Winding BiTT with C shape winding tool

Hi Kone,

"And my question is "what is it" that splits the backemf magnetic forces from the forward forces, and this split enables the backemf to take that lower resistance route back to the opposite secondary in the BiTT transformer? Maybe just the proper time-delay?"

As the flux prefers the path having the least reluctance the reflected flux from the secondaries tends to take the path through the outer ring instead of going back to the center leg. When the windings of the side legs are connected in series and having the same turn numbers they share the same current to generate the same magnetomotive force (mmf) in each side leg. When the side windings are put in phase (i.e. the dot end of one side connected to the no dot end of the other side) the reflected flux of one side leg reinforces the flux of the opposite leg. The secondary legs are in parallel with the primary leg but in series to each other current vise..

Consider the moment where the mmf of the primary (P) points up the flux also flows up (source) and divides equally to each of the secondaries (S1 and S2). With the winding direction shown the current enters the no dot end at the bottom (right hand rule). The generated current of the secondaries (when loaded) has their mmfs pointing up too to cancel the flux of the current from the primary (Lenz's law). The generated current in the secondaries has the current exit the no dot end to cancel the source flux of the primary winding (right hand rule). But as connected in series the current of one secondary enters the other secondary in the opposite direction to actually reinforce the flux of the opposite secondary. I.e. the opposite secondary sees the flux from the primary as well as the flux from its other secondary as being in phase. E.g. the Lenz generated flux of S1 flows up (its mmf points up) to tend to cancel the flux of the primary and then continues around the ring going down S2 (same direction as the flux from P). The same happens in the opposite direction from the other secondary S2.


The magnetic field moves at a finite speed slower in a magnetic core than through the air. My guess is that the waves making up the magnetic field which is coherent generated from the incredible number of charge carriers moving along the turns of a leg becomes coherent between the separate windings S1 and S2 sharing the same current. It's like LASER light. As the energy density is squared when the fields becomes coherent this could explain any excess energy or power output from the transformer.

One problem is that it is hard to tune the parameters for that OU effect. Any change in a parameter seems to make it go out of OU. I may have to redo my measurements with the bridged amplifier instead of the measurements done with the single ended amplifier. Distortion of the output signal by power supply pumping may cause the excess power output. At least this has to be known before making any claim valid. The problem is increasing input power to the amplifier when the reactive power to the transformer is increased. Reactive power should only take some initial amount of energy and enough real power to make up for any loss like resistance in the wires and connected components of the primary tank circuit and the amplifier itself.

 
Regards
Ole



 

---In [email protected], <konehead@...> wrote :

 Hi Gerry
 Yes I understand  Ole's drawings is half cycle frozen in time, that's what I meant by  it is DC (and half the AC cycle)
 Also understand what the circles represent, and the rectangular boxes....
 However what would be very interesting would be the actual polarity shift at the "zero-point", now frozen in time, and 5 dimensional drawing explaining what exaclu happens then...  Perhaps this is just a nano second in time, perhaps becomes negative time (warp) and is where a sort of vaccum is made and aether-energy pulls in from surrounding environment (or other dimension) who knows
 

 Anyways my question still is unanswered which is OK!
 And my question is "what is it" that splits the backemf magnetic forces from the forward forces, and this split enables the backemf to take that lower resistance route back to the opposite secondary in the BiTT transformer?
 Maybe just the proper time-delay?
 

 Also similar question is in  UDT or BiTT, just what is it that prevents backemf magnetic forces to reflect back to primary?....And this too, I think, would require a "split" of the backemf magnetic forces from the forward magnetic forces that they are inherently combined with?
 

 My guess still is that there is a collision at the three way junctions of the BiTT core next to the secondaries (four of these two at top two at bottom)
 Perhaps this collision occurs "naturally" because of the core design? (this would be  very convenient ! !)
 Maybe it depends on all the variables like frequency, inductance of coils, reluctance of core sections,, and particular resistive load to have "ttiming" conditions where this collision of forward and backward time-delayed forces collide and split the backemf into taking the alternate-route of lower resistance.....sorry about konehead-theory world....
 ciao
 Kone

Correction in red and blue in text.

Hi Kone,

"And my question is "what is it" that splits the backemf magnetic forces from the forward forces, and this split enables the backemf to take that lower resistance route back to the opposite secondary in the BiTT transformer? Maybe just the proper time-delay?"

As the flux prefers the path having the least reluctance the reflected flux from the secondaries tends to take the path through the outer ring instead of going back to the center leg. When the windings of the side legs are connected in series and having the same turn numbers they share the same current to generate the same magnetomotive force (mmf) in each side leg. When the side windings are put in phase correction they are in opposition to each other (i.e. the dot end of one side connected to the no dot end of the other side) the reflected flux of one side leg reinforces the flux of the opposite leg. The secondary legs are in parallel with the primary leg but in series to each other current vise.

