live
> and work. They don't invade other countries have near zero crime or
> corruption good economy very healthy people free college hospitals
> lots of consumer goods and cars cheap gas etc...really nice nobody
> owns or packs guns and nobody wants to since nobody needs them or
> cares about it one bit if they have a gun or not.
> Of course maybe only 5% of USA population knows about country of
> Belarus, where it is or any history of it since being a successful
> socialist country is not anything to be talked about on US media or
> studied in schools.
> Yugoslavia also was a very successful top-down socialist country but
> was intentionally broken apart looted then squashed into smalle
> warring factions to mske sure it would never be as it was again.
> In south and central america dont expect any country to be top down
> socialist country of great success as very quickly CKA will be there
> to fuck amy all things up.t
> Howv you judge "succss" in case of cuba for an example is that peolple
> are heslthy snd happy and their government not invading nearby
> countries like Nazis and they freed themselves from having to depend
> on USA mafia/cia corruption and free now from CIA hit squads and
> invasion plans too...cant say the same about Columbia now they have
> become no 1 proxy USA army in South America..
> Kone
>
>

James, Yes this could push a new renaissance as soon as they can print
metal quality parts it will be an amazing cottage industry.  If they could
move towards bartering and using cryptos to bypass the tax war machine,
even better.

With cryptos central banks are outmoded and a whole new civilization can
flourish based on true free market exchange.  They know this, pandoras box
and all.  With crypto self executing contracts we can even het rid of
politicians.  By the people for the people could be more than rhetoric.

On Dec 9, 2018 9:22 PM, "James Glinski [email protected] [EVGRAY]" <
[email protected]> wrote:

>
>
> Change is the constant and adapting to is what we do best .I'm hoping the
> 3d printing DIY science technology gets people going as inventers and
> business people selling there Cad  programs .you could go shopping like for
> Christmas stuff toys ect and download the program from them and make them
> at home .intellectual properly as a commodity . a new form of capitalism
> .the self replicating printer would clone it's self and spread like a wild
> fire .it's in the works but not as good as it needs to be but almost there
> small improvements needed.that last one by useing a old CD laser burner to
> shift back and forth on the new material gives almost a commercial look to
> the work .and doesn't make gears real good ..yet work in progress.
>
> On Sunday, December 9, 2018, Mick [email protected] [EVGRAY] <
> [email protected]> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Hector,
>>
>> And real cooperatives are voluntary and do not force people into it.  I
>> think socialism always forces one to play and cooperatives are voluntary.
>> I like capitalism as long as it's not crony capitalism as it allows for
>> humans to progress faster as individuals, cooperatives are not at odds with
>> capitalism.  As parts of a whole of any kind if it is forced then it sucks
>> donkey dick.  This is what the united states after Washington forced
>> everyone to play their game.  A free inhabitant upon the land is the
>> ultimate position to have, not part of some forced and taxed reality.
>> On 12/9/2018 2:26 PM, [email protected] [EVGRAY] wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Real socialism creates cooperatives were the mark is to increase
>> accumulative wealth for its members , the socialism you see is a farce ,
>> created as a false enemy against capitalism that is also a farce as they
>> are more communist in the sense they end fucking everyone equally including
>> themselves ///
>>
>> don't believe me ? just stop paying your taxes , you will find you are
>> owned ass deep by them !
>>
>> USA 21trillion in debt , a national tax of 36% hangs in the air to fuck
>> you deep !
>>
>> pray for a thermonuclear war so it ends fast ////
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ---In [email protected], <jglinski01@...> <jglinski01@...> wrote :
>>
>> Socialist seem to think that taking what doesn't belong to them and
>> giving to the poor .solves the underlining problem of lack .instead of
>> going for super abundance .is a minimumlist way of thinking .give things
>> out till there's nothing left doesn't meet the demand of humanity .thats
>> pie in the sky thinking ..and ends in violence ..like po pot said that's he
>> would kill a billion people to achieve utopia .Hitler was doing the same
>> thing .it's usually a small few who promote it then but the wealth in a
>> bank out side of there country .there answer is killing tomdown size the
>> problem ..none of that solves any problem except there lack .we tried that
>> when America was first founded and it showed it's true colors right there
>> .they formed a collective to plant corn .a few did all the work and many
>> just dreamed about how good the idea was .well they almost starved to death
>> ..next year they gave each family a portion and made them in charge of
>> there own future .it worked no sitting on there ass talking about it they
>> had to go do it .they had more than they needed and could trade with
>> Indians ..no need to take down a whole nation to find out it's a bad idea
>> ..and every time it fails they think only if we had the right person
>> running it ..well there is no right person for a bad idea that will make it
>> a good idea .reaching for the wealth of the universe will solve the problem
>> .not sitting around talking shit .
>>
>> On Sunday, December 9, 2018, iron1of1@... [EVGRAY] <
>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Good post George, Warren too often wears rose coloured glasses.
>>
>> Maybe he didn't see that Canada's Federal Immigration Minister, Ahmed
>> Hussen, (hello?) is going to endorse the UN Global Compact... what could go
>> wrong?
>>
>> Ron
>>
>> https://www.cbc.ca/news/ politics/global-compact-un- hussen-1.4935492
>> <https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/global-compact-un-hussen-1.4935492>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ---In [email protected], <canowindracd@...> <canowindracd@...>
>> wrote :
>>
>> Warren,
>>
>> Your posts indicate that you have not read Agenda 21, Agenda 30, the Lima
>> Declaration and the Barcelona declaration.
>>
>> If you haven't read these then you really are in the dark about world
>> affairs and what danger is fast approaching you on the horizon.
>>
>> The sheeple are asleep and don't know what is coming, and I hope you are
>> not one of them.
>>
>> George
>>
>>
>> 
>

Viktor Schauberger studied nature and was convinced that explosive energy sources violated nature. Schaubergers home power plant and levitating technology used implosion. He warned that nature would be destroyed the air would be unbreathable and the water dead if continuing with using more and more explosion energy. The explosive principle decomposes matter while the implosion principle builds up matter. I don't know if he has been proven wrong or right but as a human I would rather breath oxygen than CO2. If I was a tree I would probably prefer CO2 instead. The problem is that the balance of the atmosphere is changing faster than the evolution of humans. Thus will we be able to live at this planet that is changing faster than ever? The weaker species are already dispreading at alarming rates. Will we be the next one?

Schauberger and many others have shown alternatives to explosion energy. If nobody can guarantee that it isn't necessary for coming generations to be able to live here we really shouldn't work against nature. Nature probably will win no mater what we do. The problem is is it with us or without us in the equation. It is said that thousands die because of breathing polluted air in the cities. Some cities have achieved much cleaner air making it easier to have long lives in them. Because lots of people make their living using destructive technology doesn't mean they will survive in the long run when destroying the planet they live on.

Even the more and more destructive weather is said to be natures way of trying to re-balance itself. The more we disturb nature the more nature tries to balance itself even if this means destroying humankind.

Instead of eating cows just eat less cow which makes a difference in the number of cows. As the Chinese are getting richer they also eat more meat. So should they increase their level to the level of the most cow eating nations or should the most cow eating nations decline in the amount of cows to solve the problem? I don't see increasing the level helps solve the problem even for the people that wants to survive.

Regards
Ole
 

---In [email protected], <nwootan@...> wrote :

 Study NATURE.   Simple fact is that the volcanoes around the planet place more green house gases into stratosphere than has mankind since we have been on earth.  Simple fact. Read just one example. https://pubs.usgs.gov/fs/1997/fs113-97/ https://pubs.usgs.gov/fs/1997/fs113-97/
  Now consider a much worse green house gas (25X worse than CO2) , Methane, which is released from the frozen methane hydrate off the Continental shelf and the Arctic tundra.  See   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methane_clathrate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methane_clathrate
 And the idiots want to legislate COW FARTS.    YES, Mars has a CO2 atmosphere due to all the SUVs running around up there.

 On 12/11/2018 7:42 PM, Mick mkjekyll@... mailto:mkjekyll@... [EVGRAY] wrote:

   
 Ole,
 Go check the math the man made CO2 causing a problem is a farce.
 CO2 which only emits at three hi Q nodes 10 point something microns 5 and one more is being calculated as a full bandwidth black body radiator, secondly there is no distinction between night and daytime in the calcs.
 Infra red is 1mm to 700 nanometers far wider than the 3 infra red nodes of excited CO2.  It takes a good amount of energy to excite co2 to release any energy.  Pretty much all the heat re-radiated by Co2 will take place within 10 meters of the ground. About the height of most trees.

   Any child knows a cloud passing overhead cools, only at night can water vapor the largest greenhouse gas trap and reflect energy. CO2 weighs more than nitrogen, it stays where plants like to turn it back to oxygen.  In fact there is a lake in Africa that is volcanic and burps CO2.  When this happens it travels into the valleys and suffocates all the local villages humans and animals, because it is too heavy to rise and displaces the oxygen and nitrogen.   
 The ice core samples were flipped the wrong way initially it was reported that CO2 increase then temp increase.  Actually C02 increase was lagging the global heating by 600 or so years in the ice samples, did any revisions take place in the science, not at all, none I could find anyways.

 Man made Co2 levels may be 3 percent of total, fluctuations from fires and volcanoes can often vary 20 percent from the normal natural levels that are a hell of a lot higher than the 3 percent of human use.
 When one is a professor one only is awarded grants based on what the think tanks dictate, this is why no alternative energy as we are familiar with here is ever funded.  Yes I think all of us at this site want petroleum energy to go the way of the dinosaurs, but CO2 isn't the problem.   Carbon monoxide, sulfur dioxide, and many others are actually a poison not a symbiotic biological as is Co2

 Now for the reality, when all the outlook is bad and fearful the sky is falling, nothing like Hey we can now grow crops at further northern latitudes!, or we are using less energy heating our homes.  No instead it's all gloom and doom and fear based and the seas are rising etc etc.  When one sees a binary conscientious one should expect to be bent over without lube.

 So Al Gore and James blood create a futures exchange to trade carbon credit so one need only pay them to pollute more, hey problem solved just sign on the dotted line.  Most of the industry has been moved to China and India, they are exempted from the carbon emission limitations.  Sound like a scam yet.  
 We are about to hit a bifurcation point when the weather goes the other way and not slowly, quickly like turning a thermostat.  All the global warming distopian fear will be replaced by wishing it will heat up instead.  Sapiens are really an arrogant lot, pretending they can determine a problem of this magnitude with a temporal limited data set built on a pathetic excuse for the scientific process in which empirical thought has been completely disregarded because the top of the pyramid has a plan for us all.  Have a view at odds to conscientious and one is labeled a heretic or a denier.  Sounds like the Spanish inquisition.  Throw another Bruno on the fire, we need some heat...

 Now lets talk about real problems, bunker oil running the super cargo ships.  About 18 of these ships produce enough pollution in our oceans as all the cars combined on the planet, there are hundreds of these, maybe thousands shitting up the ocean with fuels so thick one can walk on it until it is preheated to burn in the engines.  Fracking causing the poisoning of our water tables across the planet but the EPA will not lift a hand because the fracking chemicals are a secret protected intellectual property so they allegedly can't know if they are damaging. The contrails from the new turbine bypass engines which burn much cooler hence stay suspended much longer are changing the planets temperature bigtime.  It was measured when during 911 no planes were flying.
 I like CO2 and believe it to be a cooling gas based on my work with flowing gas CO2 lasers.  It makes plants grow and replaces out gassed and burned oxygen from our atmosphere so we can live, no CO2 no oxygen.  None of the claims from Gores silly movie have happened yet as the sea was supposed to rise many feet by now. A few MM over the last hundred years it has actually been measured to rise. The polar bears are all drowned, even though they can swim hundreds of miles in a go.
 I am glad your country produces clean energy, this is something we should all aspire to but I will pray to keep my CO2 and revel in natures power as each season of change the CO2 is released and then re-absorbed and transmuted into breathable oxygen.

 

 On 12/11/2018 7:48 AM, onielsen@... mailto:onielsen@... [EVGRAY] wrote:

   Hi Mick,
 
 "Free markets rather than socially overseen bullshit ones like UN fucking carbon credits where CO2 is now some pollutant but paying Gore will fix the problem."
 Our government has come up with a climate plan that experts as well as industry says isn't ambitious enough to solve the problem. The glaciers of Greenland are melting at increasing rates. The permafrost of Siberia is melting too causing huge releases of methane gas which is a much worse greenhouse gas than CO2. The CO2 level is at an extreme height. The melting of the ice of Greenland will cause big trouble for many highly populated areas along coastlines. This may cause millions of refugees from big cities when becoming uninhabitable. Therefore it is much cheaper to do something about the problem now than waiting a decade to solve it. This will make lots of jobs in creating solutions instead of having to evacuate big cities and coastlines. My small country is great in the world of producing wind turbines and energy efficient technology. We really need such non fossil energy alternatives if we want to still live above sea level. Evacuating a country and its high infrastructure will be quite expensive. Besides where should all the people go when lots of area will be affected in other countries too? To make the wind power industry was expensive for the tax payers but now it is a big export article making the investment pay back as well as having free energy and cleaner air.
 
 The idea with the CO2 tax is to force people away from increasing the already huge fossil energy problem as well as paying for solutions. Investing the money in cleaner technology in the most polluting countries gives the best climate payback. Of course taxes aren't good in corrupt places. Thus first get rid of corruption which requires open systems.
 
 Countries like India China Russia and USA have great potential to reduce CO2 emissions.
 
 Regards
 Ole

 
 
 ---In [email protected] mailto:[email protected], <mkjekyll@...> mailto:mkjekyll@... wrote :
 
 Kone,
 I agree with your assessment and don't believe anyone should own resources outside their own country, perhaps a limited lease in exchange for building the infrastructure.  There is greed and lack of ethics in all systems socialist or capitalist.

 Crony capitalism is evil.  War economies are evil, unchecked profit without ethics is evil. Lack of competition due to monopoly is evil. A system where one is able to live free and build competitive business in an ethical way is the ultimate for human ascendance.  Unfortunately the US has been taken over by greedy people without ethics.  The government in Venezuela is fucked, this is why we have so many people migrating to Colombia starving and looking for work.  I speak to these people every day, no bullshit.  It is not the US fault what happened it is the fault of greedy pig socialist same as greedy pig capitalist.
 Venezuela was a paradise and then the dictator forced out all the oil company engineers and other Venezuelan business professionals who knew what they were doing in order to give high paying jobs to military politicos who did not know shit but could protect his ass.  All the profitable businesses were socialized in these ways.  From what the Venezuelan doctor told me the roots of all of the downfall was promulgated the most by Cuban social engineering much more so than US spook shit, though that was dirty pool no doubt.  Poor people who do not fight to better themselves or are limited for other reasons will always vote for the most free shit but someone has to pay for it, sooner or later all the good businesses leave and their are no jobs. Free markets rather than socially overseen bullshit ones like UN fucking carbon credits where CO2 is now some pollutant but paying Gore will fix the problem.  Total socialist top down control based business model.  The places I go where one can live well and has the best access to goods and services are free market vertically integrated, all the socialist top down controlled have much less options to a person willing to perform learn and grow.  Unfortunately some people elicit a failure to thrive, in nature same thing happens with animals, existence takes fucking hard work.
 
 Doesn't matter the system human frailty is the sad part. Ideally we should have no government and be self governing but sapiens are not grounded and ethical enough yet and likely never will be as long as they are taught UNESCO all suffering is due to someone else and they are simply victims of circumstance.  The truth about Venezuela is assholes took over and destroyed a healthy economy.  There were CIA shenanigans for sure but this is not the reason for the place sucking now.  Also Ecuador is changing to this shitty system where the socialist government thinks they can fix everything by taxing business's.  No one we spoke with who owned a pizza place or a market etc were using bank accounts anymore because their money kept being appropriated for public works with higher taxes every few months.  It is in a sad state now full of crime and hateful victim mentality.  Barely any selection at markets many shelves are not stocked.  Businesses are being forced offshore or closing so there is the truth witnessed firsthand.  Being that I live in South America I have the opportunity to assess these issues first hand.

 On 12/10/2018 4:15 PM, konehead@... mailto:konehead@... [EVGRAY] wrote:

   Pure bullshit propaganda "socialist" government being cause of big problems in venezuala. The fucking capitalist war monger pigs in wadhington dc are the problem, blockading, sanctioning. Starvng, sending in.metcenarie ( paid terrorists) from Columbia and whoever wants to make a CIA buck killing innocent plus Supposed humanitarian NGOs paying protestrs to start riots and all the other shit capitalist profit first evil pigs from hell will do.
 Its all standard procedure for CIA and State department anytime a "socialist" government .voted into office tells US capitalist orporations to get the fuck out of their country and will never allow US military base on their soil.
 Imagine the gal l to kick out US corporations who say they "own" land and industry in a country and give the land and industry to the citizens of the country!! Fuck that is reason to invade kill thousands of socialist peasants who would be better off dead than communist sympathizers eh...

Good post Ole,
The cutting down of trees is one of the most disturbing things to nature.  Tree felling, ground clearing, broad acre grain crop farming, and over grazing of animals are the things that start deserts.
Trees bring rain and nature cycles the rain according to the trees and the moisture therein. Deserts do not bring rain.
In a forest the ground is protected from the sun by the foliage and the litter on the ground and when it rains the water is fully absorbed into the soil.
When the land is exposed to the sun and baked it cannot absorb water when it rains and so the road to deserts continues and gets worse with time. Ploughing the ground does great harm in exposing it to the sun.

The correct diet for humans is raw fruits, raw vegetables and water.  Humans are not designed to eat grains or grain products, which are acid forming in the body and cause the ONE disease with 400 symptoms.
Cooked food is a slow poison so we don't need to eat animals or other things which require cooking.
By planting billions of fruit trees the earth will be protected from the sun and the deserts can slowly be recovered.
For the first 1,656 years up to the flood of Noah people are raw food and lived for well over 900 years.
If you study Viktor Schaubeger's writings he was always trying to be in harmony with nature and he understood the cycles of forests and water.
There is no other creature on earth that first destroys its food by cooking; humans are the only creatures out of step with nature and also no other adult creature on earth drinks milk.
People have been led in all directions away from nature and what is good for us and they are addicted to the unnatural ways of life.
However Agenda 2030 with the UN in control of the earth for a little while is not far off, and that makes God's war of Armageddon a close reality now, so we can all learn how to live healthy lives in the not too distant future.
George

    On Thursday, 13 December 2018, 10:45:07 am AEDT, [email protected] [EVGRAY] <[email protected]> wrote:  
 
     
Viktor Schauberger studied nature and was convinced that explosive energy sources violated nature. Schaubergers home power plant and levitating technology used implosion. He warned that nature would be destroyed the air would be unbreathable and the water dead if continuing with using more and more explosion energy. The explosive principle decomposes matter while the implosion principle builds up matter. I don't know if he has been proven wrong or right but as a human I would rather breath oxygen than CO2. If I was a tree I would probably prefer CO2 instead. The problem is that the balance of the atmosphere is changing faster than the evolution of humans. Thus will we be able to live at this planet that is changing faster than ever? The weaker species are already dispreading at alarming rates. Will we be the next one?

Schauberger and many others have shown alternatives to explosion energy. If nobody can guarantee that it isn't necessary for coming generations to be able to live here we really shouldn't work against nature. Nature probably will win no mater what we do. The problem is is it with us or without us in the equation. It is said that thousands die because of breathing polluted air in the cities. Some cities have achieved much cleaner air making it easier to have long lives in them. Because lots of people make their living using destructive technology doesn't mean they will survive in the long run when destroying the planet they live on.

Even the more and more destructive weather is said to be natures way of trying to re-balance itself. The more we disturb nature the more nature tries to balance itself even if this means destroying humankind.

Instead of eating cows just eat less cow which makes a difference in the number of cows. As the Chinese are getting richer they also eat more meat. So should they increase their level to the level of the most cow eating nations or should the most cow eating nations decline in the amount of cows to solve the problem? I don't see increasing the level helps solve the problem even for the people that wants to survive.

Regards
Ole



---In [email protected], <nwootan@...> wrote :


Study NATURE.   Simple fact is that the volcanoes around theplanet place more green house gases into stratosphere than hasmankind since we have been on earth.  Simple fact. Read just oneexample. https://pubs.usgs.gov/fs/1997/fs113-97/

 Now consider a much worse green house gas (25X worse than CO2) ,Methane, which is released from the frozen methane hydrate off theContinental shelf and the Arctic tundra.  See  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methane_clathrate

And the idiots want to legislate COW FARTS.    YES, Mars has aCO2 atmosphere due to all the SUVs running around up there.

On 12/11/2018 7:42 PM, Mickmkjekyll@... [EVGRAY] wrote:


 


Ole,

Go check the math the man made CO2 causing a problem is afarce.

