Samsung motor

DougThis is how I have connected the Samsung motor to the 2.6 KW generator.Now I must drive that Samsung at 3600 rpm, using up to 400 volts of pulsed DCGetting 400 volts DC is no problem
Getting  it pulsed, and sequenced, is the issue, along with applying it at the precise moment in time.I have an Arduino board, and am building a circuit designed by Thomas Buie.It is published by Patrick Kelly in the latest version of his on line book chapter 32.The circuit requires feed back from the coils to sense position.However, there is a problem.EMF, our old problem buddy can shoot back into the controller, and kill the brains,A schottky diode might protect the gate drivers, but then squelch the position signal. Hmmmmm?
Ideas? ( Doug. I love your mechanical solution, but this sucker is way up in RF frequencies)Cheers Warren
Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

Hi Warren
 Your photo came through beautiful...using chrome browser not explorer fixed it I think I can see your photos fine.
 Looks really good and clean.. maybe you can go for highest impedance possible in the generator (460V circuit??) and try and find sweet spot in rpms where the delayed lenz takes over to beat lenz....also you could put timing disc on shaft, and pulse (or short) generator phases into unloaded all by themselves capacitors, then do some switching where caps disconnect from generator, and then caps again (2nd stage) all by themselves dump into load while disconnected from generator phase so resistive loading has zero effect on motor, however loading up caps again will, so experiment with draining caps only down so much (lots of difference from filling 2000uf cap at zero volts and 2000uf cap at  75V for an example) also resistance value of what caps dump into will mean a lot in what you have in cap for next fill cycle, as well as pulse width, and how many pulses too between fill cycles of course....whole idea with shorting coils through FWBR into caps is you can blast them very much higher in volts and if you keep pulse width short to the short and have it occur exactly at the peak of voltage from generator phase it will not affect motor, or very little, when the generator phases fill up the caps....Gary Porter just demonstrated this!! About two weeks ago he used a "Doug Konzen" circuit he calls it to fill caps from both his pickup winds around the stock winds in his Samsung, and also from his ECM motors being belted to the Samsung shaft too this I call the two-stage outpout circuit where you fill caps only, then caps only dump to load then you do it again and again....Gary reported also that you must do it at voltage peak, to make it non reflective fill up caps, just as I have always reported doing peak coil shorting too...
 You might want to make a copper commutator as you are expert at, to do pulsing-out and any peak coil shorting to that generator as you don't have to do lots of soldering and ordering lots of parts many of which will blow up as you experiment....peak coil shorting like mechanical commutators since resistance as low as you can get.....
 Rem ember Woopy got 2200 rpm as the magic frequency of delayed lenz where rotor sped up under loading and he had a high impedasce coil and 16 NS magnets plus iron core....so shift the numbers around for how many poles in your generator.....I have a feeling only 4 this means 8800rom to that generator to find no lenz in a very ballpark prediction so you might not find anything as that is such high rpm its going to explode unless perfect balancing and bearings will wear out quick...(Why to belt up generators to higher rpms so motor doesn't have to work so hard and go so fast) 
 I don't know give it all a try have some fun eh....I will guess filling caps only in two stage output circuit with peak coil shorting will do it for you with that particular generator....maybe pulse the generator as to be a motor, and spin the Samsung as a generator:?....With all its magnets, you will have much less rpms to it for the delayed lenz effect would be more practical.
 Looks great what you did ! Photo is great....keep sending photos it is so nice I can see them now.
 Kone

Hi Warren,
Where is the chapter 32 in the latest Patrick KellyWhat i have found is 
 Author: Patrick J. Kelly Version: 34.3 Release date: 117 March 2019 

And there is no chapter 32!!!
Jean

    On Tuesday, March 26, 2019, 1:01:45 p.m. EDT, Warren Keillor [email protected] [EVGRAY] <[email protected]> wrote:  
 
  