Consider the moment where the mmf of the primary (P) points up the flux also flows up (source) and divides equally to each of the secondaries (S1 and S2). With the winding direction shown the current enters the no dot end at the bottom (right hand rule). The generated current of the secondaries (when loaded) has their mmfs pointing up too to cancel the flux of the current from the primary (Lenz's law). The generated current in the secondaries has the current exit the no dot end to cancel the source flux of the primary winding (right hand rule). But as connected in series the current of one secondary enters the other secondary in the opposite direction to actually reinforce the flux of the opposite secondary. I.e. the opposite secondary sees the flux from the primary as well as the flux from its other secondary as being in phase. E.g. the Lenz generated flux of S1 flows up (its mmf points up) to tend to cancel the flux of the primary and then continues around the ring going down S2 (same direction as the flux from P). The same happens in the opposite direction from the other secondary S2.


The magnetic field moves at a finite speed slower in a magnetic core than through the air. My guess is that the waves making up the magnetic field which is coherent generated from the incredible number of charge carriers moving along the turns of a leg becomes coherent between the separate windings S1 and S2 sharing the same current. It's like LASER light. As the energy density is squared when the fields becomes coherent this could explain any excess energy or power output from the transformer.

One problem is that it is hard to tune the parameters for that OU effect. Any change in a parameter seems to make it go out of OU. I may have to redo my measurements with the bridged amplifier instead of the measurements done with the single ended amplifier. Distortion of the output signal by power supply pumping may cause the excess power output. At least this has to be known before making any claim valid. The problem is increasing input power to the amplifier when the reactive power to the transformer is increased. Reactive power should only take some initial amount of energy and enough real power to make up for any loss like resistance in the wires and connected components of the primary tank circuit and the amplifier itself.

 
Regards
Ole



 

---In [email protected], <onielsen@...> wrote :

 Hi Kone,

"And my question is "what is it" that splits the backemf magnetic forces from the forward forces, and this split enables the backemf to take that lower resistance route back to the opposite secondary in the BiTT transformer? Maybe just the proper time-delay?"

As the flux prefers the path having the least reluctance the reflected flux from the secondaries tends to take the path through the outer ring instead of going back to the center leg. When the windings of the side legs are connected in series and having the same turn numbers they share the same current to generate the same magnetomotive force (mmf) in each side leg. When the side windings are put in phase (i.e. the dot end of one side connected to the no dot end of the other side) the reflected flux of one side leg reinforces the flux of the opposite leg. The secondary legs are in parallel with the primary leg but in series to each other current vise..

Consider the moment where the mmf of the primary (P) points up the flux also flows up (source) and divides equally to each of the secondaries (S1 and S2). With the winding direction shown the current enters the no dot end at the bottom (right hand rule). The generated current of the secondaries (when loaded) has their mmfs pointing up too to cancel the flux of the current from the primary (Lenz's law). The generated current in the secondaries has the current exit the no dot end to cancel the source flux of the primary winding (right hand rule). But as connected in series the current of one secondary enters the other secondary in the opposite direction to actually reinforce the flux of the opposite secondary. I.e. the opposite secondary sees the flux from the primary as well as the flux from its other secondary as being in phase. E.g. the Lenz generated flux of S1 flows up (its mmf points up) to tend to cancel the flux of the primary and then continues around the ring going down S2 (same direction as the flux from P). The same happens in the opposite direction from the other secondary S2.


The magnetic field moves at a finite speed slower in a magnetic core than through the air. My guess is that the waves making up the magnetic field which is coherent generated from the incredible number of charge carriers moving along the turns of a leg becomes coherent between the separate windings S1 and S2 sharing the same current. It's like LASER light. As the energy density is squared when the fields becomes coherent this could explain any excess energy or power output from the transformer.

One problem is that it is hard to tune the parameters for that OU effect. Any change in a parameter seems to make it go out of OU. I may have to redo my measurements with the bridged amplifier instead of the measurements done with the single ended amplifier. Distortion of the output signal by power supply pumping may cause the excess power output. At least this has to be known before making any claim valid. The problem is increasing input power to the amplifier when the reactive power to the transformer is increased. Reactive power should only take some initial amount of energy and enough real power to make up for any loss like resistance in the wires and connected components of the primary tank circuit and the amplifier itself.

 
Regards
Ole



 

---In [email protected], <konehead@...> wrote :

 Hi Gerry
 Yes I understand  Ole's drawings is half cycle frozen in time, that's what I meant by  it is DC (and half the AC cycle)
 Also understand what the circles represent, and the rectangular boxes....
 However what would be very interesting would be the actual polarity shift at the "zero-point", now frozen in time, and 5 dimensional drawing explaining what exaclu happens then...  Perhaps this is just a nano second in time, perhaps becomes negative time (warp) and is where a sort of vaccum is made and aether-energy pulls in from surrounding environment (or other dimension) who knows
 

 Anyways my question still is unanswered which is OK!
 And my question is "what is it" that splits the backemf magnetic forces from the forward forces, and this split enables the backemf to take that lower resistance route back to the opposite secondary in the BiTT transformer?
 Maybe just the proper time-delay?
 

 Also similar question is in  UDT or BiTT, just what is it that prevents backemf magnetic forces to reflect back to primary?....And this too, I think, would require a "split" of the backemf magnetic forces from the forward magnetic forces that they are inherently combined with?
 

