Winding BiTT with C shape winding tool

Hi Doug Ole guys, Here are the other 2 attachments for MOT style BITT running at 240V input.

Hi Ole, Thanks for great pics there.
 It didn't worry me about the correction so much.
 At least from you diagram I now understand how to connect the green feedback winding.

 Top to bottom in relation to the output coils 
 

 Gerry

Hi Kone,

The phase shift between the magnetic field of the primary to the secondary is very small compared to the frequency driving the primary. This phase shift is at its minimum when the transformer is at full load and the field of the secondary cancels the field of the primary. The inductance of the primary is canceled by the inductance of the secondary and thus no energy is stored in the core.

The magnetic field of the primary is canceled by the magnetic field of the secondary. But even though the fields cancels out and can't be measured as magnetic fields something is still there. This can be shown by using a transformer consisting of an EI-core where the E-part carries the primary and secondary windings and the I-part is placed loosely to close the magnetic path and also to be easy removed. When energizing the primary winding with the secondary winding open circuited the I-part is hard to remove because of the energizing magnetic field form primary current. It is a good idea to have an incandescent lamp in series to the primary as a simple current limiter. If removing the I-part the current is only limited by the lamp and the remaining small inductance left in the primary and its resistance.

If now loading the secondary the field of the secondary opposes the field of the primary. This makes it easy to remove the I-part of the EI-core. But doing this removal makes the current in the primary winding increase to the short circuit current limited by the lamp and almost no current flow in the secondary. The primary and secondary coils actually have a hard time seeing each other when the magnetic circuit is broken.. The conclusion is that the magnetic conductive path is necessary even when the magnetic fields cancel out each other. This could mean that there is a very small phase shift between the two magnetic fields in opposite direction or the magnetic field is actually made up of waves of very high frequency that just cancels out as standing waves. The domains or even the electron spin could still be acting like waves having microscopic wavelengths acting as standing waves (like in the Rhythmodynamics theory). Removing the magnetic conductive I-part of the EI-core prevents the standing waves from forming thus preventing communication between the two coils.

P.R. Jensen mentions that the primary of the UDT must be an LC-tank to have only reactive power driving it. Thus no real power is consumed even though the output from the secondaries are real (active) power. The compensation winding is necessary to compensate for voltage changes when the load power is changed.

Regards
Ole 

---In [email protected], <konehead@...> wrote :

 Hi Gerry
 Not comfusing at all in fact you explained clearly what I tried to describe in very confusing fashion -especially like that the drawing shows frozen in time all the particular components and forces  and reluctances and such ard their values are also frozen in time in only that particular timje-section of the sinewave...
 Some describe, like Naudin, the BiTT transformer as a delayed-lenz type, so I think this whole thing of the time it takes the mmf to travel through the various legs and obstrucions and easier pathways are the varialbles if the transformer works in not affecting primary reflectiomn when secondaries are load, or if transformer operates X3 overunity or X 39 overunity...
 ciao
 Kone

Hi Doug Ole guys, In the BITT circuit I was wondering is most of the losses only occur at low power levels.
 As I have never gotten OU out of it even though Lenz effect seems to go away.
 

 So I made up a simple (although not terrific) version out of some Microwave Oven Transformer (MOT) cores and coils.
 Tested at low signal inputs and also high 240V ac levels from car battery and inverter.
 My best results at 240Vac gave 2.91 Watts out for 2.78 Watts in.
 

 Other more typical & less than OU results are shown on the attached pics.
 The slightest error in the phase measurement makes a huge difference to the efficiency results.
 

 The primary for BIIT input I used was the High Voltage winding.
 The secondaries were two primary coils off MOT
 

 Yahoo doesn't want more than 2 attachments 
 will send 2nd email with other 2
 

 Gerry

Hi Gerry,

There is much noise in the current measurement. If measuring across a low resistance current shunt a 50 Ohm BNC feed through at the input of the scope and a 50 Ohm coaxial cable to the shunt resistor will remove much of the noise. As resistors generates a lot of noise the usually 1 MOhm impedance of scope inputs is too much impedance mismatch to a 50 Ohm cable (probe X1) like a short compared to the 1 MOhm input. This causes a lot of reflections along the cable which drowns the signal in noise. The 50 Ohm input absorbs the signal instead of reflecting it. Only the source end of the cable is then mismatched and thus will reflect signals coming from the scope input end where no signal is sent from so no or less noise is generated.

