Re: [EVGRAY] Neutral spike and ferroresonance

Database ID: 107845
2018-05-06T16:51:19-07:00

← View thread

Message-ID
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>

Body

Hi Ole,

All great points, still thinking about ways of harvest as calcs will get
close but there is always the gnats ass final nudge. Have not decided on
the caps being filled quickly through loose coupling like a spark gap or
power corection into a step down transformer,

Just the capacitance coupling of me being nearby changes things so I can
see what Hector said about tuning is a bitch.  Nice info on the flyback
time transfer function.

I am trying to use distance as my answer the the capacitive coupling.

Yes your right it could be an avalanche punching through the gate would
look the same as the ferroresonance, using an IGBT but same potential
problem.

I would like to use a snubber without rounding off the corners of my
square wave but this may also stop the coil ringing which is what I want.
Is a snubber cap any different than the same rated polycap?

Working in the major investigative stage now so all your points a very
welcome!


On 5/6/2018 10:32 AM, [email protected] [EVGRAY] wrote:
>  
>
> Hi Mick,
>
> The resonant frequency is given by the circuit parameters. If the iron
> core saturates most of the inductance vanishes which increases the
> resonant frequency. How fast the coil is demagnetized determines the
> peak voltage of the flyback pulse at a given current and inductance.
> The product of the voltage and time is the same for the input and
> output pulses when the circuit parameters aren't changed. Thus an
> output pulse of one tenth the length of the input pulse gives ten
> times as high peak voltage of the flyback pulse. The secondary then
> transforms that voltage by the ratio of the number of turns between
> the primary and secondary coils. For a tesla coil this ratio has to be
> calculated like for a transmission line transformer. I don't think
> transmission line theory is strictly necessary for calculating the
> output voltage of an iron cored induction coil. Use the formulas for
> normal transformers. A capacitor is placed across the switch to limit
> the flyback voltage peak to a safe value for the switch. If using a
> power MOSFETs as switch the MOSFET probably goes into avalanche mode
> without this snubber capacitor. A mechanical switch will just arc
> across the contact points without the capacitor. What is seen as ferro
> resonance could be an avalanche (breakdown) through the MOSFET. This
> happens very fast just like ferro resonance. It may degrade the MOSFET
> to give it a shorter life.
>
> How fast the coil can be demagnetized depends on its parasitic
> capacitance and the load of the coil.  A totally open circuited coil
> without any capacitance will demagnetize immediately and thus induce
> an infinitely high voltage. Such ideal coils doesn't exist as even
> vacuum has a dielectric constant. Thus parasitic capacitance is formed
> between neighboring turns which dampens the voltage. I.e. the energy
> is converted from magnetic field energy to electric field energy.
>
> The induced high voltage of the secondary coil creates an electric
> field between the output terminals. If close to the earth or any metal
> parts the field will charge those parts even through a vacuum. If the
> distance isn't great enough the field will punch through and discharge
> the field. Else the energy is stored as an electric field around the
> coil and in the dielectric material between the windings. When the
> windings share a common connection between the primary and secondary
> coils the electric field has to be stored on the outside of the
> induction coil. Metal parts close by may get charged and discharge to
> the air by ionization or to persons touching them. Thus be careful
> when experimenting with high voltages. Everything is coupled by the
> capacitance between them.
>
> Regards
> Ole
>
>
>
> ---In [email protected], <mkjekyll@...> wrote :
>
> Warren,
>
> The earth spike seems to work weather or not there is a ferroresonance
> signature on the coil waveforme, just a whole lot better when there is.
>
> Therefore the frequency become speculative as to what resonance one is
> working with, be in the spark gap or the modulation or the beat
> frequencies. 
>
> I think a wideband approach of filling some caps from a spark gap or
> plasma tube as fast as they can be discharged is the ticket. This is
> where the experiment becomes costly as the high voltage multi mF caps
> are not cheap.
>
> In the Colorado notes Tesla has an extra coil in his Magnifying
> transmitter that no one seems to understand what he was doing with
> it.  I propose this is the ferroresonant modulator.
>
> A less costly way to harves is by PF correcting the energy to work in
> a transformer so the field requires much research and moving slow in
> order not to burn up parts
>

