AW: Re: Aw: Re: [EVGRAY] Re: Sven's transverter

Hello Ole, yes increase the impedance and work with less capacity. The circuit then changes but also. The saturation peak then stays off or gets much wider. I'm looking for the point where you can reach this state with minimal energy. Since I use a 3-phase transformer, the magnetic shunt is much larger than the FR transformer. I could now increase the impedance and interconnect windings differently. Or can not be so pointed at high impedance of the winding, the circuit because of the high winding impedance. My question is which is the most efficient way to generate ferro-resonance from efficiency? Low inductance and high capacity or high inductance and low capacity. In which area you have to look for the best efficiency the best ringing of the core. Greetings Sven

Von meinem Samsung Gerät gesendet.

-------- Ursprüngliche Nachricht --------
Von: "[email protected] [EVGRAY]" <[email protected]> 
Datum: 25.01.19  19:07  (GMT+01:00) 
An: [email protected] 
Betreff: Re: Aw: Re: [EVGRAY] Re: Sven's transverter 


 



  


    
      
      
      Hi Sven,

Depending on how much the core saturates its inductance decreases. At full saturation any change in the magnetic field is seen like the coil has no core anymore. This is because saturation means no more atoms or electrons to align with the magnetic field. The coil then behaves as if it has an air core meaning way less inductance than when having an unsaturated iron core.

Resonance happens at the frequency where the inductive impedance equals the capacitive impedance as one is positive while the other is negative. Thus they cancel out leaving only the parasitic resistance of the wire and metallic parts of the components. At ferroresonance all kinds of jumps in inductance happens depending on the degree of saturation. This makes all kind of values of resonant frequencies happen. A ferroresonant transformer has an extra leg to where the magnetic field jumps to somehow keep a higher fixed inductance than if the core just vanishes (by saturation) as seen from a magnetic conductivity perspective. Only a tiny part of the core is actually being saturated as saturation makes great loss by heating the saturating parts.

For little energy to resonate the core keep the losses low like only saturating a small piece of the core as being done in ferroresonant transformers. If high voltage and low current is wanted the impedance of the winding has to be increased by increasing its number of turns. Doubling the number of turns mean quadrupling the inductance. For the same resonant frequency the capacitor then has to be only one fourth of its former value. The voltage is then doubled and the current is halved. The total current [A x number of turns] going around the leg stays the same.

The jumps in frequency and peak current happen because the core becomes saturated to different degrees.

Regards
Ole


---In [email protected], <s.friedrich@...> wrote :

Hi Mick,



yes, I tried to make the core squeak like a pig. laughing. It is not that easy to measure, according to the shunt there are current peaks over 100 amps measured with the scope. I try to find the sweetspot where I need very little energy to resonate the core.

The question is where do I have to look for and how should that look. My original FR transformer has a very high voltage and the current is not so high and the current flow is not so sharp. Ferroresonance and saturation is somehow similar. The higher the capacity, the stronger the saturation and the lower the frequency where it occurs. Where do I have to search, maybe Hector has an idea!?!

regards

Sven 
  Gesendet: Freitag, 25. Januar 2019 um 14:37 Uhr

Von: "Mick mkjekyll@... [EVGRAY]" <[email protected]>

An: [email protected]

Betreff: Re: [EVGRAY] Re: Sven's transverter  Sven,You have gone over to top on this project, looks like Frankensteins lab:-) Great work!    What kind of energy have you measured in watts per second?The core sounds like you are torturing it on a rack. On 1/25/2019 7:40 AM, s.friedrich@... [EVGRAY] wrote: Hello Warren and All,



I completed my push-pull control and performed initial tests. The mosfets stay cool and the recovery diodes too. I have an energy-recovery circuit built in with an additional inductance of the large transformer behind it, which I abused for it. But I have not experimented with it yet.

I also did a video.

I noticed that the bigger the capacity, the bigger the saturation or the sharper the current flow. At high voltages and smaller capacities and higher frequency, the current is not so sharp.



What is important to achieve the best operation. The noise with a higher frequency is infernal, sometimes it creates a kind of stuttering in the core. Listen for yourself. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YH6KJjBrecw 
regards



Sven

The Q of a FRT will raise by increasing driving frequency to the point where system nearly drops out of the ferroresonance. Such drop happens suddenly and sharp....-pick-.

 

 This part reflects non-linear system behaviour too.
 Hence if you lost the FR by increasing the driving frequency over the mentioned point, you will have to lower driving frequency again down till near standard resonance frequency...to the point where resonance sets in again, and then increase frequency again to the point where system nearly drops out of the FR condition.
 

 This is usually the point where Q is highest.
 

 You will not be able to tune into this point that way if your driving system does not provide means for a "stepless" frequency tuning and a continuous (uninterrupted) driving source.
 

 The only other way is setting up the target frequency first, then increase input power above rape-limits, till secondary LC is enforced to follow the input frequency in FR mode, and afterwards lower input power to the point where system drops nearly out of the FR condition. But that's rather brutal approach.
 

 The more power you drive into the system, the more far you will be able to increase the frequency above the standard resonant (non-FR) condition.
 

 Long ago I did tests with a modified HF transformer, taken out of an inverter-MWO, having primary coil H-bridge-driven, magnetic shunt with small air gap and resonant secondary (LC).
 

 Tuning into the mentioned point (was for me round about 25 kHz), I was able to drive the system with 21 watts input and got more than 3.4 kilowatts (9.3 Amps at near 370 Volts RMS) FR oscillation in the secondary (Q = 160, if you want to put it like that).
 

 Cheers!
 

 Ronald

Hector,

How much wattage can one properly designed diode plug single stage
source to a load?

On 1/28/2019 1:13 PM, [email protected] [EVGRAY] wrote:
>  
>
> Anyone can get the spike constant conditions within ferro-resonance
> all they need is to read My papers on ferro-resonance , plus Norman
> MRA papers , sven just read , experimented & got results !
>
> (the rest can easy do the same ..) then next comes extraction feedback
> and loading .
>
> thats what the diode plugs and switching non reflective to source
> coil-bangers are for
>
> the experimentation on single shot coil banging and power recovery are
> the simple key .
>
> "Solid state"
>
> no fancy circus shows neither pillow talk ...
>
>
>
> (H)
>
>

SvenYou continue to be a great source of inspiration!It is music to hear your success with the transformer.Thank you Hector for steering Sven into the Transvertor experimentCheers Warren
Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
 
  On Mon, 28 Jan 2019 at 11:45 AM, [email protected] [EVGRAY]<[email protected]> wrote:       

Hi Ronald,Thank you for your message. Yes, that's how it works for me as you described it.I have on each leg of the 3-phase transformer 2 equal windings and a larger 3 winding.The 2 windings I steer in push-pull mode, with a square wave frequency of 37-800Hz and fully variable PWM.I start with low frequency and slowly increase the resonance sometime collapses, by increasing the pulse width I can increase the frequency more and more, but also put in more power.Hector created a 10KW ringing with a 3W Pulser, that's my intention.A Q of 160 is awesome because I'm far away. I think Q30 is more than that. I have the opportunity to interconnect the resonant windings for a higher impedance, this would be an advantage, since the voltage then also rises sharply.
The current curve is then no longer so acute, or is it simply because the winding inductance without iron is now larger and the curve looks different.The fact is that I want to operate the Ferroresonanz with the highest efficiency, I was hoping that I could tickle with square-wave voltage and strong sharp tips the transformer stronger than with a sine wave inverter.regardsSven Gesendet: Samstag, 26. Januar 2019 um 11:37 Uhr
Von: "[email protected] [EVGRAY]" <[email protected]>
An: [email protected]
Betreff: Re: AW: Re: Aw: Re: [EVGRAY] Re: Sven's transverter 
 
The Q of a FRT will raise by increasing driving frequency to the point where system nearly drops out of the ferroresonance. Such drop happens suddenly and sharp....-pick-. This part reflects non-linear system behaviour too.Hence if you lost the FR by increasing the driving frequency over the mentioned point, you will have to lower driving frequency again down till near standard resonance frequency...to the point where resonance sets in again, and then increase frequency again to the point where system nearly drops out of the FR condition. This is usually the point where Q is highest. You will not be able to tune into this point that way if your driving system does not provide means for a "stepless" frequency tuning and a continuous (uninterrupted) driving source. The only other way is setting up the target frequency first, then increase input power above rape-limits, till secondary LC is enforced to follow the input frequency in FR mode, and afterwards lower input power to the point where system drops nearly out of the FR condition. But that's rather brutal approach. The more power you drive into the system, the more far you will be able to increase the frequency above the standard resonant (non-FR) condition. Long ago I did tests with a modified HF transformer, taken out of an inverter-MWO, having primary coil H-bridge-driven, magnetic shunt with small air gap and resonant secondary (LC). Tuning into the mentioned point (was for me round about 25 kHz), I was able to drive the system with 21 watts input and got more than 3.4 kilowatts (9.3 Amps at near 370 Volts RMS) FR oscillation in the secondary (Q = 160, if you want to put it like that). Cheers! Ronald     
 
