Mystery machine

Hi Heinz-Dieter,
der Rene+ ist nicht wirklich neu und ehrlich gesagt teste ich gerade auch nicht. Ich würde echt vorschlagen wir verwenden erst mal ein konventionelles Ladegerät und sobald die Batterien schwächer werden, gibt es zwei Möglichkeiten für die Nutzer, entweder sie besorgen sich ein handelsübliches Pulsladegerät um Ihre sulfatierten Batterien wieder aufzufrischen oder sie bauen den Rene+ für ein Appel und ein Ei oder wir ergänzen den parallel an einem Standardladegerät, um die Desulfatierung zu erreichen. Die Entwicklung eines kompletten Ladegeräts mit Rene+ Technik wäre super, sollte uns aber nicht daran hindern, die Speichereinheit und den PowerTower :) mit etablierten Techniken anzubieten, wo die Solarförderung bald ausläuft, oder? Wenn das funzt wäre ein eigenes, effizienzmäßig überlegenes Pulsladegerät für die Speichereinheit eine tolle Weiterentwicklung, die man auch als Sologerät anbieten könnte. 

Im Moment brenne ich auch darauf endlich mal Zeit zu finden die PWM3G auszuprobieren, um evtl. ultra kurze starke Schaltpulse zu erreichen. 

Optimal wäre für diese Methode der Energieauskopplung eigentlich folgender "Schalter" :): Krytron 

Ich zitiere: "for use as a very high-speed switch ... handle very high voltages and currents (reaching several kilovolts and several kiloamperes) ... developed for radar"

Das sind die militärischen kalt Kathoden Trioden, welche für den Normalbürger nicht ohne Grund zensiert sind :).
Besten GrußLars


    On Friday, June 8, 2018, 1:03:52 PM GMT+2, 'HD Zeddies' [email protected] [EVGRAY] <[email protected]> wrote:  
 
     


Hi Kone and Hector,

  

Thomas Frei and me we are discussing about  a power solution to power a house. It is do-able and it is a very good solution. We have planned it with special inverters to work with or without gridconnection. Without grid connection we need another energy source like a blockheating machine for security. Then you can be totally independent. 

Off-grid with only 2000W is maybe possible in South-America but not workable in Germany, because of the long winter period. 

The storage of energy is very interesting with car batteries., they are not expensive and have a good energy storage. The problem is, that you should never take more then 30% of the stored energy, because this will kill them in a short time. If you would calculate with special solar batteries or batteries from electric fork-lifters the life time can be extended even if you discharge 50%. 

Another thing is the charging technology. Thomas tests a new technology to extend lifetime of batteries.

  

HD

  

Von: [email protected] <[email protected]> 
Gesendet: Freitag, 8. Juni 2018 06:52
An: [email protected]
Betreff: Re: [EVGRAY] Re: Mystery machine

  

  

Hi Hector
Tbat sounds like excellent do'- able and practical ptoject..
Something also that needs prototype model homes funded also perhaps conversion kits for existing homes as well.as how-to books for do it your selfers
All this would be great crowd source campaign for funding of it all...somethong most any of billiond of people on inte internet would be happy to put 10 or 20 or 200 dollars into to help see it thtough
Good idea go for it
Kone

Kone, 

 At one point when I asked about disecting the SSR you said something about Mosfets working in only one direction.
 

 Did you mean that they can source bidirectionally but only sink one polarity?

Hi Mick,

MOSFETs conduct in both directions when turned on. But because of the intrinsic parasitic diode in parallel with the drain source channel they're always conducting through that diode when it's forward biased. Putting two MOSFETs back to back will make them work as an AC switch. Connect the sources together and the gates together and the drains will conduct in both directions while one of the diodes will always block when the MOSFETs are in the off state.

Regards
Ole
 

---In [email protected], <mkjekyll@...> wrote :

 Kone, 

 At one point when I asked about disecting the SSR you said something about Mosfets working in only one direction.
 

 Did you mean that they can source bidirectionally but only sink one polarity?

FLA batteries waste more than 100% power during the chem. cycle. 
Always buy lithium chemisty cells. 

    On Saturday, June 9, 2018 4:37 PM, "[email protected] [EVGRAY]" <[email protected]> wrote:
 

     Kone,
At one point when I asked about disecting the SSR you said something about Mosfets working in only one direction.
Did you mean that they can source bidirectionally but only sink one polarity?  #yiv7761131934 #yiv7761131934 -- #yiv7761131934ygrp-mkp {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:10px 0;padding:0 10px;}#yiv7761131934 #yiv7761131934ygrp-mkp hr {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;}#yiv7761131934 #yiv7761131934ygrp-mkp #yiv7761131934hd {color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:700;line-height:122%;margin:10px 0;}#yiv7761131934 #yiv7761131934ygrp-mkp #yiv7761131934ads {margin-bottom:10px;}#yiv7761131934 #yiv7761131934ygrp-mkp .yiv7761131934ad {padding:0 0;}#yiv7761131934 #yiv7761131934ygrp-mkp .yiv7761131934ad p {margin:0;}#yiv7761131934 #yiv7761131934ygrp-mkp .yiv7761131934ad a {color:#0000ff;text-decoration:none;}#yiv7761131934 #yiv7761131934ygrp-sponsor #yiv7761131934ygrp-lc {font-family:Arial;}#yiv7761131934 #yiv7761131934ygrp-sponsor #yiv7761131934ygrp-lc #yiv7761131934hd {margin:10px 0px;font-weight:700;font-size:78%;line-height:122%;}#yiv7761131934 #yiv7761131934ygrp-sponsor 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i forgot ,spiking type charging on fla cells is more than 100% percent.
it's hard to conv. solar charging to bedini , but may well worth the effort. 