References

<[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
<[email protected]>

Headers

Return-Path <[email protected]>
X-Sender [email protected]
X-Apparently-To [email protected]
X-Received (qmail 39202 invoked by uid 102); 6 May 2018 23:51:24 -0000
X-Received from unknown (HELO mtaq6.grp.bf1.yahoo.com) (10.198.29.79) by m17.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 May 2018 23:51:24 -0000
X-Received (qmail 5343 invoked from network); 6 May 2018 23:51:24 -0000
X-Received from unknown (HELO mta1006.groups.mail.ne1.yahoo.com) (98.138.100.121) by mtaq6.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 May 2018 23:51:24 -0000
X-Original-Return-Path <[email protected]>
X-Received-SPF pass (domain of gmail.com designates 74.125.83.45 as permitted sender)
X-YMailISG 20sDr7cWLDv9bmZyzZW.Ib_EfTEDg.NeS0cHvEcZrKyxd6Ny tjFCCKJk0dJrEqd6e3JhrVXHcRuA.DU4cTnj_VrM0g9dT7n7tUqC.8AEARY1 oBWt5MLH_zjzuYSL969Ibd2u0Av8sf_pzpC6sFtf8i.xEy.8FNqD5Eiu4OC9 6CLjYQTtKIyRT9ZrnDSyKzOypdG9OkGFlUMLMOnaHG0PInnZSjBzAw94vgHD XmCHaUBMVNTFtsDzcY5yUUgHOxObOrNikZINCXDro.zCLnB.QHj0W.xc6xDE R1tTPdpoUzJ7ZJR1q.tc5bgXLLqXoybuvLKUyttqZ78RWBIPvJiciPqbtJkt NAVJ5fXVHxcKFnsQMss3vPC7vhivFRJ1roLRWEREvp1fHAwc6fbYXXoZqtOg 4w19WzCLi6iQosvcg32RaVUCQv99IRzb0HLsVGiGBJu_OQK2fhMiC4.hHRNP 75X0xxERUNMGKAFLUUv9IKmPbPA8YyZq.11jsRk7GhqU3bCwXHWUqcfFw2cR Wx1uhrOZcT9mqpjIQZbMc0dJ_A6G6pnU7Pyl1WNGDqgCFkzukFw8ncyLZiRz bTT7LXzXwEFCbb06E9uRO_2SaPDGycs5VGKgRqu9.FsdSI8_fFU79MHPaun9 nEQruG.qp987HEp4np16fAo9l2f7V3PKnq7rNq.i5tnRnnIHKteIeTsmoZ2N 1asa7GnTvH0EfKT3XB9yQqV48N5iVgp2MXnc9JGD4fF9rXcSnjyYvP68ZtMV N3027NpvpGowK90Hdx6jlcwtFBbhWupcv.DJexxw_ts_CvypLDVVFNK_veWk SPnt0wjoKMgFx7nYmEicSw1x3U8ckpJs_jH4g7pmM26M9u.8HNSv8uZrdlRj tgqOGTai6FNDr6w6hps5cNualPZs62HW.FmtRSaQHtlFuefqzw9GvjBMbnwP P__7vIefLWLRdgLb7.6ytsOewosKhCKrCyKqj5NYt6XG2.uCmxrQelsQme1r 41R1uluC9WbeXkHkmqV6ELbmFD6mHBj8wuxKWYhx17Ct3wBxGj1PWA63k1Vf ndl16kOdY_ZZ87_Bw2_s1YW8hFmMxYFYMqcijw5y9l7Mg.GE8BVwGFC6k3Cv HrDXVsZ_7nvwc9vh28ZZfJU034bBQltTm2R3bsV5YFcgMPntCNg9bbGvqjTh xxEI.JBqkKclgn0zISf8LB2C1WlYsVPUIbTYwkgaBeNoq6JpS9a0EM7LAMma ays05s.WlRk5pdcMJ25xivSAbuRf0iPSQpx.LDVWnctITzU.nxSI8.QZV8ef Uo_2OzYiDrGf33bSKdz9iCswNGYFcqWW5ryTS18q34M3kMJdkqOo_uN0wB1G 0zAyWLVa77hIeSKU9Od.KNhwco7d6kl4i6CNjEdvyfBZIskkJWPT5UNwkc19 WUIzMdKGkVT0
Authentication-Results mta1006.groups.mail.ne1.yahoo.com from=gmail.com; domainkeys=neutral (no sig); from=gmail.com; dkim=pass (ok)
X-Received from 127.0.0.1 (EHLO mail-pg0-f45.google.com) (74.125.83.45) by mta1006.groups.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with SMTPS; Sun, 06 May 2018 23:51:23 +0000