  #yiv2403251414 #yiv2403251414 -- #yiv2403251414ygrp-mkp {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:10px 0;padding:0 10px;}#yiv2403251414 #yiv2403251414ygrp-mkp hr {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;}#yiv2403251414 #yiv2403251414ygrp-mkp #yiv2403251414hd {color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:700;line-height:122%;margin:10px 0;}#yiv2403251414 #yiv2403251414ygrp-mkp #yiv2403251414ads {margin-bottom:10px;}#yiv2403251414 #yiv2403251414ygrp-mkp .yiv2403251414ad {padding:0 0;}#yiv2403251414 #yiv2403251414ygrp-mkp .yiv2403251414ad p {margin:0;}#yiv2403251414 #yiv2403251414ygrp-mkp .yiv2403251414ad a {color:#0000ff;text-decoration:none;}#yiv2403251414 #yiv2403251414ygrp-sponsor #yiv2403251414ygrp-lc {font-family:Arial;}#yiv2403251414 #yiv2403251414ygrp-sponsor #yiv2403251414ygrp-lc #yiv2403251414hd {margin:10px 0px;font-weight:700;font-size:78%;line-height:122%;}#yiv2403251414 #yiv2403251414ygrp-sponsor #yiv2403251414ygrp-lc .yiv2403251414ad {margin-bottom:10px;padding:0 0;}#yiv2403251414 #yiv2403251414actions {font-family:Verdana;font-size:11px;padding:10px 0;}#yiv2403251414 #yiv2403251414activity {background-color:#e0ecee;float:left;font-family:Verdana;font-size:10px;padding:10px;}#yiv2403251414 #yiv2403251414activity span {font-weight:700;}#yiv2403251414 #yiv2403251414activity span:first-child {text-transform:uppercase;}#yiv2403251414 #yiv2403251414activity span a {color:#5085b6;text-decoration:none;}#yiv2403251414 #yiv2403251414activity span span {color:#ff7900;}#yiv2403251414 #yiv2403251414activity span .yiv2403251414underline {text-decoration:underline;}#yiv2403251414 .yiv2403251414attach {clear:both;display:table;font-family:Arial;font-size:12px;padding:10px 0;width:400px;}#yiv2403251414 .yiv2403251414attach div a {text-decoration:none;}#yiv2403251414 .yiv2403251414attach img {border:none;padding-right:5px;}#yiv2403251414 .yiv2403251414attach label {display:block;margin-bottom:5px;}#yiv2403251414 .yiv2403251414attach label a {text-decoration:none;}#yiv2403251414 blockquote {margin:0 0 0 4px;}#yiv2403251414 .yiv2403251414bold {font-family:Arial;font-size:13px;font-weight:700;}#yiv2403251414 .yiv2403251414bold a {text-decoration:none;}#yiv2403251414 dd.yiv2403251414last p a {font-family:Verdana;font-weight:700;}#yiv2403251414 dd.yiv2403251414last p span {margin-right:10px;font-family:Verdana;font-weight:700;}#yiv2403251414 dd.yiv2403251414last p span.yiv2403251414yshortcuts {margin-right:0;}#yiv2403251414 div.yiv2403251414attach-table div div a {text-decoration:none;}#yiv2403251414 div.yiv2403251414attach-table {width:400px;}#yiv2403251414 div.yiv2403251414file-title a, #yiv2403251414 div.yiv2403251414file-title a:active, #yiv2403251414 div.yiv2403251414file-title a:hover, #yiv2403251414 div.yiv2403251414file-title a:visited {text-decoration:none;}#yiv2403251414 div.yiv2403251414photo-title a, #yiv2403251414 div.yiv2403251414photo-title a:active, #yiv2403251414 div.yiv2403251414photo-title a:hover, #yiv2403251414 div.yiv2403251414photo-title a:visited {text-decoration:none;}#yiv2403251414 div#yiv2403251414ygrp-mlmsg #yiv2403251414ygrp-msg p a span.yiv2403251414yshortcuts {font-family:Verdana;font-size:10px;font-weight:normal;}#yiv2403251414 .yiv2403251414green {color:#628c2a;}#yiv2403251414 .yiv2403251414MsoNormal {margin:0 0 0 0;}#yiv2403251414 o {font-size:0;}#yiv2403251414 #yiv2403251414photos div {float:left;width:72px;}#yiv2403251414 #yiv2403251414photos div div {border:1px solid #666666;min-height:62px;overflow:hidden;width:62px;}#yiv2403251414 #yiv2403251414photos div label {color:#666666;font-size:10px;overflow:hidden;text-align:center;white-space:nowrap;width:64px;}#yiv2403251414 #yiv2403251414reco-category {font-size:77%;}#yiv2403251414 #yiv2403251414reco-desc {font-size:77%;}#yiv2403251414 .yiv2403251414replbq {margin:4px;}#yiv2403251414 #yiv2403251414ygrp-actbar div a:first-child {margin-right:2px;padding-right:5px;}#yiv2403251414 #yiv2403251414ygrp-mlmsg {font-size:13px;font-family:Arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif;}#yiv2403251414 #yiv2403251414ygrp-mlmsg table {font-size:inherit;font:100%;}#yiv2403251414 #yiv2403251414ygrp-mlmsg select, #yiv2403251414 input, #yiv2403251414 textarea {font:99% Arial, Helvetica, clean, sans-serif;}#yiv2403251414 #yiv2403251414ygrp-mlmsg pre, #yiv2403251414 code {font:115% monospace;}#yiv2403251414 #yiv2403251414ygrp-mlmsg * {line-height:1.22em;}#yiv2403251414 #yiv2403251414ygrp-mlmsg #yiv2403251414logo {padding-bottom:10px;}#yiv2403251414 #yiv2403251414ygrp-msg p a {font-family:Verdana;}#yiv2403251414 #yiv2403251414ygrp-msg p#yiv2403251414attach-count span {color:#1E66AE;font-weight:700;}#yiv2403251414 #yiv2403251414ygrp-reco #yiv2403251414reco-head {color:#ff7900;font-weight:700;}#yiv2403251414 #yiv2403251414ygrp-reco {margin-bottom:20px;padding:0px;}#yiv2403251414 #yiv2403251414ygrp-sponsor #yiv2403251414ov li a {font-size:130%;text-decoration:none;}#yiv2403251414 #yiv2403251414ygrp-sponsor #yiv2403251414ov li {font-size:77%;list-style-type:square;padding:6px 0;}#yiv2403251414 #yiv2403251414ygrp-sponsor #yiv2403251414ov ul {margin:0;padding:0 0 0 8px;}#yiv2403251414 #yiv2403251414ygrp-text {font-family:Georgia;}#yiv2403251414 #yiv2403251414ygrp-text p {margin:0 0 1em 0;}#yiv2403251414 #yiv2403251414ygrp-text tt {font-size:120%;}#yiv2403251414 #yiv2403251414ygrp-vital ul li:last-child {border-right:none !important;}#yiv2403251414

Empty body

Anyone can get the spike constant conditions within ferro-resonance all they need is to read My papers on ferro-resonance , plus Norman MRA papers , sven just read , experimented & got results !

(the rest can easy do the same ..) then next comes extraction feedback and loading .

thats what the diode plugs and switching non reflective to source coil-bangers are for 

the experimentation on single shot coil banging and power recovery are the simple key .

"Solid state"

no fancy circus shows neither pillow talk ... 



(H)

Ir reality any as is frequency capacity and resonance determined to an specific Ω load .


(H) 


---In [email protected], <mkjekyll@...> wrote :

 Hector,
 How much wattage can one properly designed diode plug single stage source to a load?
 
 On 1/28/2019 1:13 PM, arkresearch@... mailto:arkresearch@... [EVGRAY] wrote:
 
   Anyone can get the spike constant conditions within ferro-resonance all they need is to read My papers on ferro-resonance , plus Norman MRA papers , sven just read , experimented & got results !
 
 (the rest can easy do the same ..) then next comes extraction feedback and loading .
 
 thats what the diode plugs and switching non reflective to source coil-bangers are for 
 
 the experimentation on single shot coil banging and power recovery are the simple key .
 
 "Solid state"
 
 no fancy circus shows neither pillow talk ... 
 
 
 
 (H)

Kone,

Yes the motors are likely seeing the others as rotary condensers of a
sort since they are all matched motors, good call!