 My guess still is that there is a collision at the three way junctions of the BiTT core next to the secondaries (four of these two at top two at bottom)
 Perhaps this collision occurs "naturally" because of the core design? (this would be  very convenient ! !)
 Maybe it depends on all the variables like frequency, inductance of coils, reluctance of core sections,, and particular resistive load to have "ttiming" conditions where this collision of forward and backward time-delayed forces collide and split the backemf into taking the alternate-route of lower resistance.....sorry about konehead-theory world....
 ciao
 Kone

Correction in red and blue in text.

Hi Kone,

"And my question is "what is it" that splits the backemf magnetic forces from the forward forces, and this split enables the backemf to take that lower resistance route back to the opposite secondary in the BiTT transformer? Maybe just the proper time-delay?"

As the flux prefers the path having the least reluctance the reflected flux from the secondaries tends to take the path through the outer ring instead of going back to the center leg. When the windings of the side legs are connected in series and having the same turn numbers they share the same current to generate the same magnetomotive force (mmf) in each side leg. When the side windings are put in phase correction they are in opposition to each other (i.e. the dot end of one side connected to the no dot end of the other side) the reflected flux of one side leg reinforces the flux of the opposite leg. The secondary legs are in parallel with the primary leg but in series to each other current vise.

Consider the moment where the mmf of the primary (P) points up the flux also flows up (source) and divides equally to each of the secondaries (S1 and S2). With the winding direction shown the current enters the no dot end at the bottom (right hand rule). The generated current of the secondaries (when loaded) has their mmfs pointing up too to cancel the flux of the current from the primary (Lenz's law). The generated current in the secondaries has the current exit the no dot end to cancel the source flux of the primary winding (right hand rule). But as connected in series the current of one secondary enters the other secondary in the opposite direction to actually reinforce the flux of the opposite secondary. I.e. the opposite secondary sees the flux from the primary as well as the flux from its other secondary as being in phase. E.g. the Lenz generated flux of S1 flows up (its mmf points up) to tend to cancel the flux of the primary and then continues around the ring going down S2 (same direction as the flux from P). The same happens in the opposite direction from the other secondary S2.


The magnetic field moves at a finite speed slower in a magnetic core than through the air. My guess is that the waves making up the magnetic field which is coherent generated from the incredible number of charge carriers moving along the turns of a leg becomes coherent between the separate windings S1 and S2 sharing the same current. It's like LASER light. As the energy density is squared when the fields becomes coherent this could explain any excess energy or power output from the transformer.

One problem is that it is hard to tune the parameters for that OU effect. Any change in a parameter seems to make it go out of OU. I may have to redo my measurements with the bridged amplifier instead of the measurements done with the single ended amplifier. Distortion of the output signal by power supply pumping may cause the excess power output. At least this has to be known before making any claim valid. The problem is increasing input power to the amplifier when the reactive power to the transformer is increased. Reactive power should only take some initial amount of energy and enough real power to make up for any loss like resistance in the wires and connected components of the primary tank circuit and the amplifier itself.

 
Regards
Ole

Hi Kone, Garry,

The reason for the correction is that the dot convention is at odd because of the different phase relationships. For a one phased transformer the dot convention tells that when the current enters a dot in a winding it exits the dot of the other windings. The windings are all wound in the same direction around the same leg (ring) and all windings have the dot at either the beginning or at the end of each winding. I.e. that's at the first (or last) layer end of each winding. For the UDT and BiTT (and the Bill Alek trafo and three legged trafos) this is true when seen from the primary. Each winding of the secondaries placed on other legs then has the current exit the dot end when entering the dot end of the primary winding. But the two secondaries are actually opposing each other when seen from their common ring (omitting the primary leg). Thus the dot convention is not correct when looking at only the secondaries alone. Current entering the dot end of one secondary (when used as a primary winding) will actually also enter the dot end of the other secondary when wound as shown in the figure.

Regards
Ole
 

---In [email protected], <onielsen@...> wrote :

 Correction in red and blue in text.

Hi Kone,

"And my question is "what is it" that splits the backemf magnetic forces from the forward forces, and this split enables the backemf to take that lower resistance route back to the opposite secondary in the BiTT transformer? Maybe just the proper time-delay?"

As the flux prefers the path having the least reluctance the reflected flux from the secondaries tends to take the path through the outer ring instead of going back to the center leg. When the windings of the side legs are connected in series and having the same turn numbers they share the same current to generate the same magnetomotive force (mmf) in each side leg. When the side windings are put in phase correction they are in opposition to each other (i.e. the dot end of one side connected to the no dot end of the other side) the reflected flux of one side leg reinforces the flux of the opposite leg. The secondary legs are in parallel with the primary leg but in series to each other current vise.

Consider the moment where the mmf of the primary (P) points up the flux also flows up (source) and divides equally to each of the secondaries (S1 and S2). With the winding direction shown the current enters the no dot end at the bottom (right hand rule). The generated current of the secondaries (when loaded) has their mmfs pointing up too to cancel the flux of the current from the primary (Lenz's law). The generated current in the secondaries has the current exit the no dot end to cancel the source flux of the primary winding (right hand rule). But as connected in series the current of one secondary enters the other secondary in the opposite direction to actually reinforce the flux of the opposite secondary. I.e. the opposite secondary sees the flux from the primary as well as the flux from its other secondary as being in phase. E.g. the Lenz generated flux of S1 flows up (its mmf points up) to tend to cancel the flux of the primary and then continues around the ring going down S2 (same direction as the flux from P). The same happens in the opposite direction from the other secondary S2.


