Modifying an SMA Tripower 15kw grid tied inverter to stand alone

Anyone got any experience of modifying SMA Tripower 15kw grid tied inverters to stand alone off the grid?
Thanks in advance for any advice.
George

I think that grid tie inverters use the grid to chop up the DC so that the frequency is synchronized and doesn't clash with the grid, so to stand alone they would require added circuits to create the alternating frequency, may be it would be easier to use a stand alone inverter for off grid use and switch to the grid tie one when you want to export surplus to the grid.cheersEduardo

    On Tuesday, 3 July 2018, 5:18:11 pm AEST, george gray [email protected] [EVGRAY] <[email protected]> wrote:  
 
  

Anyone got any experience of modifying SMA Tripower 15kw grid tied inverters to stand alone off the grid?
Thanks in advance for any advice.
George

Hi George,

If it's this one 'Sunny Tripower '15000TL' (http://files.sma.de/dl/24336/STP25000TL-30-DEN1742-V31web.pdf http://files.sma.de/dl/24336/STP25000TL-30-DEN1742-V31web.pdf) it is off-grid capable:
 Off-Grid capable / SMA Fuel Save Controller compatible       ● / ●


● Standard features ○ Optional features — Not available

Regards
Ole

 

---In [email protected], <canowindracd@...> wrote :

 Anyone got any experience of modifying SMA Tripower 15kw grid tied inverters to stand alone off the grid?
 

 Thanks in advance for any advice.
 

 George

Eduardo,
Thanks for the advice mate.  I have 2 of these 15 kw 3 phase inverters in parallel and I'm looking to get off the grid altogether.  I don't want to switch back to the grid.  I have 24 kws of solar panels, 96 panels in all and I have a couple of generators and I want to get a battery bank etc.
George



    On Tuesday, 3 July 2018, 7:01:18 pm AEST, Eduardo Codina [email protected] [EVGRAY] <[email protected]> wrote:  
 
     

 I think that grid tie inverters use the grid to chop up the DC so that the frequency is synchronized and doesn't clash with the grid, so to stand alone they would require added circuits to create the alternating frequency, may be it would be easier to use a stand alone inverter for off grid use and switch to the grid tie one when you want to export surplus to the grid.cheersEduardo

    On Tuesday, 3 July 2018, 5:18:11 pm AEST, george gray [email protected] [EVGRAY] <[email protected]> wrote:  
 
  

Anyone got any experience of modifying SMA Tripower 15kw grid tied inverters to stand alone off the grid?
Thanks in advance for any advice.
George

Hi Ole,
Thanks for your help mate, I have 2 of these inverters in parallel.

I see the Off-Grid capable / SMA Fuel Save Controller compatible       ● / ●  but I still don't know what the black dot symbols represent.
Do you think it means that the inverter will operate without the 415 volt input from the grid?
George


    On Tuesday, 3 July 2018, 7:16:21 pm AEST, [email protected] [EVGRAY] <[email protected]> wrote:  
 
     

Hi George,

If it's this one 'Sunny Tripower '15000TL' (http://files.sma.de/dl/24336/STP25000TL-30-DEN1742-V31web.pdf) it is off-grid capable:Off-Grid capable / SMA Fuel Save Controller compatible       ● / ●

● Standard features ○ Optional features — Not available

Regards
Ole



---In [email protected], <canowindracd@...> wrote :

Anyone got any experience of modifying SMA Tripower 15kw grid tied inverters to stand alone off the grid?
Thanks in advance for any advice.
George

Hi George,

The black dot tells that it is standard feature which means it can run as a simple non grid tied inverter.

Regards
Ole
 

---In [email protected], <canowindracd@...> wrote :

 
 Hi Ole,
 

 Thanks for your help mate, I have 2 of these inverters in parallel.

 

 I see the Off-Grid capable / SMA Fuel Save Controller compatible       ● / ●  but I still don't know what the black dot symbols represent.
 

 Do you think it means that the inverter will operate without the 415 volt input from the grid?
 