On 1/29/2019 10:21 AM, [email protected] [EVGRAY] wrote:
>  
>
> Hi Warren
> I was thinking today each treadmill motor in daisy chain connected to
> each other through fwbr could be that each motor next in chain is
> viewed by previous motor more as some sort of rotating pulsed
> capacolitance, rather than a resistive inductive load each time...i
> bet if you put a heavy resistor on any of those motors it wpud ruin
> everything and fact all motors spin free and unloaded mafe it work so
> well. Also each motor sifs the spin of the others too something else
> to think about...
> Kone
>
>

Hector, and DougSomething weird was going on to allow me to run ten big motors, off a 125 watt inverter, and a 5 amp gel cell battery for half an hour, right?They were seriously powered, with the last one flipping off the table, at switch on, running on 90 volts, when the Variac was only set on motor number 1 at 35 volts.Maybe it isn't needed, but I just thought the RV driven dc  motor might just add a finite quality to the power source allowing us to measure input, almost scientifically, since I am so lousy at making sure everything is measured carefully.
The looping is just for giggles.Belting down the last motor to another dc motor to generate the 35 volts, should also work.35 volts was arbitrary, picked at random, with no specific reasoning except maybe not doing too much damage, yet running the dc motor at a working speed.Cheers Warren
Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
 
  On Tue, 29 Jan 2019 at 9:22 AM, [email protected] [EVGRAY]<[email protected]> wrote:       
Ir reality any as is frequency capacity and resonance determined to an specific Ω load .


(H) 


---In [email protected], <mkjekyll@...> wrote :


 
Hector,
 
How much wattage can one properly designed diode plug single stage source to a load?
 
 On 1/28/2019 1:13 PM, arkresearch@... [EVGRAY] wrote:
  
 
    
Anyone can get the spike constant conditions within ferro-resonance all they need is to read My papers on ferro-resonance , plus Norman MRA papers , sven just read , experimented & got results !
 
 (the rest can easy do the same ..) then next comes extraction feedback and loading .
 
 thats what the diode plugs and switching non reflective to source coil-bangers are for 
 
 the experimentation on single shot coil banging and power recovery are the simple key .
 
 "Solid state"
 
 no fancy circus shows neither pillow talk ... 
 
 
 
 (H)
  
 
  #yiv1003955494 #yiv1003955494 -- #yiv1003955494ygrp-mkp {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:10px 0;padding:0 10px;}#yiv1003955494 #yiv1003955494ygrp-mkp hr {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;}#yiv1003955494 #yiv1003955494ygrp-mkp #yiv1003955494hd {color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:700;line-height:122%;margin:10px 0;}#yiv1003955494 #yiv1003955494ygrp-mkp #yiv1003955494ads {margin-bottom:10px;}#yiv1003955494 #yiv1003955494ygrp-mkp .yiv1003955494ad {padding:0 0;}#yiv1003955494 #yiv1003955494ygrp-mkp .yiv1003955494ad p {margin:0;}#yiv1003955494 #yiv1003955494ygrp-mkp .yiv1003955494ad a {color:#0000ff;text-decoration:none;}#yiv1003955494 #yiv1003955494ygrp-sponsor #yiv1003955494ygrp-lc {font-family:Arial;}#yiv1003955494 #yiv1003955494ygrp-sponsor #yiv1003955494ygrp-lc #yiv1003955494hd {margin:10px 0px;font-weight:700;font-size:78%;line-height:122%;}#yiv1003955494 #yiv1003955494ygrp-sponsor #yiv1003955494ygrp-lc .yiv1003955494ad {margin-bottom:10px;padding:0 0;}#yiv1003955494 #yiv1003955494actions {font-family:Verdana;font-size:11px;padding:10px 0;}#yiv1003955494 #yiv1003955494activity {background-color:#e0ecee;float:left;font-family:Verdana;font-size:10px;padding:10px;}#yiv1003955494 #yiv1003955494activity span {font-weight:700;}#yiv1003955494 #yiv1003955494activity span:first-child {text-transform:uppercase;}#yiv1003955494 #yiv1003955494activity span a {color:#5085b6;text-decoration:none;}#yiv1003955494 #yiv1003955494activity span span {color:#ff7900;}#yiv1003955494 #yiv1003955494activity span .yiv1003955494underline {text-decoration:underline;}#yiv1003955494 .yiv1003955494attach {clear:both;display:table;font-family:Arial;font-size:12px;padding:10px 0;width:400px;}#yiv1003955494 .yiv1003955494attach div a {text-decoration:none;}#yiv1003955494 .yiv1003955494attach img {border:none;padding-right:5px;}#yiv1003955494 .yiv1003955494attach label {display:block;margin-bottom:5px;}#yiv1003955494 .yiv1003955494attach label a {text-decoration:none;}#yiv1003955494 blockquote {margin:0 0 0 4px;}#yiv1003955494 .yiv1003955494bold {font-family:Arial;font-size:13px;font-weight:700;}#yiv1003955494 .yiv1003955494bold a {text-decoration:none;}#yiv1003955494 dd.yiv1003955494last p a {font-family:Verdana;font-weight:700;}#yiv1003955494 dd.yiv1003955494last p span {margin-right:10px;font-family:Verdana;font-weight:700;}#yiv1003955494 dd.yiv1003955494last p span.yiv1003955494yshortcuts {margin-right:0;}#yiv1003955494 div.yiv1003955494attach-table div div a {text-decoration:none;}#yiv1003955494 div.yiv1003955494attach-table {width:400px;}#yiv1003955494 div.yiv1003955494file-title a, #yiv1003955494 div.yiv1003955494file-title a:active, #yiv1003955494 div.yiv1003955494file-title a:hover, #yiv1003955494 div.yiv1003955494file-title a:visited {text-decoration:none;}#yiv1003955494 div.yiv1003955494photo-title a, #yiv1003955494 div.yiv1003955494photo-title a:active, #yiv1003955494 div.yiv1003955494photo-title a:hover, #yiv1003955494 div.yiv1003955494photo-title a:visited {text-decoration:none;}#yiv1003955494 div#yiv1003955494ygrp-mlmsg #yiv1003955494ygrp-msg p a span.yiv1003955494yshortcuts {font-family:Verdana;font-size:10px;font-weight:normal;}#yiv1003955494 .yiv1003955494green {color:#628c2a;}#yiv1003955494 .yiv1003955494MsoNormal {margin:0 0 0 0;}#yiv1003955494 o {font-size:0;}#yiv1003955494 #yiv1003955494photos div {float:left;width:72px;}#yiv1003955494 #yiv1003955494photos div div {border:1px solid #666666;min-height:62px;overflow:hidden;width:62px;}#yiv1003955494 #yiv1003955494photos div label {color:#666666;font-size:10px;overflow:hidden;text-align:center;white-space:nowrap;width:64px;}#yiv1003955494 #yiv1003955494reco-category {font-size:77%;}#yiv1003955494 #yiv1003955494reco-desc {font-size:77%;}#yiv1003955494 .yiv1003955494replbq {margin:4px;}#yiv1003955494 #yiv1003955494ygrp-actbar div a:first-child {margin-right:2px;padding-right:5px;}#yiv1003955494 #yiv1003955494ygrp-mlmsg {font-size:13px;font-family:Arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif;}#yiv1003955494 #yiv1003955494ygrp-mlmsg table {font-size:inherit;font:100%;}#yiv1003955494 #yiv1003955494ygrp-mlmsg select, #yiv1003955494 input, #yiv1003955494 textarea {font:99% Arial, Helvetica, clean, sans-serif;}#yiv1003955494 #yiv1003955494ygrp-mlmsg pre, #yiv1003955494 code {font:115% monospace;}#yiv1003955494 #yiv1003955494ygrp-mlmsg * {line-height:1.22em;}#yiv1003955494 #yiv1003955494ygrp-mlmsg #yiv1003955494logo {padding-bottom:10px;}#yiv1003955494 #yiv1003955494ygrp-msg p a {font-family:Verdana;}#yiv1003955494 #yiv1003955494ygrp-msg p#yiv1003955494attach-count span {color:#1E66AE;font-weight:700;}#yiv1003955494 #yiv1003955494ygrp-reco #yiv1003955494reco-head {color:#ff7900;font-weight:700;}#yiv1003955494 #yiv1003955494ygrp-reco {margin-bottom:20px;padding:0px;}#yiv1003955494 #yiv1003955494ygrp-sponsor #yiv1003955494ov li a {font-size:130%;text-decoration:none;}#yiv1003955494 #yiv1003955494ygrp-sponsor #yiv1003955494ov li {font-size:77%;list-style-type:square;padding:6px 0;}#yiv1003955494 #yiv1003955494ygrp-sponsor #yiv1003955494ov ul {margin:0;padding:0 0 0 8px;}#yiv1003955494 #yiv1003955494ygrp-text {font-family:Georgia;}#yiv1003955494 #yiv1003955494ygrp-text p {margin:0 0 1em 0;}#yiv1003955494 #yiv1003955494ygrp-text tt {font-size:120%;}#yiv1003955494 #yiv1003955494ygrp-vital ul li:last-child {border-right:none !important;}#yiv1003955494