CO2 which only emits at three hi Q nodes 10 pointsomething microns 5 and one more is being calculated as afull bandwidth black body radiator, secondly there is nodistinction between night and daytime in the calcs.
Infra red is 1mm to 700 nanometers far wider than the 3infra red nodes of excited CO2.  It takes a good amount ofenergy to excite co2 to release any energy.  Pretty muchall the heat re-radiated by Co2 will take place within 10meters of the ground. About the height of most trees.


  Any child knows a cloud passing overhead cools, only atnight can water vapor the largest greenhouse gas trap andreflect energy. CO2 weighs more than nitrogen, it stayswhere plants like to turn it back to oxygen.  In factthere is a lake in Africa that is volcanic and burps CO2. When this happens it travels into the valleys andsuffocates all the local villages humans and animals,because it is too heavy to rise and displaces the oxygenand nitrogen.   
The ice core samples were flipped the wrong way initiallyit was reported that CO2 increase then temp increase. Actually C02 increase was lagging the global heating by600 or so years in the ice samples, did any revisions takeplace in the science, not at all, none I could findanyways.


Man made Co2 levels may be 3 percent of total,fluctuations from fires and volcanoes can often vary 20percent from the normal natural levels that are a hell ofa lot higher than the 3 percent of human use.

When one is a professor one only is awarded grants basedon what the think tanks dictate, this is why noalternative energy as we are familiar with here is everfunded.  Yes I think all of us at this site want petroleumenergy to go the way of the dinosaurs, but CO2 isn't theproblem.   Carbon monoxide, sulfur dioxide, and manyothers are actually a poison not a symbiotic biological asis Co2


Now for the reality, when all the outlook is bad andfearful the sky is falling, nothing like Hey we can nowgrow crops at further northern latitudes!, or we are usingless energy heating our homes.  No instead it's all gloomand doom and fear based and the seas are rising etc etc. When one sees a binary conscientious one should expect tobe bent over without lube.


So Al Gore and James blood create a futures exchange totrade carbon credit so one need only pay them to pollutemore, hey problem solved just sign on the dotted line. Most of the industry has been moved to China and India,they are exempted from the carbon emission limitations. Sound like a scam yet.  
We are about to hit a bifurcation point when the weathergoes the other way and not slowly, quickly like turning athermostat.  All the global warming distopian fear will bereplaced by wishing it will heat up instead.  Sapiens arereally an arrogant lot, pretending they can determine aproblem of this magnitude with a temporal limited data setbuilt on a pathetic excuse for the scientific process inwhich empirical thought has been completely disregardedbecause the top of the pyramid has a plan for us all. Have a view at odds to conscientious and one is labeled aheretic or a denier.  Sounds like the Spanishinquisition.  Throw another Bruno on the fire, we needsome heat...


Now lets talk about real problems, bunker oil running thesuper cargo ships.  About 18 of these ships produce enoughpollution in our oceans as all the cars combined on theplanet, there are hundreds of these, maybe thousandsshitting up the ocean with fuels so thick one can walk onit until it is preheated to burn in the engines.  Frackingcausing the poisoning of our water tables across theplanet but the EPA will not lift a hand because thefracking chemicals are a secret protected intellectualproperty so they allegedly can't know if they aredamaging. The contrails from the new turbine bypassengines which burn much cooler hence stay suspended muchlonger are changing the planets temperature bigtime.  Itwas measured when during 911 no planes were flying.

I like CO2 and believe it to be a cooling gas based on mywork with flowing gas CO2 lasers.  It makes plants growand replaces out gassed and burned oxygen from ouratmosphere so we can live, no CO2 no oxygen.  None of theclaims from Gores silly movie have happened yet as the seawas supposed to rise many feet by now. A few MM over thelast hundred years it has actually been measured to rise.The polar bears are all drowned, even though they can swimhundreds of miles in a go.

I am glad your country produces clean energy, this issomething we should all aspire to but I will pray to keepmy CO2 and revel in natures power as each season of changethe CO2 is released and then re-absorbed and transmutedinto breathable oxygen.




On 12/11/2018 7:48 AM, onielsen@...[EVGRAY] wrote:

  
Hi Mick,

"Free markets rather than sociallyoverseen bullshit ones like UN fucking carboncredits where CO2 is now some pollutant butpaying Gore will fix the problem."
Our government has come up with a climate planthat experts as well as industry says isn'tambitious enough to solve the problem. Theglaciers of Greenland are melting at increasingrates. The permafrost of Siberia is melting toocausing huge releases of methane gas which is amuch worse greenhouse gas than CO2. The CO2 levelis at an extreme height. The melting of the ice ofGreenland will cause big trouble for many highlypopulated areas along coastlines. This may causemillions of refugees from big cities when becominguninhabitable. Therefore it is much cheaper to dosomething about the problem now than waiting adecade to solve it. This will make lots of jobs increating solutions instead of having to evacuatebig cities and coastlines. My small country isgreat in the world of producing wind turbines andenergy efficient technology. We really need suchnon fossil energy alternatives if we want to stilllive above sea level. Evacuating a country and itshigh infrastructure will be quite expensive.Besides where should all the people go when lotsof area will be affected in other countries too?To make the wind power industry was expensive forthe tax payers but now it is a big export articlemaking the investment pay back as well as havingfree energy and cleaner air.

The idea with the CO2 tax is to force people awayfrom increasing the already huge fossil energyproblem as well as paying for solutions. Investingthe money in cleaner technology in the mostpolluting countries gives the best climatepayback. Of course taxes aren't good in corruptplaces. Thus first get rid of corruption whichrequires open systems.

Countries like India China Russia and USA havegreat potential to reduce CO2 emissions.

Regards
Ole



---In [email protected],<mkjekyll@...>wrote :


Kone,

I agree with your assessment and don'tbelieve anyone should own resources outsidetheir own country, perhaps a limited lease inexchange for building the infrastructure. There is greed and lack of ethics in allsystems socialist or capitalist.


Crony capitalism is evil.  War economies areevil, unchecked profit without ethics is evil.Lack of competition due to monopoly is evil. Asystem where one is able to live free andbuild competitive business in an ethical wayis the ultimate for human ascendance. Unfortunately the US has been taken over bygreedy people without ethics.  The governmentin Venezuela is fucked, this is why we have somany people migrating to Colombia starving andlooking for work.  I speak to these peopleevery day, no bullshit.  It is not the USfault what happened it is the fault of greedypig socialist same as greedy pig capitalist.

Venezuela was a paradise and then thedictator forced out all the oil companyengineers and other Venezuelan businessprofessionals who knew what they were doing inorder to give high paying jobs to militarypoliticos who did not know shit but couldprotect his ass.  All the profitablebusinesses were socialized in these ways. From what the Venezuelan doctor told me theroots of all of the downfall was promulgatedthe most by Cuban social engineering much moreso than US spook shit, though that was dirtypool no doubt.  Poor people who do not fightto better themselves or are limited for otherreasons will always vote for the most freeshit but someone has to pay for it, sooner orlater all the good businesses leave and theirare no jobs. Free markets rather than sociallyoverseen bullshit ones like UN fucking carboncredits where CO2 is now some pollutant butpaying Gore will fix the problem.  Totalsocialist top down control based businessmodel.  The places I go where one can livewell and has the best access to goods andservices are free market verticallyintegrated, all the socialist top downcontrolled have much less options to a personwilling to perform learn and grow. Unfortunately some people elicit a failure tothrive, in nature same thing happens withanimals, existence takes fucking hard work.

Doesn't matter the system human frailty is thesad part. Ideally we should have no governmentand be self governing but sapiens are notgrounded and ethical enough yet and likelynever will be as long as they are taughtUNESCO all suffering is due to someone elseand they are simply victims of circumstance. The truth about Venezuela is assholes tookover and destroyed a healthy economy.  Therewere CIA shenanigans for sure but this is notthe reason for the place sucking now.  AlsoEcuador is changing to this shitty systemwhere the socialist government thinks they canfix everything by taxing business's.  No onewe spoke with who owned a pizza place or amarket etc were using bank accounts anymorebecause their money kept being appropriatedfor public works with higher taxes every fewmonths.  It is in a sad state now full ofcrime and hateful victim mentality.  Barelyany selection at markets many shelves are notstocked.  Businesses are being forced offshoreor closing so there is the truth witnessedfirsthand.  Being that I live in South AmericaI have the opportunity to assess these issuesfirst hand.

On12/10/2018 4:15 PM, konehead@...[EVGRAY] wrote:


  
Pure bullshit propaganda "socialist"government being cause of big problemsin venezuala. The fucking capitalistwar monger pigs in wadhington dc arethe problem, blockading, sanctioning.Starvng, sending in.metcenarie ( paidterrorists) from Columbia and whoeverwants to make a CIA buck killinginnocent plus Supposed humanitarianNGOs paying protestrs to start riotsand all the other shit capitalistprofit first evil pigs from hell willdo.
Its all standard procedure for CIA andState department anytime a "socialist"government .voted into office tells UScapitalist orporations to get the fuckout of their country and will neverallow US military base on their soil.
Imagine the gal l to kick out UScorporations who say they "own" landand industry in a country and give theland and industry to the citizens ofthe country!! Fuck that is reason toinvade kill thousands of socialistpeasants who would be better off deadthan communist sympathizers eh...

George, You forgot one thing, the green vs gold reflection back from the
sun.  Where there are no trees the temperature rises with places that have
the grains that go gold and brown after early spring.  A thick forest does
need to be tended else it just becomes overgrown.and burns up.  Responsible
logging and replanting kept the firebreaks and roads we used to use to
fight fires in Oregon.  Sad to see trees felled but better a few then just
burning up whole multiple sections of forests with all the wildlife burned
to death too.
These idiots are turning central california into a desert, all the tree
farms with oranges and nuts have been droughted out by the theft of water
from the farmers.  It is going to be sand dunes soon.  The trappers killed
all the beavers and ruined our natural aquifers, now the ecologists want to
remove the hydroelectric dams and finish it off with desertification.  The
fish ladders are all in disrepair and the Salmon cant spawn.  This is
because the globalist have a wildlands project to renove all people.
Idiots forgot about beavers.

On Wed, Dec 12, 2018, 9:34 PM george gray [email protected]
[EVGRAY] <[email protected]> wrote:

>
>
> Good post Ole,
>
> The cutting down of trees is one of the most disturbing things to nature.
> Tree felling, ground clearing, broad acre grain crop farming, and over
> grazing of animals are the things that start deserts.
>
> Trees bring rain and nature cycles the rain according to the trees and the
> moisture therein. Deserts do not bring rain.
>
> In a forest the ground is protected from the sun by the foliage and the
> litter on the ground and when it rains the water is fully absorbed into the
> soil.
>
> When the land is exposed to the sun and baked it cannot absorb water when
> it rains and so the road to deserts continues and gets worse with time.
> Ploughing the ground does great harm in exposing it to the sun.
>
> The correct diet for humans is raw fruits, raw vegetables and water.
> Humans are not designed to eat grains or grain products, which are acid
> forming in the body and cause the ONE disease with 400 symptoms.
>
> Cooked food is a slow poison so we don't need to eat animals or other
> things which require cooking.
>
> By planting billions of fruit trees the earth will be protected from the
> sun and the deserts can slowly be recovered.
>
> For the first 1,656 years up to the flood of Noah people are raw food and
> lived for well over 900 years.
>
> If you study Viktor Schaubeger's writings he was always trying to be in
> harmony with nature and he understood the cycles of forests and water.
>
> There is no other creature on earth that first destroys its food by
> cooking; humans are the only creatures out of step with nature and also no
> other adult creature on earth drinks milk.
>
> People have been led in all directions away from nature and what is good
> for us and they are addicted to the unnatural ways of life.
>
> However Agenda 2030 with the UN in control of the earth for a little while
> is not far off, and that makes God's war of Armageddon a close reality now,
> so we can all learn how to live healthy lives in the not too distant future.
>
> George
>
> On Thursday, 13 December 2018, 10:45:07 am AEDT, [email protected]
> [EVGRAY] <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Viktor Schauberger studied nature and was convinced that explosive energy
> sources violated nature. Schaubergers home power plant and levitating
> technology used implosion. He warned that nature would be destroyed the air
> would be unbreathable and the water dead if continuing with using more and
> more explosion energy. The explosive principle decomposes matter while the
> implosion principle builds up matter. I don't know if he has been proven
> wrong or right but as a human I would rather breath oxygen than CO2. If I
> was a tree I would probably prefer CO2 instead. The problem is that the
> balance of the atmosphere is changing faster than the evolution of humans.
> Thus will we be able to live at this planet that is changing faster than
> ever? The weaker species are already dispreading at alarming rates. Will we
> be the next one?
>
> Schauberger and many others have shown alternatives to explosion energy.
> If nobody can guarantee that it isn't necessary for coming generations to
> be able to live here we really shouldn't work against nature. Nature
> probably will win no mater what we do. The problem is is it with us or
> without us in the equation. It is said that thousands die because of
> breathing polluted air in the cities. Some cities have achieved much
> cleaner air making it easier to have long lives in them. Because lots of
> people make their living using destructive technology doesn't mean they
> will survive in the long run when destroying the planet they live on.
>
> Even the more and more destructive weather is said to be natures way of
> trying to re-balance itself. The more we disturb nature the more nature
> tries to balance itself even if this means destroying humankind.
>
> Instead of eating cows just eat less cow which makes a difference in the
> number of cows. As the Chinese are getting richer they also eat more meat.
> So should they increase their level to the level of the most cow eating
> nations or should the most cow eating nations decline in the amount of cows
> to solve the problem? I don't see increasing the level helps solve the
> problem even for the people that wants to survive.
>
> Regards
> Ole
>
>
> ---In [email protected], <nwootan@...> wrote :
>
> Study NATURE.   Simple fact is that the volcanoes around the planet place
> more green house gases into stratosphere than has mankind since we have
> been on earth.  Simple fact. Read just one example.
> https://pubs.usgs.gov/fs/1997/fs113-97/
>
>  Now consider a much worse green house gas (25X worse than CO2) , Methane,
> which is released from the frozen methane hydrate off the Continental shelf
> and the Arctic tundra.  See
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methane_clathrate
>
> And the idiots want to legislate COW FARTS.    YES, Mars has a CO2
> atmosphere due to all the SUVs running around up there.
> On 12/11/2018 7:42 PM, Mick mkjekyll@... [EVGRAY] wrote:
>
>
>
> Ole,
>
> Go check the math the man made CO2 causing a problem is a farce.
>
> CO2 which only emits at three hi Q nodes 10 point something microns 5 and
> one more is being calculated as a full bandwidth black body radiator,
> secondly there is no distinction between night and daytime in the calcs.
> Infra red is 1mm to 700 nanometers far wider than the 3 infra red nodes of
> excited CO2.  It takes a good amount of energy to excite co2 to release any
> energy.  Pretty much all the heat re-radiated by Co2 will take place within
> 10 meters of the ground. About the height of most trees.
>
>   Any child knows a cloud passing overhead cools, only at night can water
> vapor the largest greenhouse gas trap and reflect energy. CO2 weighs more
> than nitrogen, it stays where plants like to turn it back to oxygen.  In
> fact there is a lake in Africa that is volcanic and burps CO2.  When this
> happens it travels into the valleys and suffocates all the local villages
> humans and animals, because it is too heavy to rise and displaces the
> oxygen and nitrogen.
> The ice core samples were flipped the wrong way initially it was reported
> that CO2 increase then temp increase.  Actually C02 increase was lagging
> the global heating by 600 or so years in the ice samples, did any revisions
> take place in the science, not at all, none I could find anyways.
>
> Man made Co2 levels may be 3 percent of total, fluctuations from fires and
> volcanoes can often vary 20 percent from the normal natural levels that are
> a hell of a lot higher than the 3 percent of human use.
>
> When one is a professor one only is awarded grants based on what the think
> tanks dictate, this is why no alternative energy as we are familiar with
> here is ever funded.  Yes I think all of us at this site want petroleum
> energy to go the way of the dinosaurs, but CO2 isn't the problem.   Carbon
> monoxide, sulfur dioxide, and many others are actually a poison not a
> symbiotic biological as is Co2
>
> Now for the reality, when all the outlook is bad and fearful the sky is
> falling, nothing like Hey we can now grow crops at further northern
> latitudes!, or we are using less energy heating our homes.  No instead it's
> all gloom and doom and fear based and the seas are rising etc etc.  When
> one sees a binary conscientious one should expect to be bent over without
> lube.
>
> So Al Gore and James blood create a futures exchange to trade carbon
> credit so one need only pay them to pollute more, hey problem solved just
> sign on the dotted line.  Most of the industry has been moved to China and
> India, they are exempted from the carbon emission limitations.  Sound like
> a scam yet.
> We are about to hit a bifurcation point when the weather goes the other
> way and not slowly, quickly like turning a thermostat.  All the global
> warming distopian fear will be replaced by wishing it will heat up
> instead.  Sapiens are really an arrogant lot, pretending they can determine
> a problem of this magnitude with a temporal limited data set built on a
> pathetic excuse for the scientific process in which empirical thought has
> been completely disregarded because the top of the pyramid has a plan for
> us all.  Have a view at odds to conscientious and one is labeled a heretic
> or a denier.  Sounds like the Spanish inquisition.  Throw another Bruno on
> the fire, we need some heat...
>
> Now lets talk about real problems, bunker oil running the super cargo
> ships.  About 18 of these ships produce enough pollution in our oceans as
> all the cars combined on the planet, there are hundreds of these, maybe
> thousands shitting up the ocean with fuels so thick one can walk on it
> until it is preheated to burn in the engines.  Fracking causing the
> poisoning of our water tables across the planet but the EPA will not lift a
> hand because the fracking chemicals are a secret protected intellectual
> property so they allegedly can't know if they are damaging. The contrails
> from the new turbine bypass engines which burn much cooler hence stay
> suspended much longer are changing the planets temperature bigtime.  It was
> measured when during 911 no planes were flying.
>
> I like CO2 and believe it to be a cooling gas based on my work with
> flowing gas CO2 lasers.  It makes plants grow and replaces out gassed and
> burned oxygen from our atmosphere so we can live, no CO2 no oxygen.  None
> of the claims from Gores silly movie have happened yet as the sea was
> supposed to rise many feet by now. A few MM over the last hundred years it
> has actually been measured to rise. The polar bears are all drowned, even
> though they can swim hundreds of miles in a go.
>
> I am glad your country produces clean energy, this is something we should
> all aspire to but I will pray to keep my CO2 and revel in natures power as
> each season of change the CO2 is released and then re-absorbed and
> transmuted into breathable oxygen.
>
>
> On 12/11/2018 7:48 AM, onielsen@... [EVGRAY] wrote:
>
>
>
> Hi Mick,
>
> "Free markets rather than socially overseen bullshit ones like UN fucking
> carbon credits where CO2 is now some pollutant but paying Gore will fix the
> problem."
> Our government has come up with a climate plan that experts as well as
> industry says isn't ambitious enough to solve the problem. The glaciers of
> Greenland are melting at increasing rates. The permafrost of Siberia is
> melting too causing huge releases of methane gas which is a much worse
> greenhouse gas than CO2. The CO2 level is at an extreme height. The melting
> of the ice of Greenland will cause big trouble for many highly populated
> areas along coastlines. This may cause millions of refugees from big cities
> when becoming uninhabitable. Therefore it is much cheaper to do something
> about the problem now than waiting a decade to solve it. This will make
> lots of jobs in creating solutions instead of having to evacuate big cities
> and coastlines. My small country is great in the world of producing wind
> turbines and energy efficient technology. We really need such non fossil
> energy alternatives if we want to still live above sea level. Evacuating a
> country and its high infrastructure will be quite expensive. Besides where
> should all the people go when lots of area will be affected in other
> countries too? To make the wind power industry was expensive for the tax
> payers but now it is a big export article making the investment pay back as
> well as having free energy and cleaner air.
>
> The idea with the CO2 tax is to force people away from increasing the
> already huge fossil energy problem as well as paying for solutions.
> Investing the money in cleaner technology in the most polluting countries
> gives the best climate payback. Of course taxes aren't good in corrupt
> places. Thus first get rid of corruption which requires open systems.
>
> Countries like India China Russia and USA have great potential to reduce
> CO2 emissions.
>
> Regards
> Ole
>
>
> ---In [email protected], <mkjekyll@...> <mkjekyll@...> wrote :
>
> Kone,
>
> I agree with your assessment and don't believe anyone should own resources
> outside their own country, perhaps a limited lease in exchange for building
> the infrastructure.  There is greed and lack of ethics in all systems
> socialist or capitalist.
>
> Crony capitalism is evil.  War economies are evil, unchecked profit
> without ethics is evil. Lack of competition due to monopoly is evil. A
> system where one is able to live free and build competitive business in an
> ethical way is the ultimate for human ascendance.  Unfortunately the US has
> been taken over by greedy people without ethics.  The government in
> Venezuela is fucked, this is why we have so many people migrating to
> Colombia starving and looking for work.  I speak to these people every day,
> no bullshit.  It is not the US fault what happened it is the fault of
> greedy pig socialist same as greedy pig capitalist.
>
> Venezuela was a paradise and then the dictator forced out all the oil
> company engineers and other Venezuelan business professionals who knew what
> they were doing in order to give high paying jobs to military politicos who
> did not know shit but could protect his ass.  All the profitable businesses
> were socialized in these ways.  From what the Venezuelan doctor told me the
> roots of all of the downfall was promulgated the most by Cuban social
> engineering much more so than US spook shit, though that was dirty pool no
> doubt.  Poor people who do not fight to better themselves or are limited
> for other reasons will always vote for the most free shit but someone has
> to pay for it, sooner or later all the good businesses leave and their are
> no jobs. Free markets rather than socially overseen bullshit ones like UN
> fucking carbon credits where CO2 is now some pollutant but paying Gore will
> fix the problem.  Total socialist top down control based business model.
> The places I go where one can live well and has the best access to goods
> and services are free market vertically integrated, all the socialist top
> down controlled have much less options to a person willing to perform learn
> and grow.  Unfortunately some people elicit a failure to thrive, in nature
> same thing happens with animals, existence takes fucking hard work.
>
> Doesn't matter the system human frailty is the sad part. Ideally we should
> have no government and be self governing but sapiens are not grounded and
> ethical enough yet and likely never will be as long as they are taught
> UNESCO all suffering is due to someone else and they are simply victims of
> circumstance.  The truth about Venezuela is assholes took over and
> destroyed a healthy economy.  There were CIA shenanigans for sure but this
> is not the reason for the place sucking now.  Also Ecuador is changing to
> this shitty system where the socialist government thinks they can fix
> everything by taxing business's.  No one we spoke with who owned a pizza
> place or a market etc were using bank accounts anymore because their money
> kept being appropriated for public works with higher taxes every few
> months.  It is in a sad state now full of crime and hateful victim
> mentality.  Barely any selection at markets many shelves are not stocked.
> Businesses are being forced offshore or closing so there is the truth
> witnessed firsthand.  Being that I live in South America I have the
> opportunity to assess these issues first hand.
> On 12/10/2018 4:15 PM, konehead@... [EVGRAY] wrote:
>
>
>
> Pure bullshit propaganda "socialist" government being cause of big
> problems in venezuala. The fucking capitalist war monger pigs in wadhington
> dc are the problem, blockading, sanctioning. Starvng, sending in.metcenarie
> ( paid terrorists) from Columbia and whoever wants to make a CIA buck
> killing innocent plus Supposed humanitarian NGOs paying protestrs to start
> riots and all the other shit capitalist profit first evil pigs from hell
> will do.
> Its all standard procedure for CIA and State department anytime a
> "socialist" government .voted into office tells US capitalist orporations
> to get the fuck out of their country and will never allow US military base
> on their soil.
> Imagine the gal l to kick out US corporations who say they "own" land and
> industry in a country and give the land and industry to the citizens of the
> country!! Fuck that is reason to invade kill thousands of socialist
> peasants who would be better off dead than communist sympathizers eh...
>
> 
>