"The slightest error in the phase measurement makes a huge difference to the efficiency results."
And for calculating the power is needed a complete cycle neither more nor less. A rule of thumb is to average the power measurement over 20 cycles. Then the error is minimized if not having a full number of cycles to multiply.

The secondaries aren't wound close to the core. Bill Alek doesn't do that too. This will induce a field of opposite direction through the air part of the coil. This is like a secondary if the coil is used as a primary. It makes big stray fields into the ambient.

The phase shift could be that of a transformer at no load. Then it is acting just like an inductor. I.e. it's having pure reactive power.

Regards
Ole
 

---In [email protected], <smokyatgroups@...> wrote :

 Hi Doug Ole guys, In the BITT circuit I was wondering is most of the losses only occur at low power levels.
 As I have never gotten OU out of it even though Lenz effect seems to go away.
 

 So I made up a simple (although not terrific) version out of some Microwave Oven Transformer (MOT) cores and coils.
 Tested at low signal inputs and also high 240V ac levels from car battery and inverter.
 My best results at 240Vac gave 2.91 Watts out for 2.78 Watts in.
 

 Other more typical & less than OU results are shown on the attached pics.
 The slightest error in the phase measurement makes a huge difference to the efficiency results.
 

 The primary for BIIT input I used was the High Voltage winding.
 The secondaries were two primary coils off MOT
 

 Yahoo doesn't want more than 2 attachments 
 will send 2nd email with other 2
 

 Gerry

HI Gerry 
 I cant see anything - can you email attachments to me at [email protected]
 I tested my florist wire BiTT today, using the output of two in phase coils of my wooden muller generator - it worked terrible something is wrong! 
 As example, the two generator in series in phase Coils output 42VDC into 200uf cap through FWBR of 50V shottkys...with AC on meter, no caps or diodes they show 27Vac
 

 with 93 ohm resistor, and in DC to test power with that cap, I  get 350ma into resistor and 3Vdc across resistor for about a watt of power...rotor spinnin about 1200rpm and 8 magnets...
 I connected these coils straight into Bitt primary, no diodes or FWBR
 they make good AC even though magnets all N facing at least this is what we saw on scope in Germany a few months ago...
 

 Center primary on myBiTT is 58 ohms
 I get about .7Vac (point 7V) from one of my secondaries...didn't both to hook up other it is so bad....maybe litz wire is problem maybe florist wire lengths with their "breaks" in construction and not continuous wire all the way around is making very lousy transformer action...I think this might be it....don't know but there seems to be no transfer of power to secondaries...
 

 ciaoKone

Maybe tuning from prim to sec ? That will shut it down
On Feb 1, 2018 2:28 PM, "[email protected] [EVGRAY]" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>
>
> HI Gerry
>
> I cant see anything - can you email attachments to me at [email protected]
>
> I tested my florist wire BiTT today, using the output of two in phase
> coils of my wooden muller generator - it worked terrible something is
> wrong!
>
> As example, the two generator in series in phase Coils output 42VDC into
> 200uf cap through FWBR of 50V shottkys...with AC on meter, no caps or
> diodes they show 27Vac
>
>
> with 93 ohm resistor, and in DC to test power with that cap, I  get 350ma
> into resistor and 3Vdc across resistor for about a watt of power...rotor
> spinnin about 1200rpm and 8 magnets...
>
> I connected these coils straight into Bitt primary, no diodes or FWBR
>
> they make good AC even though magnets all N facing at least this is what
> we saw on scope in Germany a few months ago...
>
>
> Center primary on myBiTT is 58 ohms
>
> I get about .7Vac (point 7V) from one of my secondaries...didn't both to
> hook up other it is so bad....maybe litz wire is problem maybe florist wire
> lengths with their "breaks" in construction and not continuous wire all the
> way around is making very lousy transformer action...I think this might be
> it....don't know but there seems to be no transfer of power to
> secondaries...
>
>
> ciaoKone
>
>
> 
>

Hi Gerry
 I need to rewind the secondaries I think the litz wire is working terrible with its colth insulation could be the florist wire is no good just as well.
 Have to leave to Warsaw Poland today for 10 dasy as wife has USA visa interview there....
 ciaoKone

Hi Doug,
On your BITT just try shorting out one of the output coils to see if there
is an increase in output ac Volts on the opposite coil.
The ac Voltage should approximately double if not too much loss of flux
reflecting flux back to other side increases the path length cause it has
to make 2 trips.
Once over once back again.

