Kohler generator

GuysHere I am, mired down in my experiment by a 120 /240 volt ac generator, that in spite of rotating the shaft at 3600 rpm , puts out nothing.Oh I flashed the contact rings with 15 volts ac, alright.I did research to some extent on the internet.Seems this can happenThe stater coils are perfect.The rotor coils are also perfect.The bearings are as new, tooThere are two brushes that ride on the slip rings they are fine, too.That leaves two componentsA little black epoxy encapsulated box,and a relay switch with120 v. ac coil operating a single pole switch.Essentially, six wires emerge from the stator coil. Two come to the voltage regulator. Switch on/off? The other four seem to go to the coils, or get grounded to the frame.Does anyone here, in our group know about small kohler construction generators when it comes to taking them apart?The internet goes over fixing one with my symptoms. It was the voltage regulator, that needed replacement.No problem! I'll just buy another.$300.00 US? WTF?You know what I am trying to do with this flywheel experiment.I am driving an AC motor to turn the flywheel , first, from power from the grid to the motor. When the motor is up to speed bingo! I switch over to the ac generator output from the grid driving the motor to the generator driving the motor with the inertia of the flywheelI don't know if it will work, that's not the point, because before I can do this, the damn generator has to run. It doesn't when I turn it separtely at proper speed from the grid.I don't want to spend $300 US for a regulator from Kohler.Do I even need a stinking regulator?Can I meter everything and adjust the rotor electromagnet with variable dc?There are five pins on the regulatorTwo go to the brushes for the slip ringsOne goes to the relayTwo are AC from the stater.It is a potted black box.The brush wires are marked + & - , so there must be diodes in there to rectify the ac? The orange wire coming fron the potted box goes to the relay primary coil, which then gets grounded to the chassis from the other pole.Something must be shutting off the relay when voltage reaches a certain voltage.Since the generator is slaved to the drive motor through the flywheel, why can't the experiment be mannually regulated?Can I just put a variac on the ac, coming from the stater coils into the regulator, rectify it, and then send it to the electro magnet rotor?Sorry for the long emailCheers Warren
Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

Correction: did flash with dcIt would seem regulator is toastIf the regulator doesn't work, no power gets to the electro magnet
of the armature rotor through the slip rings.This shuts the generator off should the gas engine suddenly find no load and let the voltage shoot up, destroying, say, a string of lights plugged into the generator.The flywheel should be a steady load anyway, whatever happens.I just need to find the wires that carry the AC load out, a bit confusing as it is 120 and 240 volts out. I think I know where the frame ground wires are.Cheers Warren
Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
 
  On Thu, Mar 15, 2018 at 2:54 PM, Warren Keillor [email protected] [EVGRAY]<[email protected]> wrote:       
Guys
Here I am, mired down in my experiment by a 120 /240 volt ac generator, that in spite of rotating the shaft at 3600 rpm , puts out nothing.Oh I flashed the contact rings with 15 volts ac, alright.I did research to some extent on the internet.Seems this can happenThe stater coils are perfect.The rotor coils are also perfect.The bearings are as new, tooThere are two brushes that ride on the slip rings they are fine, too.That leaves two componentsA little black epoxy encapsulated box,and a relay switch with120 v. ac coil operating a single pole switch.Essentially, six wires emerge from the stator coil. Two come to the voltage regulator. Switch on/off? The other four seem to go to the coils, or get grounded to the frame.Does anyone here, in our group know about small kohler construction generators when it comes to taking them apart?The internet goes over fixing one with my symptoms. It was the voltage regulator, that needed replacement.No problem! I'll just buy another.$300.00 US? WTF?You know what I am trying to do with this flywheel experiment.I am driving an AC motor to turn the flywheel , first, from power from the grid to the motor. When the motor is up to speed bingo! I switch over to the ac generator output from the grid driving the motor to the generator driving the motor with the inertia of the flywheelI don't know if it will work, that's not the point, because before I can do this, the damn generator has to run. It doesn't when I turn it separtely at proper speed from the grid.I don't want to spend $300 US for a regulator from Kohler.Do I even need a stinking regulator?Can I meter everything and adjust the rotor electromagnet with variable dc?There are five pins on the regulatorTwo go to the brushes for the slip ringsOne goes to the relayTwo are AC from the stater.It is a potted black box.The brush wires are marked + & - , so there must be diodes in there to rectify the ac? The orange wire coming fron the potted box goes to the relay primary coil, which then gets grounded to the chassis from the other pole.Something must be shutting off the relay when voltage reaches a certain voltage.Since the generator is slaved to the drive motor through the flywheel, why can't the experiment be mannually regulated?Can I just put a variac on the ac, coming from the stater coils into the regulator, rectify it, and then send it to the electro magnet rotor?Sorry for the long emailCheers Warren
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Hi Warren,
Try flashing with12V dc not ac from car battery with say a headlight bulb
in series, it needs some DC residual magnetism.
Like on car alternator low level dc current through rotor gets things
started there.

