Body
Hello Douglas,
that is very nice that you want to help me, I've read again yesterday evening all the posts pdf of Hector times someone has taken together.
From 60cps to 30cps I do not understand. The diode plug splits only that means for me 60 positive half-waves and 60 negative half-waves. And not 30 full waves, except I trigger only every 2 times.
The diode plug is not reflective to the source, only the energy from the capacitors is consumed if not more than that, no additional energy is required from the source, merely operating this diode plug causes additional power consumption from the source. The higher the load, the lower the power consumption.
Even if I want I can not discharge into capacitors I've tried it, the current increase is so steep that I've broken a Powerthyristor, if only with very small capacitors.
I think every positive and negative half wave is charged up to the peak and then discharged to zero crossing, the problem the coil is trying to maintain the current and will only turn off after the zero crossing.
Unfortunately, I do not know how I can measure with the oscilloscope if I see that is switched off properly, where could I connect the probes?
Maybe you can tell me something about this text.
I really only need one way to shut down the SCR faster.
regards
Sven
#25321
Re: Update on passive scr discharger.
OK dimers as Triacs lett pass the DOWN-RAMP half Sinewave from TOP peak of the
sine to lowest part switching within any point of such ramp as selected by
variable resistor from FULL peak to low 0 triac shutoff point .
SCR must be tailored to SWITCH at PEAK and its DISCHARGE unto a LOAD must reach
NULL state & switch off before recharge cycling starts again , else alike you
have it will NOT switch off or it will ejaculate its capacitor charge
prematurely at next cycle remaining on all the time wile your OU goes off ! (No
OU! ).
(Pun Intentional )
Try reading SCR Gate Switching aplication notes , Signal Phase delay & advance
, snubber circuits , Capacitors & chokes aplied to SCR switching reactive &
capacitive coupling of SCR gate switching
Optoisolation of SCR gates ...
http://search.msn.com/results.aspx?srch=105&FORM=IE7RE&q=SCR++gate+switching+apl\
ication+notes
here are a few ....
Hector (:P
#25339
On Sparkys Circuit ........
The SCR half sinewave ramps are inverted !
half sine RE generator input to capture capacitor in plug .
x x
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x x
x x
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x x
x <-time-> x
Half sine SCR extraction from plug capacitor untill voltage cutt off.
Each sine is extracted as oposed to other charging from generator .
and on the DOWNSLOPE time region (NULL zone), were there is no reflection to
source ...
No wonder the challenger Exploded !
Darn !
Hector
#25347
Re: Update on passive scr discharger.
The only problem with this is reactive bounce from REACTIVE loads
back into the capacitor circuit that may create augmentative secundary
oscillations leading to a circuit EMP burnout .
Half wave isolation required and adjusting SCR to fire in the Half wave RMS top
, anywayb if we see a triac we got 2 ganged SCRs in lightdimmer they dim
switching at Downslope of EACH lalf wave ...
We need them to Switch at Top but Separated from Each other ...
Its the same variables a bit more lagging to switch on at max cap charge ...
Need to DEEPEN more into gating theoretics and its aplications to your
PARTICULAR SCRs and circuit design ...
I choose Strobelights as most stupid proff circuit that anyone can adjust for
60CPS operation , just use a LOAD in series to Xenon Tube as thyratron switcher
...
Circuit bangers , poor mans thyratron ... Coil bangers , FL lighters
,Igniters , coil wackers .....
So many posting on This !! ARRrrrrrrgggghhhhhhh!
Hector :)
#25351
Re: Update on passive scr discharger.
>
> What looks like needs to happen is the "turn-on" needs to be delayed until the
sine is at its peak and then it should turn on at the peak till it drops to
(valance ) within SCR cutoff value Not "0"and shut off ...
zero and then shutoff.
In a plug from common grown reference using 4 channel scope 2 in plugs
capacitor + - terminals .
2 channels offset positive from "0" 2 set offset negative .
At turn on You see 2 sines goin up to top voltage value within Negative positive
Half sines.
At SCR turn on you see Squarewave that depending on load goes into sawtooth
shape unitll it cuts off ... this are contrary to Sinewaves at Charging input
signals, that if capacitor retains charge the sine initial SLOPE apears to be
truncated ... but that is ENERGY you dont realy use but afects RESONANCE tuning
by Varactor effect , "Voltage tuning" VCO effect that afects phaseangle within a
logaritmic gain path .
Remember Gate bias may give you a misreading by leakage drain .
that is NOT real ,its an artifact .
I know Tuning is a bitch , but its what makes OU posible, try to be patient &
intuitive on this aspects.