 George

 

 


 On Tuesday, 3 July 2018, 7:16:21 pm AEST, onielsen@... [EVGRAY] <[email protected]> wrote: 
 

 

   
 Hi George,

If it's this one 'Sunny Tripower '15000TL' (http://files.sma.de/dl/24336/STP25000TL-30-DEN1742-V31web.pdf http://files.sma.de/dl/24336/STP25000TL-30-DEN1742-V31web.pdf) it is off-grid capable:
 Off-Grid capable / SMA Fuel Save Controller compatible       ● / ●


● Standard features ○ Optional features — Not available

Regards
Ole

 

---In [email protected], <canowindracd@...> wrote :

 Anyone got any experience of modifying SMA Tripower 15kw grid tied inverters to stand alone off the grid?
 

 Thanks in advance for any advice.
 

 George

Andreas,
Yes mate, I love the NiFe batteries and I had a lot of experience servicing and looking after them in the Navy.  We used them everywhere for emergency lighting.  They are so robust and can take a lot of abuse in over charging and non charging for long periods etc.  They are said to be able to last 100 years.
Thanks for your advice mate.
George

    On Wednesday, 4 July 2018, 10:14:38 pm AEST, Andreas Höschler [email protected] [EVGRAY] <[email protected]> wrote:  
 
     
Hi George,


On 04 Jul 2018, at 14:01, george gray [email protected] [EVGRAY] <[email protected]> wrote:
Thanks for the advice mate.  I have 2 of these 15 kw 3 phase inverters in parallel and I'm looking to get off the grid altogether.  I don't want to switch back to the grid.  I have 24 kws of solar panels, 96 panels in all and I have a couple of generators and I want to get a battery bank etc.

I would recommend a bank of NiFes, e.g.
 http://www.taihangbatteries.com/products/nickel-iron-battery/tn/tn200-2.html
40 x 1.2V will get you a reliable 48V bank. 24kW is a lot. If we only knew a means to store hydrogen efficiently. Hard to get Li-6 hydride ... Any other ideas?
 Andreas

Hi George,

> On 04 Jul 2018, at 14:01, george gray [email protected] [EVGRAY] <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> Thanks for the advice mate.  I have 2 of these 15 kw 3 phase inverters in parallel and I'm looking to get off the grid altogether.  I don't want to switch back to the grid.  I have 24 kws of solar panels, 96 panels in all and I have a couple of generators and I want to get a battery bank etc.

I would recommend a bank of NiFes, e.g.

	http://www.taihangbatteries.com/products/nickel-iron-battery/tn/tn200-2.html <http://www.taihangbatteries.com/products/nickel-iron-battery/tn/tn200-2.html>

40 x 1.2V will get you a reliable 48V bank. 24kW is a lot. If we only knew a means to store hydrogen efficiently. Hard to get Li-6 hydride ... Any other ideas?

 Andreas

Good on you George, keep us posted on your progress, here is a link for a search on Vanadium redox batteries, they were invented in Au. the Howard Gov. failed to promote them but they are still around.cheersEduardo

    On Wednesday, 4 July 2018, 10:02:01 pm AEST, george gray [email protected] [EVGRAY] <[email protected]> wrote:  
 
 

 Eduardo,
Thanks for the advice mate.  I have 2 of these 15 kw 3 phase inverters in parallel and I'm looking to get off the grid altogether.  I don't want to switch back to the grid.  I have 24 kws of solar panels, 96 panels in all and I have a couple of generators and I want to get a battery bank etc.
George



    On Tuesday, 3 July 2018, 7:01:18 pm AEST, Eduardo Codina [email protected] [EVGRAY] <[email protected]> wrote:  
 
     

 I think that grid tie inverters use the grid to chop up the DC so that the frequency is synchronized and doesn't clash with the grid, so to stand alone they would require added circuits to create the alternating frequency, may be it would be easier to use a stand alone inverter for off grid use and switch to the grid tie one when you want to export surplus to the grid.cheersEduardo

    On Tuesday, 3 July 2018, 5:18:11 pm AEST, george gray [email protected] [EVGRAY] <[email protected]> wrote:  
 
  

Anyone got any experience of modifying SMA Tripower 15kw grid tied inverters to stand alone off the grid?
Thanks in advance for any advice.
George

Sorry, here is the link
redox battery price - Google Search

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redox battery price - Google Search