The magnetic field moves at a finite speed slower in a magnetic core than through the air. My guess is that the waves making up the magnetic field which is coherent generated from the incredible number of charge carriers moving along the turns of a leg becomes coherent between the separate windings S1 and S2 sharing the same current. It's like LASER light. As the energy density is squared when the fields becomes coherent this could explain any excess energy or power output from the transformer.

One problem is that it is hard to tune the parameters for that OU effect. Any change in a parameter seems to make it go out of OU. I may have to redo my measurements with the bridged amplifier instead of the measurements done with the single ended amplifier. Distortion of the output signal by power supply pumping may cause the excess power output. At least this has to be known before making any claim valid. The problem is increasing input power to the amplifier when the reactive power to the transformer is increased. Reactive power should only take some initial amount of energy and enough real power to make up for any loss like resistance in the wires and connected components of the primary tank circuit and the amplifier itself.

 
Regards
Ole

Hi OLe
 Thanks for that correction, it got me thinking perhaps not so good thinking but got me thinking...
 as the secondaries being "out of phase" to each other would mean they would cancel the backemf forces, and have no way to generate real power too, but then in their relation to the primary, they are parallel, and "do"have the core;s magnetic force flow them...so this is the  in"First stage": of being induced by primary winds.,......but because the secondaries are connected  in series and out of phase, now no back emf is generated IN RELATION TO THE OPPOSITE SECONDARY,,,,,so backemf is eliminated and also no real power produced AT THIS TIME in the secondaris...
 ..but something else happens, and that is the relation of the extra thick transformer core legs top and bottom in the BiTT, and this allows backemf-free (which was just cancelled out in out of phase connection of the secondary windings)
 Ahd so mmf flows to both secondary legs on that straight across transformer leg with primary in middle of it...
 but now there is that "other" route, and it takes a little bit longer to travel that up and over (or down and over) route and this time delay works add the secondary to the opposite secopdary and of course bypassing the primary...
 so:
 first stage: primary induces mmf into both secondaries
 second stage: because of series out of phase connection between two secondaries, no backem forces created.
 third stage:secondaries still have had mmf flow through them, although their winding connections cancelled backem and also did not generate an real power "At this time" in the secondariesf...
 fourth stage:the mmf flow takes route of the top or bottom transforem thick and longer legs, and now power is created in both secondaries at once since the mmf flow puts the windings in phase to one another...
 sorry konehead'world theory again might have something to it...
 So now it is a trick of the connections of secondary winds, and the time delay of the mmf through the longer and thicker transformer legs in the Bitt, and not a collision-event that knocks the backemf sideways but maybe both might coexist in alternate reality thinking don't know...
 ciao
 Kone

Hi Kone, Garry,

The reason for the correction is that the dot convention is at odd because of the different phase relationships. For a one phased transformer the dot convention tells that when the current enters a dot in a winding it exits the dot of the other windings. The windings are all wound in the same direction around the same leg (ring) and all windings have the dot at either the beginning or at the end of each winding. I.e. that's at the first (or last) layer end of each winding. For the UDT and BiTT (and the Bill Alek trafo and three legged trafos) this is true when seen from the primary. Each winding of the secondaries placed on other legs then has the current exit the dot end when entering the dot end of the primary winding. But the two secondaries are actually opposing each other when seen from their common ring (omitting the primary leg). Thus the dot convention is not correct when looking at only the secondaries alone. Current entering the dot end of one secondary (when used as a primary winding) will actually also enter the dot end of the other secondary when wound as shown in the figure.

Regards
Ole

Hi Kone, Garry,

The reason for the correction is that the dot convention is at odd because of the different phase relationships. For a one phased transformer the dot convention tells that when the current enters a dot in a winding it exits the dot of the other windings. The windings are all wound in the same direction around the same leg (ring) and all windings have the dot at either the beginning or at the end of each winding. I.e. that's at the first (or last) layer end of each winding. For the UDT and BiTT (and the Bill Alek trafo and three legged trafos) this is true when seen from the primary. Each winding of the secondaries placed on other legs then has the current exit the dot end when entering the dot end of the primary winding. But the two secondaries are actually opposing each other when seen from their common ring (omitting the primary leg). Thus the dot convention is not correct when looking at only the secondaries alone. Current entering the dot end of one secondary (when used as a primary winding) will actually also enter the dot end of the other secondary when wound as shown in the figure.

Regards
Ole
 

---In [email protected], <onielsen@...> wrote :

 Correction in red and blue in text.

Hi Kone,

"And my question is "what is it" that splits the backemf magnetic forces from the forward forces, and this split enables the backemf to take that lower resistance route back to the opposite secondary in the BiTT transformer? Maybe just the proper time-delay?"

