Long wave IR heating.

https://www.infraredheaters.com/basic.html  Warren and James, good info 
here.

https://www.herschel-infrared.com/how-it-works/types-infrared-heater/

On 12/9/2018 7:31 AM, Norman Wootan wrote:
> https://www.infraredheaters.com/basic.html Warren and James, good info 
> here.
>

Warren, The first time I paid particular attention to these radiant 
heaters was at my Acura Dealership in Arlington, TX where they had this 
system installed. The Service drive through was 100 ft. long X 60 ft. 
wide with 16 ft. overhead ceiling and 4 ea. 12 ft.wide  roll up doors on 
each end. Overhead there are 4 ea. Natural gas fired radiant tubes 80 
ft. long with combustion blower at one end and exhaust vent to roof on 
exhaust end. The flat black (perfect IR emitter) combustion tube was 
mounted in the flat black emitter V trough to direct the energy down to 
the work  floor in a 60 degree radiation pattern. You could walk around 
in the service bay in winter with the doors open and were entirely 
comfortable due to radiant heating.  Very efficient for this type of 
application. The floor radiant system works the very same way but more 
subtle and usually uses circulating hot water. Warren for a barn work 
shop like yours, I would recommend this type of comfort heating.

On 12/9/2018 7:34 AM, Norman Wootan [email protected] [EVGRAY] wrote:
>
> https://www.herschel-infrared.com/how-it-works/types-infrared-heater/
>
> On 12/9/2018 7:31 AM, Norman Wootan wrote:
> > https://www.infraredheaters.com/basic.html Warren and James, good info
> > here.
> >
>
>

Warren!�� You mentioned your plan to lay copper tubing heating loops in 
your concrete floors.� Make note and check out carefully how to do this 
plumbing.� Back in 1947, after WWII, my father had a lawyer friend that 
built a brand new on slab home and had the copper tubing loops in all 
the floors in the house. Great layout for it had a gas fired central hot 
water heater and Grundfos recirculating pumps off a central manifold to 
control the flow to each room.� All ran well for about 5 years, then the 
walls starting to mildew, especially in the various closets. When they 
jack hammered a section of the floor they found that the lime in the 
concrete along with some galvanic action had eaten away the copper 
tubing and leaks were everywhere. Ended up abandoning the whole floor 
heating system and went to central heating furnace. Some one should be 
able to advise you on this problem.� Maybe the type of copper??� Maybe a 
problem of not having a (- negative) charge on the copper?? The long 
haul natural gas transmission lines have a DC power supply that they 
potentialize the entire line with a low voltage negative (-) charge to 
prevent erosion of the steel lines. When submerged in water they have 
the sacrifice zinc plates like you have on your boat.��� Just a 
cautionary note.��� Norm

