Body
NormanThanks for the adviceWe used high temperature plastic tubing specially designed to be used for infloor heating, cast inside concrete. The concrete is re- enforced with steel grid, and about 5" thick, making a useful heat capacitor, as well as infrared radiant emitter. I was worried about being able to leave during the winter, and not worrying about power failure destroying the heating tubes during a freeze up. Hence, the system is using glycol.
All the tubing connections are heat welded together with a special electric tool that clamps over them.The entire system was pressure tested for a week.We shouldn't get much calcification, as the water is reverse osmosis product along with a major component being glycol.Since the tubing is dielectric, as is the fluid, there should not be a galvanic problem.Thank you for the copper tubing concerns, as other might make that error. The houses designed in the Fifties with in floor heating, by Frank Loyd Wright, that I know of, suffered much as you have pointed out.Cheers Warren
Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
On Mon, 10 Dec 2018 at 1:10 PM, Norman Wootan [email protected] [EVGRAY]<[email protected]> wrote:
Warren!�� You mentioned your plan to lay copper tubing heating loops in your concrete floors.� Make note and check out carefully how to do this plumbing.� Back in 1947, after WWII, my father had a lawyer friend that built a brand new on slab home and had the copper tubing loops in all the floors in the house. Great layout for it had a gas fired central hot water heater and Grundfos recirculating pumps off a central manifold to control the flow to each room.� All ran well for about 5 years, then the walls starting to mildew, especially in the various closets. When they jack hammered a section of the floor they found that the lime in the concrete along with some galvanic action had eaten away the copper tubing and leaks were everywhere. Ended up abandoning the whole floor heating system and went to central heating furnace.� Some one should be able to advise you on this problem.� Maybe the type of copper??� Maybe a problem of not having a (- negative) charge on the copper?? The long haul natural gas transmission lines have a DC power supply that they potentialize the entire line with a low voltage negative (-) charge to prevent erosion of the steel lines. When submerged in water they have the sacrifice zinc plates like you have on your boat.��� Just a cautionary note.��� Norm
On 12/10/2018 10:58 AM, Randy H�bert [email protected] [EVGRAY] wrote:
�
Thanks for the info Warren. Keep us posted on the results of that heat pump. Very curious to see how it all works out.�
------ Original message------ From: Warren Keillor [email protected] [EVGRAY] Date: Mon, Dec 10, 2018 9:38 AM To: [email protected]; Cc: Subject:Re: [EVGRAY] Re: Long wave IR heating.
�
Hi Norman
We are on it. We put a carefully considered array of tubing down before pouring concrete on the insulated under floor, covered by re- rod. This has been connected to an elevated domestic hot water tank full of glycol and serviced by variable brushless dc pumps, with circuits sensing the local temperature of every quadrant of the floor, only operating as needed. The heat pump compressor is out of doors, the other side of 30" of rubblestone rock wall. There, the heat pump draws heat from the air, extracting what little is there, and delivers it to the hot water tank inside.
The heat pump is called an Arctic model MAFP020A It is supposed to have a heating capacity of 10.5 KW, with power input of 2.83 KW, a current input of12.86 amps, and a performance COP of 3.71 This will be tested, and measured, under harsh winter conditions, here in Gananoque, Canada, this winter, to varify these figures, in my application.Stay tuned. I am picking up a wood burning stove today, as a back up� should the power be out, as it usually does, about once a week. I also have a propane/ gasoline generator 9KW backup plant, on order, much the same as my neighbours use, around here. Hopefully we can knit, and fiddle, with quantum physics enough, to squeeze a little black energy differential this way, as experiments progress. Meanwhile, I want us to be warm, and comfortable, no matter what happens this winter. We seem to have harvested several years supply of firewood, in just one year, since moving in, from cleaning up fallen limbs, from mature trees. I hope this answers some of your questions Cheers Warren
Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
On Sun, 9 Dec 2018 at 9:56 AM, Norman Wootan [email protected] [EVGRAY] <[email protected]> wrote: �
Warren, The first time I paid particular attention to these radiant heaters was at my Acura Dealership in Arlington, TX where they had this system installed. The Service drive through was 100 ft. long X 60 ft. wide with 16 ft. overhead ceiling and 4 ea. 12 ft.wide� roll up doors on each end. Overhead there are 4 ea. Natural gas fired radiant tubes 80 ft. long with combustion blower at one end and exhaust vent to roof on exhaust end. The flat black (perfect IR emitter) combustion tube was mounted in the flat black emitter V trough to direct the energy down to the work� floor in a 60 degree radiation pattern. You could walk around in the service bay in winter with the doors open and were entirely comfortable due to radiant heating.� Very efficient for this type of application. The floor radiant system works the very same way but more subtle and usually uses circulating hot water. Warren for a barn work shop like yours, I would recommend this type of comfort heating.