As the flux prefers the path having the least reluctance the reflected flux from the secondaries tends to take the path through the outer ring instead of going back to the center leg. When the windings of the side legs are connected in series and having the same turn numbers they share the same current to generate the same magnetomotive force (mmf) in each side leg. When the side windings are put in phase correction they are in opposition to each other (i.e. the dot end of one side connected to the no dot end of the other side) the reflected flux of one side leg reinforces the flux of the opposite leg. The secondary legs are in parallel with the primary leg but in series to each other current vise.

Consider the moment where the mmf of the primary (P) points up the flux also flows up (source) and divides equally to each of the secondaries (S1 and S2). With the winding direction shown the current enters the no dot end at the bottom (right hand rule). The generated current of the secondaries (when loaded) has their mmfs pointing up too to cancel the flux of the current from the primary (Lenz's law). The generated current in the secondaries has the current exit the no dot end to cancel the source flux of the primary winding (right hand rule). But as connected in series the current of one secondary enters the other secondary in the opposite direction to actually reinforce the flux of the opposite secondary. I.e. the opposite secondary sees the flux from the primary as well as the flux from its other secondary as being in phase. E.g. the Lenz generated flux of S1 flows up (its mmf points up) to tend to cancel the flux of the primary and then continues around the ring going down S2 (same direction as the flux from P). The same happens in the opposite direction from the other secondary S2.


The magnetic field moves at a finite speed slower in a magnetic core than through the air. My guess is that the waves making up the magnetic field which is coherent generated from the incredible number of charge carriers moving along the turns of a leg becomes coherent between the separate windings S1 and S2 sharing the same current. It's like LASER light. As the energy density is squared when the fields becomes coherent this could explain any excess energy or power output from the transformer.

One problem is that it is hard to tune the parameters for that OU effect. Any change in a parameter seems to make it go out of OU. I may have to redo my measurements with the bridged amplifier instead of the measurements done with the single ended amplifier. Distortion of the output signal by power supply pumping may cause the excess power output. At least this has to be known before making any claim valid. The problem is increasing input power to the amplifier when the reactive power to the transformer is increased. Reactive power should only take some initial amount of energy and enough real power to make up for any loss like resistance in the wires and connected components of the primary tank circuit and the amplifier itself.

 
Regards
Ole

Hi Kone, Garry,

The reason for the correction is that the dot convention is at odd because of the different phase relationships. For a one phased transformer the dot convention tells that when the current enters a dot in a winding it exits the dot of the other windings. The windings are all wound in the same direction around the same leg (ring) and all windings have the dot at either the beginning or at the end of each winding. I.e. that's at the first (or last) layer end of each winding. For the UDT and BiTT (and the Bill Alek trafo and three legged trafos) this is true when seen from the primary. Each winding of the secondaries placed on other legs then has the current exit the dot end when entering the dot end of the primary winding. But the two secondaries are actually opposing each other when seen from their common ring (omitting the primary leg). Thus the dot convention is not correct when looking at only the secondaries alone. Current entering the dot end of one secondary (when used as a primary winding) will actually also enter the dot end of the other secondary when wound as shown in the figure.

Regards
Ole
 

---In [email protected], <onielsen@...> wrote :

 Correction in red and blue in text.

Hi Kone,

"And my question is "what is it" that splits the backemf magnetic forces from the forward forces, and this split enables the backemf to take that lower resistance route back to the opposite secondary in the BiTT transformer? Maybe just the proper time-delay?"

As the flux prefers the path having the least reluctance the reflected flux from the secondaries tends to take the path through the outer ring instead of going back to the center leg. When the windings of the side legs are connected in series and having the same turn numbers they share the same current to generate the same magnetomotive force (mmf) in each side leg. When the side windings are put in phase correction they are in opposition to each other (i.e. the dot end of one side connected to the no dot end of the other side) the reflected flux of one side leg reinforces the flux of the opposite leg. The secondary legs are in parallel with the primary leg but in series to each other current vise.

Consider the moment where the mmf of the primary (P) points up the flux also flows up (source) and divides equally to each of the secondaries (S1 and S2). With the winding direction shown the current enters the no dot end at the bottom (right hand rule). The generated current of the secondaries (when loaded) has their mmfs pointing up too to cancel the flux of the current from the primary (Lenz's law). The generated current in the secondaries has the current exit the no dot end to cancel the source flux of the primary winding (right hand rule). But as connected in series the current of one secondary enters the other secondary in the opposite direction to actually reinforce the flux of the opposite secondary. I.e. the opposite secondary sees the flux from the primary as well as the flux from its other secondary as being in phase. E.g. the Lenz generated flux of S1 flows up (its mmf points up) to tend to cancel the flux of the primary and then continues around the ring going down S2 (same direction as the flux from P). The same happens in the opposite direction from the other secondary S2.


The magnetic field moves at a finite speed slower in a magnetic core than through the air. My guess is that the waves making up the magnetic field which is coherent generated from the incredible number of charge carriers moving along the turns of a leg becomes coherent between the separate windings S1 and S2 sharing the same current. It's like LASER light. As the energy density is squared when the fields becomes coherent this could explain any excess energy or power output from the transformer.