    On Saturday, June 9, 2018 5:35 PM, Dave Muckerman <[email protected]> wrote:
 

 FLA batteries waste more than 100% power during the chem. cycle. 
Always buy lithium chemisty cells. 

    On Saturday, June 9, 2018 4:37 PM, "[email protected] [EVGRAY]" <[email protected]> wrote:
 

     Kone,
At one point when I asked about disecting the SSR you said something about Mosfets working in only one direction.
Did you mean that they can source bidirectionally but only sink one polarity?  #yiv5712061378 -- #yiv5712061378ygrp-mkp {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:10px 0;padding:0 10px;}#yiv5712061378 #yiv5712061378ygrp-mkp hr {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;}#yiv5712061378 #yiv5712061378ygrp-mkp #yiv5712061378hd {color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:700;line-height:122%;margin:10px 0;}#yiv5712061378 #yiv5712061378ygrp-mkp #yiv5712061378ads {margin-bottom:10px;}#yiv5712061378 #yiv5712061378ygrp-mkp .yiv5712061378ad {padding:0 0;}#yiv5712061378 #yiv5712061378ygrp-mkp .yiv5712061378ad p {margin:0;}#yiv5712061378 #yiv5712061378ygrp-mkp .yiv5712061378ad a {color:#0000ff;text-decoration:none;}#yiv5712061378 #yiv5712061378ygrp-sponsor #yiv5712061378ygrp-lc {font-family:Arial;}#yiv5712061378 #yiv5712061378ygrp-sponsor #yiv5712061378ygrp-lc #yiv5712061378hd {margin:10px 0px;font-weight:700;font-size:78%;line-height:122%;}#yiv5712061378 #yiv5712061378ygrp-sponsor #yiv5712061378ygrp-lc 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lipo  as older lithium type got dendrite problems ...
 

---In [email protected], <laser.rod@...> wrote :

 FLA batteries waste more than 100% power during the chem. cycle. 

 Always buy lithium chemisty cells.
 


 On Saturday, June 9, 2018 4:37 PM, "mkjekyll@... [EVGRAY]" <[email protected]> wrote:

 

   Kone,
 

 At one point when I asked about disecting the SSR you said something about Mosfets working in only one direction.
 

 Did you mean that they can source bidirectionally but only sink one polarity?

Dave, 

 Have you tried using the smart solar charge controllers with non solar DC source to determine if the same efficientcy charging gain happens with your batteries you notice with solar?

Kone, this is very good to know.  Yes Ole dissected the question very
well as usual.

I like to think of circuits as sink or source being the direction of
current is either supply or load.  Tends to make more sense when I think
this way and also consider impedance to the flow direction.  A mosfet in
a single ended configuration will supply music which is AC but will only
shut off in one direction so will not sink the current symmetrically.  A
good reason to operate them push pull.

However when dealing with music production air is asymmetric as
unlimited pressure can be created but vacuum is the limit of the
rarefaction side.


On 6/10/2018 1:43 AM, [email protected] [EVGRAY] wrote:
>  
>
> Hi Ole
>
> Also it is good practice to put a very fast suitable diode over each
> of the back to back mosfets, stretching from the source, going to the
> drain.
>
> If no diode there on each mosfet then the back to back diodes will
> tend to turn on "individually" rather than allowing AC flow to flow
> freely through the back to back bidirectionally connected diodes.
>
> This with peak coil shorting is important as during the switch closure
> is when the hyper AC ringing occurs and to keep it sustaining when
> switch is closed you need those diodes from source to drain.
>
> Kone
>
>

Hi Ole
 Also it is good practice to put a very fast suitable diode over each of the back to back mosfets, stretching from the source, going to the drain.
 If no diode there on each mosfet then the back to back diodes will tend to turn on "individually" rather than allowing AC flow to flow freely through the back to back bidirectionally connected diodes.
 This with peak coil shorting is important as during the switch closure is when the hyper AC ringing occurs and to keep it sustaining when switch is closed you need those diodes from source to drain.
 Kone

Hi Mick
 Not sure what you mean exactly by "sink and source" 
Maybe Ole's reply and my comments about the diodes from source to drain will answer your question not sure...
 Kone