Hi Warren
I was thinking today each treadmill motor in daisy chain connected to each other through fwbr could be that each motor next in chain is viewed by previous motor more as some sort of rotating pulsed capacolitance, rather than a resistive inductive load each time...i bet if you put a heavy resistor on any of those motors it wpud ruin everything and fact all motors spin free and unloaded mafe it work so well. Also each motor sifs the spin of the others too something else to think about...
Kone

aids  not sifs correction (smart phone fat fingers tired eyes)

DougI tested some motors in the daisy chain by belting others on to them with vee belts and pulleys. When I say they were strong, I mean I could not stop the pulleys, strong.It is not a free spinning silliness, but a chain of serious strong motors, running off of not much.Where I fell off the idea, is when I couldn't replicate that experiment with dc toy motors, and other concepts got my attention.I think now, examining the bridge diode circuit, where the flaw was in my replication build.Serendipity plays a huge role in invention, and discovery.Cheers Warren

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
 
  On Tue, 29 Jan 2019 at 10:38 AM, [email protected] [EVGRAY]<[email protected]> wrote:       
Hi Warren
I was thinking today each treadmill motor in daisy chain connected to each other through fwbr could be that each motor next in chain is viewed by previous motor more as some sort of rotating pulsed capacolitance, rather than a resistive inductive load each time...i bet if you put a heavy resistor on any of those motors it wpud ruin everything and fact all motors spin free and unloaded mafe it work so well. Also each motor sifs the spin of the others too something else to think about...
Kone 
  #yiv6495254008 #yiv6495254008 -- #yiv6495254008ygrp-mkp {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:10px 0;padding:0 10px;}#yiv6495254008 #yiv6495254008ygrp-mkp hr {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;}#yiv6495254008 #yiv6495254008ygrp-mkp #yiv6495254008hd {color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:700;line-height:122%;margin:10px 0;}#yiv6495254008 #yiv6495254008ygrp-mkp #yiv6495254008ads {margin-bottom:10px;}#yiv6495254008 #yiv6495254008ygrp-mkp .yiv6495254008ad {padding:0 0;}#yiv6495254008 #yiv6495254008ygrp-mkp .yiv6495254008ad p {margin:0;}#yiv6495254008 #yiv6495254008ygrp-mkp .yiv6495254008ad a {color:#0000ff;text-decoration:none;}#yiv6495254008 #yiv6495254008ygrp-sponsor #yiv6495254008ygrp-lc {font-family:Arial;}#yiv6495254008 #yiv6495254008ygrp-sponsor #yiv6495254008ygrp-lc #yiv6495254008hd {margin:10px 0px;font-weight:700;font-size:78%;line-height:122%;}#yiv6495254008 #yiv6495254008ygrp-sponsor #yiv6495254008ygrp-lc .yiv6495254008ad {margin-bottom:10px;padding:0 0;}#yiv6495254008 #yiv6495254008actions {font-family:Verdana;font-size:11px;padding:10px 0;}#yiv6495254008 #yiv6495254008activity {background-color:#e0ecee;float:left;font-family:Verdana;font-size:10px;padding:10px;}#yiv6495254008 #yiv6495254008activity span {font-weight:700;}#yiv6495254008 #yiv6495254008activity span:first-child {text-transform:uppercase;}#yiv6495254008 #yiv6495254008activity span a {color:#5085b6;text-decoration:none;}#yiv6495254008 #yiv6495254008activity span span {color:#ff7900;}#yiv6495254008 #yiv6495254008activity span .yiv6495254008underline {text-decoration:underline;}#yiv6495254008 .yiv6495254008attach {clear:both;display:table;font-family:Arial;font-size:12px;padding:10px 0;width:400px;}#yiv6495254008 .yiv6495254008attach div a {text-decoration:none;}#yiv6495254008 .yiv6495254008attach img {border:none;padding-right:5px;}#yiv6495254008 .yiv6495254008attach label {display:block;margin-bottom:5px;}#yiv6495254008 .yiv6495254008attach label a {text-decoration:none;}#yiv6495254008 blockquote {margin:0 0 0 4px;}#yiv6495254008 .yiv6495254008bold {font-family:Arial;font-size:13px;font-weight:700;}#yiv6495254008 .yiv6495254008bold a {text-decoration:none;}#yiv6495254008 dd.yiv6495254008last p a {font-family:Verdana;font-weight:700;}#yiv6495254008 dd.yiv6495254008last p span {margin-right:10px;font-family:Verdana;font-weight:700;}#yiv6495254008 dd.yiv6495254008last p span.yiv6495254008yshortcuts {margin-right:0;}#yiv6495254008 div.yiv6495254008attach-table div div a {text-decoration:none;}#yiv6495254008 div.yiv6495254008attach-table {width:400px;}#yiv6495254008 div.yiv6495254008file-title a, #yiv6495254008 div.yiv6495254008file-title a:active, #yiv6495254008 div.yiv6495254008file-title a:hover, #yiv6495254008 div.yiv6495254008file-title a:visited {text-decoration:none;}#yiv6495254008 div.yiv6495254008photo-title a, #yiv6495254008 div.yiv6495254008photo-title a:active, #yiv6495254008 div.yiv6495254008photo-title a:hover, #yiv6495254008 div.yiv6495254008photo-title a:visited {text-decoration:none;}#yiv6495254008 div#yiv6495254008ygrp-mlmsg #yiv6495254008ygrp-msg p a span.yiv6495254008yshortcuts {font-family:Verdana;font-size:10px;font-weight:normal;}#yiv6495254008 .yiv6495254008green {color:#628c2a;}#yiv6495254008 .yiv6495254008MsoNormal {margin:0 0 0 0;}#yiv6495254008 o {font-size:0;}#yiv6495254008 #yiv6495254008photos div {float:left;width:72px;}#yiv6495254008 #yiv6495254008photos div div {border:1px solid #666666;min-height:62px;overflow:hidden;width:62px;}#yiv6495254008 #yiv6495254008photos div label {color:#666666;font-size:10px;overflow:hidden;text-align:center;white-space:nowrap;width:64px;}#yiv6495254008 #yiv6495254008reco-category {font-size:77%;}#yiv6495254008 #yiv6495254008reco-desc {font-size:77%;}#yiv6495254008 .yiv6495254008replbq {margin:4px;}#yiv6495254008 #yiv6495254008ygrp-actbar div a:first-child {margin-right:2px;padding-right:5px;}#yiv6495254008 #yiv6495254008ygrp-mlmsg {font-size:13px;font-family:Arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif;}#yiv6495254008 #yiv6495254008ygrp-mlmsg table {font-size:inherit;font:100%;}#yiv6495254008 #yiv6495254008ygrp-mlmsg select, #yiv6495254008 input, #yiv6495254008 textarea {font:99% Arial, Helvetica, clean, sans-serif;}#yiv6495254008 #yiv6495254008ygrp-mlmsg pre, #yiv6495254008 code {font:115% monospace;}#yiv6495254008 #yiv6495254008ygrp-mlmsg * {line-height:1.22em;}#yiv6495254008 #yiv6495254008ygrp-mlmsg #yiv6495254008logo {padding-bottom:10px;}#yiv6495254008 #yiv6495254008ygrp-msg p a {font-family:Verdana;}#yiv6495254008 #yiv6495254008ygrp-msg p#yiv6495254008attach-count span {color:#1E66AE;font-weight:700;}#yiv6495254008 #yiv6495254008ygrp-reco #yiv6495254008reco-head {color:#ff7900;font-weight:700;}#yiv6495254008 #yiv6495254008ygrp-reco {margin-bottom:20px;padding:0px;}#yiv6495254008 #yiv6495254008ygrp-sponsor #yiv6495254008ov li a {font-size:130%;text-decoration:none;}#yiv6495254008 #yiv6495254008ygrp-sponsor #yiv6495254008ov li {font-size:77%;list-style-type:square;padding:6px 0;}#yiv6495254008 #yiv6495254008ygrp-sponsor #yiv6495254008ov ul {margin:0;padding:0 0 0 8px;}#yiv6495254008 #yiv6495254008ygrp-text {font-family:Georgia;}#yiv6495254008 #yiv6495254008ygrp-text p {margin:0 0 1em 0;}#yiv6495254008 #yiv6495254008ygrp-text tt {font-size:120%;}#yiv6495254008 #yiv6495254008ygrp-vital ul li:last-child {border-right:none !important;}#yiv6495254008

MickWrong! The motors were a hodge podge of voltages, and horse powers, straight out of the plastic milk crates from my storage area, with no great clever thought in my head, other than testing Doug's idea of capturing the juice off the brush wires with  bridge rectifiers.The fact that I happened to have collected an unwholesome hoard of DC motors, was a legacy of making myself wind generators, rather than any systematic study.Cheers Warren
Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
 
  On Tue, 29 Jan 2019 at 10:58 AM, Mick [email protected] [EVGRAY]<[email protected]> wrote:       
 

Kone,
 
Yes the motors are likely seeing the others as rotary condensers of a sort since they are all matched motors, good call!
 
