Re: [EVGRAY] Peculiar world...

Mick! Your question is interesting!  Since, as stated, there is infinite 
numbers between 0 and 1 in analog! Hypothetically!!! lets take two 
classical music scores (audio analog) and hetrodyne (beat) them and 
establish an encryption algorithm based on freq and amplitude within 
score, (remember the infinity factor in numbers) .  I think you are 
smart enough to see how this cannot be decrypted since all the pertinent 
information would be lost in their conversion process in-order to 
analyze in the digital format.  Digitizing just breaks up info into 
segments based on sampling rate!  Digitized music is not as good as the 
natural analog form.


On 9/28/2018 5:02 PM, Mick [email protected] [EVGRAY] wrote:
> Encryption in analog, interesting concept! How fine would you encode 
> that with more dynamic range than lets say 64 bit digital which goes 
> way beyond the theoretical performance of analog circuitry. Would like 
> to hear your concepts on this format of encryption.

Norm,

You may be forgetting I am an audio engineer with both large format
analog multitrack and digital capabilities so am well aware of the
differences and of Nyquist and Shannon.   I build my own tube
microphones and monitoring chain and am very OCD concerning the
integrity of the music.  My point is this.  Even with your analog
recording of two classical pieces in order to provide an encryption
scheme that could be recorded and then played back in order to decode
one still would require points of reference, indexing the frequency and
dynamics somehow in order to provide for the codex.  The limitation
would be how close can one measure between one analog state and another
and where do the electronics lose the signal into distortion and noise
floor.

With digital recording noise floor is no longer an issue and with enough
bits we can dig into the analog signal beyond the capability of the best
analog electronics. A digital error correction scheme will add more
bandwidth but allow for digging the signal out of any level of muck.  If
one was reading off the tape magnetic domains with a laser then
bypassing all the repro electronics a more accurate analog resolution of
the codex could be reproduced but again what is your sampling method for
this code in order to decode it?

Hypothetically you are correct but in the real world one is bound by the
thermodynamics of the situation.   There is no limit to the number size
in binary or hex math so whatever you can come up with that will work in
analog can be replicated digitally because no matter how elegant the
solution in the end it still needs to be counted.

By the way you might be surprised at the level of reproduction of high
sample rate digital audio.  It can now pretty much best analog except
for one thing, the mixing buss.  Even with 64 bits deep of calculation
multitrack analog summing has an advantage preserving the very small
phase differences that our ears and brain cue from so I built a passive
24 channel balanced summing bus in order to mix through to preserve the
phase information.   Problem being the summing on DAW's is currently
performed PCM rather than delta sigma single bit, else the digital
summing would preserve the microphase of multiple tracks.  There is a
system that sums DSD but it is prohibitively expensive. 



On 9/29/2018 6:41 AM, Norman Wootan [email protected] [EVGRAY] wrote:
>  
>
> Mick! Your question is interesting!  Since, as stated, there is infinite
> numbers between 0 and 1 in analog! Hypothetically!!! lets take two
> classical music scores (audio analog) and hetrodyne (beat) them and
> establish an encryption algorithm based on freq and amplitude within
> score, (remember the infinity factor in numbers) .  I think you are
> smart enough to see how this cannot be decrypted since all the pertinent
> information would be lost in their conversion process in-order to
> analyze in the digital format.  Digitizing just breaks up info into
> segments based on sampling rate!  Digitized music is not as good as the
> natural analog form.
>
> On 9/28/2018 5:02 PM, Mick [email protected] [EVGRAY] wrote:
> > Encryption in analog, interesting concept! How fine would you encode
> > that with more dynamic range than lets say 64 bit digital which goes
> > way beyond the theoretical performance of analog circuitry. Would like
> > to hear your concepts on this format of encryption.
>
>

What Mick is talking about reminds me of the Extrema Patents where noise is
added to a analog signal that then goes through a comparater and the output
is averaged through a filter. The big advantage to the Extrema stuff is
that by adding a small amount of noise to a already analog voice buried in
the noise floor, you can increase the S/N ratio and can hear otherwise
signals hidden in the noise. Something about the brain can understand
patterns (such as speech) buried in the noise if a small amount of noise is
added into it before going through the Extrema circuits. I still have the
pcboard I made back in the 90's following their patents and other info from
the developers of this process and it does work! I was listening to the
"LOWFER" band at 160 to 190 khz and most guys ended up in the 189.xxx khz
area of the band due to limits on antenna size (50 ft max length, height,
total cylinder area of antenna) and the 1 watt max input requirements for
final stage of transmitter. But the circuit did work great for this
application. Now the US has added the 136khz and 530khz band to amateur
radio which gets some back interested in LF transmit and receiving. If you
haven't ever tried it, it presents challenges not to be had elsewhere on
the spectrum!

Also the Exrema circuits are very similiar to the Neurophone circuit of Pat
Flanagan's where audio could be transmitted into the head and hear audio
without going into the ear canel and has been show to work with totally
deaf people. Flanagan's circuit used two piezo disc and a circuit very
similar to transmit audio into the brain and the audio was transmitted in
via a modulated carrier in the 20 to 50 khz range the piezo transducers
were resonant at.

Needless to say, if you every listened to that LF band, you will know well
what I speak of about the noise and lightning crashes all summer and just
high noise level in general is due to many things such as a lot of noise
was generated  from the harmonic radiation from tv flybacks where the
fundimental frequency was 15.75 khz in US. They are mostly all gone now but
there are still some holding out with their old CRT tv's (and CRT computer
monitors) on the old NTSC standard which was shut off right after digital
TV transmission begun. We are currently on the ATSC 1.0, which will soon be
shut off (5 year clock started at CES in 02/18 this past early spring) and
will be changed fully to ATSC 3.0 (which isn't backwards compatable with
ATSC 1.0 standard of course, which all high def TV's in existance now will
be obsolete, save for the existance of a 'gateway box' they say you will be
able to buy for a couple hundred bucks, that will allow you to continue to
use current 4K UHD TV you now have for a period of time but that is not
slated to remain usable very long due to features embedded in ATSC 3.0 TV's
that allow remote turn on during emergencies and two way interaction using
5G). Full switchover will happen in less than 5 years and ATSC 3.0 is going
to be a worldwide standard, which has been in use in some foreign countries
since before the 2016 Olympics which were broadcast in 8K High Def using
ATSC 3.0). Samsung and LG have been making ATSC 3.0 tv's since 2015, but
not in US and aren't slated to show up here for another year or two at the
earliest as
l inventories are depleated in worldwide warehouses.

Damn, I got way off course from where I started!!!

Anyway look up the Extrema patents concerning how it works. If anyone needs
patent numbers for it, let me know and I'll dig them out and post them...

Mark

On Sep 29, 2018 7:29 AM, "Norman Wootan [email protected] [EVGRAY]" <
[email protected]> wrote:



Mick! Apparently you did not read the article I sent to you!  I have
analog to digital converters used to convert analog VHS tapes to digital
files!

https://www.quora.com/Can-analog-signals-be-stored-in-a-memory-If-not-why
Clearly states how the conversion works!

On 9/28/2018 5:02 PM, Mick [email protected] [EVGRAY] wrote:
> Analog is no saving grace as it is easily digitized.  Actually there
> is a form of analog that can be stored as digital information and that
> is direct stream digital.  It is similar to how a class D amp works
> but instead of analog switching at each defined voltage level the
> switching is digitally counted and memorized as a pulse stream.  I
> call this digilog because audio recorded in this way can be played
> back with a simple analog low pass filter.