This will confirm if the phasing is ok.

Then measure the input current and voltage across input coil.......whilst
having both output coils shorted out then open circuited.
The 'phase difference' between input volts & amps might vary but the input
current and voltage should not change very much.

With Naudins demo he gets less input current on load compared to no load.

This will confirm Anti Back emf or Anti Lenz effect.

Then knowing input volts amps and phase difference calculate input power
rms ...whilst loading both output coils BITT into various values of load
resistors.

Hi DougGood luck both of you in Warsaw.If Canada works in your agenda, we have room.Cheers Warren

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
 
  On Fri, Feb 2, 2018 at 3:00 AM, [email protected] [EVGRAY]<[email protected]> wrote:       


Hi Gerry

I need to rewind the secondaries I think the litz wire is working terrible with its colth insulation could be the florist wire is no good just as well.

Have to leave to Warsaw Poland today for 10 dasy as wife has USA visa interview there....

ciaoKone

  #yiv4784429123 #yiv4784429123 -- #yiv4784429123ygrp-mkp {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:10px 0;padding:0 10px;}#yiv4784429123 #yiv4784429123ygrp-mkp hr {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;}#yiv4784429123 #yiv4784429123ygrp-mkp #yiv4784429123hd {color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:700;line-height:122%;margin:10px 0;}#yiv4784429123 #yiv4784429123ygrp-mkp #yiv4784429123ads {margin-bottom:10px;}#yiv4784429123 #yiv4784429123ygrp-mkp .yiv4784429123ad {padding:0 0;}#yiv4784429123 #yiv4784429123ygrp-mkp .yiv4784429123ad p {margin:0;}#yiv4784429123 #yiv4784429123ygrp-mkp .yiv4784429123ad a {color:#0000ff;text-decoration:none;}#yiv4784429123 #yiv4784429123ygrp-sponsor #yiv4784429123ygrp-lc {font-family:Arial;}#yiv4784429123 #yiv4784429123ygrp-sponsor #yiv4784429123ygrp-lc #yiv4784429123hd {margin:10px 0px;font-weight:700;font-size:78%;line-height:122%;}#yiv4784429123 #yiv4784429123ygrp-sponsor #yiv4784429123ygrp-lc .yiv4784429123ad {margin-bottom:10px;padding:0 0;}#yiv4784429123 #yiv4784429123actions {font-family:Verdana;font-size:11px;padding:10px 0;}#yiv4784429123 #yiv4784429123activity {background-color:#e0ecee;float:left;font-family:Verdana;font-size:10px;padding:10px;}#yiv4784429123 #yiv4784429123activity span {font-weight:700;}#yiv4784429123 #yiv4784429123activity span:first-child {text-transform:uppercase;}#yiv4784429123 #yiv4784429123activity span a {color:#5085b6;text-decoration:none;}#yiv4784429123 #yiv4784429123activity span span {color:#ff7900;}#yiv4784429123 #yiv4784429123activity span .yiv4784429123underline {text-decoration:underline;}#yiv4784429123 .yiv4784429123attach {clear:both;display:table;font-family:Arial;font-size:12px;padding:10px 0;width:400px;}#yiv4784429123 .yiv4784429123attach div a {text-decoration:none;}#yiv4784429123 .yiv4784429123attach img {border:none;padding-right:5px;}#yiv4784429123 .yiv4784429123attach label {display:block;margin-bottom:5px;}#yiv4784429123 .yiv4784429123attach label a {text-decoration:none;}#yiv4784429123 blockquote {margin:0 0 0 4px;}#yiv4784429123 .yiv4784429123bold {font-family:Arial;font-size:13px;font-weight:700;}#yiv4784429123 .yiv4784429123bold a {text-decoration:none;}#yiv4784429123 dd.yiv4784429123last p a {font-family:Verdana;font-weight:700;}#yiv4784429123 dd.yiv4784429123last p span {margin-right:10px;font-family:Verdana;font-weight:700;}#yiv4784429123 dd.yiv4784429123last p span.yiv4784429123yshortcuts {margin-right:0;}#yiv4784429123 div.yiv4784429123attach-table div div a {text-decoration:none;}#yiv4784429123 div.yiv4784429123attach-table {width:400px;}#yiv4784429123 div.yiv4784429123file-title a, #yiv4784429123 div.yiv4784429123file-title a:active, #yiv4784429123 div.yiv4784429123file-title a:hover, #yiv4784429123 div.yiv4784429123file-title a:visited {text-decoration:none;}#yiv4784429123 div.yiv4784429123photo-title a, #yiv4784429123 div.yiv4784429123photo-title a:active, #yiv4784429123 div.yiv4784429123photo-title a:hover, #yiv4784429123 div.yiv4784429123photo-title a:visited {text-decoration:none;}#yiv4784429123 div#yiv4784429123ygrp-mlmsg #yiv4784429123ygrp-msg p a span.yiv4784429123yshortcuts {font-family:Verdana;font-size:10px;font-weight:normal;}#yiv4784429123 .yiv4784429123green {color:#628c2a;}#yiv4784429123 .yiv4784429123MsoNormal {margin:0 0 0 0;}#yiv4784429123 o {font-size:0;}#yiv4784429123 #yiv4784429123photos div {float:left;width:72px;}#yiv4784429123 #yiv4784429123photos div div {border:1px solid #666666;min-height:62px;overflow:hidden;width:62px;}#yiv4784429123 #yiv4784429123photos div label {color:#666666;font-size:10px;overflow:hidden;text-align:center;white-space:nowrap;width:64px;}#yiv4784429123 #yiv4784429123reco-category {font-size:77%;}#yiv4784429123 #yiv4784429123reco-desc {font-size:77%;}#yiv4784429123 .yiv4784429123replbq {margin:4px;}#yiv4784429123 #yiv4784429123ygrp-actbar div a:first-child {margin-right:2px;padding-right:5px;}#yiv4784429123 #yiv4784429123ygrp-mlmsg {font-size:13px;font-family:Arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif;}#yiv4784429123 #yiv4784429123ygrp-mlmsg table {font-size:inherit;font:100%;}#yiv4784429123 #yiv4784429123ygrp-mlmsg select, #yiv4784429123 input, #yiv4784429123 textarea {font:99% Arial, Helvetica, clean, sans-serif;}#yiv4784429123 #yiv4784429123ygrp-mlmsg pre, #yiv4784429123 code {font:115% monospace;}#yiv4784429123 #yiv4784429123ygrp-mlmsg * {line-height:1.22em;}#yiv4784429123 #yiv4784429123ygrp-mlmsg #yiv4784429123logo {padding-bottom:10px;}#yiv4784429123 #yiv4784429123ygrp-msg p a {font-family:Verdana;}#yiv4784429123 #yiv4784429123ygrp-msg p#yiv4784429123attach-count span {color:#1E66AE;font-weight:700;}#yiv4784429123 #yiv4784429123ygrp-reco #yiv4784429123reco-head {color:#ff7900;font-weight:700;}#yiv4784429123 #yiv4784429123ygrp-reco {margin-bottom:20px;padding:0px;}#yiv4784429123 #yiv4784429123ygrp-sponsor #yiv4784429123ov li a {font-size:130%;text-decoration:none;}#yiv4784429123 #yiv4784429123ygrp-sponsor #yiv4784429123ov li {font-size:77%;list-style-type:square;padding:6px 0;}#yiv4784429123 #yiv4784429123ygrp-sponsor #yiv4784429123ov ul {margin:0;padding:0 0 0 8px;}#yiv4784429123 #yiv4784429123ygrp-text {font-family:Georgia;}#yiv4784429123 #yiv4784429123ygrp-text p {margin:0 0 1em 0;}#yiv4784429123 #yiv4784429123ygrp-text tt {font-size:120%;}#yiv4784429123 #yiv4784429123ygrp-vital ul li:last-child {border-right:none !important;}#yiv4784429123

Good luck Doug! Have safe trip & hope all goes ok with interview.