George,

What I can comment on from firsthand knowledge is that in Oregon the
privately held forest land is much better managed.  They learned a long
time ago if they don't replant properly the land becomes worthless.   It
is mostly the BLM (public?) forestry land which is the most mismanaged
as they just take money from the highest bidder and then rip out the
trees to chip for the Chinese market.  Oregonians who live and work in
the forest knew about the spotted owl scam by Gore and company.  They
are a fairly common animal.  Outsiders were brought in in the 70's to
begin the process and act like native Oregonians, they used fake names
and were very paranoid and undercover.  Many paid protestors suddenly
appeared no one knew them from the neighborhoods.  When they were
successful in the government manipulation they left the state to the
next "project". Now BLM are going into the forest with rifles and
killing other Owls claiming they are a threat to the spotted owl.  It is
very sick and arrogant behavior by people just blindly following
orders.  This is another example of how feel good legislation can change
humans into monsters.  They also kill swaths of tress by injecting
roundup into the phloem and cambium.  They do not pay attention to earth
mother or listen to the soul of the forest.
Anyone one whom does not respect earth mother is a fucking parasite. 
When sitting in on BLM meetings it is so transparent the manipulation. 
They send in professional facilitators who pretend to work for BLM and
steer the people attending to reaching a predetermined outcome.  They
are very slick and make it seem as though the people have come up with
this plan for action on their own.  The latest is called the Wild lands
Project and all the musicians, artists and hippy types are blindly being
led to justify projects to destroy infrastructure so humans will be
unable to live in these rural places. Warren Buffet is behind some of
this too.

If biblical or not they are following the Revelations like a movie
script.  Anyhow, yes you are entirely correct, this is the game plan
some have known about for many years when it was explained by some few
good elites.  It is very sad Sapiens are selling out their own
children's future for money and power.  Many will starve from this
Chaos.  Some of the Elites are against this and they are now forced to
sit on the sidelines or be financially ruined for even questioning. Some
will help during the chaos like the underground railroad and it will be
very anonymous. Each year in the US there is a meeting of all the
families who are worth one billion or more, it is nothing that has been
leaked on the internet as security is so intense.  There will be an
economic or transport catastrophe and personal chips will be the resolution.

It would be helpful if you could post recommendations of ideas in which
folks can prepare and save food long term for the raw and vegan type
diet you support.

I was told one must remain flexible without bending, Flexibility without
bending!


On 12/13/2018 5:32 PM, george gray [email protected] [EVGRAY] wrote:
>  
> Yes Mick, you are absolutely correct. We do have to manage or control
> the earth and tend to it.  But what I'm trying to get across is the
> fact that we are mismanaging the earth and the Elite are destroying it
> in their quest to have complete control of it and us.  If we don't
> control/manage it, then for sure we will have out of control wild
> fires and also more deserts.  My understanding is that within the next
> 10 years or less the Elite will have caused so much chaos in every
> country that the people will gladly accept "order out of chaos" by
> choosing the UN as the one world government.  I can see all this from
> the bible and have been watching it develop for over 60 years.
>
> The governments are merely puppets controlled by the Elite, but the
> Elite are also puppets controlled by Satan the Devil who is misleading
> the entire inhabited earth.  God's war of Armageddon is between God
> and His angels and the Devil and his angels.  God is going to be
> successful and the Devil is to be cast down and away from mankind for
> 1,000 years.  During the 1,000 years we will bring the whole earth
> into a paradise so we will all have to learn how to control everything
> correctly learning about the many cycles of life that exist on earth.
>
> The time is short now and the chaos will quickly get much worse all
> over the earth, so keep your eyes open and just watch how things
> develop.  We cannot stop what has been allowed to be set in motion so
> we must learn how to bend like a reed so as not to break.  Don't try
> to swim upstream because the current will be too strong and if you put
> your head up out of the trenches you will get it blown off so to
> speak.  Go with the flow and see if you can live through what is coming.
>
> George
>
>
> On Thursday, 13 December 2018, 10:52:43 pm AEDT, Mick Jekyll
> [email protected] [EVGRAY] <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>  
> George, You forgot one thing, the green vs gold reflection back from
> the sun.  Where there are no trees the temperature rises with places
> that have the grains that go gold and brown after early spring.  A
> thick forest does need to be tended else it just becomes overgrown.and
> burns up.  Responsible logging and replanting kept the firebreaks and
> roads we used to use to fight fires in Oregon.  Sad to see trees
> felled but better a few then just burning up whole multiple sections
> of forests with all the wildlife burned to death too.
> These idiots are turning central california into a desert, all the
> tree farms with oranges and nuts have been droughted out by the theft
> of water from the farmers.  It is going to be sand dunes soon.  The
> trappers killed all the beavers and ruined our natural aquifers, now
> the ecologists want to remove the hydroelectric dams and finish it off
> with desertification.  The fish ladders are all in disrepair and the
> Salmon cant spawn.  This is because the globalist have a wildlands
> project to renove all people.  Idiots forgot about beavers.
>
> On Wed, Dec 12, 2018, 9:34 PM george gray [email protected]
> <mailto:[email protected]> [EVGRAY] <[email protected]
> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
>
>      
>     Good post Ole,
>
>     The cutting down of trees is one of the most disturbing things to
>     nature.  Tree felling, ground clearing, broad acre grain crop
>     farming, and over grazing of animals are the things that start
>     deserts.
>
>     Trees bring rain and nature cycles the rain according to the trees
>     and the moisture therein. Deserts do not bring rain.
>
>     In a forest the ground is protected from the sun by the foliage
>     and the litter on the ground and when it rains the water is fully
>     absorbed into the soil.
>
>     When the land is exposed to the sun and baked it cannot absorb
>     water when it rains and so the road to deserts continues and gets
>     worse with time. Ploughing the ground does great harm in exposing
>     it to the sun.
>
>     The correct diet for humans is raw fruits, raw vegetables and
>     water.  Humans are not designed to eat grains or grain products,
>     which are acid forming in the body and cause the ONE disease with
>     400 symptoms.
>
>     Cooked food is a slow poison so we don't need to eat animals or
>     other things which require cooking.
>
>     By planting billions of fruit trees the earth will be protected
>     from the sun and the deserts can slowly be recovered.
>
>     For the first 1,656 years up to the flood of Noah people are raw
>     food and lived for well over 900 years.
>
>     If you study Viktor Schaubeger's writings he was always trying to
>     be in harmony with nature and he understood the cycles of forests
>     and water.
>
>     There is no other creature on earth that first destroys its food
>     by cooking; humans are the only creatures out of step with nature
>     and also no other adult creature on earth drinks milk.
>
>     People have been led in all directions away from nature and what
>     is good for us and they are addicted to the unnatural ways of life.
>
>     However Agenda 2030 with the UN in control of the earth for a
>     little while is not far off, and that makes God's war of
>     Armageddon a close reality now, so we can all learn how to live
>     healthy lives in the not too distant future.
>
>     George
>
>     On Thursday, 13 December 2018, 10:45:07 am AEDT,
>     [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> [EVGRAY]
>     <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
>
>
>      
>
>     Viktor Schauberger studied nature and was convinced that explosive
>     energy sources violated nature. Schaubergers home power plant and
>     levitating technology used implosion. He warned that nature would
>     be destroyed the air would be unbreathable and the water dead if
>     continuing with using more and more explosion energy. The
>     explosive principle decomposes matter while the implosion
>     principle builds up matter. I don't know if he has been proven
>     wrong or right but as a human I would rather breath oxygen than
>     CO2. If I was a tree I would probably prefer CO2 instead. The
>     problem is that the balance of the atmosphere is changing faster
>     than the evolution of humans.. Thus will we be able to live at
>     this planet that is changing faster than ever? The weaker species
>     are already dispreading at alarming rates. Will we be the next one?
>
>     Schauberger and many others have shown alternatives to explosion
>     energy. If nobody can guarantee that it isn't necessary for coming
>     generations to be able to live here we really shouldn't work
>     against nature. Nature probably will win no mater what we do. The
>     problem is is it with us or without us in the equation. It is said
>     that thousands die because of breathing polluted air in the
>     cities. Some cities have achieved much cleaner air making it
>     easier to have long lives in them. Because lots of people make
>     their living using destructive technology doesn't mean they will
>     survive in the long run when destroying the planet they live on.
>
>     Even the more and more destructive weather is said to be natures
>     way of trying to re-balance itself. The more we disturb nature the
>     more nature tries to balance itself even if this means destroying
>     humankind.
>
>     Instead of eating cows just eat less cow which makes a difference
>     in the number of cows. As the Chinese are getting richer they also
>     eat more meat. So should they increase their level to the level of
>     the most cow eating nations or should the most cow eating nations
>     decline in the amount of cows to solve the problem? I don't see
>     increasing the level helps solve the problem even for the people
>     that wants to survive.
>
>     Regards
>     Ole
>
>
>
>     ---In [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>,
>     <nwootan@...> wrote :
>
>     Study NATURE.   Simple fact is that the volcanoes around the
>     planet place more green house gases into stratosphere than has
>     mankind since we have been on earth.  Simple fact. Read just one
>     example. https://pubs.usgs.gov/fs/1997/fs113-97/
>
>      Now consider a much worse green house gas (25X worse than CO2) ,
>     Methane, which is released from the frozen methane hydrate off the
>     Continental shelf and the Arctic tundra.  See  
>     https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methane_clathrate
>
>     And the idiots want to legislate COW FARTS.    YES, Mars has a CO2
>     atmosphere due to all the SUVs running around up there.
>
>     On 12/11/2018 7:42 PM, Mick mkjekyll@... <mailto:mkjekyll@...>
>     [EVGRAY] wrote:
>
>>          
>>
>>         Ole,
>>
>>         Go check the math the man made CO2 causing a problem is a farce.
>>
>>         CO2 which only emits at three hi Q nodes 10 point something
>>         microns 5 and one more is being calculated as a full
>>         bandwidth black body radiator, secondly there is no
>>         distinction between night and daytime in the calcs.
>>         Infra red is 1mm to 700 nanometers far wider than the 3 infra
>>         red nodes of excited CO2.  It takes a good amount of energy
>>         to excite co2 to release any energy.  Pretty much all the
>>         heat re-radiated by Co2 will take place within 10 meters of
>>         the ground. About the height of most trees.
>>
>>           Any child knows a cloud passing overhead cools, only at
>>         night can water vapor the largest greenhouse gas trap and
>>         reflect energy. CO2 weighs more than nitrogen, it stays where
>>         plants like to turn it back to oxygen.  In fact there is a
>>         lake in Africa that is volcanic and burps CO2.  When this
>>         happens it travels into the valleys and suffocates all the
>>         local villages humans and animals, because it is too heavy to
>>         rise and displaces the oxygen and nitrogen.  
>>         The ice core samples were flipped the wrong way initially it
>>         was reported that CO2 increase then temp increase.  Actually
>>         C02 increase was lagging the global heating by 600 or so
>>         years in the ice samples, did any revisions take place in the
>>         science, not at all, none I could find anyways.
>>
>>         Man made Co2 levels may be 3 percent of total, fluctuations
>>         from fires and volcanoes can often vary 20 percent from the
>>         normal natural levels that are a hell of a lot higher than
>>         the 3 percent of human use.
>>
>>         When one is a professor one only is awarded grants based on
>>         what the think tanks dictate, this is why no alternative
>>         energy as we are familiar with here is ever funded.  Yes I
>>         think all of us at this site want petroleum energy to go the
>>         way of the dinosaurs, but CO2 isn't the problem.   Carbon
>>         monoxide, sulfur dioxide, and many others are actually a
>>         poison not a symbiotic biological as is Co2
>>
>>         Now for the reality, when all the outlook is bad and fearful
>>         the sky is falling, nothing like Hey we can now grow crops at
>>         further northern latitudes!, or we are using less energy
>>         heating our homes.  No instead it's all gloom and doom and
>>         fear based and the seas are rising etc etc.  When one sees a
>>         binary conscientious one should expect to be bent over
>>         without lube.
>>
>>         So Al Gore and James blood create a futures exchange to trade
>>         carbon credit so one need only pay them to pollute more, hey
>>         problem solved just sign on the dotted line.  Most of the
>>         industry has been moved to China and India, they are exempted
>>         from the carbon emission limitations.  Sound like a scam yet. 
>>         We are about to hit a bifurcation point when the weather goes
>>         the other way and not slowly, quickly like turning a
>>         thermostat.  All the global warming distopian fear will be
>>         replaced by wishing it will heat up instead.  Sapiens are
>>         really an arrogant lot, pretending they can determine a
>>         problem of this magnitude with a temporal limited data set
>>         built on a pathetic excuse for the scientific process in
>>         which empirical thought has been completely disregarded
>>         because the top of the pyramid has a plan for us all.  Have a
>>         view at odds to conscientious and one is labeled a heretic or
>>         a denier.  Sounds like the Spanish inquisition.  Throw
>>         another Bruno on the fire, we need some heat...
>>
>>         Now lets talk about real problems, bunker oil running the
>>         super cargo ships.  About 18 of these ships produce enough
>>         pollution in our oceans as all the cars combined on the
>>         planet, there are hundreds of these, maybe thousands shitting
>>         up the ocean with fuels so thick one can walk on it until it
>>         is preheated to burn in the engines.  Fracking causing the
>>         poisoning of our water tables across the planet but the EPA
>>         will not lift a hand because the fracking chemicals are a
>>         secret protected intellectual property so they allegedly
>>         can't know if they are damaging. The contrails from the new
>>         turbine bypass engines which burn much cooler hence stay
>>         suspended much longer are changing the planets temperature
>>         bigtime.  It was measured when during 911 no planes were flying.
>>
>>         I like CO2 and believe it to be a cooling gas based on my
>>         work with flowing gas CO2 lasers.  It makes plants grow and
>>         replaces out gassed and burned oxygen from our atmosphere so
>>         we can live, no CO2 no oxygen.  None of the claims from Gores
>>         silly movie have happened yet as the sea was supposed to rise
>>         many feet by now. A few MM over the last hundred years it has
>>         actually been measured to rise. The polar bears are all
>>         drowned, even though they can swim hundreds of miles in a go.
>>
>>         I am glad your country produces clean energy, this is
>>         something we should all aspire to but I will pray to keep my
>>         CO2 and revel in natures power as each season of change the
>>         CO2 is released and then re-absorbed and transmuted into
>>         breathable oxygen.
>>
>>
>>         On 12/11/2018 7:48 AM, onielsen@... <mailto:onielsen@...>
>>         [EVGRAY] wrote:
>>>          
>>>
>>>         Hi Mick,
>>>
>>>         "Free markets rather than socially overseen bullshit ones
>>>         like UN fucking carbon credits where CO2 is now some
>>>         pollutant but paying Gore will fix the problem."
>>>         Our government has come up with a climate plan that experts
>>>         as well as industry says isn't ambitious enough to solve the
>>>         problem. The glaciers of Greenland are melting at increasing
>>>         rates. The permafrost of Siberia is melting too causing huge
>>>         releases of methane gas which is a much worse greenhouse gas
>>>         than CO2. The CO2 level is at an extreme height. The melting
>>>         of the ice of Greenland will cause big trouble for many
>>>         highly populated areas along coastlines. This may cause
>>>         millions of refugees from big cities when becoming
>>>         uninhabitable. Therefore it is much cheaper to do something
>>>         about the problem now than waiting a decade to solve it.
>>>         This will make lots of jobs in creating solutions instead of
>>>         having to evacuate big cities and coastlines. My small
>>>         country is great in the world of producing wind turbines and
>>>         energy efficient technology. We really need such non fossil
>>>         energy alternatives if we want to still live above sea
>>>         level. Evacuating a country and its high infrastructure will
>>>         be quite expensive. Besides where should all the people go
>>>         when lots of area will be affected in other countries too?
>>>         To make the wind power industry was expensive for the tax
>>>         payers but now it is a big export article making the
>>>         investment pay back as well as having free energy and
>>>         cleaner air.
>>>
>>>         The idea with the CO2 tax is to force people away from
>>>         increasing the already huge fossil energy problem as well as
>>>         paying for solutions. Investing the money in cleaner
>>>         technology in the most polluting countries gives the best
>>>         climate payback. Of course taxes aren't good in corrupt
>>>         places. Thus first get rid of corruption which requires open
>>>         systems.
>>>
>>>         Countries like India China Russia and USA have great
>>>         potential to reduce CO2 emissions.
>>>
>>>         Regards
>>>         Ole
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>         ---In [email protected]
>>>         <mailto:[email protected]>, <mkjekyll@...>
>>>         <mailto:mkjekyll@...> wrote :
>>>
>>>         Kone,
>>>
>>>         I agree with your assessment and don't believe anyone should
>>>         own resources outside their own country, perhaps a limited
>>>         lease in exchange for building the infrastructure.  There is
>>>         greed and lack of ethics in all systems socialist or capitalist.
>>>
>>>         Crony capitalism is evil.  War economies are evil, unchecked
>>>         profit without ethics is evil. Lack of competition due to
>>>         monopoly is evil. A system where one is able to live free
>>>         and build competitive business in an ethical way is the
>>>         ultimate for human ascendance.  Unfortunately the US has
>>>         been taken over by greedy people without ethics.  The
>>>         government in Venezuela is fucked, this is why we have so
>>>         many people migrating to Colombia starving and looking for
>>>         work.  I speak to these people every day, no bullshit.  It
>>>         is not the US fault what happened it is the fault of greedy
>>>         pig socialist same as greedy pig capitalist.
>>>
>>>         Venezuela was a paradise and then the dictator forced out
>>>         all the oil company engineers and other Venezuelan business
>>>         professionals who knew what they were doing in order to give
>>>         high paying jobs to military politicos who did not know shit
>>>         but could protect his ass.  All the profitable businesses
>>>         were socialized in these ways.  From what the Venezuelan
>>>         doctor told me the roots of all of the downfall was
>>>         promulgated the most by Cuban social engineering much more
>>>         so than US spook shit, though that was dirty pool no doubt. 
>>>         Poor people who do not fight to better themselves or are
>>>         limited for other reasons will always vote for the most free
>>>         shit but someone has to pay for it, sooner or later all the
>>>         good businesses leave and their are no jobs. Free markets
>>>         rather than socially overseen bullshit ones like UN fucking
>>>         carbon credits where CO2 is now some pollutant but paying
>>>         Gore will fix the problem.  Total socialist top down control
>>>         based business model.  The places I go where one can live
>>>         well and has the best access to goods and services are free
>>>         market vertically integrated, all the socialist top down
>>>         controlled have much less options to a person willing to
>>>         perform learn and grow.  Unfortunately some people elicit a
>>>         failure to thrive, in nature same thing happens with
>>>         animals, existence takes fucking hard work.
>>>
>>>         Doesn't matter the system human frailty is the sad part.
>>>         Ideally we should have no government and be self governing
>>>         but sapiens are not grounded and ethical enough yet and
>>>         likely never will be as long as they are taught UNESCO all
>>>         suffering is due to someone else and they are simply victims
>>>         of circumstance.  The truth about Venezuela is assholes took
>>>         over and destroyed a healthy economy.  There were CIA
>>>         shenanigans for sure but this is not the reason for the
>>>         place sucking now.  Also Ecuador is changing to this shitty
>>>         system where the socialist government thinks they can fix
>>>         everything by taxing business's.  No one we spoke with who
>>>         owned a pizza place or a market etc were using bank accounts
>>>         anymore because their money kept being appropriated for
>>>         public works with higher taxes every few months.  It is in a
>>>         sad state now full of crime and hateful victim mentality. 
>>>         Barely any selection at markets many shelves are not
>>>         stocked.  Businesses are being forced offshore or closing so
>>>         there is the truth witnessed firsthand.  Being that I live
>>>         in South America I have the opportunity to assess these
>>>         issues first hand.
>>>
>>>         On 12/10/2018 4:15 PM, konehead@... <mailto:konehead@...>
>>>         [EVGRAY] wrote:
>>>
>>>>              
>>>>
>>>>             Pure bullshit propaganda "socialist" government being
>>>>             cause of big problems in venezuala. The fucking
>>>>             capitalist war monger pigs in wadhington dc are the
>>>>             problem, blockading, sanctioning. Starvng, sending
>>>>             in.metcenarie ( paid terrorists) from Columbia and
>>>>             whoever wants to make a CIA buck killing innocent plus
>>>>             Supposed humanitarian NGOs paying protestrs to start
>>>>             riots and all the other shit capitalist profit first
>>>>             evil pigs from hell will do.
>>>>             Its all standard procedure for CIA and State department
>>>>             anytime a "socialist" government .voted into office
>>>>             tells US capitalist orporations to get the fuck out of
>>>>             their country and will never allow US military base on
>>>>             their soil.
>>>>             Imagine the gal l to kick out US corporations who say
>>>>             they "own" land and industry in a country and give the
>>>>             land and industry to the citizens of the country!! Fuck
>>>>             that is reason to invade kill thousands of socialist
>>>>             peasants who would be better off dead than communist
>>>>             sympathizers eh...
>>>>
>