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    On Thursday, 5 July 2018, 10:06:04 am AEST, Eduardo Codina [email protected] [EVGRAY] <[email protected]> wrote:  
 
 

 Good on you George, keep us posted on your progress, here is a link for a search on Vanadium redox batteries, they were invented in Au. the Howard Gov. failed to promote them but they are still around.cheersEduardo

    On Wednesday, 4 July 2018, 10:02:01 pm AEST, george gray [email protected] [EVGRAY] <[email protected]> wrote:  
 
 

 Eduardo,
Thanks for the advice mate.  I have 2 of these 15 kw 3 phase inverters in parallel and I'm looking to get off the grid altogether.  I don't want to switch back to the grid.  I have 24 kws of solar panels, 96 panels in all and I have a couple of generators and I want to get a battery bank etc.
George



    On Tuesday, 3 July 2018, 7:01:18 pm AEST, Eduardo Codina [email protected] [EVGRAY] <[email protected]> wrote:  
 
     

 I think that grid tie inverters use the grid to chop up the DC so that the frequency is synchronized and doesn't clash with the grid, so to stand alone they would require added circuits to create the alternating frequency, may be it would be easier to use a stand alone inverter for off grid use and switch to the grid tie one when you want to export surplus to the grid.cheersEduardo

    On Tuesday, 3 July 2018, 5:18:11 pm AEST, george gray [email protected] [EVGRAY] <[email protected]> wrote:  
 
  

Anyone got any experience of modifying SMA Tripower 15kw grid tied inverters to stand alone off the grid?
Thanks in advance for any advice.
George

Hi Ole,
Thanks for the good advice mate.
George

    On Wednesday, 4 July 2018, 10:24:09 pm AEST, [email protected] [EVGRAY] <[email protected]> wrote:  
 
     
Hi George,

The black dot tells that it is standard feature which means it can run as a simple non grid tied inverter.

Regards
Ole



---In [email protected], <canowindracd@...> wrote :

Hi Ole,
Thanks for your help mate, I have 2 of these inverters in parallel.

I see the Off-Grid capable / SMA Fuel Save Controller compatible       ● / ●  but I still don't know what the black dot symbols represent.
Do you think it means that the inverter will operate without the 415 volt input from the grid?
George



 On Tuesday, 3 July 2018, 7:16:21 pm AEST, onielsen@... [EVGRAY] <[email protected]> wrote:


 

Hi George,

If it's this one 'Sunny Tripower '15000TL' (http://files.sma.de/dl/24336/STP25000TL-30-DEN1742-V31web.pdf) it is off-grid capable:Off-Grid capable / SMA Fuel Save Controller compatible       ● / ●

● Standard features ○ Optional features — Not available

Regards
Ole



---In [email protected], <canowindracd@...> wrote :

Anyone got any experience of modifying SMA Tripower 15kw grid tied inverters to stand alone off the grid?
Thanks in advance for any advice.
George

Eduardo,
Did you forget the link mate?
George

    On Thursday, 5 July 2018, 10:06:07 am AEST, Eduardo Codina [email protected] [EVGRAY] <[email protected]> wrote:  
 
     

 Good on you George, keep us posted on your progress, here is a link for a search on Vanadium redox batteries, they were invented in Au. the Howard Gov. failed to promote them but they are still around.cheersEduardo

    On Wednesday, 4 July 2018, 10:02:01 pm AEST, george gray [email protected] [EVGRAY] <[email protected]> wrote:  
 
 

 Eduardo,
Thanks for the advice mate.  I have 2 of these 15 kw 3 phase inverters in parallel and I'm looking to get off the grid altogether.  I don't want to switch back to the grid.  I have 24 kws of solar panels, 96 panels in all and I have a couple of generators and I want to get a battery bank etc.
George



    On Tuesday, 3 July 2018, 7:01:18 pm AEST, Eduardo Codina [email protected] [EVGRAY] <[email protected]> wrote:  
 
     

 I think that grid tie inverters use the grid to chop up the DC so that the frequency is synchronized and doesn't clash with the grid, so to stand alone they would require added circuits to create the alternating frequency, may be it would be easier to use a stand alone inverter for off grid use and switch to the grid tie one when you want to export surplus to the grid.cheersEduardo

