Re: [EVGRAY] Electrostatic machine roughly 1 kilowatt per pound

Database ID: 110050
2018-10-11T10:55:01-05:00
Norman Wootan <[email protected]>

← View thread

Message-ID
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>

Body

Warren, here is one especially for you since you an Old Salt Sailor! 
http://mysite.du.edu/~jcalvert/phys/elechome.htm  Scroll down to 
electric wind!

Similar discharges may be seen at the end of lightning rods (though 
normally they are not luminous enough to be seen), or at the ends of the 
masts or yardarms of sailing ships, where they were called St. Elmo's 
Fire. This happens when the atmospheric electric field becomes very 
large due to the passage overhead of a cumulonimbus. The major charge in 
the lower part of a thunderhead is negative, so the discharge is usually 
a positive corona. However, sometimes there is a positive charge at the 
very base of the cloud, which may produce a negative corona. In 
Graeco-Roman times, St. Elmo's Fire was attributed to Castor and Pollux. 
St. Elmo was apparently St. Erasmus of the 4th century, patron saint of 
sailors, and many forms of his name have been used. It had superstitious 
significance as well, and was sometimes called Corposanto, which English 
sailors called Corbie's Aunt. It was generally a favorable omen, but a 
man whose face was illuminated by it was doomed to die within a day, 
some believed. Since relatively dry air is required, it usually 
signified the end of rainfall and stormy weather. It can also occur on 
aircraft flying in the strong electric fields around thunderstorms. 
Corona discharges usually produce radio noise, as we found in the First 
Experiments above. Corona is effective in transferring charge without 
actual conductive contact, of which the Wimshurst machine and the van de 
Graaff generator furnish examples.

I personally have seen this a lot flying over the desert SW in the right 
atmospheric conditions!