Yes Mick, you are absolutely correct. We do have to manage or control the earth and tend to it.  But what I'm trying to get across is the fact that we are mismanaging the earth and the Elite are destroying it in their quest to have complete control of it and us.  If we don't control/manage it, then for sure we will have out of control wild fires and also more deserts.  My understanding is that within the next 10 years or less the Elite will have caused so much chaos in every country that the people will gladly accept "order out of chaos" by choosing the UN as the one world government.  I can see all this from the bible and have been watching it develop for over 60 years.
The governments are merely puppets controlled by the Elite, but the Elite are also puppets controlled by Satan the Devil who is misleading the entire inhabited earth.  God's war of Armageddon is between God and His angels and the Devil and his angels.  God is going to be successful and the Devil is to be cast down and away from mankind for 1,000 years.  During the 1,000 years we will bring the whole earth into a paradise so we will all have to learn how to control everything correctly learning about the many cycles of life that exist on earth.
The time is short now and the chaos will quickly get much worse all over the earth, so keep your eyes open and just watch how things develop.  We cannot stop what has been allowed to be set in motion so we must learn how to bend like a reed so as not to break.  Don't try to swim upstream because the current will be too strong and if you put your head up out of the trenches you will get it blown off so to speak.  Go with the flow and see if you can live through what is coming.
George

    On Thursday, 13 December 2018, 10:52:43 pm AEDT, Mick Jekyll [email protected] [EVGRAY] <[email protected]> wrote:  
 
     

George, You forgot one thing, the green vs gold reflection back from the sun.  Where there are no trees the temperature rises with places that have the grains that go gold and brown after early spring.  A thick forest does need to be tended else it just becomes overgrown.and burns up.  Responsible logging and replanting kept the firebreaks and roads we used to use to fight fires in Oregon.  Sad to see trees felled but better a few then just burning up whole multiple sections of forests with all the wildlife burned to death too.These idiots are turning central california into a desert, all the tree farms with oranges and nuts have been droughted out by the theft of water from the farmers.  It is going to be sand dunes soon.  The trappers killed all the beavers and ruined our natural aquifers, now the ecologists want to remove the hydroelectric dams and finish it off with desertification.  The fish ladders are all in disrepair and the Salmon cant spawn.  This is because the globalist have a wildlands project to renove all people.  Idiots forgot about beavers.
On Wed, Dec 12, 2018, 9:34 PM george gray [email protected] [EVGRAY] <[email protected]> wrote:

     

 Good post Ole,
The cutting down of trees is one of the most disturbing things to nature.  Tree felling, ground clearing, broad acre grain crop farming, and over grazing of animals are the things that start deserts.
Trees bring rain and nature cycles the rain according to the trees and the moisture therein. Deserts do not bring rain.
In a forest the ground is protected from the sun by the foliage and the litter on the ground and when it rains the water is fully absorbed into the soil.
When the land is exposed to the sun and baked it cannot absorb water when it rains and so the road to deserts continues and gets worse with time. Ploughing the ground does great harm in exposing it to the sun.

The correct diet for humans is raw fruits, raw vegetables and water.  Humans are not designed to eat grains or grain products, which are acid forming in the body and cause the ONE disease with 400 symptoms.
Cooked food is a slow poison so we don't need to eat animals or other things which require cooking.
By planting billions of fruit trees the earth will be protected from the sun and the deserts can slowly be recovered.
For the first 1,656 years up to the flood of Noah people are raw food and lived for well over 900 years.
If you study Viktor Schaubeger's writings he was always trying to be in harmony with nature and he understood the cycles of forests and water.
There is no other creature on earth that first destroys its food by cooking; humans are the only creatures out of step with nature and also no other adult creature on earth drinks milk.
People have been led in all directions away from nature and what is good for us and they are addicted to the unnatural ways of life.
However Agenda 2030 with the UN in control of the earth for a little while is not far off, and that makes God's war of Armageddon a close reality now, so we can all learn how to live healthy lives in the not too distant future.
George

    On Thursday, 13 December 2018, 10:45:07 am AEDT, [email protected] [EVGRAY] <[email protected]> wrote:  
 
     
Viktor Schauberger studied nature and was convinced that explosive energy sources violated nature. Schaubergers home power plant and levitating technology used implosion. He warned that nature would be destroyed the air would be unbreathable and the water dead if continuing with using more and more explosion energy. The explosive principle decomposes matter while the implosion principle builds up matter. I don't know if he has been proven wrong or right but as a human I would rather breath oxygen than CO2. If I was a tree I would probably prefer CO2 instead. The problem is that the balance of the atmosphere is changing faster than the evolution of humans.. Thus will we be able to live at this planet that is changing faster than ever? The weaker species are already dispreading at alarming rates. Will we be the next one?

Schauberger and many others have shown alternatives to explosion energy. If nobody can guarantee that it isn't necessary for coming generations to be able to live here we really shouldn't work against nature. Nature probably will win no mater what we do. The problem is is it with us or without us in the equation. It is said that thousands die because of breathing polluted air in the cities. Some cities have achieved much cleaner air making it easier to have long lives in them. Because lots of people make their living using destructive technology doesn't mean they will survive in the long run when destroying the planet they live on.

Even the more and more destructive weather is said to be natures way of trying to re-balance itself. The more we disturb nature the more nature tries to balance itself even if this means destroying humankind.

Instead of eating cows just eat less cow which makes a difference in the number of cows. As the Chinese are getting richer they also eat more meat. So should they increase their level to the level of the most cow eating nations or should the most cow eating nations decline in the amount of cows to solve the problem? I don't see increasing the level helps solve the problem even for the people that wants to survive.

Regards
Ole



---In [email protected], <nwootan@...> wrote :


Study NATURE.   Simple fact is that the volcanoes around theplanet place more green house gases into stratosphere than hasmankind since we have been on earth.  Simple fact. Read just oneexample. https://pubs.usgs.gov/fs/1997/fs113-97/

 Now consider a much worse green house gas (25X worse than CO2) ,Methane, which is released from the frozen methane hydrate off theContinental shelf and the Arctic tundra.  See  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methane_clathrate

And the idiots want to legislate COW FARTS.    YES, Mars has aCO2 atmosphere due to all the SUVs running around up there.

On 12/11/2018 7:42 PM, Mickmkjekyll@... [EVGRAY] wrote:


 


Ole,

Go check the math the man made CO2 causing a problem is afarce.

CO2 which only emits at three hi Q nodes 10 pointsomething microns 5 and one more is being calculated as afull bandwidth black body radiator, secondly there is nodistinction between night and daytime in the calcs.
Infra red is 1mm to 700 nanometers far wider than the 3infra red nodes of excited CO2.  It takes a good amount ofenergy to excite co2 to release any energy.  Pretty muchall the heat re-radiated by Co2 will take place within 10meters of the ground. About the height of most trees.


  Any child knows a cloud passing overhead cools, only atnight can water vapor the largest greenhouse gas trap andreflect energy. CO2 weighs more than nitrogen, it stayswhere plants like to turn it back to oxygen.  In factthere is a lake in Africa that is volcanic and burps CO2. When this happens it travels into the valleys andsuffocates all the local villages humans and animals,because it is too heavy to rise and displaces the oxygenand nitrogen.   
The ice core samples were flipped the wrong way initiallyit was reported that CO2 increase then temp increase. Actually C02 increase was lagging the global heating by600 or so years in the ice samples, did any revisions takeplace in the science, not at all, none I could findanyways.


Man made Co2 levels may be 3 percent of total,fluctuations from fires and volcanoes can often vary 20percent from the normal natural levels that are a hell ofa lot higher than the 3 percent of human use.

When one is a professor one only is awarded grants basedon what the think tanks dictate, this is why noalternative energy as we are familiar with here is everfunded.  Yes I think all of us at this site want petroleumenergy to go the way of the dinosaurs, but CO2 isn't theproblem.   Carbon monoxide, sulfur dioxide, and manyothers are actually a poison not a symbiotic biological asis Co2


Now for the reality, when all the outlook is bad andfearful the sky is falling, nothing like Hey we can nowgrow crops at further northern latitudes!, or we are usingless energy heating our homes.  No instead it's all gloomand doom and fear based and the seas are rising etc etc. When one sees a binary conscientious one should expect tobe bent over without lube.


So Al Gore and James blood create a futures exchange totrade carbon credit so one need only pay them to pollutemore, hey problem solved just sign on the dotted line. Most of the industry has been moved to China and India,they are exempted from the carbon emission limitations. Sound like a scam yet.  
We are about to hit a bifurcation point when the weathergoes the other way and not slowly, quickly like turning athermostat.  All the global warming distopian fear will bereplaced by wishing it will heat up instead.  Sapiens arereally an arrogant lot, pretending they can determine aproblem of this magnitude with a temporal limited data setbuilt on a pathetic excuse for the scientific process inwhich empirical thought has been completely disregardedbecause the top of the pyramid has a plan for us all. Have a view at odds to conscientious and one is labeled aheretic or a denier.  Sounds like the Spanishinquisition.  Throw another Bruno on the fire, we needsome heat...


Now lets talk about real problems, bunker oil running thesuper cargo ships.  About 18 of these ships produce enoughpollution in our oceans as all the cars combined on theplanet, there are hundreds of these, maybe thousandsshitting up the ocean with fuels so thick one can walk onit until it is preheated to burn in the engines.  Frackingcausing the poisoning of our water tables across theplanet but the EPA will not lift a hand because thefracking chemicals are a secret protected intellectualproperty so they allegedly can't know if they aredamaging. The contrails from the new turbine bypassengines which burn much cooler hence stay suspended muchlonger are changing the planets temperature bigtime.  Itwas measured when during 911 no planes were flying.

I like CO2 and believe it to be a cooling gas based on mywork with flowing gas CO2 lasers.  It makes plants growand replaces out gassed and burned oxygen from ouratmosphere so we can live, no CO2 no oxygen.  None of theclaims from Gores silly movie have happened yet as the seawas supposed to rise many feet by now. A few MM over thelast hundred years it has actually been measured to rise.The polar bears are all drowned, even though they can swimhundreds of miles in a go.

I am glad your country produces clean energy, this issomething we should all aspire to but I will pray to keepmy CO2 and revel in natures power as each season of changethe CO2 is released and then re-absorbed and transmutedinto breathable oxygen.




On 12/11/2018 7:48 AM, onielsen@...[EVGRAY] wrote:

  
Hi Mick,

"Free markets rather than sociallyoverseen bullshit ones like UN fucking carboncredits where CO2 is now some pollutant butpaying Gore will fix the problem."
Our government has come up with a climate planthat experts as well as industry says isn'tambitious enough to solve the problem. Theglaciers of Greenland are melting at increasingrates. The permafrost of Siberia is melting toocausing huge releases of methane gas which is amuch worse greenhouse gas than CO2. The CO2 levelis at an extreme height. The melting of the ice ofGreenland will cause big trouble for many highlypopulated areas along coastlines. This may causemillions of refugees from big cities when becominguninhabitable. Therefore it is much cheaper to dosomething about the problem now than waiting adecade to solve it. This will make lots of jobs increating solutions instead of having to evacuatebig cities and coastlines. My small country isgreat in the world of producing wind turbines andenergy efficient technology. We really need suchnon fossil energy alternatives if we want to stilllive above sea level. Evacuating a country and itshigh infrastructure will be quite expensive.Besides where should all the people go when lotsof area will be affected in other countries too?To make the wind power industry was expensive forthe tax payers but now it is a big export articlemaking the investment pay back as well as havingfree energy and cleaner air.

The idea with the CO2 tax is to force people awayfrom increasing the already huge fossil energyproblem as well as paying for solutions. Investingthe money in cleaner technology in the mostpolluting countries gives the best climatepayback. Of course taxes aren't good in corruptplaces. Thus first get rid of corruption whichrequires open systems.

Countries like India China Russia and USA havegreat potential to reduce CO2 emissions.

Regards
Ole



---In [email protected],<mkjekyll@...>wrote :


Kone,

I agree with your assessment and don'tbelieve anyone should own resources outsidetheir own country, perhaps a limited lease inexchange for building the infrastructure. There is greed and lack of ethics in allsystems socialist or capitalist.


Crony capitalism is evil.  War economies areevil, unchecked profit without ethics is evil.Lack of competition due to monopoly is evil. Asystem where one is able to live free andbuild competitive business in an ethical wayis the ultimate for human ascendance. Unfortunately the US has been taken over bygreedy people without ethics.  The governmentin Venezuela is fucked, this is why we have somany people migrating to Colombia starving andlooking for work.  I speak to these peopleevery day, no bullshit.  It is not the USfault what happened it is the fault of greedypig socialist same as greedy pig capitalist.

Venezuela was a paradise and then thedictator forced out all the oil companyengineers and other Venezuelan businessprofessionals who knew what they were doing inorder to give high paying jobs to militarypoliticos who did not know shit but couldprotect his ass.  All the profitablebusinesses were socialized in these ways. From what the Venezuelan doctor told me theroots of all of the downfall was promulgatedthe most by Cuban social engineering much moreso than US spook shit, though that was dirtypool no doubt.  Poor people who do not fightto better themselves or are limited for otherreasons will always vote for the most freeshit but someone has to pay for it, sooner orlater all the good businesses leave and theirare no jobs. Free markets rather than sociallyoverseen bullshit ones like UN fucking carboncredits where CO2 is now some pollutant butpaying Gore will fix the problem.  Totalsocialist top down control based businessmodel.  The places I go where one can livewell and has the best access to goods andservices are free market verticallyintegrated, all the socialist top downcontrolled have much less options to a personwilling to perform learn and grow. Unfortunately some people elicit a failure tothrive, in nature same thing happens withanimals, existence takes fucking hard work.

Doesn't matter the system human frailty is thesad part. Ideally we should have no governmentand be self governing but sapiens are notgrounded and ethical enough yet and likelynever will be as long as they are taughtUNESCO all suffering is due to someone elseand they are simply victims of circumstance. The truth about Venezuela is assholes tookover and destroyed a healthy economy.  Therewere CIA shenanigans for sure but this is notthe reason for the place sucking now.  AlsoEcuador is changing to this shitty systemwhere the socialist government thinks they canfix everything by taxing business's.  No onewe spoke with who owned a pizza place or amarket etc were using bank accounts anymorebecause their money kept being appropriatedfor public works with higher taxes every fewmonths.  It is in a sad state now full ofcrime and hateful victim mentality.  Barelyany selection at markets many shelves are notstocked.  Businesses are being forced offshoreor closing so there is the truth witnessedfirsthand.  Being that I live in South AmericaI have the opportunity to assess these issuesfirst hand.

On12/10/2018 4:15 PM, konehead@...[EVGRAY] wrote:


  
Pure bullshit propaganda "socialist"government being cause of big problemsin venezuala. The fucking capitalistwar monger pigs in wadhington dc arethe problem, blockading, sanctioning.Starvng, sending in.metcenarie ( paidterrorists) from Columbia and whoeverwants to make a CIA buck killinginnocent plus Supposed humanitarianNGOs paying protestrs to start riotsand all the other shit capitalistprofit first evil pigs from hell willdo.
Its all standard procedure for CIA andState department anytime a "socialist"government .voted into office tells UScapitalist orporations to get the fuckout of their country and will neverallow US military base on their soil.
Imagine the gal l to kick out UScorporations who say they "own" landand industry in a country and give theland and industry to the citizens ofthe country!! Fuck that is reason toinvade kill thousands of socialistpeasants who would be better off deadthan communist sympathizers eh...

Mick,
Advice on raw plant food is easy to find on the net. There are many so-called weeds, which are very nutritious and these grow rapidly and are in abundance everywhere; people don't give them a second glance.  So in hard times we can eat them.  The human body does not require a lot to eat, we don't need three square meals a day.  Just eat when we are hungry is the best way.
Things are going to get so chaotic that many people will wish they were dead but those who know what is really happening will stand firm and keep living if not murdered by someone.  Getting out of the city is a good thing to do, and also learning how to live off the land beforehand by studying what advice is on the net. Simplicity is important, just live a simple life during all this upheaval and be prepared to lose all possessions because the the government will claim all things belong to it.  We will own nothing.
Many places will come under Martial law and the defense forces will all wear blue hats and be under the control of the UN and God is going to make them destroy all false religion from the face of the earth.  He is going to  put His one thought into the hearts and minds of the political rulers to carry out their one thought in destroying religion. This will be the start of the War of Armageddon and when all trace of false religion is gone the politicians will feel very smug believing that now they have the whole world under their control without the help of the clergy.
Then God carries out the rest of His war and completely destroys the political system and locks Satan away from mankind for 1,000 years.  God will bring to ruin those ruining the earth.