    On Tuesday, 3 July 2018, 5:18:11 pm AEST, george gray [email protected] [EVGRAY] <[email protected]> wrote:  
 
  

Anyone got any experience of modifying SMA Tripower 15kw grid tied inverters to stand alone off the grid?
Thanks in advance for any advice.
George

Hi George,

some weeks ago I visited the fair in munich and have seen some interesting battery solutions:

*	Salt water battery – uses only salty water, which isn’t dangerous. Deep cycle discharge up to 100% is possible. Livecycle minimum 15 years with 80% power.
*	Crystal battery – unfortunately a special charging electronic is necessary
*	Redox flow – actually in size of a refrigerator with 6 kwh storage. 

My favorite is the salt water battery, because it is easy in installation.

 

As I wrote weeks ago in this forum I am working on independency solutions with a friend and some engineers. My personal conclusion is:

The costs for energy storage in Germany is actually between 650 € and 1000 € per kwh. Even if you calculate a livecycle of 15 years and an average use of 60%  your costs per kwh is in the same range as from the common suppliers. And your 24 Kw PV Generator will produce much more energy as a normal house would use – but not to the right time. With a total off-grid installation you cannot sell the energy that cannot be used in the moment and batteries are charged. 

I don’t know your special situation weather about energy usage in your house (heating with electricity) nor about your energy production. The following proposal is only if your situation is normal ( consumption of 5000 kwh / year, Sunshine-hours around 1000 per year, warm water and heating with solar water panels and in additional electric heating combined with oil or gas. 

I would think about a storage to get an independence of maybe 1-2 days but actually with grid connection. You can get some cash with selling energy and this can be invested in better storage technology. This could bring an independency of more something around 90% over the year. 

But maybe in your case it can be different.

 

HD

 

 

Von: [email protected] <[email protected]> 
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 5. Juli 2018 02:06
An: george gray [email protected] [EVGRAY] <[email protected]>
Betreff: Re: [EVGRAY] Modifying an SMA Tripower 15kw grid tied inverter to stand alone

 

  

Good on you George, keep us posted on your progress, here is a link for a search on Vanadium redox batteries, they were invented in Au. the Howard Gov. failed to promote them but they are still around.

cheers

Eduardo

 

On Wednesday, 4 July 2018, 10:02:01 pm AEST, george gray [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>  [EVGRAY] <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > wrote: 

 

 

 

Eduardo,

 

Thanks for the advice mate.  I have 2 of these 15 kw 3 phase inverters in parallel and I'm looking to get off the grid altogether.  I don't want to switch back to the grid.  I have 24 kws of solar panels, 96 panels in all and I have a couple of generators and I want to get a battery bank etc.

 

George

 

 

 

On Tuesday, 3 July 2018, 7:01:18 pm AEST, Eduardo Codina [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>  [EVGRAY] <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > wrote: 

 

 

  

I think that grid tie inverters use the grid to chop up the DC so that the frequency is synchronized and doesn't clash with the grid, so to stand alone they would require added circuits to create the alternating frequency, may be it would be easier to use a stand alone inverter for off grid use and switch to the grid tie one when you want to export surplus to the grid.

cheers

Eduardo

 

On Tuesday, 3 July 2018, 5:18:11 pm AEST, george gray [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>  [EVGRAY] <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > wrote: 

 

 

 

Anyone got any experience of modifying SMA Tripower 15kw grid tied inverters to stand alone off the grid?

 

Thanks in advance for any advice.

 

George

Can you explain the salt water batteries ?
On Jul 11, 2018 2:45 AM, "'HD Zeddies' [email protected] [EVGRAY]" <
[email protected]> wrote:

>
>
> Hi George,
>
> some weeks ago I visited the fair in munich and have seen some interesting
> battery solutions:
>
>    - Salt water battery – uses only salty water, which isn’t dangerous.
>    Deep cycle discharge up to 100% is possible. Livecycle minimum 15 years
>    with 80% power.
>    - Crystal battery – unfortunately a special charging electronic is
>    necessary
>    - Redox flow – actually in size of a refrigerator with 6 kwh storage.
>
> My favorite is the salt water battery, because it is easy in installation.
>
>
>
> As I wrote weeks ago in this forum I am working on independency solutions
> with a friend and some engineers. My personal conclusion is:
>
> The costs for energy storage in Germany is actually between 650 € and 1000
> € per kwh. Even if you calculate a livecycle of 15 years and an average use
> of 60%  your costs per kwh is in the same range as from the common
> suppliers. And your 24 Kw PV Generator will produce much more energy as a
> normal house would use – but not to the right time. With a total off-grid
> installation you cannot sell the energy that cannot be used in the moment
> and batteries are charged.
>
> I don’t know your special situation weather about energy usage in your
> house (heating with electricity) nor about your energy production. The
> following proposal is only if your situation is normal ( consumption of
> 5000 kwh / year, Sunshine-hours around 1000 per year, warm water and
> heating with solar water panels and in additional electric heating combined
> with oil or gas.
>
> I would think about a storage to get an independence of maybe 1-2 days but
> actually with grid connection. You can get some cash with selling energy
> and this can be invested in better storage technology. This could bring an
> independency of more something around 90% over the year.
>
> But maybe in your case it can be different.
>
>
>
> HD
>
>
>
>
>
> *Von:* [email protected] <[email protected]>
> *Gesendet:* Donnerstag, 5. Juli 2018 02:06
> *An:* george gray [email protected] [EVGRAY] <
> [email protected]>
> *Betreff:* Re: [EVGRAY] Modifying an SMA Tripower 15kw grid tied inverter
> to stand alone
>
>
>
>
>
> Good on you George, keep us posted on your progress, here is a link for a
> search on Vanadium redox batteries, they were invented in Au. the Howard
> Gov. failed to promote them but they are still around.
>
> cheers
>
> Eduardo
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, 4 July 2018, 10:02:01 pm AEST, george gray
> [email protected] [EVGRAY] <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Eduardo,
>
>
>
> Thanks for the advice mate.  I have 2 of these 15 kw 3 phase inverters in
> parallel and I'm looking to get off the grid altogether.  I don't want to
> switch back to the grid.  I have 24 kws of solar panels, 96 panels in all
> and I have a couple of generators and I want to get a battery bank etc.
>
>
>
> George
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, 3 July 2018, 7:01:18 pm AEST, Eduardo Codina
> [email protected] [EVGRAY] <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I think that grid tie inverters use the grid to chop up the DC so that the
> frequency is synchronized and doesn't clash with the grid, so to stand
> alone they would require added circuits to create the alternating
> frequency, may be it would be easier to use a stand alone inverter for off
> grid use and switch to the grid tie one when you want to export surplus to
> the grid.
>
> cheers
>
> Eduardo
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, 3 July 2018, 5:18:11 pm AEST, george gray
> [email protected] [EVGRAY] <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Anyone got any experience of modifying SMA Tripower 15kw grid tied
> inverters to stand alone off the grid?
>
>
>
> Thanks in advance for any advice.
>
>
>
> George
>
>
>
>
>
> 
>

Hi HD,
You are right about the grid being good, and in my opinion the grid is the cheapest back-up battery, and the retailer also pays me for my input to the grid.  I never have to pay an electricity account as I'm always in credit a long way.

When we have a blackout my solar system doesn't generate any power and I can't use the power that my solar cells should be making, so I want to modify my inverter, but Ole said my inverters were capable of running off the grid in a stand alone situation.  I'm still checking on that.

I first want to have an inverter that can run off grid and then I can use the power I generate at any time.  I also want to be able to go off the grid when I choose even at a moment's notice.

So I'm just getting ready for when the SHTF time and I can be self sufficient.
In this regard I'm looking at all the options now, and not when it's too late.
I also will not have a smart meter on my property and if they try to force that on me I will buy batteries and go off the grid if necessary.
How Smart Meters Affect Your Body

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How Smart Meters Affect Your Body

The first 10 min. are foundational information, then specific effects on humans are shown. Here is the conversat...
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George




    On Wednesday, 11 July 2018, 5:45:03 pm AEST, 'HD Zeddies' [email protected] [EVGRAY] <[email protected]> wrote:  
 
     


Hi George,

some weeks ago I visited the fair in munich and have seen some interesting battery solutions:
   
   - Salt water battery – uses only salty water, which isn’t dangerous. Deep cycle discharge up to 100% is possible. Livecycle minimum 15 years with 80% power.
   - Crystal battery – unfortunately a special charging electronic is necessary
   - Redox flow – actually in size of a refrigerator with 6 kwh storage. 