Well if sniffing an intruder in your computer just open a shemale bestiality page link  and let them have it ,,,,,



(H) 

---In [email protected], <mkjekyll@...> wrote :

 George,
 Depends on what computer/phone one is using operating system etc.  I can sniff attempts at opening ports that will not open and it is fun to frustrate them.  The main two phones are Apple with IOS and Android, these both listen as you say when they are "off" 

 With my Linux phone I see all sorts of attempts that will not execute both from the phone company proper, SMS commands, and Google instantiating over IP.  Many phone calls now from weird numbers that just ring and hang up trying to put the phone in back in listen mode.  Part of the trick is to pull a sim card out of the phone it came with and use in another brand and model without disclosing the phone.  If it's not Andorid or IOS it really causes frustrations to the listeners.
 Don't get me wrong, the best place for any cell phone is in a sealed metal grounded trashcan, but aside from that total solution there are some good halfway solutions.  I no longer receive ads for places I drive to or shop at right during/after doing so as it always did with the droid phone.
 I am not of the opinion there is nothing we can do so just roll over and take it because they will win anyways.  Short of going to burner phones this is kind of rewarding for the time being.

 
 On 9/28/2018 7:19 PM, george gray canowindracd@... mailto:canowindracd@... [EVGRAY] wrote:

   Mick,
 

 They are listening to what you say even if your phone is turned off.  Some friends went out into a paddock and talked about stuff and when they came back their phones had ads for those particular things that they talked about.  They tried this many time and each time the same result with different products etc.
 

 The new appliances like TVs etc, can also listen to what you are saying in your house and with the 5G network and smart meters they may even know what you are thinking about LOL.
 

 George

 

 

 


 On Saturday, 29 September 2018, 1:29:51 am AEST, Mick mkjekyll@... mailto:mkjekyll@... [EVGRAY] <[email protected]> mailto:[email protected] wrote:
 

 

   
 Norm,
 Weird story, never heard that one.  Lately I am very unhappy with the lack of concern for privacy.  Most everyone carries a phone around that spies on them for corporations.  Google, Apple, Facebook and Twitter have become the defacto spy networks.  They all can connect to ones phone and use it's location, mic or camera at their discretion, they even tout these facts in their latest user agreements.  Even if one has the ability or smarts to lock this off the constitutional protections we are supposed to have from government are no longer in place for data networks.
 I think it is despicable what these companies do. specially Apple who has turned against musicians and uses Chinese slave labor at it's subsidiary companies like Foxconn building phones.  They force schoolkids to build phones for free.  After school the Chinese slaves must go work for Apple vampires or not graduate.

 Perhaps Ron has a good point in that he is exchanging the hassle and shortcomings of a non commercial OS in order to be secure.  I have switched to Ubuntu touch for my phone and can say many things dont work properly like bluetooth but I gladly forfeit these apps knowing I am not carrying a Trojan horse around.   Google android is like having the NSA in ones back pocket and Apple IOS is like having the Chinese MSS in ones pocket.  I am sure the two countries have intelligence sharing treaties as the fact China are commie murderers doesn't seem to phase anyone anymore.  The powers that be just want a world war with Russia a mostly free society while bending over for Chinese scum, I guess the pay is better.
 

 
 On 9/28/2018 7:18 AM, Norman Wootan nwootan@... mailto:nwootan@... [EVGRAY] wrote:

   
 Another note that Doug (Kone Head) will well remember goes back several years when we had a real trouble maker on this site. It got so bad that Kone had to break his saber and throw it out the gate along with him. He was a real computer savy guy and right after his being thrown out all of our YAHOO problems began!   DUH!

 
 On 9/28/2018 9:08 AM, Norman Wootan nwootan@... mailto:nwootan@... [EVGRAY] wrote:

   
 Another note about YAHOO, it is so FUCKED UP that Although I can post and receive messages within the group, I cannot access the files etc. cause YAHOO says I am not a member. When I try to register as a member it says CANNOT DO cause you are already a member.  Talked about a FUCKED UP System, you are looking at one!
 My TWO CENTS!  Norm

 
 On 9/28/2018 8:49 AM, Norman Wootan nwootan@... mailto:nwootan@... [EVGRAY] wrote:

   
 BTW!  Back in the days when Microsoft was trying to get an OS to mimic MAC, I installed your LINUX OS and it took me back to the old days  of running MS DOS.   Not  operator friendly at all!   Good for NERDS!

 
 On 9/28/2018 8:44 AM, Norman Wootan wrote:

 I have been running FireFox & Thuunderbird (Mozzila) for last 30 years! I guess there is an incompatibility with LINUX
 Sorry you miss out on so many post to the group!

 
 On 9/28/2018 2:43 AM, Eugen Ozon eozon@... mailto:eozon@... [EVGRAY] wrote:

   
 If you read posts in web page (browser) your yahoo session expire after a time. 
 You have to login again (sent user and password) otherwise your content will apear blank.
 
 
 
 On 09/28/2018 01:18 AM, iron1of1@... mailto:iron1of1@... [EVGRAY] wrote:

   

 Norman,
 

 About one in ten of your posts are just blank for me... and I am running Linux mint.
 

 Ron

 

 -- 
Eugen Ozon

Plan your work work your Plan
 ...Where there is a Will there is a Way...
The More you Know the more you Know you don't Know
Good, Better, Best, Never let it rest,  until the Good is the better,
and the Better is the Best,

Norm, That is crazy, terrifying and silly, they are putting distance
warnings on non-crt TV's- assuming that is an LCD...  I don't think I
like the TV looking at my eyes, creepy!


