Body
MickMike, who is an avid energy enthusiast, and also Eastern Canada's heating and cooling guru
has moved into my Toronto studio.The first thing he did was remove my natural gas overhead furnace, and cut off the gas service with the rip off delivery fees(whether you burned gas, or not, just renting the underground pipe for$50/ month, year round, gas burned was on top)Bingo! Big savings!He then installed an air to air heat pump. It is a brand that had a label change but the exact same guts and was no longer sold, but lingering in the wholesaler's warehouse.This unit worked great all last winter, one of the most brutal in memory for cold days. The electricity consumption cost less than half that of the gas, plus there was no delivery fee like the gas service. The fans are quiet and it is nice and warm in there.It is by no means the final solution.It was a quick, and dirty fix, as I was moving out in middle December, and he was moving in.Fast forward to my situation here 4 hours east, on the North shore of the St Lawrence to a group of buildings away in the country, built well over 150 years ago from stone, and timber, the electricity is flakey.It goes off, from time, to time, for a number of reasons, before it arrives at the property. Heat arrives by tank truck in the form of propane. Expensive.In any case it all shuts down when the power goes off.I am eyeing the growing cordwood piles as we are now on the 5th chainsaw blade, and cycling all for sharpening, with our new Stihl chainsaw. Trees just being maintained dropping 30" diameter hardwood limbs on the lawns, not even remotely addressing the mature wood lot, where things fall and no sound is heard, certainly no chainsaw.So this two story high stone barn, made from stone one the property, a mixture of lime stone, sandstone, and granite, and another weird kind I haven't seen before, that peeks out of the ground here and there in out croppings. We sure have a lot of stone, and not a predictable amount of soil. I made a set of jaws for my Catepillar excavator, bought used in January, as opposed to a tractor, with front end loader.This unit has paid for itself many times over, every couple of weeks, and become a virtual part of the family. This last week, we moved forty five tons of rock, and broken concrete from the stone barn floor.I naively wanted to dig out eight inches of the floor, to install an insulated heated concrete floor, for radiant heat. Wow! What a job!I bought a little John Deere tractor and trailer at a garage sale down the road, then welded up a steel one ton hydraulic stone hopper for the trailer for carting stone out of the barn. We removed the roll cage from the excavator and got it into the barn, to load the trailer, which was backed in, load, after load, like some mining operationMy wife who is on vacation, is refering to our place as Stalag Vacations.com.She drives the tractor and the Cat quite well now.The Cat requires just as many muscle memory aspects as helicopters, except you don't fall out of the sky.So in short, My friend Mike, and I, are attempting to solve the hot water heating problem to heat the floor. Mike wants to use a heat pump. I have built a 12 volt refrigeration system for my schooner, and understand the basics of heat exchangers and liquid condensers, for energy transfer.There is really nothing on the market that does exactly what we want, but there there are units that can be adapted, except the darn software. The machinery will work fine.Cheers Warren
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On Sun, 26 Aug 2018 at 12:33 AM, Mick [email protected] [EVGRAY]<[email protected]> wrote:
Warren,
Where are you procuring a heat pump with a variable speed compressor, is it a minisplit? There are only two variable speed compressor central air heat pump models in the US, either from Traine or Rheem Rhud and they are insanely overpriced. All minisplits are inverter variable speed and Daiken is probably the best as they invented the tech. Maybe a ground source heat pump is built with an inverter drive, this is really what one would want as one can bury a bunch of tubing in the ground and then the heating is only the differential between below the frost line and the temp rise one desires (as long as enough tubing is used). There are some heat pumps which claim variable speed compressor which are really a multistage compressor, I have been told to stay away from these.
The ground source heat pumps I have seen are an air output but likely there are off the shelf that are liquid-liquid too.
On 8/25/2018 6:39 PM, Warren Keillor [email protected] [EVGRAY] wrote:
Doug
Contemplating air to liquid heat pump artangement for first off the start heating system. It is all off the shelf except the software for the heat pump compressor drive. Looking for a software guy who might be able to hack an air to air system to handle a liquid heat exchanger, instead of an air handler fan and rad as supplied stock. Europeans are much more advanced than Canadian installations, I have been told. Non of this precludes other additional parallel systems to add heat.
From what Mike tells me, the brushless motors on the compressors, speed up and slow down as conditions change, operated by logic sensors, within the factory stock program. Throwing a monkey wrench into the ordered system, such as unknown devices in parallel, may cause it to malfunction. I like my machines to be less fussy, with a greater tolerance for error, usually only available with steam punk Variacs, and knife switches. But I can freeze my ass off in October in this evil climate without heat, here in this part of Canada. Expedience is part of the immediate equation, with little fooling around. The days are getting shorter, unlike where Hector is, with a uniform 6:00 am to 6:00 pm daylight, year round. Not around here! Cheers Warren
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On Sat, 25 Aug 2018 at 8:26 PM, Warren Keillor <[email protected]> wrote:
Doug Interesting! Sounds easy to make. My system is very flexible to accept any heat source, I think. At present, it will be an air to air electric heat pump, which is only about three times as efficient as a Chromalux type resistance hot water heater. It will use about 10 amps of 220 volts to warm the concrete floor of a stone barn 18'x36' inside measurement with walls 2' thick. As you know, I have s good collection of motors. Until this workshop is up, and running, my machine shop is an oxyacetylene cutting torch, drill press and an old Lincoln 225 amp arc welder. I hsve been able to fo a lot of heavy work so far, bit dither around wishing to get my big lathe and milling machine, up and running. Do you have further info on this heat source, and the possible efficiency of it? Cheers Warren
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On Sat, 25 Aug 2018 at 6:35 PM, [email protected] [EVGRAY] <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Warren and Mick
Super easy simple and cheap to make rotating heater
Go to youtube xearch type in fuel less heater or friction heater.
It's simply metal can with holes drilled in that spins inside slightly larger can...fill with water, spin it and the water gets hot very quickly.
Kone
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