On 12/10/2018 10:58 AM, Randy H�bert [email protected] [EVGRAY] wrote:
>
> Thanks for the info Warren. Keep us posted on the results of that heat 
> pump. Very curious to see how it all works out.
>
> ------ Original message------
> *From: *Warren Keillor [email protected] [EVGRAY]
> *Date: *Mon, Dec 10, 2018 9:38 AM
> *To: *[email protected];
> *Cc: *
> *Subject:*Re: [EVGRAY] Re: Long wave IR heating.
>
> Hi Norman
>
> We are on it. We put a carefully considered array of tubing down 
> before pouring concrete on the insulated under floor, covered by re- 
> rod. This has been connected to an elevated domestic hot water tank 
> full of glycol and serviced by variable brushless dc pumps, with 
> circuits sensing the local temperature of every quadrant of the floor, 
> only operating as needed.
> The heat pump compressor is out of doors, the other side of 30" of 
> rubblestone rock wall.
> There, the heat pump draws heat from the air, extracting what little 
> is there, and delivers it to the hot water tank inside.
> The heat pump is called an Arctic model MAFP020A
> It is supposed to have a heating capacity of 10.5 KW, with power input 
> of 2.83 KW, a current input of12.86 amps, and a performance COP of 3.71
> This will be tested, and measured, under harsh winter conditions, here 
> in Gananoque, Canada, this winter, to varify these figures, in my 
> application.Stay tuned.
> I am picking up a wood burning stove today, as a back up� should the 
> power be out, as it usually does, about once a week.
> I also have a propane/ gasoline generator 9KW backup plant, on order, 
> much the same as my neighbours use, around here.
> Hopefully we can knit, and fiddle, with quantum physics enough, to 
> squeeze a little black energy differential this way, as experiments 
> progress.
> Meanwhile, I want us to be warm, and comfortable, no matter what 
> happens this winter. We seem to have harvested several years supply of 
> firewood, in just one year, since moving in, from cleaning up fallen 
> limbs, from mature trees.
> I hope this answers some of your questions
> Cheers Warren
> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
> <https://go.onelink.me/107872968?pid=InProduct&c=Global_Internal_YGrowth_AndroidEmailSig__AndroidUsers&af_wl=ym&af_sub1=Internal&af_sub2=Global_YGrowth&af_sub3=EmailSignature>
>
>     On Sun, 9 Dec 2018 at 9:56 AM, Norman Wootan [email protected] [EVGRAY]
>     <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>     Warren, The first time I paid particular attention to these
>     radiant heaters was at my Acura Dealership in Arlington, TX where
>     they had this system installed. The Service drive through was 100
>     ft. long X 60 ft. wide with 16 ft. overhead ceiling and 4 ea. 12
>     ft.wide� roll up doors on each end. Overhead there are 4 ea.
>     Natural gas fired radiant tubes 80 ft. long with combustion blower
>     at one end and exhaust vent to roof on exhaust end. The flat black
>     (perfect IR emitter) combustion tube was mounted in the flat black
>     emitter V trough to direct the energy down to the work� floor in a
>     60 degree radiation pattern. You could walk around in the service
>     bay in winter with the doors open and were entirely comfortable
>     due to radiant heating.� Very efficient for this type of
>     application. The floor radiant system works the very same way but
>     more subtle and usually uses circulating hot water. Warren for a
>     barn work shop like yours, I would recommend this type of comfort
>     heating.
>
>     On 12/9/2018 7:34 AM, Norman Wootan [email protected]
>     <mailto:[email protected]> [EVGRAY] wrote:
>>
>>     https://www.herschel-infrared.com/how-it-works/types-infrared-heater/
>>
>>     On 12/9/2018 7:31 AM, Norman Wootan wrote:
>>     > https://www.infraredheaters.com/basic.html Warren and James,
>>     good info
>>     > here.
>>     >
>>
>

Steve, I feel your pain for I had 52 acres of heavily wood land and had 
6 chain saws and it seemed like they all need oil, gas, chain sharpening 
etc. all the time.  Lol  BTW, sold the farm and moved back to city cause 
I spent all my spare time cutting and maintaining the place.

On 12/10/2018 7:35 AM, [email protected] [EVGRAY] wrote:
>
> Norman
>
>  Years ago I got to know the Owner of a Carpet Manufacturing Plant in 
> Dalton Ga ,He had done his research on heating and had talked to every 
> town and manufacturing company from Maine to Cal.he found that the 
> radiant heater will give more BTU's per therm than a blue flame heater 
> and is even cheaper than Coal I did a little research of My own I have 
> a Wood stove in the Basement just in case the power goes out so I 
> turned off the central heat and air and used the Wood heater for my 
> heat,it only made 20.00 diff in the electric price so for 20.00 diff 
> in 30 days I have better things to do than cut wood and buy Gas for 
> the Chainsaw I can put My energy to use elsewhere and make a bigger 
> impact on my bottom line.
> Steve
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Norman Wootan [email protected] [EVGRAY] <[email protected]>
> To: EVGRAY <[email protected]>
> Sent: Sun, Dec 9, 2018 10:09 am
> Subject: Re: [EVGRAY] Re: Long wave IR heating.
>
>
>
> Warren, The first time I paid particular attention to these radiant 
> heaters was at my Acura Dealership in Arlington, TX where they had 
> this system installed. The Service drive through was 100 ft. long X 60 
> ft. wide with 16 ft. overhead ceiling and 4 ea. 12 ft.wide  roll up 
> doors on each end. Overhead there are 4 ea. Natural gas fired radiant 
> tubes 80 ft. long with combustion blower at one end and exhaust vent 
> to roof on exhaust end. The flat black (perfect IR emitter) combustion 
> tube was mounted in the flat black emitter V trough to direct the 
> energy down to the work  floor in a 60 degree radiation pattern. You 
> could walk around in the service bay in winter with the doors open and 
> were entirely comfortable due to radiant heating. Very efficient for 
> this type of application. The floor radiant system works the very same 
> way but more subtle and usually uses circulating hot water. Warren for 
> a barn work shop like yours, I would recommend this type of comfort 
> heating.
> On 12/9/2018 7:34 AM, Norman Wootan [email protected] 
> <mailto:[email protected]> [EVGRAY] wrote:
> https://www.herschel-infrared.com/how-it-works/types-infrared-heater/
>
> On 12/9/2018 7:31 AM, Norman Wootan wrote:
> > https://www.infraredheaters.com/basic.html Warren and James, good info
> > here.
> >
>
>
>