One problem is that it is hard to tune the parameters for that OU effect. Any change in a parameter seems to make it go out of OU. I may have to redo my measurements with the bridged amplifier instead of the measurements done with the single ended amplifier. Distortion of the output signal by power supply pumping may cause the excess power output. At least this has to be known before making any claim valid. The problem is increasing input power to the amplifier when the reactive power to the transformer is increased. Reactive power should only take some initial amount of energy and enough real power to make up for any loss like resistance in the wires and connected components of the primary tank circuit and the amplifier itself.

 
Regards
Ole

Hi Kone, Garry,

The reason for the correction is that the dot convention is at odd because of the different phase relationships. For a one phased transformer the dot convention tells that when the current enters a dot in a winding it exits the dot of the other windings. The windings are all wound in the same direction around the same leg (ring) and all windings have the dot at either the beginning or at the end of each winding. I.e. that's at the first (or last) layer end of each winding. For the UDT and BiTT (and the Bill Alek trafo and three legged trafos) this is true when seen from the primary. Each winding of the secondaries placed on other legs then has the current exit the dot end when entering the dot end of the primary winding. But the two secondaries are actually opposing each other when seen from their common ring (omitting the primary leg). Thus the dot convention is not correct when looking at only the secondaries alone. Current entering the dot end of one secondary (when used as a primary winding) will actually also enter the dot end of the other secondary when wound as shown in the figure.

Regards
Ole
 

---In [email protected], <onielsen@...> wrote :

 Correction in red and blue in text.

Hi Kone,

"And my question is "what is it" that splits the backemf magnetic forces from the forward forces, and this split enables the backemf to take that lower resistance route back to the opposite secondary in the BiTT transformer? Maybe just the proper time-delay?"

As the flux prefers the path having the least reluctance the reflected flux from the secondaries tends to take the path through the outer ring instead of going back to the center leg. When the windings of the side legs are connected in series and having the same turn numbers they share the same current to generate the same magnetomotive force (mmf) in each side leg. When the side windings are put in phase correction they are in opposition to each other (i.e. the dot end of one side connected to the no dot end of the other side) the reflected flux of one side leg reinforces the flux of the opposite leg. The secondary legs are in parallel with the primary leg but in series to each other current vise.

Consider the moment where the mmf of the primary (P) points up the flux also flows up (source) and divides equally to each of the secondaries (S1 and S2). With the winding direction shown the current enters the no dot end at the bottom (right hand rule). The generated current of the secondaries (when loaded) has their mmfs pointing up too to cancel the flux of the current from the primary (Lenz's law). The generated current in the secondaries has the current exit the no dot end to cancel the source flux of the primary winding (right hand rule). But as connected in series the current of one secondary enters the other secondary in the opposite direction to actually reinforce the flux of the opposite secondary. I.e. the opposite secondary sees the flux from the primary as well as the flux from its other secondary as being in phase. E.g. the Lenz generated flux of S1 flows up (its mmf points up) to tend to cancel the flux of the primary and then continues around the ring going down S2 (same direction as the flux from P). The same happens in the opposite direction from the other secondary S2.


The magnetic field moves at a finite speed slower in a magnetic core than through the air. My guess is that the waves making up the magnetic field which is coherent generated from the incredible number of charge carriers moving along the turns of a leg becomes coherent between the separate windings S1 and S2 sharing the same current. It's like LASER light. As the energy density is squared when the fields becomes coherent this could explain any excess energy or power output from the transformer.

One problem is that it is hard to tune the parameters for that OU effect. Any change in a parameter seems to make it go out of OU. I may have to redo my measurements with the bridged amplifier instead of the measurements done with the single ended amplifier. Distortion of the output signal by power supply pumping may cause the excess power output. At least this has to be known before making any claim valid. The problem is increasing input power to the amplifier when the reactive power to the transformer is increased. Reactive power should only take some initial amount of energy and enough real power to make up for any loss like resistance in the wires and connected components of the primary tank circuit and the amplifier itself.

 
Regards
Ole

Hi GErry
 OK so magnetic forces can travel in two directions at once, sharing the same core?
 This goes against my twisted logic - as I have always thought like electrical flow the "big fish consumes the little fish" so if there is dominate strength and flow of electrical (and mmf) going one way, then that is the way it all goes and it just all gets consumed and swept along, like snowball consuming all in its path.
 The amount of backemf in the way will cause more resistance, OK, it will "slow" the movement, but the movement itself still all goes one way (I think so anyways but what do I know)
 

 "backemf" (or backmmf) to me is something inherent and locked tight with forward emf (or mmf) and just cannot be separated and is impossible or maybe it is possible to at least shove it sideways?
 ciaoKone

Hi Kone, Garry,

The reason for the correction is that the dot convention is at odd because of the different phase relationships. For a one phased transformer the dot convention tells that when the current enters a dot in a winding it exits the dot of the other windings. The windings are all wound in the same direction around the same leg (ring) and all windings have the dot at either the beginning or at the end of each winding. I.e. that's at the first (or last) layer end of each winding. For the UDT and BiTT (and the Bill Alek trafo and three legged trafos) this is true when seen from the primary. Each winding of the secondaries placed on other legs then has the current exit the dot end when entering the dot end of the primary winding. But the two secondaries are actually opposing each other when seen from their common ring (omitting the primary leg). Thus the dot convention is not correct when looking at only the secondaries alone. Current entering the dot end of one secondary (when used as a primary winding) will actually also enter the dot end of the other secondary when wound as shown in the figure.