He will then teach us how to manage the earth and restore it to paradise conditions where mankind will live forever on earth. Psalm 37:29 The righteous themselves will possess the earth and they will reside forever upon it.
The quest for free energy becomes of little importance in the light of what dangers are fast approaching us.
George

    On Friday, 14 December 2018, 10:44:57 am AEDT, Mick [email protected] [EVGRAY] <[email protected]> wrote:  
 
     
 

George,
 
What I can comment on from firsthand knowledge is that in Oregon the privately held forest land is much better managed.  They learned a long time ago if they don't replant properly the land becomes worthless.   It is mostly the BLM (public?) forestry land which is the most mismanaged as they just take money from the highest bidder and then rip out the trees to chip for the Chinese market.  Oregonians who live and work in the forest knew about the spotted owl scam by Gore and company.  They are a fairly common animal.  Outsiders were brought in in the 70's to begin the process and act like native Oregonians, they used fake names and were very paranoid and undercover.  Many paid protestors suddenly appeared no one knew them from the neighborhoods.  When they were successful in the government manipulation they left the state to the next "project". Now BLM are going into the forest with rifles and killing other Owls claiming they are a threat to the spotted owl.  It is very sick and arrogant behavior by people just blindly following orders.  This is another example of how feel good legislation can change humans into monsters.  They also kill swaths of tress by injecting roundup into the phloem and cambium.  They do not pay attention to earth mother or listen to the soul of the forest.
 Anyone one whom does not respect earth mother is a fucking parasite.  When sitting in on BLM meetings it is so transparent the manipulation.  They send in professional facilitators who pretend to work for BLM and steer the people attending to reaching a predetermined outcome.  They are very slick and make it seem as though the people have come up with this plan for action on their own.  The latest is called the Wild lands Project and all the musicians, artists and hippy types are blindly being led to justify projects to destroy infrastructure so humans will be unable to live in these rural places. Warren Buffet is behind some of this too.
 
 
If biblical or not they are following the Revelations like a movie script.  Anyhow, yes you are entirely correct, this is the game plan some have known about for many years when it was explained by some few good elites.  It is very sad Sapiens are selling out their own children's future for money and power.  Many will starve from this Chaos.  Some of the Elites are against this and they are now forced to sit on the sidelines or be financially ruined for even questioning. Some will help during the chaos like the underground railroad and it will be very anonymous. Each year in the US there is a meeting of all the families who are worth one billion or more, it is nothing that has been leaked on the internet as security is so intense.  There will be an economic or transport catastrophe and personal chips will be the resolution.
 
It would be helpful if you could post recommendations of ideas in which folks can prepare and save food long term for the raw and vegan type diet you support.
 
I was told one must remain flexible without bending, Flexibility without bending!
 

 
 On 12/13/2018 5:32 PM, george gray [email protected] [EVGRAY] wrote:
  
     Yes Mick, you are absolutely correct. We do have to manage or control the earth and tend to it.  But what I'm trying to get across is the fact that we are mismanaging the earth and the Elite are destroying it in their quest to have complete control of it and us.  If we don't control/manage it, then for sure we will have out of control wild fires and also more deserts.  My understanding is that within the next 10 years or less the Elite will have caused so much chaos in every country that the people will gladly accept "order out of chaos" by choosing the UN as the one world government.  I can see all this from the bible and have been watching it develop for over 60 years. 
  The governments are merely puppets controlled by the Elite, but the Elite are also puppets controlled by Satan the Devil who is misleading the entire inhabited earth.  God's war of Armageddon is between God and His angels and the Devil and his angels.  God is going to be successful and the Devil is to be cast down and away from mankind for 1,000 years.  During the 1,000 years we will bring the whole earth into a paradise so we will all have to learn how to control everything correctly  learning about the many cycles of life that exist on earth. 
  The time is short now and the chaos will quickly get much worse all over the earth, so keep your eyes open and just watch how things develop.  We cannot stop what has been allowed to be set in motion so we must learn how to bend like a reed so as not to break.  Don't try to swim upstream because the current will be too strong and if you put your head up out of the trenches you will get it blown off so to speak.  Go with the flow and see if you can live through what is coming. 
  George 
  
      On Thursday, 13 December 2018, 10:52:43 pm AEDT, Mick Jekyll [email protected] [EVGRAY] <[email protected]> wrote:  
  
          George, You forgot one thing, the green vs gold reflection back from the sun.  Where there are no trees the temperature rises with places that have the grains that go gold and brown after early spring.  A thick forest does need to be tended else it just becomes overgrown.and burns up.  Responsible logging and replanting kept the firebreaks and roads we used to use to fight fires in Oregon.  Sad to see trees felled but better a few then just burning up whole multiple sections of forests with all the wildlife burned to death too. These idiots are turning central california into a desert, all the tree farms with oranges and nuts have been  droughted out by the theft of water from the farmers.  It is going to be sand dunes soon.  The trappers killed all the beavers and ruined our natural aquifers, now the ecologists want to remove the  hydroelectric dams and finish it off with desertification.  The fish ladders are all in disrepair and the Salmon cant spawn.  This is because the globalist have a wildlands project to renove all people.  Idiots forgot about beavers.  
  On Wed, Dec 12, 2018, 9:34 PM george gray [email protected] [EVGRAY] <[email protected]> wrote:
  
        Good post Ole, 
  The cutting down of trees is one of the most disturbing things to  nature.  Tree felling, ground clearing, broad acre grain crop farming, and over  grazing of animals are the things that start deserts. 
  Trees bring rain and nature cycles the rain according to the trees and  the moisture therein. Deserts do not bring rain. 
  In a forest the ground is protected from the sun by the foliage and the litter  on the ground and when it rains the water is fully absorbed into the soil. 
  When the land is exposed to the sun and baked it cannot absorb water when it  rains and so the road to deserts continues and gets worse with time. Ploughing the ground does great harm in exposing it to the sun.
  
  The correct diet for humans is raw fruits, raw vegetables and water.  Humans are not designed to eat grains or grain  products, which are acid forming in the body and cause the ONE disease with  400 symptoms. 
  Cooked food is a slow poison so we don't need to eat animals or other things  which require cooking. 
  By planting billions of fruit trees the earth will be protected from the sun  and the deserts can slowly be recovered. 
  For the first 1,656 years up to the flood of Noah people are raw food and  lived for well over 900 years. 
  If you study Viktor Schaubeger's writings he was always trying to be in  harmony with nature and he understood the cycles of forests and water. 
  There is no other creature on earth that first destroys its food by  cooking; humans are the only creatures out of step with nature and also no other adult creature on earth drinks milk. 
  People have been led in all directions away from nature and what is good for  us and they are addicted to the unnatural ways of life. 
  However Agenda 2030 with the UN in control of the earth for a little while is  not far off, and that makes God's war of Armageddon a close reality now, so we can all learn how to live healthy lives in the not too  distant future. 
  George
  
      On Thursday, 13 December 2018, 10:45:07 am AEDT, [email protected] [EVGRAY] <[email protected]> wrote:  
  
          
Viktor Schauberger studied nature  and was convinced that explosive  energy sources violated  nature. Schaubergers home power  plant and levitating technology used implosion. He  warned that nature would be destroyed  the air would be  unbreathable and the water dead if  continuing with using more and more explosion energy. The  explosive principle decomposes  matter while the implosion  principle builds up matter. I  don't know if he has been proven wrong or right but as a human I  would rather breath oxygen than CO2. If I was a tree I would probably  prefer CO2 instead. The problem is that the balance of the  atmosphere is changing faster than  the evolution of humans..  Thus will we be able to live at this  planet that is changing  faster than ever? The weaker species  are already dispreading at alarming rates. Will we be the next  one?
 
 Schauberger and many  others have shown alternatives  to explosion energy. If  nobody can guarantee that it isn't  necessary for coming generations to be able to live here we  really shouldn't work against  nature. Nature probably will  win no mater what we do. The problem is  is it with us or without us  in the equation. It is said that  thousands die because of breathing polluted air in the cities.  Some cities have achieved much cleaner air making it easier to have  long lives in them. Because lots of people make their living using  destructive technology doesn't mean  they will survive in the  long run when destroying the planet they  live on.
 
 Even the more and more  destructive weather is said to be  natures way of trying to  re-balance itself. The more we  disturb nature the more nature tries to balance itself even if  this means destroying humankind.
 
 Instead of eating cows  just eat less cow which makes a  difference in the number of  cows. As the Chinese are getting richer  they also eat more meat. So  should they increase their level to the  level of the most cow eating nations or should the most cow  eating nations decline in the amount of cows to solve the problem? I  don't see increasing the level helps solve the problem even  for the people that wants to survive.
 
 Regards
 Ole
 
 
 
 ---In [email protected], <nwootan@...> wrote :
 
  
Study NATURE.   Simple fact is that the  volcanoes around the planet place  more green house gases  into stratosphere than has  mankind since we have been on earth.  Simple fact. Read just one  example. https://pubs.usgs.gov/fs/1997/fs113-97/
 
 Now consider a much worse  green house gas (25X worse than CO2) ,  Methane, which is released  from the frozen methane hydrate off  the Continental shelf and the Arctic tundra.  See   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methane_clathrate
 
And the idiots want to legislate COW  FARTS.    YES, Mars has a CO2 atmosphere  due to all the SUVs running around up there.
 
 On 12/11/2018 7:42 PM, Mick  mkjekyll@... [EVGRAY] wrote:
  
 
    
Ole,
 
Go check the math the man made CO2  causing a problem is a farce.
 
CO2 which only emits at three hi Q  nodes 10 point something microns 5 and one more is being  calculated as a full bandwidth  black body radiator, secondly there is no distinction  between night and daytime in the calcs.
 Infra red is 1mm to 700  nanometers far wider than the 3  infra red nodes of excited CO2.  It takes a good amount of  energy to excite co2 to release any  energy.  Pretty much all the heat  re-radiated by Co2 will take place within  10 meters of the  ground. About the height of most trees.
 
 
  Any child knows a cloud passing  overhead cools, only at night can  water vapor the largest  greenhouse gas trap and reflect  energy. CO2 weighs more  than nitrogen, it stays where plants  like to turn it back to oxygen.  In fact there is a  lake in Africa that is volcanic and  burps CO2.  When this happens it  travels into the valleys and  suffocates all the local  villages humans and animals,  because it is too heavy to rise and  displaces the oxygen  and nitrogen.   
 The ice core samples were  flipped the wrong way initially  it was reported that  CO2 increase then temp increase.  Actually C02 increase was  lagging the global heating by  600 or so years in the  ice samples, did any revisions take  place in the science, not at all, none I could find anyways.
 
 
Man made Co2 levels may be 3 percent  of total, fluctuations from fires and volcanoes can often vary 20  percent from the normal natural levels that are a hell of  a lot higher than the 3 percent of  human use.
 
When one is a professor one only is  awarded grants based on what the  think tanks dictate, this  is why no alternative energy as we  are familiar with here is  ever funded.  Yes I think all of us at this  site want petroleum energy to go  the way of the dinosaurs, but  CO2 isn't the problem.   Carbon monoxide,  sulfur dioxide, and many  others are actually a poison not a symbiotic biological as  is Co2
 
 
Now for the reality, when all the  outlook is bad and fearful the  sky is falling,  nothing like Hey we can now grow crops at  further northern latitudes!, or we are using less energy  heating our homes.  No instead it's all gloom  and doom and fear based and the seas are  rising etc etc.  When one sees a binary  conscientious one should expect to  be bent over without lube.
 
 
So Al Gore and James blood create a  futures exchange to trade carbon  credit so one need only pay  them to pollute more, hey  problem solved just sign on  the dotted line.  Most of the industry has  been moved to China and India,  they are exempted from  the carbon emission limitations.  Sound like a scam yet.  
 We are about to hit a  bifurcation point when the weather  goes the other way and not  slowly, quickly like turning a  thermostat.  All the global warming  distopian fear will be replaced by  wishing it will heat up  instead.  Sapiens are really an  arrogant lot, pretending they can  determine a problem of  this magnitude with a temporal  limited data set built on a  pathetic excuse for the  scientific process in which  empirical thought has been  completely disregarded  because the top of the pyramid has a  plan for us all.  Have a view at odds to  conscientious and one is labeled a  heretic or a denier.  Sounds like the Spanish  inquisition.  Throw another Bruno on the  fire, we need some heat...
 
 
Now lets talk about real problems,  bunker oil running the super cargo ships.  About 18 of these ships produce  enough pollution in our oceans as  all the cars combined on  the planet, there are hundreds  of these, maybe thousands shitting up the ocean with  fuels so thick one can walk on  it until it is preheated to  burn in the engines.  Fracking causing the  poisoning of our water tables across  the planet but the  EPA will not lift a hand because the  fracking chemicals are a secret protected intellectual  property so they allegedly can't know if  they are damaging. The  contrails from the new turbine bypass  engines which burn much  cooler hence stay suspended much  longer are changing the planets temperature bigtime.  It was measured when during  911 no planes were flying.
 
I like CO2 and believe it to be a  cooling gas based on my work with  flowing gas CO2 lasers.  It makes plants grow  and replaces out gassed and burned oxygen  from our atmosphere so  we can live, no CO2 no oxygen.  None of the claims from  Gores silly movie have happened yet  as the sea was supposed  to rise many feet by now. A few MM over  the last hundred years it has actually been measured to  rise. The polar bears are all  drowned, even though they  can swim hundreds of miles in a go.
 
I am glad your country produces clean  energy, this is something we  should all aspire to but  I will pray to keep my CO2 and  revel in natures power as each season of change the CO2 is  released and then re-absorbed  and transmuted into  breathable oxygen.
 
 

 
 On 12/11/2018 7:48 AM, onielsen@... [EVGRAY] wrote:
  
      
Hi Mick,
 
 "Free markets rather than socially  overseen bullshit ones like UN  fucking carbon credits where  CO2 is now some pollutant but  paying Gore will fix the  problem."
 Our government has come up  with a climate plan that experts  as well as industry says  isn't ambitious enough to  solve the problem. The glaciers of Greenland are melting at  increasing rates. The permafrost of  Siberia is melting too  causing huge releases of methane gas  which is a much worse greenhouse gas than CO2. The CO2 level  is at an extreme height. The  melting of the ice of  Greenland will cause big trouble for  many highly populated  areas along coastlines. This may cause  millions of refugees from big cities when becoming uninhabitable.  Therefore it is much cheaper to do something about the  problem now than waiting a decade to  solve it. This will make lots  of jobs in creating solutions  instead of having to evacuate big cities and coastlines. My  small country is great in the  world of producing wind  turbines and energy efficient  technology. We really need such non fossil energy  alternatives if we want to still  live above sea level. Evacuating a country and its  high infrastructure will be quite  expensive. Besides where  should all the people go when lots  of area will be affected in  other countries too? To make the  wind power industry was expensive for the tax payers but now it is  a big export article making the  investment pay back as well  as having free energy and cleaner  air.
 
 The idea with the CO2 tax is  to force people away from  increasing the already huge  fossil energy problem as well as paying  for solutions. Investing  the money in cleaner technology in  the most polluting countries  gives the best climate  payback. Of course taxes aren't good in  corrupt places. Thus  first get rid of corruption which  requires open systems.
 
 Countries like India China  Russia and USA have great  potential to reduce CO2  emissions.
 
 Regards
 Ole
 
 
 
 ---In [email protected], <mkjekyll@...> wrote :
 
  
Kone,
 
I agree with your assessment and  don't believe anyone should own  resources outside  their own country, perhaps a  limited lease in exchange for  building the infrastructure.  There is greed and lack of  ethics in all systems socialist or  capitalist.
 
 
Crony capitalism is evil.  War economies are evil,  unchecked profit without ethics is  evil. Lack of competition due to monopoly is  evil. A system where one is able to  live free and build  competitive business in an ethical way  is the ultimate for human ascendance.  Unfortunately the US has  been taken over by greedy people  without ethics.  The government in Venezuela  is fucked, this is why we have so  many people migrating to  Colombia starving and looking for  work.  I speak to these people  every day, no bullshit.  It is not the US fault what  happened it is the fault of greedy  pig socialist same as greedy  pig capitalist.
 
Venezuela was a paradise and then the  dictator forced out all the oil company engineers and  other Venezuelan business  professionals who knew what they were doing in order to give  high paying jobs to military  politicos who did not know  shit but could protect his ass.  All the profitable businesses  were socialized in these ways.  From what the Venezuelan  doctor told me the roots of all  of the downfall was  promulgated the most by Cuban social  engineering much more so than US spook shit, though that  was dirty pool no doubt.  Poor people who do not fight  to better themselves or are limited  for other reasons will  always vote for the most free  shit but someone has to pay for it, sooner or later all the  good businesses leave and  their are no jobs.  Free markets rather than socially  overseen bullshit ones like UN  fucking carbon credits where  CO2 is now some pollutant but  paying Gore will fix the  problem.  Total socialist top  down control based business model.  The places I go where one can  live well and has the best  access to goods and  services are free market vertically  integrated, all the socialist top down controlled  have much less options to a person  willing to perform learn  and grow.  Unfortunately some people  elicit a failure to thrive, in  nature same thing happens  with animals, existence  takes fucking hard work.
 
 Doesn't matter the system  human frailty is the sad part.  Ideally we should have no  government and be self governing but  sapiens are not grounded and ethical enough yet and likely  never will be as long as they are  taught UNESCO all  suffering is due to someone else  and they are simply victims  of circumstance.  The truth about  Venezuela is assholes took over and  destroyed a healthy economy.  There were CIA  shenanigans for sure but this is not  the reason for the place  sucking now.  Also Ecuador is  changing to this shitty system  where the socialist government thinks they can  fix everything by taxing business's.  No one we spoke with  who owned a pizza place or a  market etc were using bank accounts anymore because their  money kept being appropriated  for public works with  higher taxes every few months.  It is in a sad state now full of  crime and hateful victim mentality.  Barely any selection  at markets many shelves are not  stocked.  Businesses are being forced  offshore or closing so there is the  truth witnessed  firsthand.  Being that I live in South  America I have the opportunity to  assess these issues  first hand.
 
 On 12/10/2018 4:15 PM, konehead@... [EVGRAY] wrote:
  
 
    
Pure bullshit propaganda  "socialist" government being cause of  big problems in venezuala.  The fucking capitalist war monger  pigs in wadhington dc are the problem, blockading,  sanctioning. Starvng, sending  in.metcenarie ( paid  terrorists) from Columbia and whoever  wants to make a CIA buck killing innocent plus Supposed  humanitarian NGOs paying protestrs to  start riots and all the  other shit capitalist profit first  evil pigs from hell will  do.
 Its all standard  procedure for CIA and State  department anytime a "socialist" government .voted into  office tells US capitalist  orporations to get the fuck  out of their country and will never  allow US military base on their soil.
 Imagine the gal l to kick  out US corporations who say they  "own" land and industry  in a country and give the land and  industry to the citizens of the country!! Fuck that is  reason to invade kill thousands of  socialist peasants who  would be better off dead  than communist sympathizers eh...

I wonder why the sun is given such minimal accord in these atmospheric
"science" "studies".  Hardly ever a mention of any dynamical systems as
if the Sun is a perfect constant energy source.

Must be why there is no life on Mars as the SUV's belched out too much
greenhouse gas destabilizing the planet and killing all the humans. 
Interesting most of the Mars surveyor have an almost uncanny resemblance
to Devon island.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/weird/734345/NASA-Mars-Curiosity-Rover-on-Earth-Devon-Island

NAZI's were the ultimate in propaganda and we put them in charge of our
space program and intelligence agencies so one should consider the source...


