Re: [EVGRAY] Tesla Turbine Question

To add to that is the fact that very large propeller shafts on big steam 
powered vessels used white oak blocks lubricated with heavy grease in 
the stuffing boxes.. Of course these huge propellers only turned a few 
hundred RPM but had great thrust. Interesting facts.

On 4/9/2019 5:56 PM, [email protected] [EVGRAY] wrote:
>
> Surprisingly enough many, including Parsons and Brown Boveri, used 
> Babbitt bearings with a high pressure oil film.
>
>
> Ron
>
> ---In [email protected], <nwootan@...> wrote :
>
> Use your head man.?? High speed steam turbines were being built at the 
> same time using high speed roller and ball bearings that lasted many 
> years. very reliable.
>
> On 4/9/2019 4:17 PM, Mick mkjekyll@... <mailto:mkjekyll@...> [EVGRAY] 
> wrote:
>
>>     Thank you Norm,
>>
>>     Great information as always!
>>
>>     Just wondered what Dr Tesla may have used for bearings back then
>>     before off the shelf silicon nitride and such. Something spinning
>>     that fast would eat up bearings if they were not choice.?? Perhaps
>>     they were ball as you allude rather than hydrodynamic fluid bearings.
>>
>>     I shall order your presentation.
>>
>>
>>     On 4/9/2019 1:31 PM, Norman Wootan nwootan@...
>>     <mailto:nwootan@...> [EVGRAY] wrote:
>>>
>>>     https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_turbine
>>>
>>>     On 4/9/2019 3:28 PM, Norman Wootan wrote:
>>>>
>>>>     https://www.teslatech.info/ttstore/conftapes/teslatech/2016jul/ETC16Web.pdf
>>>>
>>>>     The basic principle behind the Tesla Turbine is the De Laval
>>>>     Nozzle for it converts the maximum amount of potential energy,
>>>>     Pressure/ Heat into Kinetic Energy with proper design and
>>>>     application. If you don't understand this principle, best you
>>>>     leave the turbine off your to-do list.
>>>>
>>>>     I explained all this in my 2016 Presentation at the Tesla
>>>>     Conference. You have to make your condensable vapor/gas
>>>>     transition to supersonic before impinging upon the runner disk
>>>>     pack and then go subsonic creating a shock wave that drives the
>>>>     boundary layer on the disk surface so you get the maximum bang
>>>>     for your buck.?? 99% of all experimenters do not understand
>>>>     this.?? The driving media must be a condensable vapor so that
>>>>     you have a partial vaccum,?? on the cool side and up to around
>>>>     120 PSI driving pressure on the hot side. See
>>>>
>>>>     https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ball_bearing
>>>>     https://web.stanford.edu/~hydrobay/lookat/tt.html
>>>>     https://www.scribd.com/doc/82705538/Tesla-Turbine-Technicals
>>>>     https://auto.howstuffworks.com/tesla-turbine4.htm
>>>>
>>>>     On 4/9/2019 12:29 AM, Mick mkjekyll@... <mailto:mkjekyll@...>
>>>>     [EVGRAY] wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>     Norm,
>>>>>
>>>>>     Your work on the Tesla Turbine, where can I find the DVD
>>>>>     again, I would
>>>>>     like to buy one?
>>>>>
>>>>>     What did Tesla use for a bearing back then that could handle
>>>>>     the RPM?
>>>>>
>>>>>     I know you said he had Nozzles made by a company back then but
>>>>>     bearings
>>>>>     come into question.
>>>>>
>>>>>     Thanks,
>>>>>
>>>>>     Mick
>>>>>
>

Please don't get hung up on stupid bearings for the De Laval Nozzels are 
the key to the Tesla Turbine operations. see the example nozzels used in 
the steam turbines back in that time frame.