Norman Years ago I got to know the Owner of a Carpet Manufacturing Plant in Dalton Ga ,He had done his research on heating and had talked to every town and manufacturing company from Maine to Cal.he found that the radiant heater will give more BTU's per therm than a blue flame heater and is even cheaper than Coal I did a little research of My own I have a Wood stove in the Basement just in case the power goes out so I turned off the central heat and air and used the Wood heater for my heat,it only made 20.00 diff in the electric price so for 20.00 diff in 30 days I have better things to do than cut wood and buy Gas for the Chainsaw I can put My energy to use elsewhere and make a bigger impact on my bottom line.Steve


-----Original Message-----
From: Norman Wootan [email protected] [EVGRAY] <[email protected]>
To: EVGRAY <[email protected]>
Sent: Sun, Dec 9, 2018 10:09 am
Subject: Re: [EVGRAY] Re: Long wave IR heating.

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 Warren, The first time I paid particular attention to these radiant heaters was at my Acura Dealership in Arlington, TX where they had this system installed. The Service drive through was 100 ft. long X 60 ft. wide with 16 ft. overhead ceiling and 4 ea. 12 ft.wide  roll up doors on each end. Overhead there are 4 ea. Natural gas fired radiant tubes 80 ft. long with combustion blower at one end and exhaust vent to roof on exhaust end. The flat black (perfect IR emitter) combustion tube was mounted in the flat black emitter V trough to direct the energy down to the work  floor in a 60 degree radiation pattern. You could walk around in the service bay in winter with the doors open and were entirely comfortable due to radiant heating.  Very efficient for this type of application. The floor radiant system works the very same way but more subtle and usually uses circulating hot water. Warren for a  barn work shop like yours, I would recommend this type of comfort heating.
  On 12/9/2018 7:34 AM, Norman Wootan [email protected] [EVGRAY] wrote:
  
 
   https://www.herschel-infrared.com/how-it-works/types-infrared-heater/
 
 On 12/9/2018 7:31 AM, Norman Wootan wrote:
 > https://www.infraredheaters.com/basic.html Warren and James, good info 
 > here.
 >
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Hi NormanWe are on it. We put a carefully considered array of tubing down before pouring concrete on the insulated under floor, covered by re- rod. This has been connected to an elevated domestic hot water tank full of glycol and serviced by variable brushless dc pumps, with circuits sensing the local temperature of every quadrant of the floor, only operating as needed.The heat pump compressor is out of doors, the other side of 30" of rubblestone rock wall.There, the heat pump draws heat from the air, extracting what little is there, and delivers it to the hot water tank inside.
The heat pump is called an Arctic model MAFP020AIt is supposed to have a heating capacity of 10.5 KW, with power input of 2.83 KW, a current input of12.86 amps, and a performance COP of 3.71This will be tested, and measured, under harsh winter conditions, here in Gananoque, Canada, this winter, to varify these figures, in my application.Stay tuned.I am picking up a wood burning stove today, as a back up  should the power be out, as it usually does, about once a week.I also have a propane/ gasoline generator 9KW backup plant, on order, much the same as my neighbours use, around here.Hopefully we can knit, and fiddle, with quantum physics enough, to squeeze a little black energy differential this way, as experiments progress.Meanwhile, I want us to be warm, and comfortable, no matter what happens this winter. We seem to have harvested several years supply of firewood, in just one year, since moving in, from cleaning up fallen limbs, from mature trees.I hope this answers some of your questionsCheers Warren
Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
 