X-Received by mail-pg0-f45.google.com with SMTP id z4-v6so18932252pgu.13 for <[email protected]>; Sun, 06 May 2018 16:51:23 -0700 (PDT)
X-Google-DKIM-Signature v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:openpgp:autocrypt :message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to :content-language; bh=rsSydBVxM0/PHJY149li6q+YdDc+s+YZxpxTkjlMMBU=; b=eRGPslsvJ7hj1KrTc2Eh3YZ3S9OWPPygJN49/iL4B8Nm0bc2yqdLRtJ/sFtf2H111M lwsO7qCyamOLJikqmNdqk3SmGJBmjr6CtIlqha1JL0qOU+uENWp6RgekxsYsXiU7A7mw VPX7uXMqUFSMy+GeC3R4TXSKgEwP5E0qgFDR9bIbtINkQnuNYoyyTiiiOwnDW4swsckj cCBbJOzYgkktOBrZx8hZCfNyFfl02ZVJNW+FMhG7bqU5rwXN6pQgKs4pw2BcrKJQnCcz agz66JCBt7aKmDjJ+wAQzmlYFjIObU2cb2E5pTGJ0eFANh6/jIPnehB0CI0nWG2W1IvI aImg==
X-Gm-Message-State ALQs6tDM+xL145wZyC0XWiFAqXEdlQWBfI5YQQo15GP64riH5TJKopRt annY01fwnom0mSLpvEsjiLXNEg==
X-Google-Smtp-Source AB8JxZrXr1sH1flXufKucIeNf7gtGu4lN73vlwGBOjue0m7hxzCZrnyWFnAtKAsZeQqS0NULNRYS3w==
X-Received by 10.98.18.17 with SMTP id a17mr34943359pfj.104.1525650682329; Sun, 06 May 2018 16:51:22 -0700 (PDT)
X-Original-Return-Path <[email protected]>
X-Received from [192.168.10.185] ([162.244.37.186]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id x71sm52066216pfe.47.2018.05.06.16.51.21 for <[email protected]> (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 06 May 2018 16:51:21 -0700 (PDT)
To [email protected]
References <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
Openpgp preference=signencrypt
Autocrypt [email protected]; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= xsFNBFqnHl4BEAC2D/ejqMx87dzt7D1mXRlsoyaj15ZgiSeEW8avDH7iRxWF/xagNJw/C1BI 8WT4FMRFhDS9wFmTwJUhT09W4Rq2PwjTtWcUSUeMu4m3hvh70Tw4du+bpMKMoG56uo1DHlD3 A0/HYsVArjsf3wsae2ukhz6HjQGqLnGvVCUoKSuEG8nEUS15yWZMyoTCrBtU5cko+3O9Cm+L 4vL/K7GSBgwzErrXJOEBFraYB97Hjw43VaWEJ3Xft8SElz53+rRhVw0FgTNU4pKD5tzdy4MT dV7+N0OayO+jiMscBFA4SCFXFQFHC4SzMIK8TqA+pK2P6AihipgtOdSzNTBzDcCXrK7p40vR is+5l9TBc4AIgQhm4hA5mR3d3Ym07FzDoXxiZmZPnaoTY6sNj9u7WiYcJcQ5v2KV11jLvoiU CCzkjQLKqAJ3sYtMDNWnB5eNOd4NjXOVnorEgDmXyN1iT5XmtMSFJp0CwjhYmC2Xbeo85hWE 4tR5SJKksYa9szYTFDoYQ9S3Q96vxl8t2Y6Sb79VZXNzvd5uvwzXEhTBZAWH8HX2zLKS61Cj PDxNTWOrsEuUCLEEcNarUF4qNZUQY0TWzsntve6Evt9ncwNSnCfaGHij0/PWxk17wIetu/63 yoZKIHQnsitgCtAzU/lovMwz5eFtPCK/snvxWYOivHvhe9t9NQARAQABzRlNaWNrIDxta2pl a3lsbEBnbWFpbC5jb20+wsGUBBMBCAA+FiEEp76joP5XM22PiDq+OSrR4ccf/XkFAlqnHl4C GyMFCQlmAYAFCwkIBwIGFQoJCAsCBBYCAwECHgECF4AACgkQOSrR4ccf/XnJ1w//ZLePZRYc Nb7JgGobebLoxGeJvsLK01huCqs4OQm58HGH7qCaH019uMAciX72eEytgtCJk4OlZQDnX8fS Wpbhue6dGL3DWS1dSxzFP0iSqoRw/Xzq0KU0eQmofZR+Wy+jGblC3qUfp4HcfvRwPHMdhQpP