DougThis is how I have connected the Samsung motor to the 2.6 KW generator.Now I must drive that Samsung at 3600 rpm, using up to 400 volts of pulsed DCGetting 400 volts DC is no problem
Getting  it pulsed, and sequenced, is the issue, along with applying it at the precise moment in time.I have an Arduino board, and am building a circuit designed by Thomas Buie.It is published by Patrick Kelly in the latest version of his on line book chapter 32.The circuit requires feed back from the coils to sense position.However, there is a problem.EMF, our old problem buddy can shoot back into the controller, and kill the brains,A schottky diode might protect the gate drivers, but then squelch the position signal. Hmmmmm?
Ideas? ( Doug. I love your mechanical solution, but this sucker is way up in RF frequencies)Cheers Warren
Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

Hi Bob and everyone
 I had a person from California call me up  about 6 years ago, someone gave him my number....he and a team of people had built an electric turbine race car that was going to be raced at Indianapolis they hoped,,,,the race car was made back in the 70s....so the electric motor was going super fast for something fairly large I think it was around 40K rpm if not twice that so of course perfect balancing required who knows maybe it had two counter-rotating rotors too I don't know the details exactly, but he wanted to tell me about how they did the commutation, and he said carbon brush/ copper commutator was impossible, and hall effects did not work neither did optical commutators with mosfets BUT he wanted to tell me the only thing that worked was the "trigger wind" within the coil, similar to the Bedini school girl motor method and is also done with rene charger and some other stuff, where you have the power/motor coil, but there is a wind within it, that trips the transistor or mosfet whenever  the coil is energized, or in case of motor, whenever the rotor magnet passes by inducing a small charge into that trigger wind instantly and for some reason this is the only thing they could get to work at super high "electric turbine" speeds....remember the indy STP turbine car? This was going to be the next step and an electric turbine........so pretty interesting eh
 Kone

> EMF, our old problem buddy can shoot back into the controller, and kill the brains,
> A schottky diode might protect the gate drivers, but then squelch the position signal. Hmmmmm?
> Ideas? ( Doug. I love your mechanical solution, but this sucker is way up in RF frequencies)

Optic Gate Drivers are the general solution today.

Bodo's Power Magazine out of Germany will give you some ideas if you
pursue the archives.
The magazine is free and anyone on this list will probably find it of value.

https://bodospower.com/

You will also find the application notes here of interest:

https://unitedsic.com/downloads/

United's parts are an interesting Cascod that gives it some unique properties.
The start at 650V  and are now available from DigiKey.
Use the four terminal devices to minimize false triggering.

The fisher n paykel is a motor and generator in one. No need for that huge lump of metal to be attached.

Hey DougIt is great that you can see my pictures.Wow! What a lot of information to process!I think it is wise for me not having made the bushing just yet, to add an extra length of shaft beyond the shaft locking nut, of perhaps 1/2" diameter so that any possible commutator combinations can be triedI agree that mechanical is far less subject to Boeing computer glitches, sun spots, or resonating with Leslie Gore, singing "It'my party and I'll cry if I want to", and shutting down the generator.I am hoping we can use the Arduino to find the happy spots, flitting all over the places, then establishing the good ones, set it up, so we can re-visit with hardware, once the math is figured out.Even putting a timing belt on the output shaft can be done
Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
 
  On Tue, 26 Mar 2019 at 2:48 PM, [email protected] [EVGRAY]<[email protected]> wrote:       


Hi Warren

Your photo came through beautiful...using chrome browser not explorer fixed it I think I can see your photos fine.

Looks really good and clean.. maybe you can go for highest impedance possible in the generator (460V circuit??) and try and find sweet spot in rpms where the delayed lenz takes over to beat lenz....also you could put timing disc on shaft, and pulse (or short) generator phases into unloaded all by themselves capacitors, then do some switching where caps disconnect from generator, and then caps again (2nd stage) all by themselves dump into load while disconnected from generator phase so resistive loading has zero effect on motor, however loading up caps again will, so experiment with draining caps only down so much (lots of difference from filling 2000uf cap at zero volts and 2000uf cap at  75V for an example) also resistance value of what caps dump into will mean a lot in what you have in cap for next fill cycle, as well as pulse width, and how many pulses too between fill cycles of course....whole idea with shorting coils through FWBR into caps is you can blast them very much higher in volts and if you keep pulse width short to the short and have it occur exactly at the peak of voltage from generator phase it will not affect motor, or very little, when the generator phases fill up the caps....Gary Porter just demonstrated this!! About two weeks ago he used a "Doug Konzen" circuit he calls it to fill caps from both his pickup winds around the stock winds in his Samsung, and also from his ECM motors being belted to the Samsung shaft too this I call the two-stage outpout circuit where you fill caps only, then caps only dump to load then you do it again and again....Gary reported also that you must do it at voltage peak, to make it non reflective fill up caps, just as I have always reported doing peak coil shorting too...