 On 1/29/2019 10:21 AM, [email protected] [EVGRAY] wrote:
  
    
Hi Warren
 I was thinking today each treadmill motor in daisy chain connected to each other through fwbr could be that each motor next in chain is viewed by previous motor more as some sort of rotating pulsed capacolitance, rather than a resistive inductive load each time...i bet if you put a heavy resistor on any of those motors it wpud ruin everything and fact all motors spin free and unloaded mafe it work so well. Also each motor sifs the spin of the others too something else to think about...
 Kone 
  
  #yiv3681620596 #yiv3681620596 -- #yiv3681620596ygrp-mkp {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:10px 0;padding:0 10px;}#yiv3681620596 #yiv3681620596ygrp-mkp hr {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;}#yiv3681620596 #yiv3681620596ygrp-mkp #yiv3681620596hd {color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:700;line-height:122%;margin:10px 0;}#yiv3681620596 #yiv3681620596ygrp-mkp #yiv3681620596ads {margin-bottom:10px;}#yiv3681620596 #yiv3681620596ygrp-mkp .yiv3681620596ad {padding:0 0;}#yiv3681620596 #yiv3681620596ygrp-mkp .yiv3681620596ad p {margin:0;}#yiv3681620596 #yiv3681620596ygrp-mkp .yiv3681620596ad a {color:#0000ff;text-decoration:none;}#yiv3681620596 #yiv3681620596ygrp-sponsor #yiv3681620596ygrp-lc {font-family:Arial;}#yiv3681620596 #yiv3681620596ygrp-sponsor #yiv3681620596ygrp-lc #yiv3681620596hd {margin:10px 0px;font-weight:700;font-size:78%;line-height:122%;}#yiv3681620596 #yiv3681620596ygrp-sponsor #yiv3681620596ygrp-lc .yiv3681620596ad {margin-bottom:10px;padding:0 0;}#yiv3681620596 #yiv3681620596actions {font-family:Verdana;font-size:11px;padding:10px 0;}#yiv3681620596 #yiv3681620596activity {background-color:#e0ecee;float:left;font-family:Verdana;font-size:10px;padding:10px;}#yiv3681620596 #yiv3681620596activity span {font-weight:700;}#yiv3681620596 #yiv3681620596activity span:first-child {text-transform:uppercase;}#yiv3681620596 #yiv3681620596activity span a {color:#5085b6;text-decoration:none;}#yiv3681620596 #yiv3681620596activity span span {color:#ff7900;}#yiv3681620596 #yiv3681620596activity span .yiv3681620596underline {text-decoration:underline;}#yiv3681620596 .yiv3681620596attach {clear:both;display:table;font-family:Arial;font-size:12px;padding:10px 0;width:400px;}#yiv3681620596 .yiv3681620596attach div a {text-decoration:none;}#yiv3681620596 .yiv3681620596attach img {border:none;padding-right:5px;}#yiv3681620596 .yiv3681620596attach label {display:block;margin-bottom:5px;}#yiv3681620596 .yiv3681620596attach label a {text-decoration:none;}#yiv3681620596 blockquote {margin:0 0 0 4px;}#yiv3681620596 .yiv3681620596bold {font-family:Arial;font-size:13px;font-weight:700;}#yiv3681620596 .yiv3681620596bold a {text-decoration:none;}#yiv3681620596 dd.yiv3681620596last p a {font-family:Verdana;font-weight:700;}#yiv3681620596 dd.yiv3681620596last p span {margin-right:10px;font-family:Verdana;font-weight:700;}#yiv3681620596 dd.yiv3681620596last p span.yiv3681620596yshortcuts {margin-right:0;}#yiv3681620596 div.yiv3681620596attach-table div div a {text-decoration:none;}#yiv3681620596 div.yiv3681620596attach-table {width:400px;}#yiv3681620596 div.yiv3681620596file-title a, #yiv3681620596 div.yiv3681620596file-title a:active, #yiv3681620596 div.yiv3681620596file-title a:hover, #yiv3681620596 div.yiv3681620596file-title a:visited {text-decoration:none;}#yiv3681620596 div.yiv3681620596photo-title a, #yiv3681620596 div.yiv3681620596photo-title a:active, #yiv3681620596 div.yiv3681620596photo-title a:hover, #yiv3681620596 div.yiv3681620596photo-title a:visited {text-decoration:none;}#yiv3681620596 div#yiv3681620596ygrp-mlmsg #yiv3681620596ygrp-msg p a span.yiv3681620596yshortcuts {font-family:Verdana;font-size:10px;font-weight:normal;}#yiv3681620596 .yiv3681620596green {color:#628c2a;}#yiv3681620596 .yiv3681620596MsoNormal {margin:0 0 0 0;}#yiv3681620596 o {font-size:0;}#yiv3681620596 #yiv3681620596photos div {float:left;width:72px;}#yiv3681620596 #yiv3681620596photos div div {border:1px solid #666666;min-height:62px;overflow:hidden;width:62px;}#yiv3681620596 #yiv3681620596photos div label {color:#666666;font-size:10px;overflow:hidden;text-align:center;white-space:nowrap;width:64px;}#yiv3681620596 #yiv3681620596reco-category {font-size:77%;}#yiv3681620596 #yiv3681620596reco-desc {font-size:77%;}#yiv3681620596 .yiv3681620596replbq {margin:4px;}#yiv3681620596 #yiv3681620596ygrp-actbar div a:first-child {margin-right:2px;padding-right:5px;}#yiv3681620596 #yiv3681620596ygrp-mlmsg {font-size:13px;font-family:Arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif;}#yiv3681620596 #yiv3681620596ygrp-mlmsg table {font-size:inherit;font:100%;}#yiv3681620596 #yiv3681620596ygrp-mlmsg select, #yiv3681620596 input, #yiv3681620596 textarea {font:99% Arial, Helvetica, clean, sans-serif;}#yiv3681620596 #yiv3681620596ygrp-mlmsg pre, #yiv3681620596 code {font:115% monospace;}#yiv3681620596 #yiv3681620596ygrp-mlmsg * {line-height:1.22em;}#yiv3681620596 #yiv3681620596ygrp-mlmsg #yiv3681620596logo {padding-bottom:10px;}#yiv3681620596 #yiv3681620596ygrp-msg p a {font-family:Verdana;}#yiv3681620596 #yiv3681620596ygrp-msg p#yiv3681620596attach-count span {color:#1E66AE;font-weight:700;}#yiv3681620596 #yiv3681620596ygrp-reco #yiv3681620596reco-head {color:#ff7900;font-weight:700;}#yiv3681620596 #yiv3681620596ygrp-reco {margin-bottom:20px;padding:0px;}#yiv3681620596 #yiv3681620596ygrp-sponsor #yiv3681620596ov li a {font-size:130%;text-decoration:none;}#yiv3681620596 #yiv3681620596ygrp-sponsor #yiv3681620596ov li {font-size:77%;list-style-type:square;padding:6px 0;}#yiv3681620596 #yiv3681620596ygrp-sponsor #yiv3681620596ov ul {margin:0;padding:0 0 0 8px;}#yiv3681620596 #yiv3681620596ygrp-text {font-family:Georgia;}#yiv3681620596 #yiv3681620596ygrp-text p {margin:0 0 1em 0;}#yiv3681620596 #yiv3681620596ygrp-text tt {font-size:120%;}#yiv3681620596 #yiv3681620596ygrp-vital ul li:last-child {border-right:none !important;}#yiv3681620596

Warren did you pull the back emf from each motor and recycle it ?