On 9/30/2018 6:03 AM, Norman Wootan [email protected] [EVGRAY] wrote:
>  
>
> George!  Funny that you brought this up, for I bought a Sony XBR 3D TV
> and set it up.  At night I would dose off while watching the TV and
> was awakened by the TV switching off.  After asking about how this
> worked, I was told that there is a camera that detects your eyes
> closing for an established time period that triggers the turn off of
> the set.  Same with the eyes to screen distance warning! it watches
> just how far your eyes are from the screen and triggers a hazard
> warning chime!
>
>
> On 9/30/2018 2:23 AM, george gray [email protected] [EVGRAY]
> wrote:
>>  
>> Mick,
>> It's not only the phones mate, but the latest TVs may have a camera
>> in them, so they can also watch you in your home, be careful.
>> George
>>
>> On Saturday, 29 September 2018, 2:30:04 pm AEST, Mick
>> [email protected] [EVGRAY] <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>
>>  
>>
>> George,
>>
>> Depends on what computer/phone one is using operating system etc.  I
>> can sniff attempts at opening ports that will not open and it is fun
>> to frustrate them.  The main two phones are Apple with IOS and
>> Android, these both listen as you say when they are "off"
>>
>> With my Linux phone I see all sorts of attempts that will not execute
>> both from the phone company proper, SMS commands, and Google
>> instantiating over IP.  Many phone calls now from weird numbers that
>> just ring and hang up trying to put the phone in back in listen
>> mode.  Part of the trick is to pull a sim card out of the phone it
>> came with and use in another brand and model without disclosing the
>> phone.  If it's not Andorid or IOS it really causes frustrations to
>> the listeners.
>>
>> Don't get me wrong, the best place for any cell phone is in a sealed
>> metal grounded trashcan, but aside from that total solution there are
>> some good halfway solutions.  I no longer receive ads for places I
>> drive to or shop at right during/after doing so as it always did with
>> the droid phone.
>>
>> I am not of the opinion there is nothing we can do so just roll over
>> and take it because they will win anyways.  Short of going to burner
>> phones this is kind of rewarding for the time being.
>>
>>
>> On 9/28/2018 7:19 PM, george gray [email protected]
>> <mailto:[email protected]> [EVGRAY] wrote:
>>>  
>>> Mick,
>>>
>>> They are listening to what you say even if your phone is turned
>>> off.  Some friends went out into a paddock and talked about stuff
>>> and when they came back their phones had ads for those particular
>>> things that they talked about.  They tried this many time and each
>>> time the same result with different products etc.
>>>
>>> The new appliances like TVs etc, can also listen to what you are
>>> saying in your house and with the 5G network and smart meters they
>>> may even know what you are thinking about LOL.
>>>
>>> George
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Saturday, 29 September 2018, 1:29:51 am AEST, Mick
>>> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> [EVGRAY]
>>> <[email protected]> <mailto:[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> Norm,
>>>
>>> Weird story, never heard that one.  Lately I am very unhappy with
>>> the lack of concern for privacy.  Most everyone carries a phone
>>> around that spies on them for corporations.  Google, Apple, Facebook
>>> and Twitter have become the defacto spy networks.  They all can
>>> connect to ones phone and use it's location, mic or camera at their
>>> discretion, they even tout these facts in their latest user
>>> agreements.  Even if one has the ability or smarts to lock this off
>>> the constitutional protections we are supposed to have from
>>> government are no longer in place for data networks.
>>>
>>> I think it is despicable what these companies do. specially Apple
>>> who has turned against musicians and uses Chinese slave labor at
>>> it's subsidiary companies like Foxconn building phones.  They force
>>> schoolkids to build phones for free.  After school the Chinese
>>> slaves must go work for Apple vampires or not graduate.
>>>
>>> Perhaps Ron has a good point in that he is exchanging the hassle and
>>> shortcomings of a non commercial OS in order to be secure.  I have
>>> switched to Ubuntu touch for my phone and can say many things dont
>>> work properly like bluetooth but I gladly forfeit these apps knowing
>>> I am not carrying a Trojan horse around.   Google android is like
>>> having the NSA in ones back pocket and Apple IOS is like having the
>>> Chinese MSS in ones pocket.  I am sure the two countries have
>>> intelligence sharing treaties as the fact China are commie murderers
>>> doesn't seem to phase anyone anymore.  The powers that be just want
>>> a world war with Russia a mostly free society while bending over for
>>> Chinese scum, I guess the pay is better.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 9/28/2018 7:18 AM, Norman Wootan [email protected]
>>> <mailto:[email protected]> [EVGRAY] wrote:
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>> Another note that Doug (Kone Head) will well remember goes back
>>>> several years when we had a real trouble maker on this site. It got
>>>> so bad that Kone had to break his saber and throw it out the gate
>>>> along with him. He was a real computer savy guy and right after his
>>>> being thrown out all of our YAHOO problems began!   DUH!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 9/28/2018 9:08 AM, Norman Wootan [email protected]
>>>> <mailto:[email protected]> [EVGRAY] wrote:
>>>>>  
>>>>>
>>>>> Another note about YAHOO, it is so FUCKED UP that Although I can
>>>>> post and receive messages within the group, I cannot access the
>>>>> files etc. cause YAHOO says I am not a member. When I try to
>>>>> register as a member it says CANNOT DO cause you are already a
>>>>> member.  Talked about a FUCKED UP System, you are looking at one!
>>>>>
>>>>> My TWO CENTS!  Norm
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 9/28/2018 8:49 AM, Norman Wootan [email protected]
>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]> [EVGRAY] wrote:
>>>>>>  
>>>>>>
>>>>>> BTW!  Back in the days when Microsoft was trying to get an OS to
>>>>>> mimic MAC, I installed your LINUX OS and it took me back to the
>>>>>> old days  of running MS DOS.   Not  operator friendly at all!  
>>>>>> Good for NERDS!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 9/28/2018 8:44 AM, Norman Wootan wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have been running FireFox & Thuunderbird (Mozzila) for last 30
>>>>>>> years! I guess there is an incompatibility with LINUX
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sorry you miss out on so many post to the group!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 9/28/2018 2:43 AM, Eugen Ozon [email protected]
>>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]> [EVGRAY] wrote:
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If you read posts in web page (browser) your yahoo session
>>>>>>>> expire after a time.
>>>>>>>> You have to login again (sent user and password) otherwise your
>>>>>>>> content will apear blank.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 09/28/2018 01:18 AM, [email protected]
>>>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]> [EVGRAY] wrote:
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Norman,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> About one in ten of your posts are just blank for me... and I
>>>>>>>>> am running Linux mint.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Ron
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>>>> Eugen Ozon
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Plan your work work your Plan
>>>>>>>>  ...Where there is a Will there is a Way...
>>>>>>>> The More you Know the more you Know you don't Know
>>>>>>>> Good, Better, Best, Never let it rest,  until the Good is the better,
>>>>>>>> and the Better is the Best, 
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
>

Mick,
It's not only the phones mate, but the latest TVs may have a camera in them, so they can also watch you in your home, be careful.
George

    On Saturday, 29 September 2018, 2:30:04 pm AEST, Mick [email protected] [EVGRAY] <[email protected]> wrote:  
 
     
 

George,
 
Depends on what computer/phone one is using operating system etc.  I can sniff attempts at opening ports that will not open and it is fun to frustrate them.  The main two phones are Apple with IOS and Android, these both listen as you say when they are "off" 
 
 
With my Linux phone I see all sorts of attempts that will not execute both from the phone company proper, SMS commands, and Google instantiating over IP.  Many phone calls now from weird numbers that just ring and hang up trying to put the phone in back in listen mode.  Part of the trick is to pull a sim card out of the phone it came with and use in another brand and model without disclosing the phone.  If it's not Andorid or IOS it really causes frustrations to the listeners.
 
Don't get me wrong, the best place for any cell phone is in a sealed metal grounded trashcan, but aside from that total solution there are some good halfway solutions.  I no longer receive ads for places I drive to or shop at right during/after doing so as it always did with the droid phone.
 
I am not of the opinion there is nothing we can do so just roll over and take it because they will win anyways.  Short of going to burner phones this is kind of rewarding for the time being.
 
 
 On 9/28/2018 7:19 PM, george gray [email protected] [EVGRAY] wrote:
  
      Mick, 
  They are listening to what you say even if your phone is turned off.  Some friends went out into a paddock and talked about stuff and when they came back their phones had ads for those particular things that  they talked about.  They tried this many time and each time the same result with different products etc. 
  The new appliances like TVs etc, can also listen to what you are saying in your house and with the 5G network and smart meters they may even know what you are thinking about LOL. 
  George
  
  
  
      On Saturday, 29 September 2018, 1:29:51 am AEST, Mick [email protected] [EVGRAY] <[email protected]> wrote:  
  
          
 
 
Norm,
 
Weird story, never heard that one.  Lately I am very unhappy with the lack of concern for privacy.  Most everyone carries a phone around that spies on them for corporations.  Google, Apple, Facebook and Twitter have become the defacto spy networks.  They all can connect to ones phone and use it's location, mic or camera at their discretion, they even tout these facts in their latest user agreements.  Even if one has the ability or smarts to lock this off the constitutional protections  we are supposed to have from government are no longer in place for data networks.
 
I think it is despicable what these companies do. specially Apple who has turned against musicians and uses  Chinese slave labor at it's subsidiary companies like Foxconn building phones.  They force schoolkids to build phones for free.  After school the Chinese slaves must go work for Apple vampires or not graduate.
 
