Coils cw or ccw. Instead use dot convention.

I'm wondering why people here discusses winding directions of coils.

The easiest way to wind coils is to wind all of them in the same direction. Then when the field or phase is to go in the opposite direction just switch around the pair of wires going to that particular coil. That's the way it is normally done which also prevents unwinding one coil while winding the next coil on the same bobbin. Use the dot convention to mark the ends of the wires and then just switch the sets of wires that are to be of opposite phase. Place the dots in all start ends or alternatively in all finish ends of coils wound in the same direction.
 



 

 Source of the figures: https://www.electricaltechnology.org/2013/12/transformer-phasing-the-dot-notation-and-dot-convention.html https://www.electricaltechnology.org/2013/12/transformer-phasing-the-dot-notation-and-dot-convention.html

Regards
Ole

Norm,

How did you perceive output from this experiment if you collapsed the E
and B vectors to 0 ?     In the EH antenna literature they talk about a
system like this (the Russian predecessor to the EH) where two
transceivers can communicate on an otherwise hidden channel.


On 9/30/2018 6:17 AM, Norman Wootan [email protected] [EVGRAY] wrote:
>  
>
> Ole!  Nice try but no cigar here.  Please rethink your scenario.  At
> first appearance to the neophyte, that does not understand mirror
> symmetry and total phase cancellation, your solution seams like a
> winner. NOT!  After studying Tesla's huge pancake coil and how it
> worked I built my two counter wound coils each with an impedance of 8
> ohms.  You absolutely have to have the mirror symmetry in order to
> totally phase cancel the vectors of the AC driving signal.  Think
> about the traveling AC sine wave over the two coils in mirror
> proximity. Supposedly electrons travel 11.75 inches / nano second.
> Lets realize that each foot of wire traveled there is a phase shift in
> the AC sine wave that absolutely has to be perfectly mirrored to
> effectively phase cancel the shifting phase angles of the two
> vectors.  I have been there and done this and it works.  Example was
> the two coils I built and by shear luck got perfect symmetry and
> cancellation resulting in no vectors and what I perceived as a
> longitudinal output with no magnetic field nor electrical field! 
> Think about this!!
>
>
> On 9/30/2018 6:01 AM, [email protected] [EVGRAY] wrote:
>>  
>>
>> I'm wondering why people here discusses winding directions of coils.
>>
>> The easiest way to wind coils is to wind all of them in the same
>> direction. Then when the field or phase is to go in the opposite
>> direction just switch around the pair of wires going to that
>> particular coil. That's the way it is normally done which also
>> prevents unwinding one coil while winding the next coil on the same
>> bobbin. Use the dot convention to mark the ends of the wires and then
>> just switch the sets of wires that are to be of opposite phase. Place
>> the dots in all start ends or alternatively in all finish ends of
>> coils wound in the same direction.
>>
>>
>> The Dot Notation and Dot ConventionTransformer Phasing: he Dot
>> Notation and Dot Convention
>> The Dot Notation and Dot Convention
>>
>>
>> Source of the figures:
>> https://www.electricaltechnology.org/2013/12/transformer-phasing-the-dot-notation-and-dot-convention.html
>>
>> Regards
>> Ole
>>
>
>

Ole!  Nice try but no cigar here.  Please rethink your scenario. At 
first appearance to the neophyte, that does not understand mirror 
symmetry and total phase cancellation, your solution seams like a 
winner. NOT!  After studying Tesla's huge pancake coil and how it worked 
I built my two counter wound coils each with an impedance of 8 ohms.  
You absolutely have to have the mirror symmetry in order to totally 
phase cancel the vectors of the AC driving signal.  Think about the 
traveling AC sine wave over the two coils in mirror proximity. 
Supposedly electrons travel 11.75 inches / nano second. Lets realize 
that each foot of wire traveled there is a phase shift in the AC sine 
wave that absolutely has to be perfectly mirrored to effectively phase 
cancel the shifting phase angles of the two vectors.  I have been there 
and done this and it works.  Example was the two coils I built and by 
shear luck got perfect symmetry and cancellation resulting in no vectors 
and what I perceived as a longitudinal output with no magnetic field nor 
electrical field!  Think about this!!