On 10/11/2018 10:44 AM, Norman Wootan wrote:
>
> Warren!
>
> When you go back and study the old gang tuning capacitors in your ham 
> rigs you can readily see many different geometric configurations 
> possible depending on how many cutting poles you want on your rotor 
> segments with the same numbers of stator poles.  I made mine very 
> simple for a test set up for I drew a 8 inch circle and divided it 
> into 4 pie segments. with a common around the rotating shaft. etched 
> away the  adjacent segments giving me a two pole rotating segments. 
> the rotor plates were set screw attached to the rotating shaft with a 
> carbon 1/4 inch rod providing an earth ground at rotor shaft chamfered 
> (ball turning tool) end.  The earth ground provides the electron 
> input. The stator segments were layed out exactly like the rotor 
> segments with two pole  configuration and interleaved with rotor at 
> time of assembly with an air gap seperation of 1/8 inch. Eight rotor 
> plates and 9 stator collector square plates.  The opposing collector 
> plate segments are etched so that you have a positive terminal and a 
> negative terminal with the proper diode array for electron check 
> valves and high voltage collection capacitors.  The very crude device 
> worked as advertised and was fun to play with.  I had a seed 
> electrostatic generator, the old Tesla hand held ES generator that I 
> used to seed the stator unit to jump start it. It is like the Holtz 
> machine which unlike the Whinshurst machine, require seeding to 
> establish polarity at start up. The Whimshurst generator always 
> started up with proper polarity on the Leyden Jars when starting and 
> did not requiire seeding by outside means.   BTW! I used an old Singer 
> sewing machine motor with pedal speed controller to turn the rotor 
> assembly at 3600 RPM via a notched Gilmer belt drive.   The belt drive 
> isolated the motor from the electrostatic unit.  You can design you 
> unit with as many segments as you want for it is the chopping effect 
> of the rapidly changing capacitance of the rotor stator relationship 
> that does the work. If effect you have built an electron pump with 
> diode check valves and collection capacitor reservoirs.  Happy 
> building!  Norm
>
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/391963947520
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wimshurst_machine
>
> http://www.coe.ufrj.br/~acmq/holtz.html
>
> http://physics.kenyon.edu/EarlyApparatus/Static_Electricity/Toepler-Holtz_Machine/Toepler-Holtz_Machine.html
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/August_Toepler
>
> http://www.coe.ufrj.br/~acmq/electrostatic.html Literally thousands to 
> choose from!
>
> https://ethw.org/Electrostatic_Generator
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armstrong_effect They got this one  ALL 
> WRONG for it is the phase change of the water vapor in the wood nozzle 
> that provides the ions.  They assumed it was a friction process of 
> stripping electrons!  NOT! The machine must operate at exactly the 
> condensation temperature within the nozzle for it to work properly!  
> One of the most powerful machine ever built.
>
>
> On 10/10/2018 1:07 PM, Warren Keillor [email protected] 
> [EVGRAY] wrote:
>>
>>
>> Norman
>>
>> We have to see the geometry if possible of the relationship between 
>> two segments.
>> For study purposes, just printing on copy paper and cutting them out, 
>> would be helpful.
>> Cheers Warren
>> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
>> <https://go.onelink.me/107872968?pid=InProduct&c=Global_Internal_YGrowth_AndroidEmailSig__AndroidUsers&af_wl=ym&af_sub1=Internal&af_sub2=Global_YGrowth&af_sub3=EmailSignature>
>>
>>     On Wed, 10 Oct 2018 at 11:54 AM, Norman Wootan [email protected]
>>     [EVGRAY]
>>     <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>     Warren, the operation is very easy to comprehend since in analogy
>>     to a mechanical pump, you have check valves to provide a
>>     directional flow of a gas or liquid. Same here in that you have
>>     diode arrays to take the pumped electron into uni-directional
>>     flow and accumulation. the inter-leaving rotor and stator
>>     segments give the chopping effect and charge collection via
>>     rapidly changing capacitance values! LENZ free! The variable
>>     inductance, conventional generator has the penalty of the LENZ
>>     effect.
>>
>>
>>     On 10/10/2018 10:39 AM, Warren Keillor
>>     [email protected]
>>     <mailto:[email protected]> [EVGRAY] wrote:
>>>
>>>     Norman
>>>
>>>     Although I can't download the files on my phone, they sure look
>>>     interesting, and just as easy as I thought they might be to make
>>>     in quantity.
>>>     Printing them on fiberglass circuit board material, then
>>>     etching, is not bad, so it is good there are options out there,
>>>     to easily make these sectors, in quantity, as will be required.
>>>     These could be fun little no Lenz generators.
>>>     I like the mention of 2' diameter
>>>     Cheers Warren
>>>     Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
>>>     <https://go.onelink.me/107872968?pid=InProduct&c=Global_Internal_YGrowth_AndroidEmailSig__AndroidUsers&af_wl=ym&af_sub1=Internal&af_sub2=Global_YGrowth&af_sub3=EmailSignature>
>>>
>>>         On Wed, 10 Oct 2018 at 11:17 AM, Norman Wootan
>>>         [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> [EVGRAY]
>>>         <[email protected]> <mailto:[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>         Warren! I etched from printed circuit board material but
>>>         your laser cutting is more precise and a lot easier!  See
>>>         the Hyde generator or segment design.
>>>
>>>
>>>         <http://rexresearch.com/hyde/hyde.htm>
>>>
>>>         http://rexresearch.com/hyde/hyde.htm Great photos of actual
>>>         machine components!
>>>
>>>         On 10/10/2018 10:07 AM, Warren Keillor
>>>         [email protected]
>>>         <mailto:[email protected]> [EVGRAY] wrote:
>>>>
>>>>         Norman
>>>>
>>>>         That is a cute idea, making an air gap variable capacitance
>>>>         machine.
>>>>         It is an ideal project for a laser cutting service, rather
>>>>         than making stupid Christmas ornaments like most people use
>>>>         them for.
>>>>         It really doesn't matter which metal they are cutting.
>>>>         Stainless steel works great, laser cut out from sheet
>>>>         stock. Caps are usually aluminium, and anodized. I wonder
>>>>         what shape is needed of each sector? One might also stack
>>>>         machine them to shape
>>>>         Cheers Warren
>>>>
>>>>         Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
>>>>         <https://go.onelink.me/107872968?pid=InProduct&c=Global_Internal_YGrowth_AndroidEmailSig__AndroidUsers&af_wl=ym&af_sub1=Internal&af_sub2=Global_YGrowth&af_sub3=EmailSignature>
>>>>
>>>>             On Wed, 10 Oct 2018 at 10:57 AM, Norman Wootan
>>>>             [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> [EVGRAY]
>>>>             <[email protected]>
>>>>             <mailto:[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>             https://patents.google.com/patent/US3013201A/en
>>>>
>>>>             On 10/10/2018 9:50 AM, Norman Wootan wrote:
>>>>             > http://www.freepatentsonline.com/4897592.html Mick!
>>>>             This is the
>>>>             > machine that Charles Yost published an article on and
>>>>             the one that I
>>>>             > built and eventually gave it to Bert Pool, Ft. Worth
>>>>             Tesla Coil
>>>>             > Builders group!
>>>>             >
>>>>             >
>>>>             > On 10/10/2018 9:43 AM, Norman Wootan wrote:
>>>>             >> https://patents.google.com/patent/US2697793 After
>>>>             you read this
>>>>             >> lengthy description of the problem with the Van de
>>>>             Graff belt
>>>>             >> transfer method, you will so why they elected to go
>>>>             the Vacuum
>>>>             >> dielectric media approach!
>>>>             >>
>>>>             >
>>>>
>>>
>>
>> 
>