On 12/12/2018 10:30 AM, Norman Wootan [email protected] [EVGRAY] wrote:
>  
>
> Study NATURE.   Simple fact is that the volcanoes around the planet
> place more green house gases into stratosphere than has mankind since
> we have been on earth.  Simple fact. Read just one example.
> https://pubs.usgs.gov/fs/1997/fs113-97/
>
>  Now consider a much worse green house gas (25X worse than CO2) ,
> Methane, which is released from the frozen methane hydrate off the
> Continental shelf and the Arctic tundra.  See  
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methane_clathrate
>
> And the idiots want to legislate COW FARTS.    YES, Mars has a CO2
> atmosphere due to all the SUVs running around up there.
>
> On 12/11/2018 7:42 PM, Mick [email protected] [EVGRAY] wrote:
>>  
>>
>> Ole,
>>
>> Go check the math the man made CO2 causing a problem is a farce.
>>
>> CO2 which only emits at three hi Q nodes 10 point something microns 5
>> and one more is being calculated as a full bandwidth black body
>> radiator, secondly there is no distinction between night and daytime
>> in the calcs.
>> Infra red is 1mm to 700 nanometers far wider than the 3 infra red
>> nodes of excited CO2.  It takes a good amount of energy to excite co2
>> to release any energy.  Pretty much all the heat re-radiated by Co2
>> will take place within 10 meters of the ground. About the height of
>> most trees.
>>
>>   Any child knows a cloud passing overhead cools, only at night can
>> water vapor the largest greenhouse gas trap and reflect energy. CO2
>> weighs more than nitrogen, it stays where plants like to turn it back
>> to oxygen.  In fact there is a lake in Africa that is volcanic and
>> burps CO2.  When this happens it travels into the valleys and
>> suffocates all the local villages humans and animals, because it is
>> too heavy to rise and displaces the oxygen and nitrogen.  
>> The ice core samples were flipped the wrong way initially it was
>> reported that CO2 increase then temp increase.  Actually C02 increase
>> was lagging the global heating by 600 or so years in the ice samples,
>> did any revisions take place in the science, not at all, none I could
>> find anyways.
>>
>> Man made Co2 levels may be 3 percent of total, fluctuations from
>> fires and volcanoes can often vary 20 percent from the normal natural
>> levels that are a hell of a lot higher than the 3 percent of human use.
>>
>> When one is a professor one only is awarded grants based on what the
>> think tanks dictate, this is why no alternative energy as we are
>> familiar with here is ever funded.  Yes I think all of us at this
>> site want petroleum energy to go the way of the dinosaurs, but CO2
>> isn't the problem.   Carbon monoxide, sulfur dioxide, and many others
>> are actually a poison not a symbiotic biological as is Co2
>>
>> Now for the reality, when all the outlook is bad and fearful the sky
>> is falling, nothing like Hey we can now grow crops at further
>> northern latitudes!, or we are using less energy heating our homes. 
>> No instead it's all gloom and doom and fear based and the seas are
>> rising etc etc.  When one sees a binary conscientious one should
>> expect to be bent over without lube.
>>
>> So Al Gore and James blood create a futures exchange to trade carbon
>> credit so one need only pay them to pollute more, hey problem solved
>> just sign on the dotted line.  Most of the industry has been moved to
>> China and India, they are exempted from the carbon emission
>> limitations.  Sound like a scam yet. 
>> We are about to hit a bifurcation point when the weather goes the
>> other way and not slowly, quickly like turning a thermostat.  All the
>> global warming distopian fear will be replaced by wishing it will
>> heat up instead.  Sapiens are really an arrogant lot, pretending they
>> can determine a problem of this magnitude with a temporal limited
>> data set built on a pathetic excuse for the scientific process in
>> which empirical thought has been completely disregarded because the
>> top of the pyramid has a plan for us all.  Have a view at odds to
>> conscientious and one is labeled a heretic or a denier.  Sounds like
>> the Spanish inquisition.  Throw another Bruno on the fire, we need
>> some heat...
>>
>> Now lets talk about real problems, bunker oil running the super cargo
>> ships.  About 18 of these ships produce enough pollution in our
>> oceans as all the cars combined on the planet, there are hundreds of
>> these, maybe thousands shitting up the ocean with fuels so thick one
>> can walk on it until it is preheated to burn in the engines. 
>> Fracking causing the poisoning of our water tables across the planet
>> but the EPA will not lift a hand because the fracking chemicals are a
>> secret protected intellectual property so they allegedly can't know
>> if they are damaging. The contrails from the new turbine bypass
>> engines which burn much cooler hence stay suspended much longer are
>> changing the planets temperature bigtime.  It was measured when
>> during 911 no planes were flying.
>>
>> I like CO2 and believe it to be a cooling gas based on my work with
>> flowing gas CO2 lasers.  It makes plants grow and replaces out gassed
>> and burned oxygen from our atmosphere so we can live, no CO2 no
>> oxygen.  None of the claims from Gores silly movie have happened yet
>> as the sea was supposed to rise many feet by now. A few MM over the
>> last hundred years it has actually been measured to rise. The polar
>> bears are all drowned, even though they can swim hundreds of miles in
>> a go.
>>
>> I am glad your country produces clean energy, this is something we
>> should all aspire to but I will pray to keep my CO2 and revel in
>> natures power as each season of change the CO2 is released and then
>> re-absorbed and transmuted into breathable oxygen.
>>
>>
>> On 12/11/2018 7:48 AM, [email protected] [EVGRAY] wrote:
>>>  
>>>
>>> Hi Mick,
>>>
>>> "Free markets rather than socially overseen bullshit ones like UN
>>> fucking carbon credits where CO2 is now some pollutant but paying
>>> Gore will fix the problem."
>>> Our government has come up with a climate plan that experts as well
>>> as industry says isn't ambitious enough to solve the problem. The
>>> glaciers of Greenland are melting at increasing rates. The
>>> permafrost of Siberia is melting too causing huge releases of
>>> methane gas which is a much worse greenhouse gas than CO2. The CO2
>>> level is at an extreme height. The melting of the ice of Greenland
>>> will cause big trouble for many highly populated areas along
>>> coastlines. This may cause millions of refugees from big cities when
>>> becoming uninhabitable. Therefore it is much cheaper to do something
>>> about the problem now than waiting a decade to solve it. This will
>>> make lots of jobs in creating solutions instead of having to
>>> evacuate big cities and coastlines. My small country is great in the
>>> world of producing wind turbines and energy efficient technology. We
>>> really need such non fossil energy alternatives if we want to still
>>> live above sea level. Evacuating a country and its high
>>> infrastructure will be quite expensive. Besides where should all the
>>> people go when lots of area will be affected in other countries too?
>>> To make the wind power industry was expensive for the tax payers but
>>> now it is a big export article making the investment pay back as
>>> well as having free energy and cleaner air.
>>>
>>> The idea with the CO2 tax is to force people away from increasing
>>> the already huge fossil energy problem as well as paying for
>>> solutions. Investing the money in cleaner technology in the most
>>> polluting countries gives the best climate payback. Of course taxes
>>> aren't good in corrupt places. Thus first get rid of corruption
>>> which requires open systems.
>>>
>>> Countries like India China Russia and USA have great potential to
>>> reduce CO2 emissions.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> Ole
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ---In [email protected], <mkjekyll@...> wrote :
>>>
>>> Kone,
>>>
>>> I agree with your assessment and don't believe anyone should own
>>> resources outside their own country, perhaps a limited lease in
>>> exchange for building the infrastructure.  There is greed and lack
>>> of ethics in all systems socialist or capitalist.
>>>
>>> Crony capitalism is evil.  War economies are evil, unchecked profit
>>> without ethics is evil. Lack of competition due to monopoly is evil.
>>> A system where one is able to live free and build competitive
>>> business in an ethical way is the ultimate for human ascendance. 
>>> Unfortunately the US has been taken over by greedy people without
>>> ethics.  The government in Venezuela is fucked, this is why we have
>>> so many people migrating to Colombia starving and looking for work. 
>>> I speak to these people every day, no bullshit.  It is not the US
>>> fault what happened it is the fault of greedy pig socialist same as
>>> greedy pig capitalist.
>>>
>>> Venezuela was a paradise and then the dictator forced out all the
>>> oil company engineers and other Venezuelan business professionals
>>> who knew what they were doing in order to give high paying jobs to
>>> military politicos who did not know shit but could protect his ass. 
>>> All the profitable businesses were socialized in these ways.  From
>>> what the Venezuelan doctor told me the roots of all of the downfall
>>> was promulgated the most by Cuban social engineering much more so
>>> than US spook shit, though that was dirty pool no doubt.  Poor
>>> people who do not fight to better themselves or are limited for
>>> other reasons will always vote for the most free shit but someone
>>> has to pay for it, sooner or later all the good businesses leave and
>>> their are no jobs. Free markets rather than socially overseen
>>> bullshit ones like UN fucking carbon credits where CO2 is now some
>>> pollutant but paying Gore will fix the problem.  Total socialist top
>>> down control based business model.  The places I go where one can
>>> live well and has the best access to goods and services are free
>>> market vertically integrated, all the socialist top down controlled
>>> have much less options to a person willing to perform learn and
>>> grow.  Unfortunately some people elicit a failure to thrive, in
>>> nature same thing happens with animals, existence takes fucking hard
>>> work.
>>>
>>> Doesn't matter the system human frailty is the sad part. Ideally we
>>> should have no government and be self governing but sapiens are not
>>> grounded and ethical enough yet and likely never will be as long as
>>> they are taught UNESCO all suffering is due to someone else and they
>>> are simply victims of circumstance.  The truth about Venezuela is
>>> assholes took over and destroyed a healthy economy.  There were CIA
>>> shenanigans for sure but this is not the reason for the place
>>> sucking now.  Also Ecuador is changing to this shitty system where
>>> the socialist government thinks they can fix everything by taxing
>>> business's.  No one we spoke with who owned a pizza place or a
>>> market etc were using bank accounts anymore because their money kept
>>> being appropriated for public works with higher taxes every few
>>> months.  It is in a sad state now full of crime and hateful victim
>>> mentality.  Barely any selection at markets many shelves are not
>>> stocked.  Businesses are being forced offshore or closing so there
>>> is the truth witnessed firsthand.  Being that I live in South
>>> America I have the opportunity to assess these issues first hand.
>>>
>>> On 12/10/2018 4:15 PM, konehead@... <mailto:konehead@...> [EVGRAY]
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>      
>>>>
>>>>     Pure bullshit propaganda "socialist" government being cause of
>>>>     big problems in venezuala. The fucking capitalist war monger
>>>>     pigs in wadhington dc are the problem, blockading, sanctioning.
>>>>     Starvng, sending in.metcenarie ( paid terrorists) from Columbia
>>>>     and whoever wants to make a CIA buck killing innocent plus
>>>>     Supposed humanitarian NGOs paying protestrs to start riots and
>>>>     all the other shit capitalist profit first evil pigs from hell
>>>>     will do.
>>>>     Its all standard procedure for CIA and State department anytime
>>>>     a "socialist" government .voted into office tells US capitalist
>>>>     orporations to get the fuck out of their country and will never
>>>>     allow US military base on their soil.
>>>>     Imagine the gal l to kick out US corporations who say they
>>>>     "own" land and industry in a country and give the land and
>>>>     industry to the citizens of the country!! Fuck that is reason
>>>>     to invade kill thousands of socialist peasants who would be
>>>>     better off dead than communist sympathizers eh...
>>>>
>

George,

In light of your expectations one could argue that free energy is most
important, well unless people want to live in the dark and only keep
warm and cook with fire.  And if one desires to run refigeration...

Have you run across any top notch books on wild edibles or prefer the
web?  A good picture book would be nice in case of something like an
Carrington event of man made EMP.