 
Perhaps Ron has a good point in that he is exchanging the hassle and shortcomings of a non commercial OS in  order to be secure.  I have switched to Ubuntu touch for my phone and can say many things dont work properly like  bluetooth but I gladly forfeit these apps knowing I am not carrying a Trojan horse around.   Google android is like having the NSA in ones back pocket and Apple IOS is like having the Chinese MSS  in ones pocket.  I am sure the two countries have intelligence sharing treaties as the fact China are commie  murderers doesn't seem to phase anyone anymore.  The powers that be just want a world war with Russia a mostly free society while bending over for Chinese  scum, I guess the pay is better.
 

 
 
  On 9/28/2018 7:18 AM, Norman Wootan [email protected] [EVGRAY] wrote:
  
    
 
 
Another note that Doug (Kone Head) will well remember goes back several years when we had a real  trouble maker on this site. It got so bad that Kone had to break his saber and throw it out the gate along with him. He was a real computer savy guy and right after  his being thrown out all of our YAHOO problems began!   DUH!
 
 
 On 9/28/2018 9:08 AM, Norman Wootan [email protected] [EVGRAY] wrote:
  
    
 
 
Another note about YAHOO, it is so FUCKED UP that Although I can post and receive  messages within the group, I cannot access the files etc. cause YAHOO says I am not a member. When I try to register as a member it says CANNOT DO  cause you are already a member.  Talked about a FUCKED UP System, you are looking at one!
 
My TWO CENTS!  Norm
 
 
 On 9/28/2018 8:49 AM, Norman Wootan [email protected] [EVGRAY] wrote:
  
    
 
 
BTW!  Back in the days when Microsoft was trying to get an OS to mimic MAC,  I installed your LINUX OS and it took me back to the old days  of running MS DOS.   Not  operator friendly at all!   Good for NERDS!
 
 
 On 9/28/2018 8:44 AM, Norman Wootan wrote:
  
 
I have been running FireFox & Thuunderbird (Mozzila) for last 30 years! I  guess there is an incompatibility with LINUX
 
Sorry you miss out on so many post to the group!
 
 
 On 9/28/2018 2:43 AM, Eugen Ozon [email protected] [EVGRAY] wrote:
  
    
 
 If you read posts in web page (browser)  your yahoo session expire after a time. 
 You have to login again (sent user and  password) otherwise your content will apear blank.
 
 
 
 On 09/28/2018 01:18 AM, [email protected] [EVGRAY] wrote:
  
    

 
 Norman, 
  About one in ten of your posts are just  blank for me... and I am running Linux mint. 
  Ron  
 

 
 -- 
Eugen Ozon

Plan your work work your Plan
 ...Where there is a Will there is a Way...
The More you Know the more you Know you don't Know
Good, Better, Best, Never let it rest,  until the Good is the better,
and the Better is the Best,

George!  Funny that you brought this up, for I bought a Sony XBR 3D TV 
and set it up.  At night I would dose off while watching the TV and was 
awakened by the TV switching off.  After asking about how this worked, I 
was told that there is a camera that detects your eyes closing for an 
established time period that triggers the turn off of the set.  Same 
with the eyes to screen distance warning! it watches just how far your 
eyes are from the screen and triggers a hazard warning chime!


On 9/30/2018 2:23 AM, george gray [email protected] [EVGRAY] wrote:
> Mick,
> It's not only the phones mate, but the latest TVs may have a camera in 
> them, so they can also watch you in your home, be careful.
> George
>
> On Saturday, 29 September 2018, 2:30:04 pm AEST, Mick 
> [email protected] [EVGRAY] <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
> George,
>
> Depends on what computer/phone one is using operating system etc.  I 
> can sniff attempts at opening ports that will not open and it is fun 
> to frustrate them. The main two phones are Apple with IOS and Android, 
> these both listen as you say when they are "off"
>
> With my Linux phone I see all sorts of attempts that will not execute 
> both from the phone company proper, SMS commands, and Google 
> instantiating over IP.  Many phone calls now from weird numbers that 
> just ring and hang up trying to put the phone in back in listen mode.  
> Part of the trick is to pull a sim card out of the phone it came with 
> and use in another brand and model without disclosing the phone.  If 
> it's not Andorid or IOS it really causes frustrations to the listeners.
>
> Don't get me wrong, the best place for any cell phone is in a sealed 
> metal grounded trashcan, but aside from that total solution there are 
> some good halfway solutions.  I no longer receive ads for places I 
> drive to or shop at right during/after doing so as it always did with 
> the droid phone.
>
> I am not of the opinion there is nothing we can do so just roll over 
> and take it because they will win anyways. Short of going to burner 
> phones this is kind of rewarding for the time being.
>
>
> On 9/28/2018 7:19 PM, george gray [email protected] 
> <mailto:[email protected]> [EVGRAY] wrote:
>> Mick,
>>
>> They are listening to what you say even if your phone is turned off.  
>> Some friends went out into a paddock and talked about stuff and when 
>> they came back their phones had ads for those particular things that 
>> they talked about.  They tried this many time and each time the same 
>> result with different products etc.
>>
>> The new appliances like TVs etc, can also listen to what you are 
>> saying in your house and with the 5G network and smart meters they 
>> may even know what you are thinking about LOL.
>>
>> George
>>
>>
>>
>> On Saturday, 29 September 2018, 1:29:51 am AEST, Mick 
>> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> [EVGRAY] 
>> <[email protected]> <mailto:[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Norm,
>>
>> Weird story, never heard that one.  Lately I am very unhappy with the 
>> lack of concern for privacy.  Most everyone carries a phone around 
>> that spies on them for corporations. Google, Apple, Facebook and 
>> Twitter have become the defacto spy networks.  They all can connect 
>> to ones phone and use it's location, mic or camera at their 
>> discretion, they even tout these facts in their latest user 
>> agreements. Even if one has the ability or smarts to lock this off 
>> the constitutional protections we are supposed to have from 
>> government are no longer in place for data networks.
>>
>> I think it is despicable what these companies do. specially Apple who 
>> has turned against musicians and uses Chinese slave labor at it's 
>> subsidiary companies like Foxconn building phones.  They force 
>> schoolkids to build phones for free.  After school the Chinese slaves 
>> must go work for Apple vampires or not graduate.
>>
>> Perhaps Ron has a good point in that he is exchanging the hassle and 
>> shortcomings of a non commercial OS in order to be secure.  I have 
>> switched to Ubuntu touch for my phone and can say many things dont 
>> work properly like bluetooth but I gladly forfeit these apps knowing 
>> I am not carrying a Trojan horse around.   Google android is like 
>> having the NSA in ones back pocket and Apple IOS is like having the 
>> Chinese MSS in ones pocket.  I am sure the two countries have 
>> intelligence sharing treaties as the fact China are commie murderers 
>> doesn't seem to phase anyone anymore.  The powers that be just want a 
>> world war with Russia a mostly free society while bending over for 
>> Chinese scum, I guess the pay is better.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 9/28/2018 7:18 AM, Norman Wootan [email protected] 
>> <mailto:[email protected]> [EVGRAY] wrote:
>>>
>>> Another note that Doug (Kone Head) will well remember goes back 
>>> several years when we had a real trouble maker on this site. It got 
>>> so bad that Kone had to break his saber and throw it out the gate 
>>> along with him. He was a real computer savy guy and right after his 
>>> being thrown out all of our YAHOO problems began!   DUH!
>>>
>>>
>>> On 9/28/2018 9:08 AM, Norman Wootan [email protected] 
>>> <mailto:[email protected]> [EVGRAY] wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Another note about YAHOO, it is so FUCKED UP that Although I can 
>>>> post and receive messages within the group, I cannot access the 
>>>> files etc. cause YAHOO says I am not a member. When I try to 
>>>> register as a member it says CANNOT DO cause you are already a 
>>>> member. Talked about a FUCKED UP System, you are looking at one!
>>>>
>>>> My TWO CENTS!  Norm
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 9/28/2018 8:49 AM, Norman Wootan [email protected] 
>>>> <mailto:[email protected]> [EVGRAY] wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> BTW!  Back in the days when Microsoft was trying to get an OS to 
>>>>> mimic MAC, I installed your LINUX OS and it took me back to the 
>>>>> old days  of running MS DOS.   Not operator friendly at all!   
>>>>> Good for NERDS!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 9/28/2018 8:44 AM, Norman Wootan wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have been running FireFox & Thuunderbird (Mozzila) for last 30 
>>>>>> years! I guess there is an incompatibility with LINUX
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sorry you miss out on so many post to the group!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 9/28/2018 2:43 AM, Eugen Ozon [email protected] 
>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]> [EVGRAY] wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If you read posts in web page (browser) your yahoo session 
>>>>>>> expire after a time.
>>>>>>> You have to login again (sent user and password) otherwise your 
>>>>>>> content will apear blank.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 09/28/2018 01:18 AM, [email protected] 
>>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]> [EVGRAY] wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Norman,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> About one in ten of your posts are just blank for me... and I 
>>>>>>>> am running Linux mint.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ron
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>>> Eugen Ozon
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Plan your work work your Plan
>>>>>>>   ...Where there is a Will there is a Way...
>>>>>>> The More you Know the more you Know you don't Know
>>>>>>> Good, Better, Best, Never let it rest,  until the Good is the better,
>>>>>>> and the Better is the Best,
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
>