On 4/10/2019 1:27 PM, Warren Keillor [email protected] 
[EVGRAY] wrote:
>
> Norman
>
> I've never seen white oak used, but I sure have seen lignamvite, used, 
> end grain against the prop shaft, and in big water turbines too.
> A couple of months ago, I bought the forge and machine shop equipment 
> from an old stone water mill that developers are turning into 
> something awful. In among the equipment, I got several blocks of 
> lignamvite that the millright used to make new bearings.
> The tools are all antiques, but made locally in Canada in the 1800's
> I used lignamvite on my schooner for all sorts of things. It grows in 
> the Carribean.
> ??Cheers Warren
> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
> <https://go.onelink.me/107872968?pid=InProduct&c=Global_Internal_YGrowth_AndroidEmailSig__AndroidUsers&af_wl=ym&af_sub1=Internal&af_sub2=Global_YGrowth&af_sub3=EmailSignature>
>
>     On Wed, 10 Apr 2019 at 12:41 PM, Norman Wootan [email protected]
>     [EVGRAY]
>     <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>     To add to that is the fact that very large propeller shafts on big
>     steam powered vessels used white oak blocks lubricated with heavy
>     grease in the stuffing boxes.. Of course these huge propellers
>     only turned a few hundred RPM but had great thrust.?? Interesting
>     facts.
>
>     On 4/9/2019 5:56 PM, [email protected]
>     <mailto:[email protected]> [EVGRAY] wrote:
>>     ??
>>
>>     Surprisingly enough many, including Parsons and Brown Boveri,
>>     used Babbitt bearings with a high pressure oil film.
>>
>>
>>     Ron
>>
>>     ---In [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>,
>>     <nwootan@...> <mailto:nwootan@...> wrote :
>>
>>     Use your head man.?? High speed steam turbines were being built
>>     at the same time using high speed roller and ball bearings that
>>     lasted many years. very reliable.
>>
>>     On 4/9/2019 4:17 PM, Mick mkjekyll@... <mailto:mkjekyll@...>
>>     [EVGRAY] wrote:
>>
>>>         ??
>>>
>>>         Thank you Norm,
>>>
>>>         Great information as always!
>>>
>>>         Just wondered what Dr Tesla may have used for bearings back
>>>         then before off the shelf silicon nitride and such.??
>>>         Something spinning that fast would eat up bearings if they
>>>         were not choice.?? Perhaps they were ball as you allude
>>>         rather than hydrodynamic fluid bearings.
>>>
>>>         I shall order your presentation.
>>>
>>>
>>>         On 4/9/2019 1:31 PM, Norman Wootan nwootan@...
>>>         <mailto:nwootan@...> [EVGRAY] wrote:
>>>>         ??
>>>>
>>>>         https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_turbine
>>>>
>>>>         On 4/9/2019 3:28 PM, Norman Wootan wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>         https://www.teslatech.info/ttstore/conftapes/teslatech/2016jul/ETC16Web.pdf
>>>>>
>>>>>         alt
>>>>>
>>>>>         The basic principle behind the Tesla Turbine is the De
>>>>>         Laval Nozzle for it converts the maximum amount of
>>>>>         potential energy, Pressure/ Heat into Kinetic Energy with
>>>>>         proper design and application. If you don't understand
>>>>>         this principle, best you leave the turbine off your to-do
>>>>>         list.
>>>>>
>>>>>         I explained all this in my 2016 Presentation at the Tesla
>>>>>         Conference. You have to make your condensable vapor/gas
>>>>>         transition to supersonic before impinging upon the runner
>>>>>         disk pack and then go subsonic creating a shock wave that
>>>>>         drives the boundary layer on the disk surface so you get
>>>>>         the maximum bang for your buck.?? 99% of all experimenters
>>>>>         do not understand this.?? The driving media must be a
>>>>>         condensable vapor so that you have a partial vaccum,?? on
>>>>>         the cool side and up to around 120 PSI driving pressure on
>>>>>         the hot side. See
>>>>>
>>>>>         alt
>>>>>
>>>>>         https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ball_bearing
>>>>>         https://web.stanford.edu/~hydrobay/lookat/tt.html
>>>>>         https://www.scribd.com/doc/82705538/Tesla-Turbine-Technicals
>>>>>         https://auto.howstuffworks.com/tesla-turbine4.htm
>>>>>
>>>>>         On 4/9/2019 12:29 AM, Mick mkjekyll@...
>>>>>         <mailto:mkjekyll@...> [EVGRAY] wrote:
>>>>>>         ??
>>>>>>
>>>>>>         Norm,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>         Your work on the Tesla Turbine, where can I find the DVD
>>>>>>         again, I would
>>>>>>         like to buy one?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>         What did Tesla use for a bearing back then that could
>>>>>>         handle the RPM?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>         I know you said he had Nozzles made by a company back
>>>>>>         then but bearings
>>>>>>         come into question.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>         Thanks,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>         Mick
>>>>>>
>