On 9/30/2018 6:01 AM, [email protected] [EVGRAY] wrote:
>
> I'm wondering why people here discusses winding directions of coils.
>
> The easiest way to wind coils is to wind all of them in the same 
> direction. Then when the field or phase is to go in the opposite 
> direction just switch around the pair of wires going to that 
> particular coil. That's the way it is normally done which also 
> prevents unwinding one coil while winding the next coil on the same 
> bobbin. Use the dot convention to mark the ends of the wires and then 
> just switch the sets of wires that are to be of opposite phase. Place 
> the dots in all start ends or alternatively in all finish ends of 
> coils wound in the same direction.
>
>
> The Dot Notation and Dot ConventionTransformer Phasing: he Dot 
> Notation and Dot Convention
> The Dot Notation and Dot Convention
>
>
> Source of the figures: 
> https://www.electricaltechnology.org/2013/12/transformer-phasing-the-dot-notation-and-dot-convention.html
>
> Regards
> Ole
>
>

Ole,

I can clearly picture Norm's claim of the vectors not cancelling without
the mirror symmetry, if one takes into account both the transverse and
longitudinal. 

Think of Wheeler Feynman time symmetry.




On 9/30/2018 6:48 AM, [email protected] [EVGRAY] wrote:
>  
>
> Hi Norman,
>
> This is transmission line theory which has to be applied when the
> wavelength approaches the dimensions of the circuit. A Tesla
> transformer is to be treated as a transmission line transformer where
> the waves are guided by the wire and are around or even shorter than
> the length of the wire. For LF transformers like mains frequency
> transformers this doesn't matter. For a hi-fi audio frequency
> transformer perhaps it may have some influence. At least it is an art
> to design such a transformer because of all the parasitic parts it is
> made up of.
>
> Your 8 Ohm coils only have this impedance at one particular frequency
> as the impedance increases with the frequency. The parasitic DC
> resistance is the minimum impedance they will get.
>
> Regards
> Ole
>
>
> ---In [email protected], <nwootan@...> wrote :
>
> Ole!  Nice try but no cigar here.  Please rethink your scenario.  At
> first appearance to the neophyte, that does not understand mirror
> symmetry and total phase cancellation, your solution seams like a
> winner. NOT!  After studying Tesla's huge pancake coil and how it
> worked I built my two counter wound coils each with an impedance of 8
> ohms.  You absolutely have to have the mirror symmetry in order to
> totally phase cancel the vectors of the AC driving signal.  Think
> about the traveling AC sine wave over the two coils in mirror
> proximity. Supposedly electrons travel 11.75 inches / nano second.
> Lets realize that each foot of wire traveled there is a phase shift in
> the AC sine wave that absolutely has to be perfectly mirrored to
> effectively phase cancel the shifting phase angles of the two
> vectors.  I have been there and done this and it works.  Example was
> the two coils I built and by shear luck got perfect symmetry and
> cancellation resulting in no vectors and what I perceived as a
> longitudinal output with no magnetic field nor electrical field! 
> Think about this!!
>
>
> On 9/30/2018 6:01 AM, onielsen@... <mailto:onielsen@...> [EVGRAY] wrote:
>
>>      
>>
>>     I'm wondering why people here discusses winding directions of coils.
>>
>>     The easiest way to wind coils is to wind all of them in the same
>>     direction. Then when the field or phase is to go in the opposite
>>     direction just switch around the pair of wires going to that
>>     particular coil. That's the way it is normally done which also
>>     prevents unwinding one coil while winding the next coil on the
>>     same bobbin. Use the dot convention to mark the ends of the wires
>>     and then just switch the sets of wires that are to be of opposite
>>     phase. Place the dots in all start ends or alternatively in all
>>     finish ends of coils wound in the same direction.
>>
>>
>>     The Dot Notation and Dot ConventionTransformer Phasing: he Dot
>>     Notation and Dot Convention
>>     The Dot Notation and Dot Convention
>>
>>
>>     Source of the figures:
>>     https://www.electricaltechnology.org/2013/12/transformer-phasing-the-dot-notation-and-dot-convention.html
>>
>>     Regards
>>     Ole
>>
>
>