On Tuesday, January 29, 2019, Warren Keillor [email protected]
[EVGRAY] <[email protected]> wrote:

>
>
>
> Mick
> Wrong! The motors were a hodge podge of voltages, and horse powers,
> straight out of the plastic milk crates from my storage area, with no great
> clever thought in my head, other than testing Doug's idea of capturing the
> juice off the brush wires with  bridge rectifiers.
> The fact that I happened to have collected an unwholesome hoard of DC
> motors, was a legacy of making myself wind generators, rather than any
> systematic study.
> Cheers Warren
> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
> <https://go.onelink.me/107872968?pid=InProduct&c=Global_Internal_YGrowth_AndroidEmailSig__AndroidUsers&af_wl=ym&af_sub1=Internal&af_sub2=Global_YGrowth&af_sub3=EmailSignature>
>
> On Tue, 29 Jan 2019 at 10:58 AM, Mick [email protected] [EVGRAY]
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
> Kone,
>
> Yes the motors are likely seeing the others as rotary condensers of a sort
> since they are all matched motors, good call!
> On 1/29/2019 10:21 AM, [email protected] [EVGRAY] wrote:
>
>
>
> Hi Warren
> I was thinking today each treadmill motor in daisy chain connected to each
> other through fwbr could be that each motor next in chain is viewed by
> previous motor more as some sort of rotating pulsed capacolitance, rather
> than a resistive inductive load each time...i bet if you put a heavy
> resistor on any of those motors it wpud ruin everything and fact all motors
> spin free and unloaded mafe it work so well. Also each motor sifs the spin
> of the others too something else to think about...
> Kone
>
> 
>

Hi James
That is what I think Warren did; he pulled not only the flyback spike out of each motor and into the next, but also managed to pull some of the backemf forces too because of them being permanent magnet stators in them, so there is the induced generator power too that is extracted from each motor into the next  motor via fwbr A C  legs  across motor A's brushes then motor B is fed the DC out of that fwbr and it keeps on going down the string of motors.
Kone

Hi Warren
Yes I know that you were using some beefy motors in daisy chain experiment, but my point is they are all unloaded with no resistive loading on any of the, except for the resistive load of the next motor in chain and my theory is the next motor acts more like a rotating capacitor rather than resistive load, which would bleed power off. But instead you have that greatly increased power at last motor at end of chain....wat makes it really interesting is never increase in draw with each motor added from what I understand 
I am not saying it is necessary to resistive load any of those motors, how you did it is perfectly fine but just interested how and why it worked so well and if resistive loading a motor kills it and amps input goes up and no extra power on last motor then that is good clue what is going om and also how to ruin experiment if someone wishes to ruin it.
Kone

DougYou have s good question, something more to test.I have no idea why it was working so well, so your guess is just as good as mine, until we probe into it further.At this point, speculation just gets my curiosity cranked up, enough, to beat my way across the heavy snowdrifts, across the barn yard, and up into the unheated second floor storage to bring those motors to my, now heated, workshop.It is -26C and blowing like crazy out there at the moment.I never though I would miss my crowded little basement workshop, in my house in Toronto, where everything was in one place, more or less.It must be hard for you, being scattered across continents, listening to me whine about a little snow, when science is to be done, and we are on our asses, all comfy, and warm, in front of these electronic displays!These funny organisms. These collections of cells, craving for answers to questions.What deviant animals, scratching in our stalls, trying to understand the makeup of the ground under our own manure?And yet, the damn question lurks, there, until we uncover its mystery.Thank you for poking away with your little pitch fork, reminding me what needs to be done.Cheers Warren

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
 
  On Tue, 29 Jan 2019 at 11:33 PM, [email protected] [EVGRAY]<[email protected]> wrote:       
Hi Warren
Yes I know that you were using some beefy motors in daisy chain experiment, but my point is they are all unloaded with no resistive loading on any of the, except for the resistive load of the next motor in chain and my theory is the next motor acts more like a rotating capacitor rather than resistive load, which would bleed power off. But instead you have that greatly increased power at last motor at end of chain....wat makes it really interesting is never increase in draw with each motor added from what I understand 
I am not saying it is necessary to resistive load any of those motors, how you did it is perfectly fine but just interested how and why it worked so well and if resistive loading a motor kills it and amps input goes up and no extra power on last motor then that is good clue what is going om and also how to ruin experiment if someone wishes to ruin it.
Kone
  #yiv5100748663 #yiv5100748663 -- #yiv5100748663ygrp-mkp {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:10px 0;padding:0 10px;}#yiv5100748663 #yiv5100748663ygrp-mkp hr {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;}#yiv5100748663 #yiv5100748663ygrp-mkp #yiv5100748663hd {color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:700;line-height:122%;margin:10px 0;}#yiv5100748663 #yiv5100748663ygrp-mkp #yiv5100748663ads {margin-bottom:10px;}#yiv5100748663 #yiv5100748663ygrp-mkp .yiv5100748663ad {padding:0 0;}#yiv5100748663 #yiv5100748663ygrp-mkp .yiv5100748663ad p {margin:0;}#yiv5100748663 #yiv5100748663ygrp-mkp .yiv5100748663ad a {color:#0000ff;text-decoration:none;}#yiv5100748663 #yiv5100748663ygrp-sponsor #yiv5100748663ygrp-lc {font-family:Arial;}#yiv5100748663 #yiv5100748663ygrp-sponsor #yiv5100748663ygrp-lc #yiv5100748663hd {margin:10px 0px;font-weight:700;font-size:78%;line-height:122%;}#yiv5100748663 #yiv5100748663ygrp-sponsor #yiv5100748663ygrp-lc .yiv5100748663ad {margin-bottom:10px;padding:0 0;}#yiv5100748663 #yiv5100748663actions {font-family:Verdana;font-size:11px;padding:10px 0;}#yiv5100748663 #yiv5100748663activity {background-color:#e0ecee;float:left;font-family:Verdana;font-size:10px;padding:10px;}#yiv5100748663 #yiv5100748663activity span {font-weight:700;}#yiv5100748663 #yiv5100748663activity span:first-child {text-transform:uppercase;}#yiv5100748663 #yiv5100748663activity span a {color:#5085b6;text-decoration:none;}#yiv5100748663 #yiv5100748663activity span span {color:#ff7900;}#yiv5100748663 #yiv5100748663activity span .yiv5100748663underline {text-decoration:underline;}#yiv5100748663 .yiv5100748663attach {clear:both;display:table;font-family:Arial;font-size:12px;padding:10px 0;width:400px;}#yiv5100748663 .yiv5100748663attach div a {text-decoration:none;}#yiv5100748663 .yiv5100748663attach img {border:none;padding-right:5px;}#yiv5100748663 .yiv5100748663attach label {display:block;margin-bottom:5px;}#yiv5100748663 .yiv5100748663attach label a {text-decoration:none;}#yiv5100748663 blockquote {margin:0 0 0 4px;}#yiv5100748663 .yiv5100748663bold {font-family:Arial;font-size:13px;font-weight:700;}#yiv5100748663 .yiv5100748663bold a {text-decoration:none;}#yiv5100748663 dd.yiv5100748663last p a {font-family:Verdana;font-weight:700;}#yiv5100748663 dd.yiv5100748663last p span {margin-right:10px;font-family:Verdana;font-weight:700;}#yiv5100748663 dd.yiv5100748663last p span.yiv5100748663yshortcuts {margin-right:0;}#yiv5100748663 div.yiv5100748663attach-table div div a {text-decoration:none;}#yiv5100748663 div.yiv5100748663attach-table {width:400px;}#yiv5100748663 div.yiv5100748663file-title a, #yiv5100748663 div.yiv5100748663file-title a:active, #yiv5100748663 div.yiv5100748663file-title a:hover, #yiv5100748663 div.yiv5100748663file-title a:visited {text-decoration:none;}#yiv5100748663 div.yiv5100748663photo-title a, #yiv5100748663 div.yiv5100748663photo-title a:active, #yiv5100748663 div.yiv5100748663photo-title a:hover, #yiv5100748663 div.yiv5100748663photo-title a:visited {text-decoration:none;}#yiv5100748663 div#yiv5100748663ygrp-mlmsg #yiv5100748663ygrp-msg p a span.yiv5100748663yshortcuts {font-family:Verdana;font-size:10px;font-weight:normal;}#yiv5100748663 .yiv5100748663green {color:#628c2a;}#yiv5100748663 .yiv5100748663MsoNormal {margin:0 0 0 0;}#yiv5100748663 o {font-size:0;}#yiv5100748663 #yiv5100748663photos div {float:left;width:72px;}#yiv5100748663 #yiv5100748663photos div div {border:1px solid #666666;min-height:62px;overflow:hidden;width:62px;}#yiv5100748663 #yiv5100748663photos div label {color:#666666;font-size:10px;overflow:hidden;text-align:center;white-space:nowrap;width:64px;}#yiv5100748663 #yiv5100748663reco-category {font-size:77%;}#yiv5100748663 #yiv5100748663reco-desc {font-size:77%;}#yiv5100748663 .yiv5100748663replbq {margin:4px;}#yiv5100748663 #yiv5100748663ygrp-actbar div a:first-child {margin-right:2px;padding-right:5px;}#yiv5100748663 #yiv5100748663ygrp-mlmsg {font-size:13px;font-family:Arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif;}#yiv5100748663 #yiv5100748663ygrp-mlmsg table {font-size:inherit;font:100%;}#yiv5100748663 #yiv5100748663ygrp-mlmsg select, #yiv5100748663 input, #yiv5100748663 textarea {font:99% Arial, Helvetica, clean, sans-serif;}#yiv5100748663 #yiv5100748663ygrp-mlmsg pre, #yiv5100748663 code {font:115% monospace;}#yiv5100748663 #yiv5100748663ygrp-mlmsg * {line-height:1.22em;}#yiv5100748663 #yiv5100748663ygrp-mlmsg #yiv5100748663logo {padding-bottom:10px;}#yiv5100748663 #yiv5100748663ygrp-msg p a {font-family:Verdana;}#yiv5100748663 #yiv5100748663ygrp-msg p#yiv5100748663attach-count span {color:#1E66AE;font-weight:700;}#yiv5100748663 #yiv5100748663ygrp-reco #yiv5100748663reco-head {color:#ff7900;font-weight:700;}#yiv5100748663 #yiv5100748663ygrp-reco {margin-bottom:20px;padding:0px;}#yiv5100748663 #yiv5100748663ygrp-sponsor #yiv5100748663ov li a {font-size:130%;text-decoration:none;}#yiv5100748663 #yiv5100748663ygrp-sponsor #yiv5100748663ov li {font-size:77%;list-style-type:square;padding:6px 0;}#yiv5100748663 #yiv5100748663ygrp-sponsor #yiv5100748663ov ul {margin:0;padding:0 0 0 8px;}#yiv5100748663 #yiv5100748663ygrp-text {font-family:Georgia;}#yiv5100748663 #yiv5100748663ygrp-text p {margin:0 0 1em 0;}#yiv5100748663 #yiv5100748663ygrp-text tt {font-size:120%;}#yiv5100748663 #yiv5100748663ygrp-vital ul li:last-child {border-right:none !important;}#yiv5100748663