  On Sun, 9 Dec 2018 at 9:56 AM, Norman Wootan [email protected] [EVGRAY]<[email protected]> wrote:       
 

Warren, The first time I paid particular attention to these radiant heaters was at my Acura Dealership in Arlington, TX where they had this system installed. The Service drive through was 100 ft. long X 60 ft. wide with 16 ft. overhead ceiling and 4 ea. 12 ft.wide  roll up doors on each end. Overhead there are 4 ea. Natural gas fired radiant tubes 80 ft. long with combustion blower at one end and exhaust vent to roof on exhaust end. The flat black (perfect IR emitter) combustion tube was mounted in the flat black emitter V trough to direct the energy down to the work  floor in a 60 degree radiation pattern. You could walk around in the service bay in winter with the doors open and were entirely comfortable due to radiant heating.  Very efficient for this type of application. The floor radiant system works the very same way but more subtle and usually uses circulating hot water. Warren for a barn work shop like yours, I would recommend this type of comfort heating.
 
 On 12/9/2018 7:34 AM, Norman Wootan [email protected] [EVGRAY] wrote:
  
    
https://www.herschel-infrared.com/how-it-works/types-infrared-heater/
 
 On 12/9/2018 7:31 AM, Norman Wootan wrote:
 > https://www.infraredheaters.com/basic.html Warren and James, good info 
 > here.
 >
 
  
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SteveAmen! Chain sawing sucks, when you are just keeping warm.Cleaning ash, stacking wood, splitting cordwood, and making kindling, takes up way too much productive time.Then there is oiling the chain saw, changing blades, getting them sharpened, cleaning the spark plug, and trying to start the thing without throwing your shoulder out, at -10C.One of our Labradors loves to go out in a night time blizzard, and bring a big chunk of fire wood from the pile, for just one dog kibble.Cheers Warren
Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
 
  On Mon, 10 Dec 2018 at 8:35 AM, [email protected] [EVGRAY]<[email protected]> wrote:       
Norman
 Years ago I got to know the Owner of a Carpet Manufacturing Plant in Dalton Ga ,He had done his research on heating and had talked to every town and manufacturing company from Maine to Cal.he found that the radiant heater will give more BTU's per therm than a blue flame heater and is even cheaper than Coal I did a little research of My own I have a Wood stove in the Basement just in case the power goes out so I turned off the central heat and air and used the Wood heater for my heat,it only made 20.00 diff in the electric price so for 20.00 diff in 30 days I have better things to do than cut wood and buy Gas for the Chainsaw I can put My energy to use elsewhere and make a bigger impact on my bottom line.Steve


-----Original Message-----
From: Norman Wootan [email protected] [EVGRAY] <[email protected]>
To: EVGRAY <[email protected]>
Sent: Sun, Dec 9, 2018 10:09 am
Subject: Re: [EVGRAY] Re: Long wave IR heating.



 Warren, The first time I paid particular attention to these radiant heaters was at my Acura Dealership in Arlington, TX where they had this system installed. The Service drive through was 100 ft. long X 60 ft. wide with 16 ft. overhead ceiling and 4 ea. 12 ft.wide  roll up doors on each end. Overhead there are 4 ea. Natural gas fired radiant tubes 80 ft. long with combustion blower at one end and exhaust vent to roof on exhaust end. The flat black (perfect IR emitter) combustion tube was mounted in the flat black emitter V trough to direct the energy down to the work  floor in a 60 degree radiation pattern. You could walk around in the service bay in winter with the doors open and were entirely comfortable due to radiant heating.  Very efficient for this type of application. The floor radiant system works the very same way but more subtle and usually uses circulating hot water. Warren for a barn work shop like yours, I would recommend this type of comfort heating.
  On 12/9/2018 7:34 AM, Norman Wootan [email protected] [EVGRAY] wrote:
  
 
   https://www.herschel-infrared.com/how-it-works/types-infrared-heater/
 
 On 12/9/2018 7:31 AM, Norman Wootan wrote:
 > https://www.infraredheaters.com/basic.html Warren and James, good info 
 > here.
 >
   

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Thanks for the info Warren. Keep us posted on the results of that heat pump. Very curious to see how it all works out.