MarkSolenoid buzzers running in an oil bath have to be low frequency, now don't they?Run them in series, separated by bridge rectifiers.A cheap and cheery source of LF.Cheers Warren
Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
 
  On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 at 2:37 PM, Mark Mansfield [email protected] [EVGRAY]<[email protected]> wrote:       

What Mick is talking about reminds me of the Extrema Patents where noise is added to a analog signal that then goes through a comparater and the output is averaged through a filter. The big advantage to the Extrema stuff is that by adding a small amount of noise to a already analog voice buried in the noise floor, you can increase the S/N ratio and can hear otherwise signals hidden in the noise. Something about the brain can understand patterns (such as speech) buried in the noise if a small amount of noise is added into it before going through the Extrema circuits. I still have the pcboard I made back in the 90's following their patents and other info from the developers of this process and it does work! I was listening to the "LOWFER" band at 160 to 190 khz and most guys ended up in the 189.xxx khz area of the band due to limits on antenna size (50 ft max length, height, total cylinder area of antenna) and the 1 watt max input requirements for final stage of transmitter. But the circuit did work great for this application. Now the US has added the 136khz and 530khz band to amateur radio which gets some back interested in LF transmit and receiving. If you haven't ever tried it, it presents challenges not to be had elsewhere on the spectrum! 
Also the Exrema circuits are very similiar to the Neurophone circuit of Pat Flanagan's where audio could be transmitted into the head and hear audio without going into the ear canel and has been show to work with totally deaf people. Flanagan's circuit used two piezo disc and a circuit very similar to transmit audio into the brain and the audio was transmitted in via a modulated carrier in the 20 to 50 khz range the piezo transducers were resonant at.
Needless to say, if you every listened to that LF band, you will know well what I speak of about the noise and lightning crashes all summer and just high noise level in general is due to many things such as a lot of noise was generated  from the harmonic radiation from tv flybacks where the fundimental frequency was 15.75 khz in US. They are mostly all gone now but there are still some holding out with their old CRT tv's (and CRT computer monitors) on the old NTSC standard which was shut off right after digital TV transmission begun. We are currently on the ATSC 1.0, which will soon be shut off (5 year clock started at CES in 02/18 this past early spring) and will be changed fully to ATSC 3.0 (which isn't backwards compatable with ATSC 1.0 standard of course, which all high def TV's in existance now will be obsolete, save for the existance of a 'gateway box' they say you will be able to buy for a couple hundred bucks, that will allow you to continue to use current 4K UHD TV you now have for a period of time but that is not slated to remain usable very long due to features embedded in ATSC 3.0 TV's that allow remote turn on during emergencies and two way interaction using 5G). Full switchover will happen in less than 5 years and ATSC 3.0 is going to be a worldwide standard, which has been in use in some foreign countries since before the 2016 Olympics which were broadcast in 8K High Def using ATSC 3.0). Samsung and LG have been making ATSC 3.0 tv's since 2015, but not in US and aren't slated to show up here for another year or two at the earliest asl inventories are depleated in worldwide warehouses. 
Damn, I got way off course from where I started!!!
Anyway look up the Extrema patents concerning how it works. If anyone needs patent numbers for it, let me know and I'll dig them out and post them...
Mark 
On Sep 29, 2018 7:29 AM, "Norman Wootan [email protected] [EVGRAY]" <[email protected]> wrote:

     
Mick! Apparently you did not read the article I sent to you!  I have 
analog to digital converters used to convert analog VHS tapes to digital 
files!

https://www.quora.com/Can-analog-signals-be-stored-in-a-memory-If-not-why 
Clearly states how the conversion works!

On 9/28/2018 5:02 PM, Mick [email protected] [EVGRAY] wrote:
> Analog is no saving grace as it is easily digitized.  Actually there 
> is a form of analog that can be stored as digital information and that 
> is direct stream digital.  It is similar to how a class D amp works 
> but instead of analog switching at each defined voltage level the 
> switching is digitally counted and memorized as a pulse stream.  I 
> call this digilog because audio recorded in this way can be played 
> back with a simple analog low pass filter.


   

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Mick! here is the Sony Bravia 3D TV that I have and it is just as 
capable as you desk top computer, in fact I have it on internet and do 
all my FB, E-mail and brousing while watching the TV. Even view all my 
photo albums I have on my cell phone since they are all networked!  NO 
PRIVACY!!

https://www.sony.com/electronics/3d-tvs

You can sit on end of bed and look at TV and distance warning will go 
off!  This feature was used for proper distance to view the 3D images in 
movie runs!