My favorite is the salt water battery, because it is easy in installation.

  

As I wrote weeks ago in this forum I am working on independency solutions with a friend and some engineers. My personal conclusion is:

The costs for energy storage in Germany is actually between 650 € and 1000 € per kwh. Even if you calculate a livecycle of 15 years and an average use of 60%  your costs per kwh is in the same range as from the common suppliers. And your 24 Kw PV Generator will produce much more energy as a normal house would use – but not to the right time. With a total off-grid installation you cannot sell the energy that cannot be used in the moment and batteries are charged. 

I don’t know your special situation weather about energy usage in your house (heating with electricity) nor about your energy production. The following proposal is only if your situation is normal ( consumption of 5000 kwh / year, Sunshine-hours around 1000 per year, warm water and heating with solar water panels and in additional electric heating combined with oil or gas. 

I would think about a storage to get an independence of maybe 1-2 days but actually with grid connection. You can get some cash with selling energy and this can be invested in better storage technology. This could bring an independency of more something around 90% over the year. 

But maybe in your case it can be different.

  

HD

  

  

Von: [email protected] <[email protected]> 
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 5. Juli 2018 02:06
An: george gray [email protected] [EVGRAY] <[email protected]>
Betreff: Re: [EVGRAY] Modifying an SMA Tripower 15kw grid tied inverter to stand alone

  

  

Good on you George, keep us posted on your progress, here is a link for a search on Vanadium redox batteries, they were invented in Au. the Howard Gov. failed to promote them but they are still around.

cheers

Eduardo

  

On Wednesday, 4 July 2018, 10:02:01 pm AEST, george gray [email protected] [EVGRAY] <[email protected]> wrote: 

  

  

  

Eduardo,

  

Thanks for the advice mate.  I have 2 of these 15 kw 3 phase inverters in parallel and I'm looking to get off the grid altogether.  I don't want to switch back to the grid.  I have 24 kws of solar panels, 96 panels in all and I have a couple of generators and I want to get a battery bank etc.

  

George

  

  

  

On Tuesday, 3 July 2018, 7:01:18 pm AEST, Eduardo Codina [email protected] [EVGRAY] <[email protected]> wrote: 

  

  

  

I think that grid tie inverters use the grid to chop up the DC so that the frequency is synchronized and doesn't clash with the grid, so to stand alone they would require added circuits to create the alternating frequency, may be it would be easier to use a stand alone inverter for off grid use and switch to the grid tie one when you want to export surplus to the grid.

cheers

Eduardo

  

On Tuesday, 3 July 2018, 5:18:11 pm AEST, george gray [email protected] [EVGRAY] <[email protected]> wrote: 

  

  

  

Anyone got any experience of modifying SMA Tripower 15kw grid tied inverters to stand alone off the grid?

  

Thanks in advance for any advice.

  

George

Hallo Heinz-Dieter,
ein aktuelles Interview mit Batterie Pionier Mirko Hannemann:KenFM im Gespräch mit: Mirko Hannemann (Batterie-Pionier)
Hier erfährst Du auch die Gründe warum leistungsfähige und kostengünstige Batterielösungen nicht erwünscht sind ;). Daher halte ich den Bleibatterie Speicher für stationäre Lösungen immer noch für konkurrenzfähig, besonders wenn die Kristall-Batterien eine bestimmte, aufwendige? Ladeelektronik benötigen. Salzwasserbatterien (25Wh pro Liter) haben eine viel geringere Energiedichte als Bleibatterien (100Wh pro Liter), eine schlechtere Entladeleistung, sind mindestens noch genau so teuer und kaum als Recycling Varianten verfügbar. Die Lebensdauer mit 3000 Zyklen soll auch nicht höher als bei Blei (ohne Desulfatierung) sein. Hier ein umfangreicher Vergleich der Batterietechnologien der einzelnen Hersteller:https://www.carmen-ev.de/files/Sonne_Wind_und_Co/Speicher/Markt%C3%BCbersicht-Batteriespeicher_2017.pdf 
Besten GrußLars