NormanI've never seen white oak used, but I sure have seen lignamvite, used, end grain against the prop shaft, and in big water turbines too.A couple of months ago, I bought the forge and machine shop equipment from an old stone water mill that developers are turning into something awful. In among the equipment, I got several blocks of lignamvite that the millright used to make new bearings. The tools are all antiques, but made locally in Canada in the 1800's
I used lignamvite on my schooner for all sorts of things. It grows in the Carribean. Cheers Warren
Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
 
  On Wed, 10 Apr 2019 at 12:41 PM, Norman Wootan [email protected] [EVGRAY]<[email protected]> wrote:       
 

To add to that is the fact that very large propeller shafts on big steam powered vessels used white oak blocks lubricated with heavy grease in the stuffing boxes.. Of course these huge propellers only turned a few hundred RPM but had great thrust.?? Interesting facts.
 
 On 4/9/2019 5:56 PM, [email protected] [EVGRAY] wrote:
  
 ??  
Surprisingly enough many, including Parsons and Brown Boveri, used Babbitt bearings with a high pressure oil film.
 
  Ron
 
 ---In [email protected], <nwootan@...> wrote :
 
  
Use your head man.?? High speed steam turbines were being built at the same time using high speed roller and ball bearings that lasted many years. very reliable. 
 
 On 4/9/2019 4:17 PM, Mick mkjekyll@... [EVGRAY] wrote:
  
 
 ??  
Thank you Norm,
 
Great information as always!
 
Just wondered what Dr Tesla may have used for bearings back then before off the shelf silicon nitride and such.?? Something spinning that fast would eat up bearings if they were not choice.?? Perhaps they were ball as you allude rather than hydrodynamic fluid bearings.
 
I shall order your presentation.
 
 

 
 On 4/9/2019 1:31 PM, Norman Wootan nwootan@... [EVGRAY] wrote:
  
 ??  
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_turbine
 
 On 4/9/2019 3:28 PM, Norman Wootan wrote:
  
 
https://www.teslatech.info/ttstore/conftapes/teslatech/2016jul/ETC16Web.pdf
 

 
The basic principle behind the Tesla Turbine is the De Laval Nozzle for it converts the maximum amount of potential energy, Pressure/ Heat into Kinetic Energy with proper design and application. If you don't understand this principle, best you leave the turbine off your to-do list.
 
I explained all this in my 2016 Presentation at the Tesla Conference. You have to make your condensable vapor/gas transition to supersonic before impinging upon the runner disk pack and then go subsonic creating a shock wave that drives the boundary layer on the disk surface so you get the maximum bang for your buck.?? 99% of all experimenters  do not understand this.?? The driving media must be a condensable vapor so that you have a partial vaccum,?? on the cool side and up to around 120 PSI driving pressure on the hot side. See
 

 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ball_bearing  https://web.stanford.edu/~hydrobay/lookat/tt.html
https://www.scribd.com/doc/82705538/Tesla-Turbine-Technicals
https://auto.howstuffworks.com/tesla-turbine4.htm  
  On 4/9/2019 12:29 AM, Mick mkjekyll@... [EVGRAY] wrote:
  
 ??  
Norm,
 
 Your work on the Tesla Turbine, where can I find the DVD again, I would
 like to buy one?
 
 What did Tesla use for a bearing back then that could handle the RPM?
 
 I know you said he had Nozzles made by a company back then but bearings
 come into question.
 
 Thanks,
 
 Mick
 
 
  
 
  
  
 
     
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At Bagnell Dam in Missouri the generator armatures that are 30' across are running on redwood down in the bottom and the water running through keeps them cool and lubed. I believe it was finished in 1929.