On 9/30/2018 9:21 AM, Mick [email protected] [EVGRAY] wrote:
>
> Norm, That is crazy, terrifying and silly, they are putting distance 
> warnings on non-crt TV's- assuming that is an LCD...  I don't think I 
> like the TV looking at my eyes, creepy!
>
>
> On 9/30/2018 6:03 AM, Norman Wootan [email protected] [EVGRAY] wrote:
>>
>> George!  Funny that you brought this up, for I bought a Sony XBR 3D 
>> TV and set it up.  At night I would dose off while watching the TV 
>> and was awakened by the TV switching off.  After asking about how 
>> this worked, I was told that there is a camera that detects your eyes 
>> closing for an established time period that triggers the turn off of 
>> the set.  Same with the eyes to screen distance warning! it watches 
>> just how far your eyes are from the screen and triggers a hazard 
>> warning chime!
>>
>>
>> On 9/30/2018 2:23 AM, george gray [email protected] [EVGRAY] 
>> wrote:
>>> Mick,
>>> It's not only the phones mate, but the latest TVs may have a camera 
>>> in them, so they can also watch you in your home, be careful.
>>> George
>>>
>>> On Saturday, 29 September 2018, 2:30:04 pm AEST, Mick 
>>> [email protected] [EVGRAY] <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> George,
>>>
>>> Depends on what computer/phone one is using operating system etc.  I 
>>> can sniff attempts at opening ports that will not open and it is fun 
>>> to frustrate them.  The main two phones are Apple with IOS and 
>>> Android, these both listen as you say when they are "off"
>>>
>>> With my Linux phone I see all sorts of attempts that will not 
>>> execute both from the phone company proper, SMS commands, and Google 
>>> instantiating over IP.  Many phone calls now from weird numbers that 
>>> just ring and hang up trying to put the phone in back in listen 
>>> mode.  Part of the trick is to pull a sim card out of the phone it 
>>> came with and use in another brand and model without disclosing the 
>>> phone.  If it's not Andorid or IOS it really causes frustrations to 
>>> the listeners.
>>>
>>> Don't get me wrong, the best place for any cell phone is in a sealed 
>>> metal grounded trashcan, but aside from that total solution there 
>>> are some good halfway solutions.  I no longer receive ads for places 
>>> I drive to or shop at right during/after doing so as it always did 
>>> with the droid phone.
>>>
>>> I am not of the opinion there is nothing we can do so just roll over 
>>> and take it because they will win anyways.  Short of going to burner 
>>> phones this is kind of rewarding for the time being.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 9/28/2018 7:19 PM, george gray [email protected] 
>>> <mailto:[email protected]> [EVGRAY] wrote:
>>>> Mick,
>>>>
>>>> They are listening to what you say even if your phone is turned 
>>>> off.  Some friends went out into a paddock and talked about stuff 
>>>> and when they came back their phones had ads for those particular 
>>>> things that they talked about.  They tried this many time and each 
>>>> time the same result with different products etc.
>>>>
>>>> The new appliances like TVs etc, can also listen to what you are 
>>>> saying in your house and with the 5G network and smart meters they 
>>>> may even know what you are thinking about LOL.
>>>>
>>>> George
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Saturday, 29 September 2018, 1:29:51 am AEST, Mick 
>>>> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> [EVGRAY] 
>>>> <[email protected]> <mailto:[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Norm,
>>>>
>>>> Weird story, never heard that one.  Lately I am very unhappy with 
>>>> the lack of concern for privacy.  Most everyone carries a phone 
>>>> around that spies on them for corporations. Google, Apple, Facebook 
>>>> and Twitter have become the defacto spy networks. They all can 
>>>> connect to ones phone and use it's location, mic or camera at their 
>>>> discretion, they even tout these facts in their latest user 
>>>> agreements. Even if one has the ability or smarts to lock this off 
>>>> the constitutional protections we are supposed to have from 
>>>> government are no longer in place for data networks.
>>>>
>>>> I think it is despicable what these companies do. specially Apple 
>>>> who has turned against musicians and uses Chinese slave labor at 
>>>> it's subsidiary companies like Foxconn building phones.  They force 
>>>> schoolkids to build phones for free. After school the Chinese 
>>>> slaves must go work for Apple vampires or not graduate.
>>>>
>>>> Perhaps Ron has a good point in that he is exchanging the hassle 
>>>> and shortcomings of a non commercial OS in order to be secure.  I 
>>>> have switched to Ubuntu touch for my phone and can say many things 
>>>> dont work properly like bluetooth but I gladly forfeit these apps 
>>>> knowing I am not carrying a Trojan horse around. Google android is 
>>>> like having the NSA in ones back pocket and Apple IOS is like 
>>>> having the Chinese MSS in ones pocket.  I am sure the two countries 
>>>> have intelligence sharing treaties as the fact China are commie 
>>>> murderers doesn't seem to phase anyone anymore.  The powers that be 
>>>> just want a world war with Russia a mostly free society while 
>>>> bending over for Chinese scum, I guess the pay is better.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 9/28/2018 7:18 AM, Norman Wootan [email protected] 
>>>> <mailto:[email protected]> [EVGRAY] wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Another note that Doug (Kone Head) will well remember goes back 
>>>>> several years when we had a real trouble maker on this site. It 
>>>>> got so bad that Kone had to break his saber and throw it out the 
>>>>> gate along with him. He was a real computer savy guy and right 
>>>>> after his being thrown out all of our YAHOO problems began!   DUH!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 9/28/2018 9:08 AM, Norman Wootan [email protected] 
>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]> [EVGRAY] wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Another note about YAHOO, it is so FUCKED UP that Although I can 
>>>>>> post and receive messages within the group, I cannot access the 
>>>>>> files etc. cause YAHOO says I am not a member. When I try to 
>>>>>> register as a member it says CANNOT DO cause you are already a 
>>>>>> member. Talked about a FUCKED UP System, you are looking at one!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My TWO CENTS!  Norm
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 9/28/2018 8:49 AM, Norman Wootan [email protected] 
>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]> [EVGRAY] wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> BTW!  Back in the days when Microsoft was trying to get an OS to 
>>>>>>> mimic MAC, I installed your LINUX OS and it took me back to the 
>>>>>>> old days  of running MS DOS.   Not operator friendly at all!   
>>>>>>> Good for NERDS!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 9/28/2018 8:44 AM, Norman Wootan wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I have been running FireFox & Thuunderbird (Mozzila) for last 
>>>>>>>> 30 years! I guess there is an incompatibility with LINUX
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sorry you miss out on so many post to the group!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 9/28/2018 2:43 AM, Eugen Ozon [email protected] 
>>>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]> [EVGRAY] wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> If you read posts in web page (browser) your yahoo session 
>>>>>>>>> expire after a time.
>>>>>>>>> You have to login again (sent user and password) otherwise 
>>>>>>>>> your content will apear blank.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 09/28/2018 01:18 AM, [email protected] 
>>>>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]> [EVGRAY] wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Norman,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> About one in ten of your posts are just blank for me... and I 
>>>>>>>>>> am running Linux mint.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Ron
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>>>>> Eugen Ozon
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Plan your work work your Plan
>>>>>>>>>   ...Where there is a Will there is a Way...
>>>>>>>>> The More you Know the more you Know you don't Know
>>>>>>>>> Good, Better, Best, Never let it rest,  until the Good is the better,
>>>>>>>>> and the Better is the Best,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
>

Another slant on this I was told to watch what I bought at the super market
that there putting micro transmitters in food like beans to track people
.!! No joke .that's got to be very small .like smaller that sand .
On Sep 30, 2018 11:57 AM, "Norman Wootan [email protected] [EVGRAY]" <
[email protected]> wrote:

>
>
> Mick! here is the Sony Bravia 3D TV that I have and it is just as capable
> as you desk top computer, in fact I have it on internet and do all my FB,
> E-mail and brousing while watching the TV. Even view all my photo albums I
> have on my cell phone since they are all networked!  NO PRIVACY!!
>
> https://www.sony.com/electronics/3d-tvs
>
> You can sit on end of bed and look at TV and distance warning will go
> off!  This feature was used for proper distance to view the 3D images in
> movie runs!
>
> On 9/30/2018 9:21 AM, Mick [email protected] [EVGRAY] wrote:
>
>
>
> Norm, That is crazy, terrifying and silly, they are putting distance
> warnings on non-crt TV's- assuming that is an LCD...  I don't think I like
> the TV looking at my eyes, creepy!
>
> On 9/30/2018 6:03 AM, Norman Wootan [email protected] [EVGRAY] wrote:
>
>
>
> George!  Funny that you brought this up, for I bought a Sony XBR 3D TV and
> set it up.  At night I would dose off while watching the TV and was
> awakened by the TV switching off.  After asking about how this worked, I
> was told that there is a camera that detects your eyes closing for an
> established time period that triggers the turn off of the set.  Same with
> the eyes to screen distance warning! it watches just how far your eyes are
> from the screen and triggers a hazard warning chime!
>
> On 9/30/2018 2:23 AM, george gray [email protected] [EVGRAY]
> wrote:
>
>
> Mick,
> It's not only the phones mate, but the latest TVs may have a camera in
> them, so they can also watch you in your home, be careful.
> George
>
> On Saturday, 29 September 2018, 2:30:04 pm AEST, Mick [email protected]
> [EVGRAY] <[email protected]> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> George,
>
> Depends on what computer/phone one is using operating system etc.  I can
> sniff attempts at opening ports that will not open and it is fun to
> frustrate them.  The main two phones are Apple with IOS and Android, these
> both listen as you say when they are "off"
>
> With my Linux phone I see all sorts of attempts that will not execute both
> from the phone company proper, SMS commands, and Google instantiating over
> IP.  Many phone calls now from weird numbers that just ring and hang up
> trying to put the phone in back in listen mode.  Part of the trick is to
> pull a sim card out of the phone it came with and use in another brand and
> model without disclosing the phone.  If it's not Andorid or IOS it really
> causes frustrations to the listeners.
>
> Don't get me wrong, the best place for any cell phone is in a sealed metal
> grounded trashcan, but aside from that total solution there are some good
> halfway solutions.  I no longer receive ads for places I drive to or shop
> at right during/after doing so as it always did with the droid phone.
>
> I am not of the opinion there is nothing we can do so just roll over and
> take it because they will win anyways.  Short of going to burner phones
> this is kind of rewarding for the time being.
>
> On 9/28/2018 7:19 PM, george gray [email protected] [EVGRAY]
> wrote:
>
>
> Mick,
>
> They are listening to what you say even if your phone is turned off.  Some
> friends went out into a paddock and talked about stuff and when they came
> back their phones had ads for those particular things that they talked
> about.  They tried this many time and each time the same result with
> different products etc.
>
> The new appliances like TVs etc, can also listen to what you are saying in
> your house and with the 5G network and smart meters they may even know what
> you are thinking about LOL.
>
> George
>
>
>
> On Saturday, 29 September 2018, 1:29:51 am AEST, Mick [email protected]
> [EVGRAY] <[email protected]> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Norm,
>
> Weird story, never heard that one.  Lately I am very unhappy with the lack
> of concern for privacy.  Most everyone carries a phone around that spies on
> them for corporations.  Google, Apple, Facebook and Twitter have become the
> defacto spy networks.  They all can connect to ones phone and use it's
> location, mic or camera at their discretion, they even tout these facts in
> their latest user agreements.  Even if one has the ability or smarts to
> lock this off the constitutional protections we are supposed to have from
> government are no longer in place for data networks.
>
> I think it is despicable what these companies do. specially Apple who has
> turned against musicians and uses Chinese slave labor at it's subsidiary
> companies like Foxconn building phones.  They force schoolkids to build
> phones for free.  After school the Chinese slaves must go work for Apple
> vampires or not graduate.
>
> Perhaps Ron has a good point in that he is exchanging the hassle and
> shortcomings of a non commercial OS in order to be secure.  I have switched
> to Ubuntu touch for my phone and can say many things dont work properly
> like bluetooth but I gladly forfeit these apps knowing I am not carrying a
> Trojan horse around.   Google android is like having the NSA in ones back
> pocket and Apple IOS is like having the Chinese MSS in ones pocket.  I am
> sure the two countries have intelligence sharing treaties as the fact China
> are commie murderers doesn't seem to phase anyone anymore.  The powers that
> be just want a world war with Russia a mostly free society while bending
> over for Chinese scum, I guess the pay is better.
>
>
>
> On 9/28/2018 7:18 AM, Norman Wootan [email protected] [EVGRAY] wrote:
>
>
>
> Another note that Doug (Kone Head) will well remember goes back several
> years when we had a real trouble maker on this site. It got so bad that
> Kone had to break his saber and throw it out the gate along with him. He
> was a real computer savy guy and right after his being thrown out all of
> our YAHOO problems began!   DUH!
>
> On 9/28/2018 9:08 AM, Norman Wootan [email protected] [EVGRAY] wrote:
>
>
>
> Another note about YAHOO, it is so FUCKED UP that Although I can post and
> receive messages within the group, I cannot access the files etc. cause
> YAHOO says I am not a member. When I try to register as a member it says
> CANNOT DO cause you are already a member.  Talked about a FUCKED UP System,
> you are looking at one!
>
> My TWO CENTS!  Norm
>
> On 9/28/2018 8:49 AM, Norman Wootan [email protected] [EVGRAY] wrote:
>
>
>
> BTW!  Back in the days when Microsoft was trying to get an OS to mimic
> MAC, I installed your LINUX OS and it took me back to the old days  of
> running MS DOS.   Not  operator friendly at all!   Good for NERDS!
>
> On 9/28/2018 8:44 AM, Norman Wootan wrote:
>
> I have been running FireFox & Thuunderbird (Mozzila) for last 30 years! I
> guess there is an incompatibility with LINUX
>
> Sorry you miss out on so many post to the group!
>
> On 9/28/2018 2:43 AM, Eugen Ozon [email protected] [EVGRAY] wrote:
>
>
>
> If you read posts in web page (browser) your yahoo session expire after a
> time.
> You have to login again (sent user and password) otherwise your content
> will apear blank.
>
>
>
> On 09/28/2018 01:18 AM, [email protected] [EVGRAY] wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Norman,
>
> About one in ten of your posts are just blank for me... and I am running
> Linux mint.
>
> Ron
>
>
> --
> Eugen Ozon
>
> Plan your work work your Plan
>  ...Where there is a Will there is a Way...
> The More you Know the more you Know you don't Know
> Good, Better, Best, Never let it rest,  until the Good is the better,
> and the Better is the Best,
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 
>

Norm,
Thanks for getting back to me about that.
George

    On Sunday, 30 September 2018, 11:05:18 pm AEST, Norman Wootan [email protected] [EVGRAY] <[email protected]> wrote:  
 
     
 

George!  Funny that you brought this up, for I bought a Sony XBR 3D TV and set it up.  At night I would dose off while watching the TV and was awakened by the TV switching off.  After asking about how this worked, I was told that there is a camera that detects your eyes closing for an established time period that triggers the turn off of the set.  Same with the eyes to screen distance warning! it watches just how far your eyes are from the screen and triggers a hazard warning chime!
 
 
 On 9/30/2018 2:23 AM, george gray [email protected] [EVGRAY] wrote:
  
      Mick,
  It's not only the phones mate, but the latest TVs may have a camera in them, so they can also watch you in your home, be careful.
  George
  
      On Saturday, 29 September 2018, 2:30:04 pm AEST, Mick [email protected] [EVGRAY] <[email protected]> wrote:  
  
          
 
 
George,
 
Depends on what computer/phone one is using operating system etc.  I can sniff attempts at opening ports that will not open and it is fun to frustrate them.  The main two phones are Apple with IOS and Android, these both listen as you say when they are "off" 
 
 
With my Linux phone I see all sorts of attempts that will not execute both from the phone company proper, SMS commands, and Google instantiating over IP.  Many phone calls now from weird numbers that just ring and hang up trying to put the  phone in back in listen mode.  Part of the trick is to pull a sim card out of the phone it came with and use in another brand and model without disclosing the phone.  If it's not Andorid or IOS it really causes frustrations to the listeners.
 