Try looking in 4 dimensions , it will become clear ...
Hector
#25353
Re: Update on passive scr discharger.
OK lets go on the MENTAL scope (Mind)
Imagine one Cycle 1 cps at 120VAC , takes 1/120second to raise from
0 VDC to 120VDC+ then to 0 volts at cycle CENTER then from 0 VDC
to 120VDC- to 0 volts DC again other 1/120 half adds to One complete cycle
.... 1/60 sec
Lets take the Upside ramp of HALF cycle delay the SCR 1/240 second
switch on at UPRAMP section NULL Zone of opposed Diode chargin region
Discharging within 3/240 second zone to ZERO within start from 0 , remember
the CAPACITOR Remains Charged at same RMS voltage peak generated by RE signal
(120VAC x 1.618 ) and discharging will be done in TIME delayed phase triggering
.
The problem with switching at Downramp stands from EARLY triggering as I was not
clear in my first Time divisions toward finding if someone was able to triger
correctly finding the downramp discharge faster than the sinewave downslope
created voltage differential retrigering SCR in downramp ....
The premature "ejaculation" of electrons joke ....
To EASE some pain I describe Correct timeframes specific for 60CPS .
Only one mentioned the 1/240 timeframe ....
But finding 3/4 of real power is lost doing nothing within REAL power
engineering can be quite frustrating to some , that makes single spike seem
magical when in REALITY we are extracting the Ghost
out of a corpse , were RE comes in? , in the separation of Current & voltage
nodes from one other by 90Degrees ...
The rest becomes Academic (already explained a zillion times)
Go to lab Have peace, triger at within 3/240 of a second at Specific
Downdischarge ramp of 1/240 of a second or less. at 3rd 1/120 segment
aply to the 2 half sines and 1/240 + 1/240 sums to 1/120 discharge
averaged down-slope time 2 half sines sumed ....
In reality we are Working with PULSED DC at 120PS FREQUENCY .
1/120 averaged RE charging Region and 1/120 CPS ,
but OUTPUT is at 60CPS within 2 summed 1/240 sectors making a 1/120
Pulseregion.... Input & output but, OUTPUT being RE amplified .
Understanding first why it does not work makes you Understand the way it works
(Basic aplication of theory to reality ) sorry for being cryptic .... but is ZOO
keeper rules....
Hector :)
#25363
Re: Update on passive scr discharger.
Have problems with camera so its delaying a hand drawing I will try to Explain
in VERVAL descript .
Lets use only HALF (SIDEBAND) +
give in a lenght of 1/60 of a second ..
Sinewave goes UP to max Capacitor value (RE spike) 1/240sec .
Downslope (no switching yet ) to 0 takes another 1/240second
AT ZERO then within that 1/240 of a second wile the other SINE is charging the
other - capacitor ... we discharge first capacitor
non-reflective to Input , the shorter the pulse with more load greater amperage
, higer frequency (smaller pulselenght)
Dimmers use Reactor with capacitor for delay , but to EASE design
a 556 (Dual 555 timer) can be used as sense and delay synchro clock
to regulate extraction , then see how we can get the energy out within the 1/240
time segment in EACH sideband conserving OU potential within circuit design
(1/300 much better ) if we can cut SCR off before hitting beyond the null
region .
BE clear it will try to do this at his own as your SCR will cut off
at its turn off voltage sumed to battery one.
You get 1/4 sine downslope sawtooth waveform truncated before reaching 0 Volts
delayed 3 to 7% to null time region .
Farad , Volts discharged to Load (Ohms ) gives you Pulselenght ,duration &
amplitude of the "Magical" Sawtooth
waveform . I say "magical" because that Pulse is key to many other things that
need to be understood .
The other problem is reactive bounce that might be created by SCR discharging
into a load , Pulsing battery directly is one solution .
reactive diode pass filter bridge is another ,there are several circuit
adaptations to choose , all them effective.
Hector
#25379
Re: Update on passive scr discharger.
Sidebands:
Upper Sideband Positive half sine USB
1/240Sec upslope 1/240 sec Downslope (1/120) of a second total'
Lower Sideband negative half sine LSB
1/240Sec upslope 1/240 sec Downslope (1/120) of a second total.
For 1/60 of a second total time dualsideband AC operation
1/120 Summed upslopes ramp , 1/120 of a second downslopes .
Taken within timeframe samplings will be sum of all samplings divided by number
of samplings to give average true power within a given timeframe .
To manage OU we need to Know were standard power GOES and is used in order to
use correctly the best conversion ratios within such states of energy transform.