References

<[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
<[email protected]>

Headers

Return-Path <[email protected]>
X-Sender [email protected]
X-Apparently-To [email protected]
X-Received (qmail 30689 invoked by uid 102); 11 Oct 2018 15:55:08 -0000
X-Received from unknown (HELO mtaq4.grp.bf1.yahoo.com) (10.196.227.14) by m11.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Oct 2018 15:55:08 -0000
X-Received (qmail 24089 invoked from network); 11 Oct 2018 15:55:08 -0000
X-Received from unknown (HELO mta4003.groups.mail.bf1.yahoo.com) (10.201.195.72) by mtaq4.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Oct 2018 15:55:08 -0000
X-Original-Return-Path <[email protected]>
X-Received-SPF none (domain of att.net does not designate permitted sender hosts)
X-YMailISG zhOX.ukWLDsQP1QaltS5G.FNTQrD.BWUcqLP0oCEfDbI.aSy WEVuXTxZqt7otjAFiO1WCjkcjppIxpj6pEfTS6mXPpq1D7h7wAqnzCUeRG3n FmttsPg0B3mWutnvVPNJE47..79R1yUAg5UKfGMlnUrLUN1C7nlA6IgL6q7j w8ETDJsQlhAFhx1RGwVnDI50pZCK59NCtTtRLD2A6hgk_840DOiABrArQEp7 Pt2KOq5BXWtX1..gpvTOoxKsw2eDEumOH0b.6SkqNmLIZ6r7.KXHFlaCdqRV oEMRy.3zRr3OEDEx4R1lSPGGxYb3IvCH__iIDE2bSTjRCqZir9SfsflN_qKo 1dCYjrXqNQgicbh3P3kF9B4PID82V3hOe.McV.emV8OrU5V.PCh6coOe0LTZ vVVFeHSFyszk._iLb7P1FjEavU_UN7ubUXLLmdskEhD83sSrlZGwgUpW3O6f V7lfoxiYNGfrDfzcWaDI0N9eJmR6EEvR3e9f0yjLRmlrE5sNOc8lhJ6EG9TG HbPINbCeChpieX3Aq5qM8HgfS8QHMR4K6tCluWqo0u74spSHFvd2MzgMpBsq Cbz25y4BDc47q_zPyTA9lGSDpgsqSm15on7fYRKY9QWsJNV1s4VRRYnS6RoA fui6_zvFoqvVZ519Vz3IR2Ee_VUOngy2ih1klI6wqA.JPCHlx5UO5NcPQKCt 9A4kgaxMwkCdNhbAz5js4cnxAAuqEp_eXZyv5BQfblcMRc8gSDHDs2KfAUiy _aw9OxR9aauk91.BRkTJ2Vvn1ejgxWzGsMJug8IJS1FMU_tqge6O3THHZRJe 4Ur9UvBxzdt6zHpnG.JIsDAFATFZFggZp0HR9A8WUOQcs7nACydeKego4LnU 9Z5uJVg28oj3qBUZzBOgRnYXFE8OQ4yvC10j2MNkBqgHzIGqepKBYuCr3p3h BllzLddYWfy29Mvoh8UBKbrr7J_n3B4WCyIdGGId.ITKdW8KBnm2PNbjMEmH mYfvnDHoprrtemYQIXXRTl.5iK7HxaP5h1hiYKohrGUejkEFxJVGH96BnXxY qFFU0VCbHLUiXGfq3EFTqY_60HxPsvO5UPf3JpXtKZBWEVW91WGOzA7KqlT_ _NxS7te3Bya7G3SfYPI3fU_WmUElmu2uUqavZiV1KinmS7nRKMziWOm8EtCI 1ZE8isTbczwWhhNjAJLEbufgeJIQ_Y3QC8pKW2XgmcJC9Yd6PbBEdip0sMOt Xa8QuEg084nY5Gw.7Sb2.ZyUTg4K8m5v4wvg_2MIKvSPBsQTx5vsQMrPWJlA s5dgf9SEluWgxqshsWSMhwp0xV6UZiw8FuQnbbppmdy7tYazF2qqLdC.yD1d vfLjEfmCEcntzRCnRm60RxEPYfNk4RLDODVhxsA_pzKo.8hj1lX0n5zCOCYB uXNmi64AFjURv9MQpOQR7qGIJKea0BQkTNORziWiqvtDkfUn7cxsKixZOVdi 5L9ZEg64mE27i8Fxccw0MgwNSo4nTIvLjbMwzFukWdejih2_xzr2K9ymvxFs wn17Ck7wxdVqRY0ibjatzvHq
Authentication-Results mta4003.groups.mail.bf1.yahoo.com from=att.net; domainkeys=neutral (no sig); from=att.net; dkim=pass (ok)