On 12/13/2018 7:22 PM, george gray [email protected] [EVGRAY] wrote:
>  
> Mick,
>
> Advice on raw plant food is easy to find on the net. There are many
> so-called weeds, which are very nutritious and these grow rapidly and
> are in abundance everywhere; people don't give them a second glance. 
> So in hard times we can eat them.  The human body does not require a
> lot to eat, we don't need three square meals a day.  Just eat when we
> are hungry is the best way.
>
> Things are going to get so chaotic that many people will wish they
> were dead but those who know what is really happening will stand firm
> and keep living if not murdered by someone.  Getting out of the city
> is a good thing to do, and also learning how to live off the land
> beforehand by studying what advice is on the net. Simplicity is
> important, just live a simple life during all this upheaval and be
> prepared to lose all possessions because the the government will claim
> all things belong to it.  We will own nothing.
>
> Many places will come under Martial law and the defense forces will
> all wear blue hats and be under the control of the UN and God is going
> to make them destroy all false religion from the face of the earth. 
> He is going to  put His one thought into the hearts and minds of the
> political rulers to carry out their one thought in destroying
> religion. This will be the start of the War of Armageddon and when all
> trace of false religion is gone the politicians will feel very smug
> believing that now they have the whole world under their control
> without the help of the clergy.
>
> Then God carries out the rest of His war and completely destroys the
> political system and locks Satan away from mankind for 1,000 years. 
> God will bring to ruin those ruining the earth.
>
> He will then teach us how to manage the earth and restore it to
> paradise conditions where mankind will live forever on earth. Psalm
> 37:29 The righteous themselves will possess the earth and they will
> reside forever upon it.
>
> The quest for free energy becomes of little importance in the light of
> what dangers are fast approaching us.
>
> George
>
> On Friday, 14 December 2018, 10:44:57 am AEDT, Mick [email protected]
> [EVGRAY] <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>  
>
> George,
>
> What I can comment on from firsthand knowledge is that in Oregon the
> privately held forest land is much better managed.  They learned a
> long time ago if they don't replant properly the land becomes
> worthless.   It is mostly the BLM (public?) forestry land which is the
> most mismanaged as they just take money from the highest bidder and
> then rip out the trees to chip for the Chinese market.  Oregonians who
> live and work in the forest knew about the spotted owl scam by Gore
> and company.  They are a fairly common animal.  Outsiders were brought
> in in the 70's to begin the process and act like native Oregonians,
> they used fake names and were very paranoid and undercover.  Many paid
> protestors suddenly appeared no one knew them from the neighborhoods. 
> When they were successful in the government manipulation they left the
> state to the next "project". Now BLM are going into the forest with
> rifles and killing other Owls claiming they are a threat to the
> spotted owl.  It is very sick and arrogant behavior by people just
> blindly following orders.  This is another example of how feel good
> legislation can change humans into monsters.  They also kill swaths of
> tress by injecting roundup into the phloem and cambium.  They do not
> pay attention to earth mother or listen to the soul of the forest.
> Anyone one whom does not respect earth mother is a fucking parasite. 
> When sitting in on BLM meetings it is so transparent the
> manipulation.  They send in professional facilitators who pretend to
> work for BLM and steer the people attending to reaching a
> predetermined outcome.  They are very slick and make it seem as though
> the people have come up with this plan for action on their own.  The
> latest is called the Wild lands Project and all the musicians, artists
> and hippy types are blindly being led to justify projects to destroy
> infrastructure so humans will be unable to live in these rural places.
> Warren Buffet is behind some of this too.
>
> If biblical or not they are following the Revelations like a movie
> script.  Anyhow, yes you are entirely correct, this is the game plan
> some have known about for many years when it was explained by some few
> good elites.  It is very sad Sapiens are selling out their own
> children's future for money and power.  Many will starve from this
> Chaos.  Some of the Elites are against this and they are now forced to
> sit on the sidelines or be financially ruined for even questioning.
> Some will help during the chaos like the underground railroad and it
> will be very anonymous. Each year in the US there is a meeting of all
> the families who are worth one billion or more, it is nothing that has
> been leaked on the internet as security is so intense.  There will be
> an economic or transport catastrophe and personal chips will be the
> resolution.
>
> It would be helpful if you could post recommendations of ideas in
> which folks can prepare and save food long term for the raw and vegan
> type diet you support.
>
> I was told one must remain flexible without bending, Flexibility
> without bending!
>
>
> On 12/13/2018 5:32 PM, george gray [email protected]
> <mailto:[email protected]> [EVGRAY] wrote:
>>  
>> Yes Mick, you are absolutely correct. We do have to manage or control
>> the earth and tend to it.  But what I'm trying to get across is the
>> fact that we are mismanaging the earth and the Elite are destroying
>> it in their quest to have complete control of it and us.  If we don't
>> control/manage it, then for sure we will have out of control wild
>> fires and also more deserts.  My understanding is that within the
>> next 10 years or less the Elite will have caused so much chaos in
>> every country that the people will gladly accept "order out of chaos"
>> by choosing the UN as the one world government.  I can see all this
>> from the bible and have been watching it develop for over 60 years.
>>
>> The governments are merely puppets controlled by the Elite, but the
>> Elite are also puppets controlled by Satan the Devil who is
>> misleading the entire inhabited earth.  God's war of Armageddon is
>> between God and His angels and the Devil and his angels.  God is
>> going to be successful and the Devil is to be cast down and away from
>> mankind for 1,000 years.  During the 1,000 years we will bring the
>> whole earth into a paradise so we will all have to learn how to
>> control everything correctly learning about the many cycles of life
>> that exist on earth.
>>
>> The time is short now and the chaos will quickly get much worse all
>> over the earth, so keep your eyes open and just watch how things
>> develop.  We cannot stop what has been allowed to be set in motion so
>> we must learn how to bend like a reed so as not to break.  Don't try
>> to swim upstream because the current will be too strong and if you
>> put your head up out of the trenches you will get it blown off so to
>> speak.  Go with the flow and see if you can live through what is coming.
>>
>> George
>>
>>
>> On Thursday, 13 December 2018, 10:52:43 pm AEDT, Mick Jekyll
>> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> [EVGRAY]
>> <[email protected]> <mailto:[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>
>>  
>> George, You forgot one thing, the green vs gold reflection back from
>> the sun.  Where there are no trees the temperature rises with places
>> that have the grains that go gold and brown after early spring.  A
>> thick forest does need to be tended else it just becomes
>> overgrown.and burns up.  Responsible logging and replanting kept the
>> firebreaks and roads we used to use to fight fires in Oregon.  Sad to
>> see trees felled but better a few then just burning up whole multiple
>> sections of forests with all the wildlife burned to death too.
>> These idiots are turning central california into a desert, all the
>> tree farms with oranges and nuts have been droughted out by the theft
>> of water from the farmers.  It is going to be sand dunes soon.  The
>> trappers killed all the beavers and ruined our natural aquifers, now
>> the ecologists want to remove the hydroelectric dams and finish it
>> off with desertification.  The fish ladders are all in disrepair and
>> the Salmon cant spawn.  This is because the globalist have a
>> wildlands project to renove all people.  Idiots forgot about beavers.
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 12, 2018, 9:34 PM george gray [email protected]
>> <mailto:[email protected]> [EVGRAY] <[email protected]
>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
>>
>>      
>>     Good post Ole,
>>
>>     The cutting down of trees is one of the most disturbing things to
>>     nature.  Tree felling, ground clearing, broad acre grain crop
>>     farming, and over grazing of animals are the things that start
>>     deserts.
>>
>>     Trees bring rain and nature cycles the rain according to the
>>     trees and the moisture therein. Deserts do not bring rain.
>>
>>     In a forest the ground is protected from the sun by the foliage
>>     and the litter on the ground and when it rains the water is fully
>>     absorbed into the soil.
>>
>>     When the land is exposed to the sun and baked it cannot absorb
>>     water when it rains and so the road to deserts continues and gets
>>     worse with time. Ploughing the ground does great harm in exposing
>>     it to the sun.
>>
>>     The correct diet for humans is raw fruits, raw vegetables and
>>     water.  Humans are not designed to eat grains or grain products,
>>     which are acid forming in the body and cause the ONE disease with
>>     400 symptoms.
>>
>>     Cooked food is a slow poison so we don't need to eat animals or
>>     other things which require cooking.
>>
>>     By planting billions of fruit trees the earth will be protected
>>     from the sun and the deserts can slowly be recovered.
>>
>>     For the first 1,656 years up to the flood of Noah people are raw
>>     food and lived for well over 900 years.
>>
>>     If you study Viktor Schaubeger's writings he was always trying to
>>     be in harmony with nature and he understood the cycles of forests
>>     and water.
>>
>>     There is no other creature on earth that first destroys its food
>>     by cooking; humans are the only creatures out of step with nature
>>     and also no other adult creature on earth drinks milk.
>>
>>     People have been led in all directions away from nature and what
>>     is good for us and they are addicted to the unnatural ways of life.
>>
>>     However Agenda 2030 with the UN in control of the earth for a
>>     little while is not far off, and that makes God's war of
>>     Armageddon a close reality now, so we can all learn how to live
>>     healthy lives in the not too distant future.
>>
>>     George
>>
>>     On Thursday, 13 December 2018, 10:45:07 am AEDT,
>>     [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> [EVGRAY]
>>     <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>      
>>
>>     Viktor Schauberger studied nature and was convinced that
>>     explosive energy sources violated nature. Schaubergers home power
>>     plant and levitating technology used implosion. He warned that
>>     nature would be destroyed the air would be unbreathable and the
>>     water dead if continuing with using more and more explosion
>>     energy. The explosive principle decomposes matter while the
>>     implosion principle builds up matter. I don't know if he has been
>>     proven wrong or right but as a human I would rather breath oxygen
>>     than CO2. If I was a tree I would probably prefer CO2 instead.
>>     The problem is that the balance of the atmosphere is changing
>>     faster than the evolution of humans.. Thus will we be able to
>>     live at this planet that is changing faster than ever? The weaker
>>     species are already dispreading at alarming rates. Will we be the
>>     next one?
>>
>>     Schauberger and many others have shown alternatives to explosion
>>     energy. If nobody can guarantee that it isn't necessary for
>>     coming generations to be able to live here we really shouldn't
>>     work against nature. Nature probably will win no mater what we
>>     do. The problem is is it with us or without us in the equation.
>>     It is said that thousands die because of breathing polluted air
>>     in the cities. Some cities have achieved much cleaner air making
>>     it easier to have long lives in them. Because lots of people make
>>     their living using destructive technology doesn't mean they will
>>     survive in the long run when destroying the planet they live on.
>>
>>     Even the more and more destructive weather is said to be natures
>>     way of trying to re-balance itself. The more we disturb nature
>>     the more nature tries to balance itself even if this means
>>     destroying humankind.
>>
>>     Instead of eating cows just eat less cow which makes a difference
>>     in the number of cows. As the Chinese are getting richer they
>>     also eat more meat. So should they increase their level to the
>>     level of the most cow eating nations or should the most cow
>>     eating nations decline in the amount of cows to solve the
>>     problem? I don't see increasing the level helps solve the problem
>>     even for the people that wants to survive.
>>
>>     Regards
>>     Ole
>>
>>
>>
>>     ---In [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>,
>>     <nwootan@...> <mailto:nwootan@...> wrote :
>>
>>     Study NATURE.   Simple fact is that the volcanoes around the
>>     planet place more green house gases into stratosphere than has
>>     mankind since we have been on earth.  Simple fact. Read just one
>>     example. https://pubs.usgs.gov/fs/1997/fs113-97/
>>
>>      Now consider a much worse green house gas (25X worse than CO2) ,
>>     Methane, which is released from the frozen methane hydrate off
>>     the Continental shelf and the Arctic tundra.  See  
>>     https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methane_clathrate
>>
>>     And the idiots want to legislate COW FARTS.    YES, Mars has a
>>     CO2 atmosphere due to all the SUVs running around up there.
>>
>>     On 12/11/2018 7:42 PM, Mick mkjekyll@... <mailto:mkjekyll@...>
>>     [EVGRAY] wrote:
>>
>>>          
>>>
>>>         Ole,
>>>
>>>         Go check the math the man made CO2 causing a problem is a farce.
>>>
>>>         CO2 which only emits at three hi Q nodes 10 point something
>>>         microns 5 and one more is being calculated as a full
>>>         bandwidth black body radiator, secondly there is no
>>>         distinction between night and daytime in the calcs.
>>>         Infra red is 1mm to 700 nanometers far wider than the 3
>>>         infra red nodes of excited CO2.  It takes a good amount of
>>>         energy to excite co2 to release any energy.  Pretty much all
>>>         the heat re-radiated by Co2 will take place within 10 meters
>>>         of the ground. About the height of most trees.
>>>
>>>           Any child knows a cloud passing overhead cools, only at
>>>         night can water vapor the largest greenhouse gas trap and
>>>         reflect energy. CO2 weighs more than nitrogen, it stays
>>>         where plants like to turn it back to oxygen.  In fact there
>>>         is a lake in Africa that is volcanic and burps CO2.  When
>>>         this happens it travels into the valleys and suffocates all
>>>         the local villages humans and animals, because it is too
>>>         heavy to rise and displaces the oxygen and nitrogen.  
>>>         The ice core samples were flipped the wrong way initially it
>>>         was reported that CO2 increase then temp increase.  Actually
>>>         C02 increase was lagging the global heating by 600 or so
>>>         years in the ice samples, did any revisions take place in
>>>         the science, not at all, none I could find anyways.
>>>
>>>         Man made Co2 levels may be 3 percent of total, fluctuations
>>>         from fires and volcanoes can often vary 20 percent from the
>>>         normal natural levels that are a hell of a lot higher than
>>>         the 3 percent of human use.
>>>
>>>         When one is a professor one only is awarded grants based on
>>>         what the think tanks dictate, this is why no alternative
>>>         energy as we are familiar with here is ever funded.  Yes I
>>>         think all of us at this site want petroleum energy to go the
>>>         way of the dinosaurs, but CO2 isn't the problem.   Carbon
>>>         monoxide, sulfur dioxide, and many others are actually a
>>>         poison not a symbiotic biological as is Co2
>>>
>>>         Now for the reality, when all the outlook is bad and fearful
>>>         the sky is falling, nothing like Hey we can now grow crops
>>>         at further northern latitudes!, or we are using less energy
>>>         heating our homes.  No instead it's all gloom and doom and
>>>         fear based and the seas are rising etc etc.  When one sees a
>>>         binary conscientious one should expect to be bent over
>>>         without lube.
>>>
>>>         So Al Gore and James blood create a futures exchange to
>>>         trade carbon credit so one need only pay them to pollute
>>>         more, hey problem solved just sign on the dotted line.  Most
>>>         of the industry has been moved to China and India, they are
>>>         exempted from the carbon emission limitations.  Sound like a
>>>         scam yet. 
>>>         We are about to hit a bifurcation point when the weather
>>>         goes the other way and not slowly, quickly like turning a
>>>         thermostat.  All the global warming distopian fear will be
>>>         replaced by wishing it will heat up instead.  Sapiens are
>>>         really an arrogant lot, pretending they can determine a
>>>         problem of this magnitude with a temporal limited data set
>>>         built on a pathetic excuse for the scientific process in
>>>         which empirical thought has been completely disregarded
>>>         because the top of the pyramid has a plan for us all.  Have
>>>         a view at odds to conscientious and one is labeled a heretic
>>>         or a denier.  Sounds like the Spanish inquisition.  Throw
>>>         another Bruno on the fire, we need some heat...
>>>
>>>         Now lets talk about real problems, bunker oil running the
>>>         super cargo ships.  About 18 of these ships produce enough
>>>         pollution in our oceans as all the cars combined on the
>>>         planet, there are hundreds of these, maybe thousands
>>>         shitting up the ocean with fuels so thick one can walk on it
>>>         until it is preheated to burn in the engines.  Fracking
>>>         causing the poisoning of our water tables across the planet
>>>         but the EPA will not lift a hand because the fracking
>>>         chemicals are a secret protected intellectual property so
>>>         they allegedly can't know if they are damaging. The
>>>         contrails from the new turbine bypass engines which burn
>>>         much cooler hence stay suspended much longer are changing
>>>         the planets temperature bigtime.  It was measured when
>>>         during 911 no planes were flying.
>>>
>>>         I like CO2 and believe it to be a cooling gas based on my
>>>         work with flowing gas CO2 lasers.  It makes plants grow and
>>>         replaces out gassed and burned oxygen from our atmosphere so
>>>         we can live, no CO2 no oxygen.  None of the claims from
>>>         Gores silly movie have happened yet as the sea was supposed
>>>         to rise many feet by now. A few MM over the last hundred
>>>         years it has actually been measured to rise. The polar bears
>>>         are all drowned, even though they can swim hundreds of miles
>>>         in a go.
>>>
>>>         I am glad your country produces clean energy, this is
>>>         something we should all aspire to but I will pray to keep my
>>>         CO2 and revel in natures power as each season of change the
>>>         CO2 is released and then re-absorbed and transmuted into
>>>         breathable oxygen.
>>>
>>>
>>>         On 12/11/2018 7:48 AM, onielsen@... <mailto:onielsen@...>
>>>         [EVGRAY] wrote:
>>>>          
>>>>
>>>>         Hi Mick,
>>>>
>>>>         "Free markets rather than socially overseen bullshit ones
>>>>         like UN fucking carbon credits where CO2 is now some
>>>>         pollutant but paying Gore will fix the problem."
>>>>         Our government has come up with a climate plan that experts
>>>>         as well as industry says isn't ambitious enough to solve
>>>>         the problem. The glaciers of Greenland are melting at
>>>>         increasing rates. The permafrost of Siberia is melting too
>>>>         causing huge releases of methane gas which is a much worse
>>>>         greenhouse gas than CO2. The CO2 level is at an extreme
>>>>         height. The melting of the ice of Greenland will cause big
>>>>         trouble for many highly populated areas along coastlines.
>>>>         This may cause millions of refugees from big cities when
>>>>         becoming uninhabitable. Therefore it is much cheaper to do
>>>>         something about the problem now than waiting a decade to
>>>>         solve it. This will make lots of jobs in creating solutions
>>>>         instead of having to evacuate big cities and coastlines. My
>>>>         small country is great in the world of producing wind
>>>>         turbines and energy efficient technology. We really need
>>>>         such non fossil energy alternatives if we want to still
>>>>         live above sea level. Evacuating a country and its high
>>>>         infrastructure will be quite expensive. Besides where
>>>>         should all the people go when lots of area will be affected
>>>>         in other countries too? To make the wind power industry was
>>>>         expensive for the tax payers but now it is a big export
>>>>         article making the investment pay back as well as having
>>>>         free energy and cleaner air.
>>>>
>>>>         The idea with the CO2 tax is to force people away from
>>>>         increasing the already huge fossil energy problem as well
>>>>         as paying for solutions. Investing the money in cleaner
>>>>         technology in the most polluting countries gives the best
>>>>         climate payback. Of course taxes aren't good in corrupt
>>>>         places. Thus first get rid of corruption which requires
>>>>         open systems.
>>>>
>>>>         Countries like India China Russia and USA have great
>>>>         potential to reduce CO2 emissions.
>>>>
>>>>         Regards
>>>>         Ole
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>         ---In [email protected]
>>>>         <mailto:[email protected]>, <mkjekyll@...>
>>>>         <mailto:mkjekyll@...> wrote :
>>>>
>>>>         Kone,
>>>>
>>>>         I agree with your assessment and don't believe anyone
>>>>         should own resources outside their own country, perhaps a
>>>>         limited lease in exchange for building the infrastructure. 
>>>>         There is greed and lack of ethics in all systems socialist
>>>>         or capitalist.
>>>>
>>>>         Crony capitalism is evil.  War economies are evil,
>>>>         unchecked profit without ethics is evil. Lack of
>>>>         competition due to monopoly is evil. A system where one is
>>>>         able to live free and build competitive business in an
>>>>         ethical way is the ultimate for human ascendance. 
>>>>         Unfortunately the US has been taken over by greedy people
>>>>         without ethics.  The government in Venezuela is fucked,
>>>>         this is why we have so many people migrating to Colombia
>>>>         starving and looking for work.  I speak to these people
>>>>         every day, no bullshit.  It is not the US fault what
>>>>         happened it is the fault of greedy pig socialist same as
>>>>         greedy pig capitalist.
>>>>
>>>>         Venezuela was a paradise and then the dictator forced out
>>>>         all the oil company engineers and other Venezuelan business
>>>>         professionals who knew what they were doing in order to
>>>>         give high paying jobs to military politicos who did not
>>>>         know shit but could protect his ass.  All the profitable
>>>>         businesses were socialized in these ways.  From what the
>>>>         Venezuelan doctor told me the roots of all of the downfall
>>>>         was promulgated the most by Cuban social engineering much
>>>>         more so than US spook shit, though that was dirty pool no
>>>>         doubt.  Poor people who do not fight to better themselves
>>>>         or are limited for other reasons will always vote for the
>>>>         most free shit but someone has to pay for it, sooner or
>>>>         later all the good businesses leave and their are no jobs.
>>>>         Free markets rather than socially overseen bullshit ones
>>>>         like UN fucking carbon credits where CO2 is now some
>>>>         pollutant but paying Gore will fix the problem.  Total
>>>>         socialist top down control based business model.  The
>>>>         places I go where one can live well and has the best access
>>>>         to goods and services are free market vertically
>>>>         integrated, all the socialist top down controlled have much
>>>>         less options to a person willing to perform learn and
>>>>         grow.  Unfortunately some people elicit a failure to
>>>>         thrive, in nature same thing happens with animals,
>>>>         existence takes fucking hard work.
>>>>
>>>>         Doesn't matter the system human frailty is the sad part.
>>>>         Ideally we should have no government and be self governing
>>>>         but sapiens are not grounded and ethical enough yet and
>>>>         likely never will be as long as they are taught UNESCO all
>>>>         suffering is due to someone else and they are simply
>>>>         victims of circumstance.  The truth about Venezuela is
>>>>         assholes took over and destroyed a healthy economy.  There
>>>>         were CIA shenanigans for sure but this is not the reason
>>>>         for the place sucking now.  Also Ecuador is changing to
>>>>         this shitty system where the socialist government thinks
>>>>         they can fix everything by taxing business's.  No one we
>>>>         spoke with who owned a pizza place or a market etc were
>>>>         using bank accounts anymore because their money kept being
>>>>         appropriated for public works with higher taxes every few
>>>>         months.  It is in a sad state now full of crime and hateful
>>>>         victim mentality.  Barely any selection at markets many
>>>>         shelves are not stocked.  Businesses are being forced
>>>>         offshore or closing so there is the truth witnessed
>>>>         firsthand.  Being that I live in South America I have the
>>>>         opportunity to assess these issues first hand.
>>>>
>>>>         On 12/10/2018 4:15 PM, konehead@... <mailto:konehead@...>
>>>>         [EVGRAY] wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>              
>>>>>
>>>>>             Pure bullshit propaganda "socialist" government being
>>>>>             cause of big problems in venezuala. The fucking
>>>>>             capitalist war monger pigs in wadhington dc are the
>>>>>             problem, blockading, sanctioning. Starvng, sending
>>>>>             in.metcenarie ( paid terrorists) from Columbia and
>>>>>             whoever wants to make a CIA buck killing innocent plus
>>>>>             Supposed humanitarian NGOs paying protestrs to start
>>>>>             riots and all the other shit capitalist profit first
>>>>>             evil pigs from hell will do.
>>>>>             Its all standard procedure for CIA and State
>>>>>             department anytime a "socialist" government .voted
>>>>>             into office tells US capitalist orporations to get the
>>>>>             fuck out of their country and will never allow US
>>>>>             military base on their soil.
>>>>>             Imagine the gal l to kick out US corporations who say
>>>>>             they "own" land and industry in a country and give the
>>>>>             land and industry to the citizens of the country!!
>>>>>             Fuck that is reason to invade kill thousands of
>>>>>             socialist peasants who would be better off dead than
>>>>>             communist sympathizers eh...
>>>>>
>

Mick,
There will be no coking in the new system of things. We will all eat raw plant foods.

George

    On Tuesday, 18 December 2018, 8:51:36 am AEDT, Mick [email protected] [EVGRAY] <[email protected]> wrote:  
 
     
 

George,
 
In light of your expectations one could argue that free energy is most important, well unless people want to live in the dark and only keep warm and cook with fire.  And if one desires to run refigeration...
 
Have you run across any top notch books on wild edibles or prefer the web?  A good picture book would be nice in case of something like an Carrington event of man made EMP.
 
 On 12/13/2018 7:22 PM, george gray [email protected] [EVGRAY] wrote:
  
     Mick, 
  Advice on raw plant food is easy to find on the net. There are many so-called weeds, which are very nutritious and these grow rapidly and are in abundance everywhere; people don't give them a second glance.  So in hard times we can eat them.  The human body does not require a lot to eat, we don't need three square meals a day.  Just eat when we are hungry is the best way. 
  Things are going to get so chaotic that many people will wish they were dead but those who know what is really happening will stand firm and keep living if not murdered by someone.  Getting out of the city is a good thing to do, and also learning how to live off the land beforehand by studying what advice is on the net.  Simplicity is important, just live a simple life during all this upheaval and be prepared to lose all possessions because the the government will claim all things belong to it.  We will own nothing. 
  Many places will come under Martial law and the defense forces will all wear blue hats and be under the control of the UN and God is going to make them destroy all false religion from the face of the earth.  He is going to  put His one thought into the hearts and minds of the political rulers to carry out their one thought in destroying religion. This will be the start of the War of Armageddon and when all trace of false religion is gone the politicians will feel very smug believing that now they have the whole world under their control without the help of the clergy. 
  Then God carries out the rest of His war and completely destroys the political system and locks Satan away from mankind for 1,000 years.  God will bring to ruin those ruining the earth.
  
  He will then teach us how to manage the earth and restore it to paradise conditions where mankind will live forever on earth. Psalm 37:29 The righteous themselves will possess the earth and they will reside forever upon it. 
  The quest for free energy becomes of little importance in the light of what dangers are fast approaching us. 
  George
  
      On Friday, 14 December 2018, 10:44:57 am AEDT, Mick [email protected] [EVGRAY] <[email protected]> wrote:  
  
          
 
 
George,
 
What I can comment on from firsthand knowledge is that in Oregon the privately held forest land is much better managed.  They learned a long time ago if they don't replant properly the land becomes worthless.   It is mostly the BLM (public?) forestry land which is the most mismanaged as they just take money from  the highest bidder and then rip out the trees to chip for the Chinese market.  Oregonians who live and work in the forest knew about the spotted owl scam by Gore and company.  They are a fairly common animal.  Outsiders were brought in in the 70's to begin the process and act like native Oregonians, they used fake names  and were very paranoid and undercover.  Many paid protestors suddenly appeared no one knew them from the neighborhoods.  When they were successful in the government manipulation they left the state to the next "project". Now BLM are going into the forest with rifles and killing other Owls claiming they are a  threat to the spotted owl.  It is very sick and arrogant behavior by people just blindly following orders.  This is another example of how feel good legislation can change humans into monsters.  They also kill swaths of tress by injecting roundup into the phloem and cambium.  They do not pay attention to earth mother or listen to the soul of the forest.
 Anyone one whom does not respect earth mother is a fucking parasite.  When sitting in on BLM meetings it is so transparent the manipulation.  They send in professional facilitators who pretend to work for BLM and steer the people attending to reaching a predetermined outcome.  They are very slick and make it seem as though the people have come up with this plan for action on their own.  The latest is called the Wild lands Project and all the musicians, artists and hippy types are blindly being led to justify projects to destroy infrastructure so humans will be unable to live in these  rural places. Warren Buffet is behind some of this too.
 
 
If biblical or not they are following the Revelations like a movie script.  Anyhow, yes you are entirely correct, this is the game plan some have known about for many  years when it was explained by some few good elites.  It is very sad Sapiens are selling out their own children's future for money and power.  Many will starve from this Chaos.  Some of the Elites are against this and they are now forced to sit on the sidelines or be financially  ruined for even questioning. Some will help during the chaos like the underground railroad and it will be very anonymous. Each year in the US there is a meeting of all the families who are worth one billion  or more, it is nothing that has been leaked on the internet as security is so intense.  There will be an economic or transport catastrophe and personal chips will be the resolution.
 
It would be helpful if you could post recommendations of ideas in which folks can prepare and save food long term for  the raw and vegan type diet you support.
 
I was told one must remain flexible without bending, Flexibility without bending!
 

 
  On 12/13/2018 5:32 PM, george gray [email protected] [EVGRAY] wrote:
  
     Yes Mick, you are absolutely correct. We do have to manage or control the earth and tend to it.  But what I'm trying to get across is the fact that we are mismanaging the earth and the Elite are destroying it in their quest to have complete control of  it and us.  If we don't control/manage it, then for sure we will have out of control wild  fires and also more deserts.  My understanding is that within the next 10 years or less the Elite  will have caused so much chaos in every country that the people will gladly accept "order out of chaos" by choosing the UN as the one world government.  I can see all this from the bible and have been watching it develop for over 60  years. 
  The governments are merely puppets controlled by the Elite, but the Elite are also puppets  controlled by Satan the Devil who is misleading the entire inhabited earth.  God's war of Armageddon is between God and His angels and the Devil and his angels.  God is going to be successful and the Devil is to be cast down and away  from mankind for 1,000 years.  During the 1,000 years we will bring the whole earth into a paradise so we will all have to learn how to control everything correctly learning about the many  cycles of life that exist on earth. 
  The time is short now and the chaos will quickly get much worse all over the earth, so keep your  eyes open and just watch how things develop.  We cannot stop what has been allowed to be set in motion so we must learn how to  bend like a reed so as not to break.  Don't try to swim upstream because the current will be too strong and if you put your head up  out of the trenches you will get it blown off so to speak.  Go with the flow and see if you can live through what is coming. 
  George 
  
      On Thursday, 13 December 2018, 10:52:43 pm AEDT, Mick Jekyll [email protected] [EVGRAY] <[email protected]> wrote:  
  
          George, You forgot one thing, the green vs gold  reflection back from the sun.  Where there are no trees the temperature  rises with places that have the grains that go gold and  brown after early spring.  A thick forest does need to be tended else it  just becomes overgrown.and burns up.  Responsible logging and replanting kept the  firebreaks and roads we used to use to fight fires in Oregon.  Sad to see trees felled but better a few then  just burning up whole multiple sections of forests  with all the wildlife burned to  death too. These idiots are turning central california  into a desert, all the tree farms with oranges and nuts have been droughted out by  the theft of water from the farmers.  It is going to be sand dunes soon.  The trappers killed all the  beavers and ruined our natural aquifers, now the  ecologists want to remove the  hydroelectric dams and finish it off with  desertification.  The fish ladders are all in  disrepair and the Salmon cant spawn.  This is because the globalist have a  wildlands project to renove all people.  Idiots forgot about beavers.  
  On Wed, Dec 12, 2018, 9:34 PM george  gray [email protected] [EVGRAY] <[email protected]> wrote:
  
        Good post Ole, 
  The cutting down of trees is  one of the most disturbing  things to nature.  Tree felling, ground  clearing, broad acre grain crop  farming, and over grazing  of animals are the things that start  deserts. 
  Trees bring rain and nature cycles  the rain according to the trees and the moisture therein.  Deserts do not bring rain. 
  In a forest the ground is  protected from the sun by the foliage and  the litter on the ground and  when it rains the water is fully absorbed  into the soil. 
  When the land is exposed to the  sun and baked it cannot absorb water  when it rains and so the  road to deserts continues and  gets worse with time. Ploughing the ground does great harm in  exposing it to the sun.
  