You might want to make a copper commutator as you are expert at, to do pulsing-out and any peak coil shorting to that generator as you don't have to do lots of soldering and ordering lots of parts many of which will blow up as you experiment....peak coil shorting like mechanical commutators since resistance as low as you can get.....

Rem ember Woopy got 2200 rpm as the magic frequency of delayed lenz where rotor sped up under loading and he had a high impedasce coil and 16 NS magnets plus iron core....so shift the numbers around for how many poles in your generator.....I have a feeling only 4 this means 8800rom to that generator to find no lenz in a very ballpark prediction so you might not find anything as that is such high rpm its going to explode unless perfect balancing and bearings will wear out quick...(Why to belt up generators to higher rpms so motor doesn't have to work so hard and go so fast) 

I don't know give it all a try have some fun eh....I will guess filling caps only in two stage output circuit with peak coil shorting will do it for you with that particular generator....maybe pulse the generator as to be a motor, and spin the Samsung as a generator:?....With all its magnets, you will have much less rpms to it for the delayed lenz effect would be more practical.

Looks great what you did ! Photo is great....keep sending photos it is so nice I can see them now.

Kone

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JeanLet me see if I can transfer it or get a link for you.Cheers Warren

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
 
  On Tue, 26 Mar 2019 at 3:03 PM, Jean Bourg [email protected] [EVGRAY]<[email protected]> wrote:       

 Hi Warren,
Where is the chapter 32 in the latest Patrick KellyWhat i have found is 
 Author: Patrick J. Kelly Version: 34.3 Release date: 117 March 2019 

And there is no chapter 32!!!
Jean

    On Tuesday, March 26, 2019, 1:01:45 p.m. EDT, Warren Keillor [email protected] [EVGRAY] <[email protected]> wrote:  
 
  


DougThis is how I have connected the Samsung motor to the 2.6 KW generator.Now I must drive that Samsung at 3600 rpm, using up to 400 volts of pulsed DCGetting 400 volts DC is no problem
Getting  it pulsed, and sequenced, is the issue, along with applying it at the precise moment in time.I have an Arduino board, and am building a circuit designed by Thomas Buie.It is published by Patrick Kelly in the latest version of his on line book chapter 32.The circuit requires feed back from the coils to sense position.However, there is a problem.EMF, our old problem buddy can shoot back into the controller, and kill the brains,A schottky diode might protect the gate drivers, but then squelch the position signal. Hmmmmm?
Ideas? ( Doug. I love your mechanical solution, but this sucker is way up in RF frequencies)Cheers Warren
Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

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Bob,

I presented the resolution a few posts back to stop the spike from
backfiring, a common mode filter, just switch one rail out of the
circuit until its needed or wire accordingly, passes differential
current opposes common mode.  Torroid with two wires on opposing sides
wound in opposing directions

On 3/26/2019 5:30 PM, Bob Paddock [email protected] [EVGRAY] wrote:
>  
>
> > EMF, our old problem buddy can shoot back into the controller, and
> kill the brains,
> > A schottky diode might protect the gate drivers, but then squelch
> the position signal. Hmmmmm?
> > Ideas? ( Doug. I love your mechanical solution, but this sucker is
> way up in RF frequencies)
>
> Optic Gate Drivers are the general solution today.
>
> Bodo's Power Magazine out of Germany will give you some ideas if you
> pursue the archives.
> The magazine is free and anyone on this list will probably find it of
> value.
>
> https://bodospower.com/
>
> You will also find the application notes here of interest:
>
> https://unitedsic.com/downloads/
>
> United's parts are an interesting Cascod that gives it some unique
> properties.
> The start at 650V and are now available from DigiKey.
> Use the four terminal devices to minimize false triggering.
>
>