Re: [EVGRAY] Re: multipacting and secondary emission electron multiplication

Database ID: 111454
2018-12-29T14:08:11+00:00
Warren Keillor <[email protected]>

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HectorHave you ever heard of wearing pearls in front of swine?I have to sort of blink, and go "Duh?"
with your heroic cinder block toss, because I am not sure exactly what you are talking about, except, where the extra energy, we find coming out of the RV, is coming from?The side band carrier wave of a frequency modulated transmitter?There are lots of words there.Let us look what we are doing.We take a 5 amp 12 volt lead acid battery and connect a 12 volt to 120 volt ac inverter to it, producing 125 watts of 120 ac?(of course you can't start a 3 hp RV on that supply, you get it up to speed using the grid, then switch over, while at 1780 rpm) now tuning the RV capacitors to the least draw, say, 200ma@ 120 volts?Now on your capacitor circuit you have a single pole single throw switch shunted off in series.Also connected to the terminals of that same switch, is a multi purpose hardware store transformer primary pair of wires.While the RV is at full speed, you open the shunted switch, putting the primary windings into the capacitance circuit of the RV.In the numerous secondary options of that transformer, there is a 12.8 volts, measured, coming out.Put a bridge diode rectifier on that turning the ac, to dc.Put a dc load on that secondary, tuning your capacitance running the RV to minimum amperage draw.( this pre-supposes that you have made a good, well built, capacitor tuning box, with proper switches, and hard wired, rather than screwing about with jumpers, and alligator clips!)You then find you put in from the battery 1.5 amps, at 12 volts dc, and get 2.5 amps dc 12 volts dc, at the load.So where is this FM sideband coming out of? And what do you mean by that, anyway.Remember, you are not just talking to me, you are addressing the world, so keep your explanation in small practical words, so others will understand, too.Cheers Warren
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  On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 at 7:52 AM, [email protected] [EVGRAY]<[email protected]> wrote:       
Power factor in a sense is a side band FM modulation of the ac power carrier frequency ...as power factor shifts the phase angle so also the frequency ....

There! i threw the cinder block in the store front window ! 

that is how the RV virtual phase is created ! 


(H) 





---In [email protected], <onielsen@...> wrote :

Hi Mick,

I didn't know that a spark gap creates FM modulation. But the secondary breakdown through the semiconducting crystal behaves like a spark gap with its negative resistance characteristic. The modulation must depend on the external circuit. The breakdown can be triggered by the base or just by reaching the breakdown voltage of the device.

Regards
Ole


---In [email protected], <mkjekyll@...> wrote :


Ole, 


Thanks for the good info.


Do you know if a high speed avalanche transistor creates an FMmodulation as does a spark gap?

On 12/28/2018 2:16 PM,onielsen@... [EVGRAY] wrote:



 
Hi Mick,

"Can you explain how and ifavalanche currents in certain transistors can
mimic multipaction and the electron multiplication ofsecondary emission?"
The second breakdown acts like anavalanche that can't be stopped except by disrupting thecurrent from outside the transistor. The first breakdownis kind of like the Zener effect while the secondarybreakdown is a negative resistance characteristic wherethe transistor shorts.

"You mentioned awhile back aconcept of power multiplication through
avalanche mode rather than resonance as the systemcould be much less
finicky.  Could you elaborate on this concept?"
The avalanche is like a solid state spark gap and happensvery fast like in a few nsec or less.
https://wiki2.org/en/Avalanche_transistor

Bipolar transistors optimized to be used in avalanchemode: https://www.diodes.com/products/discrete/bipolar-transistors/special-function-transistors/avalanche-transistors/
Normal bipolar transistors aren't optimized for avalanchemode operation and their breakdown parameters may vary alot even having the same type number. They'll still showthe breakdown effect.

Understanding Power Transistors Breakdown Parameters: https://www.onsemi.com/pub/Collateral/AN1628-D.PDF

"It is interesting to notethat during multipaction events much of the
technology present is designed to limit theamplification event to
prevent damage to the devices."
If the device melts or explodes it's no longer useful.This is a good reason for limiting the effect. This meansthe current must be limited or cut off from the outside asthe device can't do it after being triggered.

Regards
Ole



--In [email protected], <mkjekyll@...> wrote :

Ole,

Can you explain how and if avalanche currents in certaintransistors can
mimic multipaction and the electron multiplication ofsecondary emission?

You mentioned awhile back a concept of powermultiplication through
avalanche mode rather than resonance as the system couldbe much less
finicky.  Could you elaborate on this concept?

It is interesting to note that during multipactionevents much of the
technology present is designed to limit theamplification event to
prevent damage to the devices.

Great data here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multipactor_effect

More intense version:

https://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1112/1112.2176.pdf


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