    On Wednesday, July 11, 2018, 9:45:03 AM GMT+2, 'HD Zeddies' [email protected] [EVGRAY] <[email protected]> wrote:  
 
     


Hi George,

some weeks ago I visited the fair in munich and have seen some interesting battery solutions:
   
   - Salt water battery – uses only salty water, which isn’t dangerous. Deep cycle discharge up to 100% is possible. Livecycle minimum 15 years with 80% power.
   - Crystal battery – unfortunately a special charging electronic is necessary
   - Redox flow – actually in size of a refrigerator with 6 kwh storage. 

My favorite is the salt water battery, because it is easy in installation.

  

As I wrote weeks ago in this forum I am working on independency solutions with a friend and some engineers. My personal conclusion is:

The costs for energy storage in Germany is actually between 650 € and 1000 € per kwh. Even if you calculate a livecycle of 15 years and an average use of 60%  your costs per kwh is in the same range as from the common suppliers. And your 24 Kw PV Generator will produce much more energy as a normal house would use – but not to the right time. With a total off-grid installation you cannot sell the energy that cannot be used in the moment and batteries are charged. 

I don’t know your special situation weather about energy usage in your house (heating with electricity) nor about your energy production. The following proposal is only if your situation is normal ( consumption of 5000 kwh / year, Sunshine-hours around 1000 per year, warm water and heating with solar water panels and in additional electric heating combined with oil or gas. 

I would think about a storage to get an independence of maybe 1-2 days but actually with grid connection. You can get some cash with selling energy and this can be invested in better storage technology. This could bring an independency of more something around 90% over the year. 

But maybe in your case it can be different.

  

HD

  

  

Von: [email protected] <[email protected]> 
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 5. Juli 2018 02:06
An: george gray [email protected] [EVGRAY] <[email protected]>
Betreff: Re: [EVGRAY] Modifying an SMA Tripower 15kw grid tied inverter to stand alone

  

  

Good on you George, keep us posted on your progress, here is a link for a search on Vanadium redox batteries, they were invented in Au. the Howard Gov. failed to promote them but they are still around.

cheers

Eduardo

  

On Wednesday, 4 July 2018, 10:02:01 pm AEST, george gray [email protected] [EVGRAY] <[email protected]> wrote: 

  

  

  

Eduardo,

  

Thanks for the advice mate.  I have 2 of these 15 kw 3 phase inverters in parallel and I'm looking to get off the grid altogether.  I don't want to switch back to the grid.  I have 24 kws of solar panels, 96 panels in all and I have a couple of generators and I want to get a battery bank etc.

  

George

  

  

  

On Tuesday, 3 July 2018, 7:01:18 pm AEST, Eduardo Codina [email protected] [EVGRAY] <[email protected]> wrote: 

  

  

  

I think that grid tie inverters use the grid to chop up the DC so that the frequency is synchronized and doesn't clash with the grid, so to stand alone they would require added circuits to create the alternating frequency, may be it would be easier to use a stand alone inverter for off grid use and switch to the grid tie one when you want to export surplus to the grid.

cheers

Eduardo

  

On Tuesday, 3 July 2018, 5:18:11 pm AEST, george gray [email protected] [EVGRAY] <[email protected]> wrote: 

  

  

  

Anyone got any experience of modifying SMA Tripower 15kw grid tied inverters to stand alone off the grid?

  

Thanks in advance for any advice.

  

George

GuysMy German is not so good, but those batteries are very interesting.I have a friend who might find them a solution to his battery needs.Is there any information in English?Cheers Warren
Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
 
  On Thu, 12 Jul 2018 at 7:27 AM, Thomas Frei [email protected] [EVGRAY]<[email protected]> wrote:       