Regards
Ole
 

---In [email protected], <onielsen@...> wrote :

 Correction in red and blue in text.

Hi Kone,

"And my question is "what is it" that splits the backemf magnetic forces from the forward forces, and this split enables the backemf to take that lower resistance route back to the opposite secondary in the BiTT transformer? Maybe just the proper time-delay?"

As the flux prefers the path having the least reluctance the reflected flux from the secondaries tends to take the path through the outer ring instead of going back to the center leg. When the windings of the side legs are connected in series and having the same turn numbers they share the same current to generate the same magnetomotive force (mmf) in each side leg. When the side windings are put in phase correction they are in opposition to each other (i.e. the dot end of one side connected to the no dot end of the other side) the reflected flux of one side leg reinforces the flux of the opposite leg. The secondary legs are in parallel with the primary leg but in series to each other current vise.

Consider the moment where the mmf of the primary (P) points up the flux also flows up (source) and divides equally to each of the secondaries (S1 and S2). With the winding direction shown the current enters the no dot end at the bottom (right hand rule). The generated current of the secondaries (when loaded) has their mmfs pointing up too to cancel the flux of the current from the primary (Lenz's law). The generated current in the secondaries has the current exit the no dot end to cancel the source flux of the primary winding (right hand rule). But as connected in series the current of one secondary enters the other secondary in the opposite direction to actually reinforce the flux of the opposite secondary. I.e. the opposite secondary sees the flux from the primary as well as the flux from its other secondary as being in phase. E.g. the Lenz generated flux of S1 flows up (its mmf points up) to tend to cancel the flux of the primary and then continues around the ring going down S2 (same direction as the flux from P). The same happens in the opposite direction from the other secondary S2.


The magnetic field moves at a finite speed slower in a magnetic core than through the air. My guess is that the waves making up the magnetic field which is coherent generated from the incredible number of charge carriers moving along the turns of a leg becomes coherent between the separate windings S1 and S2 sharing the same current. It's like LASER light. As the energy density is squared when the fields becomes coherent this could explain any excess energy or power output from the transformer.

One problem is that it is hard to tune the parameters for that OU effect. Any change in a parameter seems to make it go out of OU. I may have to redo my measurements with the bridged amplifier instead of the measurements done with the single ended amplifier. Distortion of the output signal by power supply pumping may cause the excess power output. At least this has to be known before making any claim valid. The problem is increasing input power to the amplifier when the reactive power to the transformer is increased. Reactive power should only take some initial amount of energy and enough real power to make up for any loss like resistance in the wires and connected components of the primary tank circuit and the amplifier itself.

 
Regards
Ole

Hi Gerry
 Not comfusing at all in fact you explained clearly what I tried to describe in very confusing fashion -especially like that the drawing shows frozen in time all the particular components and forces  and reluctances and such ard their values are also frozen in time in only that particular timje-section of the sinewave... 
 Some describe, like Naudin, the BiTT transformer as a delayed-lenz type, so I think this whole thing of the time it takes the mmf to travel through the various legs and obstrucions and easier pathways are the varialbles if the transformer works in not affecting primary reflectiomn when secondaries are load, or if transformer operates X3 overunity or X 39 overunity...
 ciao
 Kone

Empty body

You need to add expletives from time to time , like yahoo sucks shit from a gay donkey ass and swallows !  your messages will appear in seconds !

Hi Sven
 Do your answers to messages appear on the "online EVGRAY forum"?
 

 Is your problem that you do not see your responses come back into your email ?
 There are two modes to view and post on EVGRAY, one is send emails in, the other is to access the site online, and go to "conversations" to post and read messages and replys......I do not want my email inbox to be filled with all the posts from EVGRAY everyday, so I choose to read and reply in the online mode....
 I am moderator here, so maybe I can fix the problem I don't know but am not sure exactly what your problem is.
 ciao
 Konehead

Hi Garry,

"When I try to push 2 magnets North to North together in free air they repel strongly. Yet in a piece of steel or Metglass etc they just cancel each other?"
That's because Metglass is a very good magnetic conductor. When placed between the two North poles the fields from each pole is deflected almost orthogonal through the good magnetic conductor and thus the poles are screened from each other. Air is a bad conductor of magnetism. Iron also deflects or screens the magnetic field but as iron is a much worse magnetic conductor as Metglass a thicker layer is needed for deflecting the same amount of magnetic flux.

Regards
Ole



---In [email protected], <smokyatgroups@...> wrote :

 Hi Doug, Yes it's confusing for me also.
 When I try to push 2 magnets North to North together in free air they repel strongly.
 Yet in a piece of steel or Metglass etc they just cancel each other?
 

 It goes against logic a bit for me too.
 Please don't ask me why because I don't understand that deep.
 Though I'm certain it's true because it's the same for electric currents going opposite ways.
  