On 12/9/2018 7:34 AM, Norman Wootan [email protected] [EVGRAY] wrote:
�
https://www.herschel-infrared.com/how-it-works/types-infrared-heater/
On 12/9/2018 7:31 AM, Norman Wootan wrote:
> https://www.infraredheaters.com/basic.html Warren and James, good info
> here.
>
#yiv2508962034 #yiv2508962034 -- #yiv2508962034ygrp-mkp {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:10px 0;padding:0 10px;}#yiv2508962034 #yiv2508962034ygrp-mkp hr {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;}#yiv2508962034 #yiv2508962034ygrp-mkp #yiv2508962034hd {color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:700;line-height:122%;margin:10px 0;}#yiv2508962034 #yiv2508962034ygrp-mkp #yiv2508962034ads {margin-bottom:10px;}#yiv2508962034 #yiv2508962034ygrp-mkp .yiv2508962034ad {padding:0 0;}#yiv2508962034 #yiv2508962034ygrp-mkp .yiv2508962034ad p {margin:0;}#yiv2508962034 #yiv2508962034ygrp-mkp .yiv2508962034ad a {color:#0000ff;text-decoration:none;}#yiv2508962034 #yiv2508962034ygrp-sponsor #yiv2508962034ygrp-lc {font-family:Arial;}#yiv2508962034 #yiv2508962034ygrp-sponsor #yiv2508962034ygrp-lc #yiv2508962034hd {margin:10px 0px;font-weight:700;font-size:78%;line-height:122%;}#yiv2508962034 #yiv2508962034ygrp-sponsor #yiv2508962034ygrp-lc .yiv2508962034ad {margin-bottom:10px;padding:0 0;}#yiv2508962034 #yiv2508962034actions {font-family:Verdana;font-size:11px;padding:10px 0;}#yiv2508962034 #yiv2508962034activity {background-color:#e0ecee;float:left;font-family:Verdana;font-size:10px;padding:10px;}#yiv2508962034 #yiv2508962034activity span {font-weight:700;}#yiv2508962034 #yiv2508962034activity span:first-child {text-transform:uppercase;}#yiv2508962034 #yiv2508962034activity span a {color:#5085b6;text-decoration:none;}#yiv2508962034 #yiv2508962034activity span span {color:#ff7900;}#yiv2508962034 #yiv2508962034activity span .yiv2508962034underline {text-decoration:underline;}#yiv2508962034 .yiv2508962034attach {clear:both;display:table;font-family:Arial;font-size:12px;padding:10px 0;width:400px;}#yiv2508962034 .yiv2508962034attach div a {text-decoration:none;}#yiv2508962034 .yiv2508962034attach img {border:none;padding-right:5px;}#yiv2508962034 .yiv2508962034attach label {display:block;margin-bottom:5px;}#yiv2508962034 .yiv2508962034attach label a {text-decoration:none;}#yiv2508962034 blockquote {margin:0 0 0 4px;}#yiv2508962034 .yiv2508962034bold {font-family:Arial;font-size:13px;font-weight:700;}#yiv2508962034 .yiv2508962034bold a {text-decoration:none;}#yiv2508962034 dd.yiv2508962034last p a {font-family:Verdana;font-weight:700;}#yiv2508962034 dd.yiv2508962034last p span {margin-right:10px;font-family:Verdana;font-weight:700;}#yiv2508962034 dd.yiv2508962034last p span.yiv2508962034yshortcuts {margin-right:0;}#yiv2508962034 div.yiv2508962034attach-table div div a {text-decoration:none;}#yiv2508962034 