 Hallo Heinz-Dieter,
ein aktuelles Interview mit Batterie Pionier Mirko Hannemann:KenFM im Gespräch mit: Mirko Hannemann (Batterie-Pionier)
Hier erfährst Du auch die Gründe warum leistungsfähige und kostengünstige Batterielösungen nicht erwünscht sind ;). Daher halte ich den Bleibatterie Speicher für stationäre Lösungen immer noch für konkurrenzfähig, besonders wenn die Kristall-Batterien eine bestimmte, aufwendige? Ladeelektronik benötigen. Salzwasserbatterien (25Wh pro Liter) haben eine viel geringere Energiedichte als Bleibatterien (100Wh pro Liter), eine schlechtere Entladeleistung, sind mindestens noch genau so teuer und kaum als Recycling Varianten verfügbar. Die Lebensdauer mit 3000 Zyklen soll auch nicht höher als bei Blei (ohne Desulfatierung) sein. Hier ein umfangreicher Vergleich der Batterietechnologien der einzelnen Hersteller:https://www.carmen-ev.de/files/Sonne_Wind_und_Co/Speicher/Markt%C3%BCbersicht-Batteriespeicher_2017.pdf 
Besten GrußLars







    On Wednesday, July 11, 2018, 9:45:03 AM GMT+2, 'HD Zeddies' [email protected] [EVGRAY] <[email protected]> wrote:  
 
     


Hi George,

some weeks ago I visited the fair in munich and have seen some interesting battery solutions:
   
   - Salt water battery – uses only salty water, which isn’t dangerous. Deep cycle discharge up to 100% is possible. Livecycle minimum 15 years with 80% power.
   - Crystal battery – unfortunately a special charging electronic is necessary
   - Redox flow – actually in size of a refrigerator with 6 kwh storage. 

My favorite is the salt water battery, because it is easy in installation.

  

As I wrote weeks ago in this forum I am working on independency solutions with a friend and some engineers. My personal conclusion is:

The costs for energy storage in Germany is actually between 650 € and 1000 € per kwh. Even if you calculate a livecycle of 15 years and an average use of 60%  your costs per kwh is in the same range as from the common suppliers. And your 24 Kw PV Generator will produce much more energy as a normal house would use – but not to the right time. With a total off-grid installation you cannot sell the energy that cannot be used in the moment and batteries are charged. 

I don’t know your special situation weather about energy usage in your house (heating with electricity) nor about your energy production. The following proposal is only if your situation is normal ( consumption of 5000 kwh / year, Sunshine-hours around 1000 per year, warm water and heating with solar water panels and in additional electric heating combined with oil or gas. 

I would think about a storage to get an independence of maybe 1-2 days but actually with grid connection. You can get some cash with selling energy and this can be invested in better storage technology. This could bring an independency of more something around 90% over the year. 

But maybe in your case it can be different.

  

HD

  

  

Von: [email protected] <[email protected]> 
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 5. Juli 2018 02:06
An: george gray [email protected] [EVGRAY] <[email protected]>
Betreff: Re: [EVGRAY] Modifying an SMA Tripower 15kw grid tied inverter to stand alone

  

  

Good on you George, keep us posted on your progress, here is a link for a search on Vanadium redox batteries, they were invented in Au. the Howard Gov. failed to promote them but they are still around.

cheers

Eduardo

  

On Wednesday, 4 July 2018, 10:02:01 pm AEST, george gray [email protected] [EVGRAY] <[email protected]> wrote: 

  

  

  

Eduardo,

  

Thanks for the advice mate.  I have 2 of these 15 kw 3 phase inverters in parallel and I'm looking to get off the grid altogether.  I don't want to switch back to the grid.  I have 24 kws of solar panels, 96 panels in all and I have a couple of generators and I want to get a battery bank etc.

  

George

  

  

  

On Tuesday, 3 July 2018, 7:01:18 pm AEST, Eduardo Codina [email protected] [EVGRAY] <[email protected]> wrote: 

  

  

  

I think that grid tie inverters use the grid to chop up the DC so that the frequency is synchronized and doesn't clash with the grid, so to stand alone they would require added circuits to create the alternating frequency, may be it would be easier to use a stand alone inverter for off grid use and switch to the grid tie one when you want to export surplus to the grid.

cheers

Eduardo

  

On Tuesday, 3 July 2018, 5:18:11 pm AEST, george gray [email protected] [EVGRAY] <[email protected]> wrote: 

  

  

  

Anyone got any experience of modifying SMA Tripower 15kw grid tied inverters to stand alone off the grid?

  

Thanks in advance for any advice.

  

George

  

  


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