Several weeks ago we had this very same discussion!    In one of my very 
early salavage hunting expiditions, I acquired a very old US Gov. 
suveryers compass which was about 6 inches in diameter and was so 
sensitive that I could not take it on hunting trip cause my shotgun 
being anywhere around it would cuse it to deflest!  was handy to detect 
even the smallest magnet flux fields. The Electromagnetic field strength 
meter was similar to the one in the photo below.

http://www.fleaglass.com/ads/large-surveying-compass-troughton/

https://www.ebay.com/itm/122085403001


On 9/30/2018 10:00 AM, Mick [email protected] [EVGRAY] wrote:
>
> Norm,
>
> How did you perceive output from this experiment if you collapsed the 
> E and B vectors to 0 ?     In the EH antenna literature they talk 
> about a system like this (the Russian predecessor to the EH) where two 
> transceivers can communicate on an otherwise hidden channel.
>
>
> On 9/30/2018 6:17 AM, Norman Wootan [email protected] [EVGRAY] wrote:
>>
>> Ole!  Nice try but no cigar here.  Please rethink your scenario.  At 
>> first appearance to the neophyte, that does not understand mirror 
>> symmetry and total phase cancellation, your solution seams like a 
>> winner. NOT!  After studying Tesla's huge pancake coil and how it 
>> worked I built my two counter wound coils each with an impedance of 8 
>> ohms.  You absolutely have to have the mirror symmetry in order to 
>> totally phase cancel the vectors of the AC driving signal.  Think 
>> about the traveling AC sine wave over the two coils in mirror 
>> proximity. Supposedly electrons travel 11.75 inches / nano second. 
>> Lets realize that each foot of wire traveled there is a phase shift 
>> in the AC sine wave that absolutely has to be perfectly mirrored to 
>> effectively phase cancel the shifting phase angles of the two 
>> vectors.  I have been there and done this and it works.  Example was 
>> the two coils I built and by shear luck got perfect symmetry and 
>> cancellation resulting in no vectors and what I perceived as a 
>> longitudinal output with no magnetic field nor electrical field!  
>> Think about this!!
>>
>>
>> On 9/30/2018 6:01 AM, [email protected] [EVGRAY] wrote:
>>>
>>> I'm wondering why people here discusses winding directions of coils.
>>>
>>> The easiest way to wind coils is to wind all of them in the same 
>>> direction. Then when the field or phase is to go in the opposite 
>>> direction just switch around the pair of wires going to that 
>>> particular coil. That's the way it is normally done which also 
>>> prevents unwinding one coil while winding the next coil on the same 
>>> bobbin. Use the dot convention to mark the ends of the wires and 
>>> then just switch the sets of wires that are to be of opposite phase. 
>>> Place the dots in all start ends or alternatively in all finish ends 
>>> of coils wound in the same direction.
>>>
>>>
>>> The Dot Notation and Dot ConventionTransformer Phasing: he Dot 
>>> Notation and Dot Convention
>>> The Dot Notation and Dot Convention
>>>
>>>
>>> Source of the figures: 
>>> https://www.electricaltechnology.org/2013/12/transformer-phasing-the-dot-notation-and-dot-convention.html
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> Ole
>>>
>>
>
>

OleI didn't have a clue about the dot convention on transformers, so when I reported results of my Rotorverter experiment, I failed to include which portion of the sine wave was happening as the result of the transformer in series with the capacitor windings. Although it still worked for me, it may have posed difficulties, that I might not have been aware of, just because my random selection of transformer from the crate of used transformers, in my storage area.There was not a thought in my head as to what way each and every winding was wound in the multi tap transformer, or multi wound, for that matter, as I just used my multi meter to measure the ratio of input to output, if indeed, it was even the input. Duh, it was simply a transformer that worked, OK.What a minefield one walks, when you you know more about a subject.I end up just trying things that I assume should work, when in fact I haven't even a clue that there are proper rules to "engineer" the results each time, every time.Now I shall treat each unknown transformer as a mystery, until identified on the scope.Thank youCheers Warren

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
 
  On Sun, 30 Sep 2018 at 7:05 AM, [email protected] [EVGRAY]<[email protected]> wrote:       
I'm wondering why people here discusses winding directions of coils.