div.yiv2508962034attach-table {width:400px;}#yiv2508962034 div.yiv2508962034file-title a, #yiv2508962034 div.yiv2508962034file-title a:active, #yiv2508962034 div.yiv2508962034file-title a:hover, #yiv2508962034 div.yiv2508962034file-title a:visited {text-decoration:none;}#yiv2508962034 div.yiv2508962034photo-title a, #yiv2508962034 div.yiv2508962034photo-title a:active, #yiv2508962034 div.yiv2508962034photo-title a:hover, #yiv2508962034 div.yiv2508962034photo-title a:visited {text-decoration:none;}#yiv2508962034 div#yiv2508962034ygrp-mlmsg #yiv2508962034ygrp-msg p a span.yiv2508962034yshortcuts {font-family:Verdana;font-size:10px;font-weight:normal;}#yiv2508962034 .yiv2508962034green {color:#628c2a;}#yiv2508962034 .yiv2508962034MsoNormal {margin:0 0 0 0;}#yiv2508962034 o {font-size:0;}#yiv2508962034 #yiv2508962034photos div {float:left;width:72px;}#yiv2508962034 #yiv2508962034photos div div {border:1px solid #666666;min-height:62px;overflow:hidden;width:62px;}#yiv2508962034 #yiv2508962034photos div label {color:#666666;font-size:10px;overflow:hidden;text-align:center;white-space:nowrap;width:64px;}#yiv2508962034 #yiv2508962034reco-category {font-size:77%;}#yiv2508962034 #yiv2508962034reco-desc {font-size:77%;}#yiv2508962034 .yiv2508962034replbq {margin:4px;}#yiv2508962034 #yiv2508962034ygrp-actbar div a:first-child {margin-right:2px;padding-right:5px;}#yiv2508962034 #yiv2508962034ygrp-mlmsg {font-size:13px;font-family:Arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif;}#yiv2508962034 #yiv2508962034ygrp-mlmsg table {font-size:inherit;font:100%;}#yiv2508962034 #yiv2508962034ygrp-mlmsg select, #yiv2508962034 input, #yiv2508962034 textarea {font:99% Arial, Helvetica, clean, sans-serif;}#yiv2508962034 #yiv2508962034ygrp-mlmsg pre, #yiv2508962034 code {font:115% monospace;}#yiv2508962034 #yiv2508962034ygrp-mlmsg * {line-height:1.22em;}#yiv2508962034 #yiv2508962034ygrp-mlmsg #yiv2508962034logo {padding-bottom:10px;}#yiv2508962034 #yiv2508962034ygrp-msg p a {font-family:Verdana;}#yiv2508962034 #yiv2508962034ygrp-msg p#yiv2508962034attach-count span {color:#1E66AE;font-weight:700;}#yiv2508962034 #yiv2508962034ygrp-reco #yiv2508962034reco-head {color:#ff7900;font-weight:700;}#yiv2508962034 #yiv2508962034ygrp-reco {margin-bottom:20px;padding:0px;}#yiv2508962034 #yiv2508962034ygrp-sponsor #yiv2508962034ov li a {font-size:130%;text-decoration:none;}#yiv2508962034 #yiv2508962034ygrp-sponsor #yiv2508962034ov li {font-size:77%;list-style-type:square;padding:6px 0;}#yiv2508962034 #yiv2508962034ygrp-sponsor #yiv2508962034ov ul {margin:0;padding:0 0 0 8px;}#yiv2508962034 #yiv2508962034ygrp-text {font-family:Georgia;}#yiv2508962034 #yiv2508962034ygrp-text p {margin:0 0 1em 0;}#yiv2508962034 #yiv2508962034ygrp-text tt {font-size:120%;}#yiv2508962034 #yiv2508962034ygrp-vital ul li:last-child {border-right:none !important;}#yiv2508962034