Don't get me wrong, the best place for any cell phone is in a sealed metal grounded trashcan, but aside from that  total solution there are some good halfway solutions.  I no longer receive ads for places I drive to or shop at right during/after doing so as it always  did with the droid phone.
 
I am not of the opinion there is nothing we can do so just roll over and take it because they will win anyways.  Short of going to burner phones this is kind of rewarding for the time being.
 
 
  On 9/28/2018 7:19 PM, george gray [email protected] [EVGRAY] wrote:
  
      Mick, 
  They are listening to what you say even if your phone is turned off.  Some friends went out into a paddock and talked about stuff and when they came  back their phones had ads for those particular things that they talked about.  They tried this many time and each time the same result with different  products etc. 
  The new appliances like TVs etc, can also listen to what you are saying in your house  and with the 5G network and smart meters they may even know what you are thinking about LOL. 
  George
  
  
  
      On Saturday, 29 September 2018, 1:29:51 am AEST, Mick [email protected] [EVGRAY] <[email protected]> wrote:  
  
          
 
 
Norm,
 
Weird story, never heard that one.  Lately I am very unhappy with the lack of  concern for privacy.  Most everyone carries a phone around  that spies on them for corporations.  Google, Apple, Facebook and  Twitter have become the defacto spy  networks.  They all can connect to ones phone  and use it's location, mic or camera at their discretion, they even tout these  facts in their latest user agreements.  Even if one has the ability or  smarts to lock this off the constitutional  protections we are supposed to  have from government are no longer in  place for data networks.
 
I think it is despicable what these companies  do. specially Apple who has turned against musicians and uses Chinese  slave labor at it's subsidiary companies like Foxconn building phones.  They force schoolkids to build phones  for free.  After school the Chinese slaves  must go work for Apple vampires or not graduate.
 
 
Perhaps Ron has a good point in that he is  exchanging the hassle and shortcomings of a non commercial OS in order to  be secure.  I have switched to Ubuntu touch for  my phone and can say many things dont work properly like bluetooth but I  gladly forfeit these apps knowing I am not  carrying a Trojan horse  around.   Google android is like having the NSA  in ones back pocket and Apple IOS is like having the Chinese MSS in  ones pocket.  I am sure the two countries have  intelligence sharing treaties as the fact  China are commie murderers  doesn't seem to phase anyone anymore.  The powers that be just want a  world war with Russia a mostly free society  while bending over for Chinese  scum, I guess the pay is better.
 

 
 
  On 9/28/2018 7:18 AM, Norman  Wootan [email protected] [EVGRAY] wrote:
  
    
 
 
Another note that Doug (Kone Head)  will well remember goes back several years when we had a real  trouble maker on this site. It got so bad  that Kone had to break his  saber and throw it out the gate along  with him. He was a real  computer savy guy and right after his  being thrown out all of our  YAHOO problems began!   DUH!
 
 
 On 9/28/2018 9:08 AM, Norman  Wootan [email protected] [EVGRAY] wrote:
  
    
 
 
Another note about YAHOO, it is  so FUCKED UP that Although I can post and receive messages  within the group, I cannot access  the files etc. cause YAHOO  says I am not a member. When I try to  register as a member it says  CANNOT DO cause you are already a  member.  Talked about a FUCKED UP  System, you are looking at one!
 
My TWO CENTS!  Norm
 
 
 On 9/28/2018 8:49 AM, Norman  Wootan [email protected] [EVGRAY] wrote:
  
    
 
 
BTW!  Back in the days when Microsoft  was trying to get an OS to mimic MAC, I installed your LINUX OS and  it took me back to the old days  of running MS DOS.   Not  operator friendly at  all!   Good for NERDS!
 
 
 On 9/28/2018 8:44 AM, Norman  Wootan wrote:
  
 
I have been running FireFox & Thuunderbird (Mozzila) for  last 30 years! I guess there is an  incompatibility with LINUX
 
Sorry you miss out on so many post to  the group!
 
 
 On 9/28/2018 2:43 AM, Eugen Ozon  [email protected] [EVGRAY] wrote:
  
    
 
 If you read posts in web page  (browser) your yahoo session expire after a time. 
 You have to login again  (sent user and password) otherwise your  content will apear blank.
 
 
 
 On 09/28/2018 01:18 AM, [email protected] [EVGRAY] wrote:
  
    

 
 Norman, 
  About one in ten of your posts are just  blank for me... and I am running Linux mint. 
  Ron  
 

 
 -- 
Eugen Ozon

Plan your work work your Plan
 ...Where there is a Will there is a Way...
The More you Know the more you Know you don't Know
Good, Better, Best, Never let it rest,  until the Good is the better,
and the Better is the Best,

On Sat, Sep 29, 2018 at 2:37 PM Mark Mansfield [email protected]
[EVGRAY] <[email protected]> wrote:

> What Mick is talking about reminds me of the Extrema Patents where noise is added to a analog signal that then goes through a comparater and the output is averaged through a filter. The big advantage to the Extrema stuff is that by adding a small amount of noise

Out of bound noise, same as adding dither to a ADC to increase resolution.

"Overcoming Converter Nonlinearities with Dither"
http://www.analog.com/media/en/technical-documentation/application-notes/319765654AN-410.pdf
http://www.analog.com/en/technical-articles/internal-dither-improves-high-speed-adc-sfdr-performance.html
http://www.analog.com/media/en/technical-documentation/application-notes/AN-1446.pdf

Too the Extrema stuff specifically:

Extrema processing is covered by US patent 4,545,065.
Defunct Extrema Systems International Corporation (XSI);  Dr. Arie Visser.

The Extrema theory of human perception assumes that the ear distinguishes sounds
not by amplitude or frequency, but rather by timing and context.
Specifically, the ear
extracts only certain features of a signal- that is, the local minima
and maxima, or the extrema and passes to the brain the instances at
which they occur.  It doesn't matter whether it is minima or maxima, just
the change in direction of the signal is important.

Related:
        [14] "Human And Machine Intelligence: An Evolutionary View"
by Robert H. McEachern. ISBN 0-88247-956-3 Library of Congress Card
Catalog Number: 92-56391; R & E Publishers, P.O. Box 2008,
Saratoga, CA 95070

        [15] "Speech Information Extractor" by Robert H. McEachern.
US Patent 5,214,708; May 25, 1993.

        [16] "Proceedings of the IEEE-SP International Symposium on
Time-Frequency and Time-Scale Analysis" October 4-6, 1992 Victoria,
BC, Canada.  IEEE Catalog Number: 92TH0478-8, ISBN: 0-7803-0805-0,
Library of Congress Number: 92-56487.  Several papers are relevant
but "Sound Event Detection Using Cochlea Information" by Z. Kac'i'
and B. Horvat are of particular interest.  Also "A Theory For An
Acoustic Perception System" by John K. Bates.

> Something about the brain can understand patterns (such as speech) buried in the noise if a small amount of noise is added into it before going through the Extrema circuits.

I have been collecting reference about Neural 'Noise' for a while, you
can find those here:
http://bpaddock.com/doku.php/mind/futureisthen

Just added this reference as well:

http://www.caltech.edu/news/time-traveling-illusion-tricks-brain-84009

"What you saw is what you will hear: Two new illusions with
audiovisual postdictive effects":

https://authors.library.caltech.edu/90151/