  The correct diet for humans is  raw fruits, raw vegetables and water.  Humans are not designed to  eat grains or grain products,  which are acid forming in the  body and cause the ONE disease with  400 symptoms. 
  Cooked food is a slow poison so we  don't need to eat animals or other things which require cooking. 
  By planting billions of  fruit trees the earth will be protected  from the sun and the  deserts can slowly be recovered. 
  For the first 1,656 years up to  the flood of Noah people are raw food and lived for well over 900  years. 
  If you study Viktor Schaubeger's  writings he was always trying to be  in harmony with nature  and he understood the cycles of  forests and water. 
  There is no other creature on  earth that first destroys its food by  cooking; humans are the  only creatures out of step with nature  and also no other adult  creature on earth drinks milk. 
  People have been led in all  directions away from nature and  what is good for us and  they are addicted to the unnatural  ways of life. 
  However Agenda 2030 with the UN in  control of the earth for a little while is not far off, and that  makes God's war of Armageddon a  close reality now, so we can  all learn how to live healthy lives  in the not too distant  future. 
  George
  
      On Thursday, 13 December 2018,  10:45:07 am AEDT, [email protected] [EVGRAY] <[email protected]> wrote:  
  
          
Viktor Schauberger studied nature  and was convinced that explosive  energy sources violated  nature. Schaubergers home power  plant and levitating technology used implosion. He  warned that nature would be destroyed  the air would be  unbreathable and the water dead if  continuing with using more and more explosion energy. The  explosive principle decomposes  matter while the implosion  principle builds up matter. I  don't know if he has been proven wrong or right but as a human I  would rather breath oxygen than CO2. If I was a tree I would probably  prefer CO2 instead. The problem is that the balance of the  atmosphere is changing faster than  the evolution of humans..  Thus will we be able to live at this  planet that is changing  faster than ever? The weaker species  are already dispreading at alarming rates. Will we be the next  one?
 
 Schauberger and many  others have shown alternatives  to explosion energy. If  nobody can guarantee that it isn't  necessary for coming generations to be able to live here we  really shouldn't work against  nature. Nature probably will  win no mater what we do. The problem is  is it with us or without us  in the equation. It is said that  thousands die because of breathing polluted air in the cities.  Some cities have achieved much cleaner air making it easier to have  long lives in them. Because lots of people make their living using  destructive technology doesn't mean  they will survive in the  long run when destroying the planet they  live on.
 
 Even the more and more  destructive weather is said to be  natures way of trying to  re-balance itself. The more we  disturb nature the more nature tries to balance itself even if  this means destroying humankind.
 
 Instead of eating cows  just eat less cow which makes a  difference in the number of  cows. As the Chinese are getting richer  they also eat more meat. So  should they increase their level to the  level of the most cow eating nations or should the most cow  eating nations decline in the amount of cows to solve the problem? I  don't see increasing the level helps solve the problem even  for the people that wants to survive.
 
 Regards
 Ole
 
 
 
 ---In [email protected], <nwootan@...> wrote :
 
  
Study NATURE.   Simple fact is that the  volcanoes around the planet place  more green house gases  into stratosphere than has  mankind since we have been on earth.  Simple fact. Read just one  example. https://pubs.usgs.gov/fs/1997/fs113-97/
 
 Now consider a much worse  green house gas (25X worse than CO2) ,  Methane, which is released  from the frozen methane hydrate off  the Continental shelf and the Arctic tundra.  See   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methane_clathrate
 
And the idiots want to legislate COW  FARTS.    YES, Mars has a CO2 atmosphere due  to all the SUVs running around up there.
 
 On 12/11/2018 7:42 PM, Mick  mkjekyll@... [EVGRAY] wrote:
  
 
    
Ole,
 
Go check the math the man made CO2  causing a problem is a farce.
 
CO2 which only emits at three hi Q  nodes 10 point something microns 5 and one more is being  calculated as a full bandwidth  black body radiator, secondly there is no distinction  between night and daytime in the calcs.
 Infra red is 1mm to 700  nanometers far wider than the 3 infra red  nodes of excited CO2.  It takes a good amount of  energy to excite co2 to release any  energy.  Pretty much all the heat  re-radiated by Co2 will take place within  10 meters of the ground.  About the height of most trees.
 
 
  Any child knows a cloud passing  overhead cools, only at night can  water vapor the largest  greenhouse gas trap and reflect  energy. CO2 weighs more  than nitrogen, it stays where plants like to  turn it back to oxygen.  In fact there is a lake in  Africa that is volcanic and burps CO2.  When this happens it  travels into the valleys and suffocates  all the local villages  humans and animals, because it is  too heavy to rise and displaces the oxygen and nitrogen.   
 The ice core samples were  flipped the wrong way initially it  was reported that CO2  increase then temp increase.  Actually C02 increase was  lagging the global heating by 600 or so  years in the ice samples,  did any revisions take place in the  science, not at all, none I  could find anyways.
 
 
Man made Co2 levels may be 3 percent  of total, fluctuations from fires and volcanoes can often vary 20  percent from the normal natural levels that are a hell of a lot  higher than the 3 percent of human use.
 
When one is a professor one only is  awarded grants based on what the think tanks dictate, this is why no  alternative energy as we are familiar with here is ever funded.  Yes I think all of us at  this site want petroleum energy to go  the way of the dinosaurs, but  CO2 isn't the problem.   Carbon monoxide,  sulfur dioxide, and many others  are actually a poison not a  symbiotic biological as is Co2
 
 
Now for the reality, when all the  outlook is bad and fearful the sky is falling, nothing like  Hey we can now grow crops at further  northern latitudes!, or  we are using less energy heating our  homes.  No instead it's all gloom and  doom and fear based and the seas are  rising etc etc.  When one sees a binary conscientious  one should expect to be bent over without lube.
 
 
So Al Gore and James blood create a  futures exchange to trade carbon  credit so one need only pay  them to pollute more, hey problem  solved just sign on the  dotted line.  Most of the industry has  been moved to China and India, they  are exempted from the  carbon emission limitations.  Sound like a scam yet.  
 We are about to hit a  bifurcation point when the weather goes  the other way and not  slowly, quickly like turning a  thermostat.  All the global warming  distopian fear will be replaced by  wishing it will heat up  instead.  Sapiens are really an  arrogant lot, pretending they can  determine a problem of  this magnitude with a temporal  limited data set built on a pathetic excuse for the scientific  process in which empirical  thought has been completely disregarded because the  top of the pyramid has a plan for us  all.  Have a view at odds to  conscientious and one is labeled a  heretic or a denier.  Sounds like the Spanish  inquisition.  Throw another Bruno on the  fire, we need some heat...
 
 
Now lets talk about real problems,  bunker oil running the super cargo ships.  About 18 of these ships produce  enough pollution in our oceans as  all the cars combined on  the planet, there are hundreds of  these, maybe thousands  shitting up the ocean with fuels so thick  one can walk on it until it  is preheated to burn in the engines.  Fracking causing the  poisoning of our water tables across  the planet but the EPA will  not lift a hand because the fracking  chemicals are a secret  protected intellectual property so  they allegedly can't know if they are damaging. The contrails from  the new turbine bypass engines which burn much cooler hence  stay suspended much longer are changing  the planets temperature  bigtime.  It was measured when during  911 no planes were flying.
 
I like CO2 and believe it to be a  cooling gas based on my work with  flowing gas CO2 lasers.  It makes plants grow  and replaces out gassed and burned oxygen  from our atmosphere so  we can live, no CO2 no oxygen.  None of the claims from Gores  silly movie have happened yet as the sea was supposed to rise many  feet by now. A few MM over the last  hundred years it has  actually been measured to rise. The  polar bears are all drowned, even though they can swim  hundreds of miles in a go.
 
I am glad your country produces clean  energy, this is something we should all aspire to but I will pray to  keep my CO2 and revel in natures power as each season of change the  CO2 is released and then  re-absorbed and transmuted  into breathable oxygen.
 
 

 
 On 12/11/2018 7:48 AM, onielsen@... [EVGRAY] wrote:
  
      
Hi Mick,
 
 "Free markets rather than socially  overseen bullshit ones like UN  fucking carbon credits where  CO2 is now some pollutant but paying  Gore will fix the problem."
 Our government has come up  with a climate plan that experts as  well as industry says  isn't ambitious enough to  solve the problem. The glaciers of Greenland are melting at  increasing rates. The permafrost of  Siberia is melting too  causing huge releases of methane gas  which is a much worse greenhouse gas than CO2. The CO2 level is  at an extreme height. The melting of the ice of Greenland will  cause big trouble for many highly  populated areas along  coastlines. This may cause millions of  refugees from big cities  when becoming uninhabitable. Therefore it  is much cheaper to do  something about the problem now  than waiting a decade to solve it. This will make lots of jobs in  creating solutions instead of  having to evacuate big  cities and coastlines. My small country  is great in the world of  producing wind turbines and energy  efficient technology. We really need such non fossil energy  alternatives if we want to still live  above sea level.  Evacuating a country and its high  infrastructure will be quite expensive. Besides where should all the  people go when lots of area will be affected in other  countries too? To make the wind power  industry was expensive for  the tax payers but now it is a big export  article making the investment  pay back as well as having free energy  and cleaner air.
 
 The idea with the CO2 tax is  to force people away from  increasing the already huge  fossil energy problem as well as paying  for solutions. Investing the  money in cleaner technology in  the most polluting countries  gives the best climate  payback. Of course taxes aren't good in  corrupt places. Thus  first get rid of corruption which requires  open systems.
 
 Countries like India China  Russia and USA have great potential to  reduce CO2 emissions.
 
 Regards
 Ole
 
 
 
 ---In [email protected], <mkjekyll@...> wrote :
 
  
Kone,
 
I agree with your assessment and  don't believe anyone should own resources outside their own country,  perhaps a limited lease in exchange  for building the  infrastructure.  There is greed and lack of  ethics in all systems socialist or  capitalist.
 
 
Crony capitalism is evil.  War economies are evil,  unchecked profit without ethics is  evil. Lack of competition  due to monopoly is evil. A system  where one is able to live  free and build competitive business in an  ethical way is the ultimate  for human ascendance.  Unfortunately the US has  been taken over by greedy people without  ethics.  The government in Venezuela is  fucked, this is why we have so many people migrating to Colombia  starving and looking for work.  I speak to these people every  day, no bullshit.  It is not the US fault what  happened it is the fault of greedy pig  socialist same as greedy pig  capitalist.
 
Venezuela was a paradise and then the  dictator forced out all the oil company engineers and  other Venezuelan business  professionals who knew what they were doing in order to give high  paying jobs to military politicos who did not know shit but could  protect his ass.  All the profitable businesses  were socialized in these ways.  From what the Venezuelan  doctor told me the roots of all of the  downfall was promulgated  the most by Cuban social engineering  much more so than US spook  shit, though that was dirty pool no  doubt.  Poor people who do not fight to  better themselves or are limited  for other reasons will  always vote for the most free shit but  someone has to pay for it,  sooner or later all the good  businesses leave and their are no jobs. Free markets rather  than socially overseen bullshit ones  like UN fucking carbon  credits where CO2 is now some pollutant  but paying Gore will fix  the problem.  Total socialist top  down control based business model.  The places I go where one can  live well and has the best access to  goods and services are  free market vertically integrated,  all the socialist top  down controlled have much less  options to a person willing to perform learn and grow.  Unfortunately some people  elicit a failure to thrive, in  nature same thing happens  with animals, existence takes fucking  hard work.
 
 Doesn't matter the system  human frailty is the sad part. Ideally  we should have no government  and be self governing but sapiens are  not grounded and ethical  enough yet and likely never will be as  long as they are taught  UNESCO all suffering is due to someone  else and they are simply victims of circumstance.  The truth about  Venezuela is assholes took over and  destroyed a healthy economy.  There were CIA shenanigans  for sure but this is not the reason for  the place sucking now.  Also Ecuador is changing to  this shitty system where the socialist  government thinks they  can fix everything by taxing  business's.  No one we spoke with who  owned a pizza place or a market etc  were using bank accounts  anymore because their money kept  being appropriated for public works with higher taxes  every few months.  It is in a sad state now full of  crime and hateful victim mentality.  Barely any selection at  markets many shelves are not stocked.  Businesses are being forced  offshore or closing so there is the  truth witnessed  firsthand.  Being that I live in South  America I have the opportunity to  assess these issues first  hand.
 
 On 12/10/2018 4:15 PM, konehead@... [EVGRAY] wrote:
  
 
    
Pure bullshit propaganda  "socialist" government being cause of  big problems in venezuala.  The fucking capitalist war monger pigs in  wadhington dc are the  problem, blockading, sanctioning.  Starvng, sending in.metcenarie ( paid terrorists)  from Columbia and whoever wants to make  a CIA buck killing  innocent plus Supposed humanitarian  NGOs paying protestrs to start riots and all the other shit  capitalist profit first evil pigs from hell will do.
 Its all standard  procedure for CIA and State department  anytime a "socialist"  government .voted into office tells  US capitalist orporations to get the fuck out of their country and  will never allow US military base on their soil.
 Imagine the gal l to kick  out US corporations who say they  "own" land and industry in a  country and give the land and industry  to the citizens of  the country!! Fuck that is reason to  invade kill thousands of socialist peasants who would be  better off dead than communist  sympathizers eh...

George you take the water out of plant food and there's nothing there .

On Tuesday, December 18, 2018, george gray [email protected]
[EVGRAY] <[email protected]> wrote:

>
>
> Mick,
>
> There will be no coking in the new system of things. We will all eat raw
> plant foods.
>
> George
>
> On Tuesday, 18 December 2018, 8:51:36 am AEDT, Mick [email protected]
> [EVGRAY] <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> George,
>
> In light of your expectations one could argue that free energy is most
> important, well unless people want to live in the dark and only keep warm
> and cook with fire.  And if one desires to run refigeration...
>
> Have you run across any top notch books on wild edibles or prefer the
> web?  A good picture book would be nice in case of something like an
> Carrington event of man made EMP.
> On 12/13/2018 7:22 PM, george gray [email protected] [EVGRAY]
> wrote:
>
>
> Mick,
>
> Advice on raw plant food is easy to find on the net. There are many
> so-called weeds, which are very nutritious and these grow rapidly and are
> in abundance everywhere; people don't give them a second glance.  So in
> hard times we can eat them.  The human body does not require a lot to eat,
> we don't need three square meals a day.  Just eat when we are hungry is the
> best way.
>
> Things are going to get so chaotic that many people will wish they were
> dead but those who know what is really happening will stand firm and keep
> living if not murdered by someone.  Getting out of the city is a good thing
> to do, and also learning how to live off the land beforehand by studying
> what advice is on the net. Simplicity is important, just live a simple life
> during all this upheaval and be prepared to lose all possessions because
> the the government will claim all things belong to it.  We will own nothing.
>
> Many places will come under Martial law and the defense forces will all
> wear blue hats and be under the control of the UN and God is going to make
> them destroy all false religion from the face of the earth.  He is going
> to  put His one thought into the hearts and minds of the political rulers
> to carry out their one thought in destroying religion. This will be the
> start of the War of Armageddon and when all trace of false religion is gone
> the politicians will feel very smug believing that now they have the whole
> world under their control without the help of the clergy.
>
> Then God carries out the rest of His war and completely destroys the
> political system and locks Satan away from mankind for 1,000 years.  God
> will bring to ruin those ruining the earth.
>
> He will then teach us how to manage the earth and restore it to paradise
> conditions where mankind will live forever on earth. Psalm 37:29 The
> righteous themselves will possess the earth and they will reside forever
> upon it.
>
> The quest for free energy becomes of little importance in the light of
> what dangers are fast approaching us.
>
> George
>
> On Friday, 14 December 2018, 10:44:57 am AEDT, Mick [email protected]
> [EVGRAY] <[email protected]> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> George,
>
> What I can comment on from firsthand knowledge is that in Oregon the
> privately held forest land is much better managed.  They learned a long
> time ago if they don't replant properly the land becomes worthless.   It is
> mostly the BLM (public?) forestry land which is the most mismanaged as they
> just take money from the highest bidder and then rip out the trees to chip
> for the Chinese market.  Oregonians who live and work in the forest knew
> about the spotted owl scam by Gore and company.  They are a fairly common
> animal.  Outsiders were brought in in the 70's to begin the process and act
> like native Oregonians, they used fake names and were very paranoid and
> undercover.  Many paid protestors suddenly appeared no one knew them from
> the neighborhoods.  When they were successful in the government
> manipulation they left the state to the next "project". Now BLM are going
> into the forest with rifles and killing other Owls claiming they are a
> threat to the spotted owl.  It is very sick and arrogant behavior by people
> just blindly following orders.  This is another example of how feel good
> legislation can change humans into monsters.  They also kill swaths of
> tress by injecting roundup into the phloem and cambium.  They do not pay
> attention to earth mother or listen to the soul of the forest.
> Anyone one whom does not respect earth mother is a fucking parasite.  When
> sitting in on BLM meetings it is so transparent the manipulation.  They
> send in professional facilitators who pretend to work for BLM and steer the
> people attending to reaching a predetermined outcome.  They are very slick
> and make it seem as though the people have come up with this plan for
> action on their own.  The latest is called the Wild lands Project and all
> the musicians, artists and hippy types are blindly being led to justify
> projects to destroy infrastructure so humans will be unable to live in
> these rural places. Warren Buffet is behind some of this too.
>
> If biblical or not they are following the Revelations like a movie
> script.  Anyhow, yes you are entirely correct, this is the game plan some
> have known about for many years when it was explained by some few good
> elites.  It is very sad Sapiens are selling out their own children's future
> for money and power.  Many will starve from this Chaos.  Some of the Elites
> are against this and they are now forced to sit on the sidelines or be
> financially ruined for even questioning. Some will help during the chaos
> like the underground railroad and it will be very anonymous. Each year in
> the US there is a meeting of all the families who are worth one billion or
> more, it is nothing that has been leaked on the internet as security is so
> intense.  There will be an economic or transport catastrophe and personal
> chips will be the resolution.
>
> It would be helpful if you could post recommendations of ideas in which
> folks can prepare and save food long term for the raw and vegan type diet
> you support.
>
> I was told one must remain flexible without bending, Flexibility without
> bending!
>
>
> On 12/13/2018 5:32 PM, george gray [email protected] [EVGRAY]
> wrote:
>
>
> Yes Mick, you are absolutely correct. We do have to manage or control the
> earth and tend to it.  But what I'm trying to get across is the fact that
> we are mismanaging the earth and the Elite are destroying it in their quest
> to have complete control of it and us.  If we don't control/manage it, then
> for sure we will have out of control wild fires and also more deserts.  My
> understanding is that within the next 10 years or less the Elite will have
> caused so much chaos in every country that the people will gladly accept
> "order out of chaos" by choosing the UN as the one world government.  I can
> see all this from the bible and have been watching it develop for over 60
> years.
>
> The governments are merely puppets controlled by the Elite, but the Elite
> are also puppets controlled by Satan the Devil who is misleading the entire
> inhabited earth.  God's war of Armageddon is between God and His angels and
> the Devil and his angels.  God is going to be successful and the Devil is
> to be cast down and away from mankind for 1,000 years.  During the 1,000
> years we will bring the whole earth into a paradise so we will all have to
> learn how to control everything correctly learning about the many cycles of
> life that exist on earth.
>
> The time is short now and the chaos will quickly get much worse all over
> the earth, so keep your eyes open and just watch how things develop.  We
> cannot stop what has been allowed to be set in motion so we must learn how
> to bend like a reed so as not to break.  Don't try to swim upstream because
> the current will be too strong and if you put your head up out of the
> trenches you will get it blown off so to speak.  Go with the flow and see
> if you can live through what is coming.
>
> George
>
>
> On Thursday, 13 December 2018, 10:52:43 pm AEDT, Mick Jekyll
> [email protected] [EVGRAY] <[email protected]>
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
> George, You forgot one thing, the green vs gold reflection back from the
> sun.  Where there are no trees the temperature rises with places that have
> the grains that go gold and brown after early spring.  A thick forest does
> need to be tended else it just becomes overgrown.and burns up.  Responsible
> logging and replanting kept the firebreaks and roads we used to use to
> fight fires in Oregon.  Sad to see trees felled but better a few then just
> burning up whole multiple sections of forests with all the wildlife burned
> to death too.
> These idiots are turning central california into a desert, all the tree
> farms with oranges and nuts have been droughted out by the theft of water
> from the farmers.  It is going to be sand dunes soon.  The trappers killed
> all the beavers and ruined our natural aquifers, now the ecologists want to
> remove the hydroelectric dams and finish it off with desertification.  The
> fish ladders are all in disrepair and the Salmon cant spawn.  This is
> because the globalist have a
>
>

Who wanted wild edibles?  https://www.wildedible.com/ https://www.wildedible.com/