Hi Dave
 I wonder it lithium types of batteries can also be charged 100 percent efficient too in some way....
 Also what about Alum-converted FLA (flooded lead acids)??? Do you think they could be spike charged too?
 I know Bedini was working with Alum-stuffed batteries but do not know more than that.
 Kone

Hi Everyone
 Here is Thomas Frei's translation to English::
 

 The Rene + is not really new and frankly I'm not testing either. I would really suggest we first use a conventional charger and as soon as the batteries become weaker, there are two possibilities for the users, either they get a commercially available pulse charger to restore their sulfated batteries To freshen up or you build the Rene + for an appel and an egg or we complement the parallel to a standard charger to achieve the desulfate. The development of a complete charger with Rene + Technik would be great, but should not prevent us from offering the storage unit and the power Tower:) with established techniques, where the solar support will soon expire, right? If the FUNZT would be a separate, efficiency-superior pulse charger for the storage unit a great advancement, which could also be offered as a Sologerät. 
 

 

 At the moment I also burn to finally time to find the PWM3G to try out

Hi Thomas and HD
 I would not suggest to use the Rene type battery charger design....
 I have built maybe 20 of them, sold some, gave some away for testing... they are very good chargers but could not see them be overunity consistently in how they would charge up lead acid large 12V golf cart type batteries.
 I would measure how many watts to charge up a battery from 11.7V to 13.8V in my testing, and would then run a load and measure how many watts the load would consume until the voltage in  battery dropped to 11.7V then would do another charge cycle like that.
 The load was incadescent 120V light bul run through an invertor, while the 11.7 was when the low voltage warning buzzer would go off on the invertor...
 The rene chargers are not di a "pure spike" charge to the lead acids, instead first the rene charger sends in a 18 to 20V pulse right through the battery, in a conventional forward charge that contains some amperage to it, and this forward charge behaves just like any battery charger.
 After the forward charge, then there is a backemf/recoil spike sent through the battery, this spike coming from the remaining 6 to 8 volts "leftover" from that initial forward pulse of 18 to 20v sent through the 12V battery...
 So that is how it works, it is half a conventional charger, half a spike charger...
 I do not think Lithium type batteries will receive a spike charge very well, in fact most probably very dangerous as they may explode....so these sorts of spike chargers are limited to lead acid type batteries.
 However if using Flooded lead acid batteries, such as golf cart type, and you instead use the "Bedini wheel" type of charger now you should get some good overunity results...as the current input to the bedini wheel chargers is very very low, under 100ma maybe only 20 or 30ma and the wheel spins lsow around 100rpm...here are some links to kits for them you can see the design pretty easy they say these are unavailable now....maybe they don't work right with the addition of 7 power winds and one trigger wind in the coil - usually a bedini wheel will have only one "power" wind...
 Also the fan on these is stupid idea I think if you want it to be a battery charger and nothing else....
 I would think one of these with a Styrofoam wheel - very very lightweight with magnetically floating bearings like the Mendocino wheel could operate on 10ma or so and 12V input which is next to nothing in power input....in meantime after 24 hours maybe 48 you can have a depleted big 80AH battery fully charged...
 here is the link to the bedini wheel kits:
 http://teslachargers.com/products/bedini-sg/bedini-sg-kits/ http://teslachargers.com/products/bedini-sg/bedini-sg-kits/

Hi Thomas and HD here is the lithium batteries Hector suggests:
 https://www.altestore.com/store/deep-cycle-batteries/lithium-batteries/simpliphi-power-smart-tech-lithium-batteries-p40602/#SIMPHI3_4-48V https://www.altestore.com/store/deep-cycle-batteries/lithium-batteries/simpliphi-power-smart-tech-lithium-batteries-p40602/#SIMPHI3_4-48V

Hi Mick
I get what you mean by sink and source now.
Ole did great job describing bidirectionally connected mosfets and so this will let them switch AC well and I guess in push pull configuration now so as you describe they will switch currents symmetrically but I added the extra info on the diodes from source to drain so they will also switch AC simultaneous which is important in stuff like peak coil sborting where hyper AC ringing is created during time of switch closure.
Kone

all you need is 2 power mosfets and a Photovoltaic Isolator PVI5080NPbF or 5050 and a resistor!
 output is ~up to 8uA v5-10 volts.
 

 I have yet to do the tests with AC, soon I hope..

Hi,
 

 Did you really mean u amps?
 

 How big is the resistor?
 

 Ron

Hi  Ron
 Here is the video link I am talking about..interesting how iron tube makes draw go down :
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-GZerEwObo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-GZerEwObo

Hi  Ron 
It was 5a analog meter in bedini video and it showed 100ma he put in iron tube core and amps dropped to zero ( on meter) 
He then says it is running on micro amps but does not show exactly what that is.
Regardless if showing zero on 5a meter or if only 5ma or whatever I was impressed with very low amp draw also putting in iron core drops it way down...still wondering your amp draw in video is all.
Kone

Hi Kone, 

 Found it... at 12 volts it was running on .35 amps (the H bridge version in the video)
 

 Ron