------ Original message------
From: Warren Keillor [email protected] [EVGRAY]
Date: Mon, Dec 10, 2018 9:38 AM
To: [email protected];
Cc:
Subject:Re: [EVGRAY] Re: Long wave IR heating.



Hi Norman

We are on it. We put a carefully considered array of tubing down before pouring concrete on the insulated under floor, covered by re- rod. This has been connected to an elevated domestic hot water tank full of glycol and serviced by variable brushless dc pumps, with circuits sensing the local temperature of every quadrant of the floor, only operating as needed.
The heat pump compressor is out of doors, the other side of 30" of rubblestone rock wall.
There, the heat pump draws heat from the air, extracting what little is there, and delivers it to the hot water tank inside.
The heat pump is called an Arctic model MAFP020A
It is supposed to have a heating capacity of 10.5 KW, with power input of 2.83 KW, a current input of12.86 amps, and a performance COP of 3.71
This will be tested, and measured, under harsh winter conditions, here in Gananoque, Canada, this winter, to varify these figures, in my application.Stay tuned.
I am picking up a wood burning stove today, as a back up  should the power be out, as it usually does, about once a week.
I also have a propane/ gasoline generator 9KW backup plant, on order, much the same as my neighbours use, around here.
Hopefully we can knit, and fiddle, with quantum physics enough, to squeeze a little black energy differential this way, as experiments progress.
Meanwhile, I want us to be warm, and comfortable, no matter what happens this winter. We seem to have harvested several years supply of firewood, in just one year, since moving in, from cleaning up fallen limbs, from mature trees.
I hope this answers some of your questions
Cheers Warren
Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android<https://go.onelink.me/107872968?pid=InProduct&c=Global_Internal_YGrowth_AndroidEmailSig__AndroidUsers&af_wl=ym&af_sub1=Internal&af_sub2=Global_YGrowth&af_sub3=EmailSignature>

On Sun, 9 Dec 2018 at 9:56 AM, Norman Wootan [email protected] [EVGRAY]
<[email protected]> wrote:


Warren, The first time I paid particular attention to these radiant heaters was at my Acura Dealership in Arlington, TX where they had this system installed. The Service drive through was 100 ft. long X 60 ft. wide with 16 ft. overhead ceiling and 4 ea. 12 ft.wide  roll up doors on each end. Overhead there are 4 ea. Natural gas fired radiant tubes 80 ft. long with combustion blower at one end and exhaust vent to roof on exhaust end. The flat black (perfect IR emitter) combustion tube was mounted in the flat black emitter V trough to direct the energy down to the work  floor in a 60 degree radiation pattern. You could walk around in the service bay in winter with the doors open and were entirely comfortable due to radiant heating.  Very efficient for this type of application. The floor radiant system works the very same way but more subtle and usually uses circulating hot water. Warren for a barn work shop like yours, I would recommend this type of comfort heating.

On 12/9/2018 7:34 AM, Norman Wootan [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> [EVGRAY] wrote:


https://www.herschel-infrared.com/how-it-works/types-infrared-heater/

On 12/9/2018 7:31 AM, Norman Wootan wrote:
> https://www.infraredheaters.com/basic.html Warren and James, good info
> here.
>

NormanThanks for the adviceWe used high temperature plastic tubing specially designed to be used for infloor heating, cast inside concrete. The concrete is re- enforced with steel grid, and about 5" thick, making a useful heat capacitor, as well as infrared  radiant emitter. I was worried about being able to leave during the winter, and not worrying about power failure destroying the heating tubes during a freeze up. Hence, the system is using glycol.
All the tubing connections are heat welded together with a special electric tool that clamps over them.The entire system was pressure tested for a week.We shouldn't get much calcification, as the water is reverse osmosis product along with a major component being glycol.Since the tubing is dielectric, as is the fluid, there should not be a galvanic problem.Thank you for the copper tubing concerns, as other might make that error. The houses designed in the Fifties with in floor heating, by Frank Loyd Wright, that I know of, suffered much as you have pointed out.Cheers Warren
Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
 
  On Mon, 10 Dec 2018 at 1:10 PM, Norman Wootan [email protected] [EVGRAY]<[email protected]> wrote:       
 