fjcp4IsrN0KlUTZ2MoXgFp4H4Ztz3pST8fjsuZGhk/Jyc7/miJJVbd9W11MuIaNQ4Pp9FAC9 d1EN9jEiQlNHkPgpyEPEoBxqOD595pg858j63Dd+UJ6wm2D4oRnAisOx7Ytka/veimgfal1u WhKk81KZg1NT4e68VjnP0CUVScIK75D65BuWJaPp1yEzLX+PX/2YHZvdsNzyRN7rV4JCj0AC 90DL1Xf+ZOc4WhGVBxKDi7xUQWdhLatWhynRDKUeTgE3iKoyO5rAUBdSnYIWezpks/+FHSe8 oJfCnb5bwhjuvh2IgWjI+9pbo2sygYaqIj8g6aCUBRtBKLtGZuBMDYQ0vS/y9CJ5Drc/S7oD EdZwedRKflLpLR5Wwx4lnKXprYj3LD6ktikKcJejvJ8fE0KcOz3WJ9ygeTXktkUuUAhoyzGn Ugur6mCNfIGLNXj4tQYYtGtQm1d2G/c3K1ULh3lAQ0yWKILo1LFxF4x6rAnDG88TNnB342He rkoDYY5o15emK/fxKY5k84jGFsfOwU0EWqceXgEQALaewIOOSsgVQDqiojZVknrBkThxZ+UF hDxT1QGl+NK3MhtZ00XME0p4yjkIs8jO6+zRBQDCJLMhYHtoA7gbUlH5RyVVJRqH/swmbbFZ XQr8P5B/tZwtUH9zDbgPjk8zKN6trCgKbVW0FXOyBzTeLgoOWYjLvyXCUot5o2TQu9Vb0xAE QIXp7Xgh3FnW7ZfQPA/BtyaCDpWqX6cFzHhWpF3YY4iUF0APjFvXwRXspH9vnNj+qx/oUb5I uIf18MmGQye9h6zqItOC9qzDRLsKU4OVH3Ghqiu+P+UqxB7k5Tl9MbVWo9UUy9GMTyom64f9 UKQlvZAGnadldYp9vlF6b+dFDQQatJ3k6Bf1h6Ha82xFfvMwPR0VWiO0apKWRTlcRtVTDoQ6 5NFjcORngpj8C82ooLJ7/beYYPHL/3ke3Fp3hXWD32E5MMCun1EEVn/5dGwnLqvfwGh7sa49 JZDhq3CsTzZrUBZOrN2+JPB8WBeEW8OqZnwWqx3AU94MKEjkQCaxBYhTVzgPBfrHYxlSOtVZ 0dEY4AugklDiwYbTSHrlnXLWUaLPy79ChU4jx36ZqYlcGcLPBmDPKlfglr3EWB45MGffspBE g1B3qBzWGbxOb2HuNK9EUcB26nv1jvwkwdeaX32HDxnFD390uwZo1fkUWli/08z7SCvDEl/g Q2dXABEBAAHCwXwEGAEIACYWIQSnvqOg/lczbY+IOr45KtHhxx/9eQUCWqceXgIbDAUJCWYB gAAKCRA5KtHhxx/9eSMsEACLNZSE9Jenpz5yg1o3mNNeXmI4p2YzTz8KHkJuwWtFIiuGZi7I fUQZZHrRVQ8tpkJnmGrt2Cbu6y764xpaKwUNC6Z9eC41NKq/OdtE/6XwEfDrr6fnxYvUCcwF O26HPG44KtdgyBCUMO9iKtyifTpByK6X5u2Vq/gVAyf2cTiHAitOyD1Y6pPyRzdQE3legOr9 K3OguAWFd4TZ9TmL2WTyr06CcFJCAlmcX65PhcIxaVjjDQphQnL5KopumuWoZfl67fEb4vsI 320ut2HfFN9GzRlA2VnEHV/A2pu9wtSF/65wGHYKYNIcZxw0Xs0m6UZcT62nQEStV5lrBwGY CM43dZTkR/Vd9BC2VFLxdVLijNqI7FwsMErWKYvBsUt2DLHhIwAkows08yNCy7HE9Kfzl9bx wjDZhQJ9IVbnEvVsgo+3z1uS7cEYfMArUfPgy/i1eh56q0hFSZH0U3JqUBGdsdbMN8NKW3LR ZkjIuKCSu30AnvxJQZ+jd7kRb5NDCObahww4ylNnkOKP9C3LceWgxTchJh551yRNnxaO3H9q fXXrCfi0Rg/ttL9XRMhx0xTO3oyLasQrE/l/PXN8fExlCHOjUJ9pBcJwSCQvHn9QlJ8GjuJl 9Zi9raYZNZZbbVCaDwxAbhhQ5Q2xfTxE2k7QzVHCJ5fabGJ8Dcm/3Eny1g==
Message-ID <[email protected]>
Date Sun, 06 May 2018 16:51:19 -0700
User-Agent Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.3; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.7.0
MIME-Version 1.0
In-Reply-To <[email protected]>
Content-Type multipart/alternative; boundary="------------90EE7D388B4F07B5A88162AE"
Content-Language en-US
X-Originating-IP 98.138.100.121
Subject Re: [EVGRAY] Neutral spike and ferroresonance
X-Yahoo-Group-Post member; u=367442549; y=RWwKcUtiY0Q-yqCG6n4gj1fB-pbVy_h64LuopPKoKP2Wpe8
X-Yahoo-Profile mkjekyll
From Mick <[email protected]>