X-Received from 127.0.0.1 (EHLO sonic311-17.consmr.mail.bf2.yahoo.com) (74.6.131.253) by mta4003.groups.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTPS; Thu, 11 Oct 2018 15:55:06 +0000
X-YMail-OSG R8e52m0VM1nQdTftv1o9iYJ50SJVzjJw29jC.GEI.vkqB6_JG7d.MffeOmYkclD iOvs1mnUde6m0S_v4A2P4yAzRimDVMWlbi0g1ZxwS0ckEh0RkCAuCSxS5YkBts.HnU3IDJgnKbtF BxnY6hvhV46d10glmG39rZdTJ1LmsAM9n5IIYPsUhWxFVYuBcaTK_fNFzV7xV2cYxzMcexRUbvlG 0Njjh0dIDeogwVgP0iaeIbcSXRYYjHTFancQ_6o.vBJXgMKehyp18fakIwR_uHvsrj2TnZesBg2n bNDAPsM3jN_Tn0juBQ32zVkyRZcwNc1RPWGZejXJEzTjJeWJQErDw7mi76zNehLPnLjDo8Pg8G2o 8BLDKYVv6PvziNy7P_lCGEpjhqSN78jfXoHP2UR4H61CAONDJc4Shc6KOQ17tWXDTE5N2bhwrgjH uI5v0eNC7rNbwKKh8t5wjLOqcVVAniGpvZTPnx8xokDx2NKjGf7QchILTJ0uaZyomahVzeJ2205Y Qk9bpAb_4q2vFAfMIMWEHLVp9OUNORN423VFMIju6TGuv3aPalw4Xad.xKjnNh.BcEC4mFiYzhYr NC7d3nwV4ujjil0ZHSWZvitq_x3HvWlK.f37EUu5vk4oPUc7_AUPkYXosAUNJ.pDzVrKJMOMQc7e bd3EjMcUrKPPQxE5w5mpryoMELRfI4hBe3gSvoHWzMVsTBsGbE3VfgdP5LuDnkaiy9KGqn9SSIg9 tsvW8vYdIooo_SdGTINHTG79DpPupwxXeJQ423aCvF98Rc6Vn3rx.xRC.E9ZFwfoAUlz8pOg2dhh rpSOfyUl94ODPSxZSkcIj2mCZBjIfiPZw9gDjoZgO6u5J6n6HNkXpPQ9lzDYc7dPpwdjarHkmyOx JJhRdzSBALmULF1bL7zUvw7o0xmFxa9kHJQ9mWsVPjbnqzUUzY.qOWgCnbOy2dSp_u6mx0SIxp2j USFFL7CqPsz9atj9nC1bdQPEPbJeHN2TnAGBge86dJf_YKSyPxqYUtSzzNtetLkou.LFcUMJMS5p pCfaSjlGheUhKOlDhJqmb_rYbnKUFVx2yT5qU6SCzAqL1LcCat5mw1oXmo9TIK4SB6sXRAQElHSs G
X-Received from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic311.consmr.mail.bf2.yahoo.com with HTTP; Thu, 11 Oct 2018 15:55:06 +0000
X-Received from ip70-189-27-193.lf.br.cox.net (EHLO [192.168.0.3]) ([70.189.27.193]) by smtp417.mail.bf1.yahoo.com (Oath Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 3c9cc013dedbee3d3c601f0f7310441f for <[email protected]>; Thu, 11 Oct 2018 15:55:01 +0000 (UTC)
To [email protected]
References <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
Message-ID <[email protected]>
Date Thu, 11 Oct 2018 10:55:01 -0500
User-Agent Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1
MIME-Version 1.0
In-Reply-To <[email protected]>
Content-Type multipart/alternative; boundary="------------D59F63E6483A651F42B5173C"
Content-Language en-US
X-Originating-IP 10.201.195.72
Subject Re: [EVGRAY] Electrostatic machine roughly 1 kilowatt per pound
X-Yahoo-Group-Post member; u=554418533; y=Je7v3rd8MVg4Yq09dKm8nZrxu2TkY-30FKDaRG6HWxfoEYVvBP_u-VkJ
X-Yahoo-Profile [email protected]
From Norman Wootan <[email protected]>