My goodnessCan we ever get into funny obscure topics of engineering here on this forum? Next we are going to hear about rubber bearings that the shaft rides on a film of water much like a water skier slips along the surface of that fluid. After wooden bearings, vessels have been using rubber for more than half a century, and now plastic, to ride on the continuous exchange of the fluid, water pumped through the space between the shaft and bearing, not unlike the magnetic bearings so fondly mentioned for some devices shafts to ride on.Air, yes,  of course, even air is a fluid. Those massive stage sets moved soundlessly across the stage floor, like the magic they are to watch, ride on air casters, a silent cushion of compressed air, not unlike a toilet plunger.( watch ₩out for fart sounds)
So when your wife says" let's go and see an opera" say " what a great idea!" You might be very surprised by what is being done with physics.You have to admit that making  "magic" beats making war, if you are playing with the edges of physics. Humans are a strange, and complex species.Cheers Warren
Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
 
  On Wed, 10 Apr 2019 at 9:43 PM, [email protected] [EVGRAY]<[email protected]> wrote:       
At Bagnell Dam in Missouri the generator armatures that are 30' across are running on redwood down in the bottom and the water running through keeps them cool and lubed. I believe it was finished in 1929.
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well we can enter into the experimental use of lubricated condoms ?  who supplies the goats ? 

  opps! sorry! in western USA that will be sheep ! 


(H) 




---In [email protected], <schoonersolsticemoon@...> wrote :

 My goodness Can we ever get into funny obscure topics of engineering here on this forum? Next we are going to hear about rubber bearings that the shaft rides on a film of water much like a water skier slips along the surface of that fluid. After wooden bearings, vessels have been using rubber for more than half a century, and now plastic, to ride on the continuous exchange of the fluid, water pumped through the space between the shaft and bearing, not unlike the magnetic bearings so fondly mentioned for some devices shafts to ride on.
 Air, yes,  of course, even air is a fluid. Those massive stage sets moved soundlessly across the stage floor, like the magic they are to watch, ride on air casters, a silent cushion of compressed air, not unlike a toilet plunger.( watch ₩out for fart sounds)
So when your wife says" let's go and see an opera" say " what a great idea!" You might be very surprised by what is being done with physics.
 You have to admit that making  "magic" beats making war, if you are playing with the edges of physics. Humans are a strange, and complex species.
 Cheers Warren
 Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android https://go.onelink.me/107872968?pid=InProduct&c=Global_Internal_YGrowth_AndroidEmailSig__AndroidUsers&af_wl=ym&af_sub1=Internal&af_sub2=Global_YGrowth&af_sub3=EmailSignature
 
 On Wed, 10 Apr 2019 at 9:43 PM, trois2005@... [EVGRAY]
 <[email protected]> wrote:

   At Bagnell Dam in Missouri the generator armatures that are 30' across are running on redwood down in the bottom and the water running through keeps them cool and lubed. I believe it was finished in 1929.

HectorWhile you are here, can I pick your brain?What do you know of the Samsung type motor experiments?These motors have a lot in common with your out runner ideas of several years ago, I believe?
True, there are funny tricks going on involving a computer, much like kids racing drones, where this generation of hot riders are happening.The other trick is pulsed DC of some 400 volts very accurately delivered at very specific moments in time to each phase.I know pulsed DC is a force to contend with, having it shear off a 5/16" spine hardened motor shaft with the torque delivered by a fist sized motor, from standing start to a locked shaft.A 24 volt motor on 350 volts of pulsed DC stayed cool in spite of twisting off the shaft.Anyway let me know what you think about the Samsung magicCheers Waren
Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
 
  On Thu, 11 Apr 2019 at 3:41 PM, [email protected] [EVGRAY]<[email protected]> wrote:       


well we can enter into the experimental use of lubricated condoms ?  who supplies the goats ? 

  opps! sorry! in western USA that will be sheep ! 