I'd like to see a motor striped of its windings after its normal input
verses out put characteristics are noted HP ect the rewind and use very
fine wire like 30 gauge or better and just fill it up till no more will fit
tye n use hi voltage balanced by low amps to get the Watts the same
.thenbre measure the ins and outs by the law of more winds more magnetic
strength you should get increased HP.and  geater back EMF .to extract
 using a large dunp cap domyou think that you might be able to eliminate
the  EMF  of the back EMF by removing the energy by the cap ?.drawing it
way ?.using DC this might change the inductance resistance some what .but
results are what tells all .

On Wednesday, January 30, 2019, Warren Keillor [email protected]
[EVGRAY] <[email protected]> wrote:

>
>
> Doug
> You have s good question, something more to test.
> I have no idea why it was working so well, so your guess is just as good
> as mine, until we probe into it further.
> At this point, speculation just gets my curiosity cranked up, enough, to
> beat my way across the heavy snowdrifts, across the barn yard, and up into
> the unheated second floor storage to bring those motors to my, now heated,
> workshop.
> It is -26C and blowing like crazy out there at the moment.
> I never though I would miss my crowded little basement workshop, in my
> house in Toronto, where everything was in one place, more or less.
> It must be hard for you, being scattered across continents, listening to
> me whine about a little snow, when science is to be done, and we are on our
> asses, all comfy, and warm, in front of these electronic displays!
> These funny organisms. These collections of cells, craving for answers to
> questions.
> What deviant animals, scratching in our stalls, trying to understand the
> makeup of the ground under our own manure?
> And yet, the damn question lurks, there, until we uncover its mystery.
> Thank you for poking away with your little pitch fork, reminding me what
> needs to be done.
> Cheers Warren
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
> <https://go.onelink.me/107872968?pid=InProduct&c=Global_Internal_YGrowth_AndroidEmailSig__AndroidUsers&af_wl=ym&af_sub1=Internal&af_sub2=Global_YGrowth&af_sub3=EmailSignature>
>
> On Tue, 29 Jan 2019 at 11:33 PM, [email protected] [EVGRAY]
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
> Hi Warren
> Yes I know that you were using some beefy motors in daisy chain
> experiment, but my point is they are all unloaded with no resistive loading
> on any of the, except for the resistive load of the next motor in chain and
> my theory is the next motor acts more like a rotating capacitor rather than
> resistive load, which would bleed power off. But instead you have that
> greatly increased power at last motor at end of chain....wat makes it
> really interesting is never increase in draw with each motor added from
> what I understand
> I am not saying it is necessary to resistive load any of those motors, how
> you did it is perfectly fine but just interested how and why it worked so
> well and if resistive loading a motor kills it and amps input goes up and
> no extra power on last motor then that is good clue what is going om and
> also how to ruin experiment if someone wishes to ruin it.
> Kone
>
> 
>

He might conceder using Shockley diodes across the bridge diodes to
increase out put .

On Wednesday, January 30, 2019, James Glinski <[email protected]> wrote:

> I'd like to see a motor striped of its windings after its normal input
> verses out put characteristics are noted HP ect the rewind and use very
> fine wire like 30 gauge or better and just fill it up till no more will fit
> tye n use hi voltage balanced by low amps to get the Watts the same
> .thenbre measure the ins and outs by the law of more winds more magnetic
> strength you should get increased HP.and  geater back EMF .to extract
>  using a large dunp cap domyou think that you might be able to eliminate
> the  EMF  of the back EMF by removing the energy by the cap ?.drawing it
> way ?.using DC this might change the inductance resistance some what .but
> results are what tells all .
>
> On Wednesday, January 30, 2019, Warren Keillor
> [email protected] [EVGRAY] <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Doug
>> You have s good question, something more to test.
>> I have no idea why it was working so well, so your guess is just as good
>> as mine, until we probe into it further.
>> At this point, speculation just gets my curiosity cranked up, enough, to
>> beat my way across the heavy snowdrifts, across the barn yard, and up into
>> the unheated second floor storage to bring those motors to my, now heated,
>> workshop.
>> It is -26C and blowing like crazy out there at the moment.
>> I never though I would miss my crowded little basement workshop, in my
>> house in Toronto, where everything was in one place, more or less.
>> It must be hard for you, being scattered across continents, listening to
>> me whine about a little snow, when science is to be done, and we are on our
>> asses, all comfy, and warm, in front of these electronic displays!
>> These funny organisms. These collections of cells, craving for answers to
>> questions.
>> What deviant animals, scratching in our stalls, trying to understand the
>> makeup of the ground under our own manure?
>> And yet, the damn question lurks, there, until we uncover its mystery.
>> Thank you for poking away with your little pitch fork, reminding me what
>> needs to be done.
>> Cheers Warren
>>
>> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
>> <https://go.onelink.me/107872968?pid=InProduct&c=Global_Internal_YGrowth_AndroidEmailSig__AndroidUsers&af_wl=ym&af_sub1=Internal&af_sub2=Global_YGrowth&af_sub3=EmailSignature>
>>
>> On Tue, 29 Jan 2019 at 11:33 PM, [email protected] [EVGRAY]
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Hi Warren
>> Yes I know that you were using some beefy motors in daisy chain
>> experiment, but my point is they are all unloaded with no resistive loading
>> on any of the, except for the resistive load of the next motor in chain and
>> my theory is the next motor acts more like a rotating capacitor rather than
>> resistive load, which would bleed power off. But instead you have that
>> greatly increased power at last motor at end of chain....wat makes it
>> really interesting is never increase in draw with each motor added from
>> what I understand
>> I am not saying it is necessary to resistive load any of those motors,
>> how you did it is perfectly fine but just interested how and why it worked
>> so well and if resistive loading a motor kills it and amps input goes up
>> and no extra power on last motor then that is good clue what is going om
>> and also how to ruin experiment if someone wishes to ruin it.
>> Kone
>>
>> 
>>
>

JamesThe wire on the first daisy chain set of motors was fairly husky.My Bidini wire was also at least 20 gauge , as was the Rene charger.They all worked.My very fine wound coils, not so much, I really asked the same question, but was so far dissapointed.Cheers Warren







Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
 
  On Wed, 30 Jan 2019 at 6:40 PM, James Glinski [email protected] [EVGRAY]<[email protected]> wrote:       
I'd like to see a motor striped of its windings after its normal input verses out put characteristics are noted HP ect the rewind and use very fine wire like 30 gauge or better and just fill it up till no more will fit tye n use hi voltage balanced by low amps to get the Watts the same ..thenbre measure the ins and outs by the law of more winds more magnetic strength you should get increased HP.and  geater back EMF .to extract  using a large dunp cap domyou think that you might be able to eliminate the  EMF  of the back EMF by removing the energy by the cap ?.drawing it way ?.using DC this might change the inductance resistance some what .but results are what tells all .

