Re: [EVGRAY] J ² = 1

Database ID: 110760
2018-11-23T16:53:30-08:00

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In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>

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Ole,

Looks like feed forward compensation, sorry wish I could read Danish but
looks like something fun to try.  Current amps have high bandwidth but
in my experience more dc offset from the common emitter input. 

On 11/23/2018 1:33 PM, [email protected] [EVGRAY] wrote:
>  
>
> Hi Mick,
>
> The compensation network sits at the input end of the amplifier. As
> for oscilloscope probe compensations they can be placed at either end
> of the probe cable. As long as the output signal of the speaker is an
> amplified copy of the input signal at the source the compensation does
> its job fine. For an audio amplifier the signal at the speaker
> terminals should be an amplified copy of the signal at the source. If
> placing the compensation at the output end a lot of power is wasted.
> The compensation has its own battery powered amplifier to keep the
> signal level unchanged. The principle is shown in figure 4 here:
> https://ipaper.ipapercms.dk/TechMedia/AktuelElektronik/2007/13/?page=6.
> The compensation (roll-off correction in the article) is inserted in
> the signal chain as shown in figure 3. Figure 2 shows the signals
> without the compensation. His version is switched in steps while
> oscilloscope probes use a variable capacitor.
>
> It is told that by putting resistance in series with the speaker the
> sound is improved. This makes a voltage amplifier act more like a
> current amplifier.
>
> There is an old B&O speaker with high damping that sounds very good
> but wastes a lot of power. It requires quite much power just to
> operate that model at moderate level because of its high damping. I
> don't know if it is damped by resistance or if it is mechanical damped
> or both. A good way of driving a speaker is with a current amplifier
> like used in scopes for their high bandwidth. Of course the output
> current must be greater for driving a speaker. Current amplifiers can
> be made quite simple if using matched pairs of transistors and the
> bandwidth can be something like 40MHZ for standard transistors. This
> is fast enough to give a very good replication of the finer details of
> an audio signal.
>
> Regards
> Ole
>
>
>
> ---In [email protected], <mkjekyll@...> wrote :
>
> Hi Ole,
>
> Same concept we use when designing a zobel network for a transformer
> in a mic preamp.  I suppose this magic device sits near the speaker.  
> I have a hard time believing this would do much with most dynamic
> speakers as the mechanical impedance and reactance makes a square wave
> hard to recognize.  On an electrostatic speaker though one can see a
> pretty good square wave however that is one huge capacitor compared to
> some trimmer so likely would require a tunable inductor in line with
> the step up transformer.  Of course I am referring to using a
> laboratory mic for looking at the square wave not just a probe across
> the speaker terminals.
>
>
> On 11/22/2018 11:29 AM, onielsen@... <mailto:onielsen@...> [EVGRAY] wrote:
>
>>      
>>
>>     Hi Andreas,
>>
>>     Yahoo doesn't like to transfer the complete messages today even
>>     though the delay isn't too great. I completed the message history
>>     from the picture and hope it gets through.
>>
>>     To make your own BNC feed through get one male and one female 50
>>     Ohm connector and an inductance free 50 Ohm resistor. Then
>>     connect them all in parallel. Instead of one 50 Ohm resistor
>>     perhaps use two100 Ohm resistors in parallel. The resistors must
>>     be able to dissipate the power at the max voltage across them.
>>     With a low impedance current shunt this voltage won't be great.
>>     The 50 Ohm feed through must be placed as close as possible to
>>     the input of the scope's input amplifier which means the BNC
>>     input terminal of the scope.
>>
>>     For high speed oscilloscope probes the inner conductor of the
>>     coax cables are made of resistive wire to dissipate energy along
>>     the wire. This reduces reflections when the signal reaches the
>>     ends of the cable.
>>
>>     I know of a compensation device like used in oscilloscope probes
>>     (i.e. like 1:10, 1:20, 1:50, 1:100 etc.). But this device is for
>>     audio signals. He tells that when it's correct adjusted the sound
>>     picture has depth end everything placed correct. He got the idea
>>     from oscilloscope probes where you want to see the signal on the
>>     screen like how it is at the probe tip. Never mind how it looks
>>     along the signal path as long as the end result is correct.
>>     That's what the compensation is for. I.e. when the compensation
>>     is correct adjusted an input square wave looks like a square wave
>>     on the screen. Without the compensation the corners of the square
>>     wave are round. With too much compensation the corners becomes
>>     pin shaped.
>>
>>     Regards
>>     Ole
>>
>>
>>
>>     ---In [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>,
>>     <freeen2012@...> <mailto:freeen2012@...> wrote :
>>
>>     Hi Ole,
>>
>>>         On 22 Nov 2018, at 18:51, onielsen@... <mailto:onielsen@...>
>>>         [EVGRAY] <[email protected]
>>>         <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
>>>
>>>         Both ways can be used. For low inductance of a current shunt
>>>         let the return wire go close to and in parallel with the
>>>         shunt resistor to minimize any area for the magnetic field.
>>>
>>>         Here the return wire is twisted around the current shunt.
>>>
>>>         Also the 50 Ohm feed through is necessary. Without it a lot
>>>         of reflections will happen unless the scope itself has a 50
>>>         Ohm input. As scope inputs usually are 1M Ohm the signal w
>>>         ill be reflected due to the great impedance mismatch from
>>>         50m Ohm to 1M Ohm and the signal will drown in noise. 50m
>>>         Ohm to 50 Ohm reduces the reflections a lot.
>>>
>>>         Thanks for the pic (illustrates it well). I already have
>>>         such a 50 Ohm feed through but never really understood what
>>>         exactly it does and therefore have never used it. I
>>>         understand it has an impedance of 50 Ohm like the coax cable
>>>         to prevent reflexions, yes, but how does it transfer the
>>>         potential difference to be measured (over the shunt) to the
>>>         1M Ohm impedance input of the scope. If we had to build such
>>>         a 50 Ohm feed through what would we have to do (what is it
>>>         composed of)? This might help me to understand how it works. 
>>>
>>>         Thanks a lot,
>>>
>>>          Andreas
>>>
>

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Subject Re: [EVGRAY] J ² = 1
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From Mick <[email protected]>