(H) 




---In [email protected], <schoonersolsticemoon@...> wrote :

My goodnessCan we ever get into funny obscure topics of engineering here on this forum? Next we are going to hear about rubber bearings that the shaft rides on a film of water much like a water skier slips along the surface of that fluid. After wooden bearings, vessels have been using rubber for more than half a century, and now plastic, to ride on the continuous exchange of the fluid, water pumped through the space between the shaft and bearing, not unlike the magnetic bearings so fondly mentioned for some devices shafts to ride on.Air, yes,  of course, even air is a fluid. Those massive stage sets moved soundlessly across the stage floor, like the magic they are to watch, ride on air casters, a silent cushion of compressed air, not unlike a toilet plunger.( watch ₩out for fart sounds)
So when your wife says" let's go and see an opera" say " what a great idea!" You might be very surprised by what is being done with physics.You have to admit that making  "magic" beats making war, if you are playing with the edges of physics. Humans are a strange, and complex species.Cheers Warren
Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 


On Wed, 10 Apr 2019 at 9:43 PM, trois2005@... [EVGRAY]<[email protected]> wrote: 
At Bagnell Dam in Missouri the generator armatures that are 30' across are running on redwood down in the bottom and the water running through keeps them cool and lubed. I believe it was finished in 1929.


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Is documented here within hundreds of posting on the 40 phases and multi phase motors , were you think they got the ideas ?  evidently from here ....

Add kone motor timing to it and shorted coil tricks for motor generator  concept ! 

(H)  


---In [email protected], <schoonersolsticemoon@...> wrote :

 Hector While you are here, can I pick your brain?
 What do you know of the Samsung type motor experiments?
 These motors have a lot in common with your out runner ideas of several years ago, I believe?
True, there are funny tricks going on involving a computer, much like kids racing drones, where this generation of hot riders are happening.
 The other trick is pulsed DC of some 400 volts very accurately delivered at very specific moments in time to each phase.
 I know pulsed DC is a force to contend with, having it shear off a 5/16" spine hardened motor shaft with the torque delivered by a fist sized motor, from standing start to a locked shaft.A 24 volt motor on 350 volts of pulsed DC stayed cool in spite of twisting off the shaft.
 Anyway let me know what you think about the Samsung magic
 Cheers Waren
 Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android https://go.onelink.me/107872968?pid=InProduct&c=Global_Internal_YGrowth_AndroidEmailSig__AndroidUsers&af_wl=ym&af_sub1=Internal&af_sub2=Global_YGrowth&af_sub3=EmailSignature
 
 On Thu, 11 Apr 2019 at 3:41 PM, arkresearch@... [EVGRAY]
 <[email protected]> wrote:
 
   

 well we can enter into the experimental use of lubricated condoms ?  who supplies the goats ? 

  opps! sorry! in western USA that will be sheep ! 


(H) 




---In [email protected], <schoonersolsticemoon@...> wrote :

 My goodness Can we ever get into funny obscure topics of engineering here on this forum? Next we are going to hear about rubber bearings that the shaft rides on a film of water much like a water skier slips along the surface of that fluid. After wooden bearings, vessels have been using rubber for more than half a century, and now plastic, to ride on the continuous exchange of the fluid, water pumped through the space between the shaft and bearing, not unlike the magnetic bearings so fondly mentioned for some devices shafts to ride on.
 Air, yes,  of course, even air is a fluid. Those massive stage sets moved soundlessly across the stage floor, like the magic they are to watch, ride on air casters, a silent cushion of compressed air, not unlike a toilet plunger.( watch ₩out for fart sounds)
So when your wife says" let's go and see an opera" say " what a great idea!" You might be very surprised by what is being done with physics.
 You have to admit that making  "magic" beats making war, if you are playing with the edges of physics. Humans are a strange, and complex species.
 Cheers Warren
 Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android https://go.onelink.me/107872968?pid=InProduct&c=Global_Internal_YGrowth_AndroidEmailSig__AndroidUsers&af_wl=ym&af_sub1=Internal&af_sub2=Global_YGrowth&af_sub3=EmailSignature
 
 On Wed, 10 Apr 2019 at 9:43 PM, trois2005@... [EVGRAY]
 <[email protected]> wrote:

   At Bagnell Dam in Missouri the generator armatures that are 30' across are running on redwood down in the bottom and the water running through keeps them cool and lubed. I believe it was finished in 1929.