On Wednesday, January 30, 2019, Warren Keillor [email protected] [EVGRAY] <[email protected]> wrote:


     
Doug
You have s good question, something more to test.I have no idea why it was working so well, so your guess is just as good as mine, until we probe into it further.At this point, speculation just gets my curiosity cranked up, enough, to beat my way across the heavy snowdrifts, across the barn yard, and up into the unheated second floor storage to bring those motors to my, now heated, workshop.It is -26C and blowing like crazy out there at the moment.I never though I would miss my crowded little basement workshop, in my house in Toronto, where everything was in one place, more or less.It must be hard for you, being scattered across continents, listening to me whine about a little snow, when science is to be done, and we are on our asses, all comfy, and warm, in front of these electronic displays!These funny organisms. These collections of cells, craving for answers to questions..What deviant animals, scratching in our stalls, trying to understand the makeup of the ground under our own manure?And yet, the damn question lurks, there, until we uncover its mystery.Thank you for poking away with your little pitch fork, reminding me what needs to be done.Cheers Warren

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
 
  On Tue, 29 Jan 2019 at 11:33 PM, [email protected] [EVGRAY]<[email protected]> wrote:       
Hi Warren
Yes I know that you were using some beefy motors in daisy chain experiment, but my point is they are all unloaded with no resistive loading on any of the, except for the resistive load of the next motor in chain and my theory is the next motor acts more like a rotating capacitor rather than resistive load, which would bleed power off. But instead you have that greatly increased power at last motor at end of chain....wat makes it really interesting is never increase in draw with each motor added from what I understand 
I am not saying it is necessary to resistive load any of those motors, how you did it is perfectly fine but just interested how and why it worked so well and if resistive loading a motor kills it and amps input goes up and no extra power on last motor then that is good clue what is going om and also how to ruin experiment if someone wishes to ruin it.
Kone
    


   
  #yiv2911731962 #yiv2911731962 -- #yiv2911731962ygrp-mkp {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:10px 0;padding:0 10px;}#yiv2911731962 #yiv2911731962ygrp-mkp hr {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;}#yiv2911731962 #yiv2911731962ygrp-mkp #yiv2911731962hd {color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:700;line-height:122%;margin:10px 0;}#yiv2911731962 #yiv2911731962ygrp-mkp #yiv2911731962ads {margin-bottom:10px;}#yiv2911731962 #yiv2911731962ygrp-mkp .yiv2911731962ad {padding:0 0;}#yiv2911731962 #yiv2911731962ygrp-mkp .yiv2911731962ad p {margin:0;}#yiv2911731962 #yiv2911731962ygrp-mkp .yiv2911731962ad a {color:#0000ff;text-decoration:none;}#yiv2911731962 #yiv2911731962ygrp-sponsor #yiv2911731962ygrp-lc {font-family:Arial;}#yiv2911731962 #yiv2911731962ygrp-sponsor #yiv2911731962ygrp-lc #yiv2911731962hd {margin:10px 0px;font-weight:700;font-size:78%;line-height:122%;}#yiv2911731962 #yiv2911731962ygrp-sponsor #yiv2911731962ygrp-lc .yiv2911731962ad {margin-bottom:10px;padding:0 0;}#yiv2911731962 #yiv2911731962actions {font-family:Verdana;font-size:11px;padding:10px 0;}#yiv2911731962 #yiv2911731962activity {background-color:#e0ecee;float:left;font-family:Verdana;font-size:10px;padding:10px;}#yiv2911731962 #yiv2911731962activity span {font-weight:700;}#yiv2911731962 #yiv2911731962activity span:first-child {text-transform:uppercase;}#yiv2911731962 #yiv2911731962activity span a {color:#5085b6;text-decoration:none;}#yiv2911731962 #yiv2911731962activity span span {color:#ff7900;}#yiv2911731962 #yiv2911731962activity span .yiv2911731962underline {text-decoration:underline;}#yiv2911731962 .yiv2911731962attach {clear:both;display:table;font-family:Arial;font-size:12px;padding:10px 0;width:400px;}#yiv2911731962 .yiv2911731962attach div a {text-decoration:none;}#yiv2911731962 .yiv2911731962attach img {border:none;padding-right:5px;}#yiv2911731962 .yiv2911731962attach label {display:block;margin-bottom:5px;}#yiv2911731962 .yiv2911731962attach label a {text-decoration:none;}#yiv2911731962 blockquote {margin:0 0 0 4px;}#yiv2911731962 .yiv2911731962bold {font-family:Arial;font-size:13px;font-weight:700;}#yiv2911731962 .yiv2911731962bold a {text-decoration:none;}#yiv2911731962 dd.yiv2911731962last p a {font-family:Verdana;font-weight:700;}#yiv2911731962 dd.yiv2911731962last p span {margin-right:10px;font-family:Verdana;font-weight:700;}#yiv2911731962 dd.yiv2911731962last p span.yiv2911731962yshortcuts {margin-right:0;}#yiv2911731962 div.yiv2911731962attach-table div div a {text-decoration:none;}#yiv2911731962 div.yiv2911731962attach-table {width:400px;}#yiv2911731962 div.yiv2911731962file-title a, #yiv2911731962 div.yiv2911731962file-title a:active, #yiv2911731962 div.yiv2911731962file-title a:hover, #yiv2911731962 div.yiv2911731962file-title a:visited {text-decoration:none;}#yiv2911731962 div.yiv2911731962photo-title a, #yiv2911731962 div.yiv2911731962photo-title a:active, #yiv2911731962 div.yiv2911731962photo-title a:hover, #yiv2911731962 div.yiv2911731962photo-title a:visited {text-decoration:none;}#yiv2911731962 div#yiv2911731962ygrp-mlmsg #yiv2911731962ygrp-msg p a span.yiv2911731962yshortcuts {font-family:Verdana;font-size:10px;font-weight:normal;}#yiv2911731962 .yiv2911731962green {color:#628c2a;}#yiv2911731962 .yiv2911731962MsoNormal {margin:0 0 0 0;}#yiv2911731962 o {font-size:0;}#yiv2911731962 #yiv2911731962photos div {float:left;width:72px;}#yiv2911731962 #yiv2911731962photos div div {border:1px solid #666666;min-height:62px;overflow:hidden;width:62px;}#yiv2911731962 #yiv2911731962photos div label {color:#666666;font-size:10px;overflow:hidden;text-align:center;white-space:nowrap;width:64px;}#yiv2911731962 #yiv2911731962reco-category {font-size:77%;}#yiv2911731962 #yiv2911731962reco-desc {font-size:77%;}#yiv2911731962 .yiv2911731962replbq {margin:4px;}#yiv2911731962 #yiv2911731962ygrp-actbar div a:first-child {margin-right:2px;padding-right:5px;}#yiv2911731962 #yiv2911731962ygrp-mlmsg {font-size:13px;font-family:Arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif;}#yiv2911731962 #yiv2911731962ygrp-mlmsg table {font-size:inherit;font:100%;}#yiv2911731962 #yiv2911731962ygrp-mlmsg select, #yiv2911731962 input, #yiv2911731962 textarea {font:99% Arial, Helvetica, clean, sans-serif;}#yiv2911731962 #yiv2911731962ygrp-mlmsg pre, #yiv2911731962 code {font:115% monospace;}#yiv2911731962 #yiv2911731962ygrp-mlmsg * {line-height:1.22em;}#yiv2911731962 #yiv2911731962ygrp-mlmsg #yiv2911731962logo {padding-bottom:10px;}#yiv2911731962 #yiv2911731962ygrp-msg p a {font-family:Verdana;}#yiv2911731962 #yiv2911731962ygrp-msg p#yiv2911731962attach-count span {color:#1E66AE;font-weight:700;}#yiv2911731962 #yiv2911731962ygrp-reco #yiv2911731962reco-head {color:#ff7900;font-weight:700;}#yiv2911731962 #yiv2911731962ygrp-reco {margin-bottom:20px;padding:0px;}#yiv2911731962 #yiv2911731962ygrp-sponsor #yiv2911731962ov li a {font-size:130%;text-decoration:none;}#yiv2911731962 #yiv2911731962ygrp-sponsor #yiv2911731962ov li {font-size:77%;list-style-type:square;padding:6px 0;}#yiv2911731962 #yiv2911731962ygrp-sponsor #yiv2911731962ov ul {margin:0;padding:0 0 0 8px;}#yiv2911731962 #yiv2911731962ygrp-text {font-family:Georgia;}#yiv2911731962 #yiv2911731962ygrp-text p {margin:0 0 1em 0;}#yiv2911731962 #yiv2911731962ygrp-text tt {font-size:120%;}#yiv2911731962 #yiv2911731962ygrp-vital ul li:last-child {border-right:none !important;}#yiv2911731962