 
 With a big (Fish) magnet and a little (Fish) magnet they subtract from each other, in a magnetic path leaving only the difference in the direction of the big Fish.
 

 Gerry
 

 

 


 
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 On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 5:21 AM, konehead@... mailto:konehead@... [EVGRAY] <[email protected] mailto:[email protected]> wrote:
 

 Hi GErry
 OK so magnetic forces can travel in two directions at once, sharing the same core?
 This goes against my twisted logic - as I have always thought like electrical flow the "big fish consumes the little fish" so if there is dominate strength and flow of electrical (and mmf) going one way, then that is the way it all goes and it just all gets consumed and swept along, like snowball consuming all in its path.
 The amount of backemf in the way will cause more resistance, OK, it will "slow" the movement, but the movement itself still all goes one way (I think so anyways but what do I know)
 

 "backemf" (or backmmf) to me is something inherent and locked tight with forward emf (or mmf) and just cannot be separated and is impossible or maybe it is possible to at least shove it sideways?
 ciaoKone

Hello Douglas,

I want all the news from Evgray also in my email drawer.
But I only get the news from your topic.
I did not get that message either.

That's not all that bad.

If I sign in to evgray and write there and then my messages do not arrive, then I have no opportunity to comment or open a new topic.
Somehow funny everything. Now all news is back.

Very strange.

regards

Sven

Hector, that's great, should I forget now my good nursery. laughing. Oh man. I've already noticed that you can only upload smaller images or make them smaller otherwise there is an error message. Do I have to start cursing here? laughing.

regards

Sven

Hi Doug,
Yes I agree & hear what you're saying.

The drawing captures all the circles all at their peak positive value.
If the magnetic path length is long in terms of time to traverse the
distance..... or there is some delaying device used in the circuit.

All those circles in the diagrams will not be at their peak value at the
same moment in time.
Those circles go from positive peak down to zero then to a negative peak at
a certain rate.

When properly arranged with suitable delay,  the Back emf flux can arrive
back at the input coil to re enforce the original input flux.

In this case though it isn't desirable to try to cancel out the Bemf
because it's put to good use another way.
So likely it does not apply to the BITT design.

Eg:
In Yagi style television aerials ...the longest element right at the back
of our TV antenna is called a "reflector".
They work out the timing of how far back to place this element .....so that
it "reflects" the signals which have already passed through the antenna
once.
So that the reflected signal bounces back again... in phase to re enforce
the new incoming signal at the "driven element" (the one the co ax cable is
connected to).
Producing an increased signal gain at the co ax cable.

Or if there is a long power train between a car engine and the wheels,
there's a delay in the power from the engine reaching the wheels.
So when the wheel's feel the load there's another delay before the wheels
re transmit that load back to the engine.
The delay ends up getting added together twice because of this effect.

Am I confusing the issue?
Gerry




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On Tue, Jan 30, 2018 at 1:36 AM, [email protected] [EVGRAY] <
[email protected]> wrote:

>
>
> Hi Gerry
>
> I understand the drawing show half an AC cycle, and understand what the
> circles represent, what the boxes represent...
>
> Still, there is that time period between polarity shifts not represented
> in the drawings!
>
> Imagine this to be one millisecond or one nano second- perhaps it is even
> a bit of  "negative time" who knows but the polarity shift event has
> something special to it I think and I think this is the time where it is
> "possible" to split the backemf forces that are "inherent" to forward
> current flow away from the forward current flow, and the backemf forces are
> now free to go wherever the resistance is less, and in case of BiTT, this
> decision which road to take happens at either the top two three-way
> junctions next to secondaries, or when polarity shifts with AC, the bottom
> two three way junctions...
>
> ciao
>
> Kone
>
>
> 
>

Hi Doug,
Yes it's confusing for me also.
When I try to push 2 magnets North to North together in free air they repel
strongly.
Yet in a piece of steel or Metglass etc they just cancel each other?

It goes against logic a bit for me too.
Please don't ask me why because I don't understand that deep.
Though I'm certain it's true because it's the same for electric currents
going opposite ways.

With a big (Fish) magnet and a little (Fish) magnet they subtract from each
other, in a magnetic path leaving only the difference in the direction of
the big Fish.

Gerry




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www.avast.com
<https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail>
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On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 5:21 AM, [email protected] [EVGRAY] <
[email protected]> wrote:

>
>
> Hi GErry
>
> OK so magnetic forces can travel in two directions at once, sharing the
> same core?
>
> This goes against my twisted logic - as I have always thought like
> electrical flow the "big fish consumes the little fish" so if there is
> dominate strength and flow of electrical (and mmf) going one way, then that
> is the way it all goes and it just all gets consumed and swept along, like
> snowball consuming all in its path.
>
> The amount of backemf in the way will cause more resistance, OK, it will
> "slow" the movement, but the movement itself still all goes one way (I
> think so anyways but what do I know)
>
>
> "backemf" (or backmmf) to me is something inherent and locked tight with
> forward emf (or mmf) and just cannot be separated and is impossible or
> maybe it is possible to at least shove it sideways?
>
> ciaoKone
>
>
>
>
>
> 
>