The easiest way to wind coils is to wind all of them in the same direction. Then when the field or phase is to go in the opposite direction just switch around the pair of wires going to that particular coil. That's the way it is normally done which also prevents unwinding one coil while winding the next coil on the same bobbin. Use the dot convention to mark the ends of the wires and then just switch the sets of wires that are to be of opposite phase. Place the dots in all start ends or alternatively in all finish ends of coils wound in the same direction.










Source of the figures: https://www.electricaltechnology.org/2013/12/transformer-phasing-the-dot-notation-and-dot-convention.html

Regards
Ole


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Hi Norman,

This is transmission line theory which has to be applied when the wavelength approaches the dimensions of the circuit. A Tesla transformer is to be treated as a transmission line transformer where the waves are guided by the wire and are around or even shorter than the length of the wire. For LF transformers like mains frequency transformers this doesn't matter. For a hi-fi audio frequency transformer perhaps it may have some influence. At least it is an art to design such a transformer because of all the parasitic parts it is made up of.

Your 8 Ohm coils only have this impedance at one particular frequency as the impedance increases with the frequency. The parasitic DC resistance is the minimum impedance they will get.

Regards
Ole


---In [email protected], <nwootan@...> wrote :

 Ole!  Nice try but no cigar here.  Please rethink your scenario.  At first appearance to the neophyte, that does not understand mirror symmetry and total phase cancellation, your solution seams like a winner. NOT!  After studying Tesla's huge pancake coil and how it worked I built my two counter wound coils each with an impedance of 8 ohms.  You absolutely have to have the mirror symmetry in order to totally phase cancel the vectors of the AC driving signal.  Think about the traveling AC sine wave over the two coils in mirror proximity. Supposedly electrons travel 11.75 inches / nano second. Lets realize that each foot of wire traveled there is a phase shift in the AC sine wave that absolutely has to be perfectly mirrored to effectively phase cancel the shifting phase angles of the two vectors.  I have been there and done this and it works.  Example was the two coils I built and by shear luck got perfect symmetry and cancellation resulting in no vectors and what I perceived as a longitudinal output with no magnetic field nor electrical field!  Think about this!!
 
 
 On 9/30/2018 6:01 AM, onielsen@... mailto:onielsen@... [EVGRAY] wrote:
 
   I'm wondering why people here discusses winding directions of coils.
 
 The easiest way to wind coils is to wind all of them in the same direction. Then when the field or phase is to go in the opposite direction just switch around the pair of wires going to that particular coil. That's the way it is normally done which also prevents unwinding one coil while winding the next coil on the same bobbin. Use the dot convention to mark the ends of the wires and then just switch the sets of wires that are to be of opposite phase. Place the dots in all start ends or alternatively in all finish ends of coils wound in the same direction.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 Source of the figures: https://www.electricaltechnology.org/2013/12/transformer-phasing-the-dot-notation-and-dot-convention.html https://www.electricaltechnology.org/2013/12/transformer-phasing-the-dot-notation-and-dot-convention.html
 
 Regards
 Ole

Well ole the mini Tesla towers have them like his patents have them CW and
ccw .but they don't have spark gaps either . I think some of his patents
used hivoltage DC motors for source and no spark gaps ?
On Sep 30, 2018 12:32 PM, "Norman Wootan [email protected] [EVGRAY]" <
[email protected]> wrote:

>
>
> Several weeks ago we had this very same discussion!    In one of my very
> early salavage hunting expiditions, I acquired a very old US Gov. suveryers
> compass which was about 6 inches in diameter and was so sensitive that I
> could not take it on hunting trip cause my shotgun being anywhere around it
> would cuse it to deflest!  was handy to detect even the smallest magnet
> flux fields. The Electromagnetic field strength meter was similar to the
> one in the photo below.
>
> http://www.fleaglass.com/ads/large-surveying-compass-troughton/
>
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/122085403001
>
> On 9/30/2018 10:00 AM, Mick [email protected] [EVGRAY] wrote:
>
>
>
> Norm,
>
> How did you perceive output from this experiment if you collapsed the E
> and B vectors to 0 ?     In the EH antenna literature they talk about a
> system like this (the Russian predecessor to the EH) where two transceivers
> can communicate on an otherwise hidden channel.
>
> On 9/30/2018 6:17 AM, Norman Wootan [email protected] [EVGRAY] wrote:
>
>
>
> Ole!  Nice try but no cigar here.  Please rethink your scenario.  At first
> appearance to the neophyte, that does not understand mirror symmetry and
> total phase cancellation, your solution seams like a winner. NOT!  After
> studying Tesla's huge pancake coil and how it worked I built my two counter
> wound coils each with an impedance of 8 ohms.  You absolutely have to have
> the mirror symmetry in order to totally phase cancel the vectors of the AC
> driving signal.  Think about the traveling AC sine wave over the two coils
> in mirror proximity. Supposedly electrons travel 11.75 inches / nano
> second. Lets realize that each foot of wire traveled there is a phase shift
> in the AC sine wave that absolutely has to be perfectly mirrored to
> effectively phase cancel the shifting phase angles of the two vectors.  I
> have been there and done this and it works.  Example was the two coils I
> built and by shear luck got perfect symmetry and cancellation resulting in
> no vectors and what I perceived as a longitudinal output with no magnetic
> field nor electrical field!  Think about this!!
>
> On 9/30/2018 6:01 AM, [email protected] [EVGRAY] wrote:
>
>
>
> I'm wondering why people here discusses winding directions of coils.
>
> The easiest way to wind coils is to wind all of them in the same
> direction. Then when the field or phase is to go in the opposite direction
> just switch around the pair of wires going to that particular coil. That's
> the way it is normally done which also prevents unwinding one coil while
> winding the next coil on the same bobbin. Use the dot convention to mark
> the ends of the wires and then just switch the sets of wires that are to be
> of opposite phase. Place the dots in all start ends or alternatively in all
> finish ends of coils wound in the same direction.
>
>
> [image: The Dot Notation and Dot Convention][image: Transformer Phasing:
> he Dot Notation and Dot Convention]
> [image: The Dot Notation and Dot Convention]
>
>
> Source of the figures: https://www.electricaltechnology.org/2013/
> 12/transformer-phasing-the-dot-notation-and-dot-convention.html
>
> Regards
> Ole
>
>
>
>
> 
>

thats a fact that over 200 same make same manufacturer same model and specifications microwave transformers only 3 were a matched trio ...for the zeus lamp experiment ... (Zeropoint Energy User System )

that is why i don't specify parts neither values as nothing comes in .003 tolerance required for ZPE & RE work ,,,

(tuning and matching parts is user required )....

(H) 

---In [email protected], <schoonersolsticemoon@...> wrote :

 Ole I didn't have a clue about the dot convention on transformers, so when I reported results of my Rotorverter experiment, I failed to include which portion of the sine wave was happening as the result of the transformer in series with the capacitor windings. Although it still worked for me, it may have posed difficulties, that I might not have been aware of, just because my random selection of transformer from the crate of used transformers, in my storage area.
 There was not a thought in my head as to what way each and every winding was wound in the multi tap transformer, or multi wound, for that matter, as I just used my multi meter to measure the ratio of input to output, if indeed, it was even the input. 
 Duh, it was simply a transformer that worked, OK.
 What a minefield one walks, when you you know more about a subject.
 I end up just trying things that I assume should work, when in fact I haven't even a clue that there are proper rules to "engineer" the results each time, every time.
 Now I shall treat each unknown transformer as a mystery, until identified on the scope.
 Thank you
 Cheers Warren

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 On Sun, 30 Sep 2018 at 7:05 AM, onielsen@... [EVGRAY]
 <[email protected]> wrote:
 
   I'm wondering why people here discusses winding directions of coils.

The easiest way to wind coils is to wind all of them in the same direction. Then when the field or phase is to go in the opposite direction just switch around the pair of wires going to that particular coil. That's the way it is normally done which also prevents unwinding one coil while winding the next coil on the same bobbin. Use the dot convention to mark the ends of the wires and then just switch the sets of wires that are to be of opposite phase. Place the dots in all start ends or alternatively in all finish ends of coils wound in the same direction.

 



 

 Source of the figures: https://www.electricaltechnology.org/2013/12/transformer-phasing-the-dot-notation-and-dot-convention.html https://www.electricaltechnology.org/2013/12/transformer-phasing-the-dot-notation-and-dot-convention.html

Regards
Ole