Warren!�� You mentioned your plan to lay copper tubing heating loops in your concrete floors.� Make note and check out carefully how to do this plumbing.� Back in 1947, after WWII, my father had a lawyer friend that built a brand new on slab home and had the copper tubing loops in all the floors in the house. Great layout for it had a gas fired central hot water heater and Grundfos recirculating pumps off a central manifold to control the flow to each room.� All ran well for about 5 years, then the walls starting to mildew, especially in the various closets. When they jack hammered a section of the floor they found that the lime in the concrete along with some galvanic action had eaten away the copper tubing and leaks were everywhere. Ended up abandoning the whole floor heating system and went to central heating furnace.� Some one should be able to advise you on this problem.� Maybe the type of copper??� Maybe a problem of not having a (- negative) charge on the copper?? The long haul natural gas transmission lines have a DC power supply that they potentialize the entire line with a low voltage negative (-) charge to prevent erosion of the steel lines. When submerged in water they have the sacrifice zinc plates like you have on your boat.��� Just a cautionary note.��� Norm
 
 On 12/10/2018 10:58 AM, Randy H�bert [email protected] [EVGRAY] wrote:
  
 �  
 
  Thanks for the info Warren. Keep us posted on the results of that heat pump. Very curious to see how it all works out.�   
  ------ Original message------ From: Warren Keillor [email protected] [EVGRAY]  Date: Mon, Dec 10, 2018 9:38 AM To: [email protected]; Cc:  Subject:Re: [EVGRAY] Re: Long wave IR heating. 
   �    
Hi Norman
 We are on it. We put a carefully considered array of tubing down before pouring concrete on the insulated under floor, covered by re- rod. This has been connected to an elevated domestic hot water tank full of glycol and serviced by variable brushless dc pumps, with circuits sensing the local temperature of every quadrant of the floor, only operating as needed. The heat pump compressor is out of doors, the other side of 30" of rubblestone rock wall. There, the heat pump draws heat from the air, extracting what little is there, and delivers it to the hot water tank inside.
 The heat pump is called an Arctic model MAFP020A It is supposed to have a heating capacity of 10.5 KW, with power input of 2.83 KW, a current input of12.86 amps, and a performance COP of 3.71 This will be tested, and measured, under harsh winter conditions, here in Gananoque, Canada, this winter, to varify these figures, in my application.Stay tuned. I am picking up a wood burning stove today, as a back up� should the power be out, as it usually does, about once a week. I also have a propane/ gasoline generator 9KW backup plant, on order, much the same as my neighbours use, around here. Hopefully we can knit, and fiddle, with quantum physics enough, to squeeze a little black energy differential this way, as experiments progress. Meanwhile, I want us to be warm, and comfortable, no matter what happens this winter. We seem to have harvested several years supply of firewood, in just one year, since moving in, from cleaning up fallen limbs, from mature trees. I hope this answers some of your questions Cheers Warren
 Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
 
  On Sun, 9 Dec 2018 at 9:56 AM, Norman Wootan [email protected] [EVGRAY] <[email protected]> wrote:    �    
Warren, The first time I paid particular attention to these radiant heaters was at my Acura Dealership in Arlington, TX where they had this system installed. The Service drive through was 100 ft. long X 60 ft. wide with 16 ft. overhead ceiling and 4 ea. 12 ft.wide� roll up doors on each end. Overhead there are 4 ea. Natural gas fired radiant tubes 80  ft. long with combustion blower at one end and exhaust vent to roof on exhaust end. The flat black (perfect IR emitter) combustion tube was mounted in the flat black emitter V trough to direct the energy down to the work� floor in a 60 degree radiation pattern. You could walk around in the service bay in winter with the doors open and were entirely comfortable due to radiant heating.� Very efficient for this type of application. The floor radiant system works the very same way but more subtle and usually uses circulating hot water. Warren for a barn work shop like yours, I would recommend this type of comfort heating.
 
  On 12/9/2018 7:34 AM, Norman Wootan  [email protected] [EVGRAY] wrote:
  
�  
https://www.herschel-infrared.com/how-it-works/types-infrared-heater/
 
 On 12/9/2018 7:31 AM, Norman Wootan wrote:
 > https://www.infraredheaters.com/basic.html Warren and James, good info 
 > here.
 >
 
  
          
       
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