Just a suggestion I am no expert.
Gerry

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On Fri, Mar 16, 2018 at 5:54 AM, Warren Keillor
[email protected] [EVGRAY] <[email protected]> wrote:

>
>
> Guys
> Here I am, mired down in my experiment by a 120 /240 volt ac generator,
> that in spite of rotating the shaft at 3600 rpm , puts out nothing.
> Oh I flashed the contact rings with 15 volts ac, alright.
> I did research to some extent on the internet.
> Seems this can happen
> The stater coils are perfect.
> The rotor coils are also perfect.
> The bearings are as new, too
> There are two brushes that ride on the slip rings they are fine, too.
> That leaves two components
> A little black epoxy encapsulated box,
> and a relay switch with120 v. ac coil operating a single pole switch.
> Essentially, six wires emerge from the stator coil. Two come to the
> voltage regulator. Switch on/off?
> The other four seem to go to the coils, or get grounded to the frame.
> Does anyone here, in our group know about small kohler construction
> generators when it comes to taking them apart?
> The internet goes over fixing one with my symptoms. It was the voltage
> regulator, that needed replacement.
> No problem! I'll just buy another.
> $300.00 US? WTF?
> You know what I am trying to do with this flywheel experiment.
> I am driving an AC motor to turn the flywheel , first, from power from the
> grid to the motor. When the motor is up to speed bingo! I switch over to
> the ac generator output from the grid driving the motor to the generator
> driving the motor with the inertia of the flywheel
> I don't know if it will work, that's not the point, because before I can
> do this, the damn generator has to run. It doesn't when I turn it separtely
> at proper speed from the grid.
> I don't want to spend $300 US for a regulator from Kohler.
> Do I even need a stinking regulator?
> Can I meter everything and adjust the rotor electromagnet with variable dc?
> There are five pins on the regulator
> Two go to the brushes for the slip rings
> One goes to the relay
> Two are AC from the stater.
> It is a potted black box.
> The brush wires are marked + & - , so there must be diodes in there to
> rectify the ac? The orange wire coming fron the potted box goes to the
> relay primary coil, which then gets grounded to the chassis from the other
> pole.
> Something must be shutting off the relay when voltage reaches a certain
> voltage.
> Since the generator is slaved to the drive motor through the flywheel, why
> can't the experiment be mannually regulated?
> Can I just put a variac on the ac, coming from the stater coils into the
> regulator, rectify it, and then send it to the electro magnet rotor?
> Sorry for the long email
> Cheers Warren
> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
> <https://overview.mail.yahoo.com/mobile/?.src=Android>
>
>
> 
>

Hi Warren
 I think the DC flash blast needs to be a certain polarity to work...maybe that is it if lucky...
 ciaoKone

Hi DougI am by passing the regulator which is untrustworthyNow I will energize the rotor with 12 volts dc of the correct polarity.There are two separate coils in the stator, perhaps also a low voltage one to power the rotor with AC which gets rectified at the voltage regulator blockSince that voltage is, at this time, unknown, I'll put separate power to the rotor from the outside 12 volts DC for now.The two coils making up the power coils in the stator have a common grounded end, which at this time, I will float, or isolate, from the chassis, yet connect to each other That should leave three ends of unidentified potential to measure with the multimeter.I will put a belt on it and turn it at a modest speed and see if I find life.Since this Troy-bilt 2.6 kw generator is a 60 hz 120/240 volts,  some combination should be twice as many volts as another, and since the hz is unimportant at this stage, this will either provide life or not.If the generator is usable then I will proceed using it to try powering the motor, driving the flywheel, then throw the knife switches, as per rotoverter experiments to see what might happen.It is a pain in the ass to be messing around with this ac generator, but I am learning more about them.I know it has to turn 3600 rpm to get 60 hz. It worked fine in 1991. The last time I used it.Cheers Warren
Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
 
  On Fri, Mar 16, 2018 at 8:29 AM, [email protected] [EVGRAY]<[email protected]> wrote:       


Hi Warren

I think the DC flash blast needs to be a certain polarity to work...maybe that is it if lucky...

ciaoKone

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DougThe generator, I have been having voltage regulator blues with, works, and now, I think I understand how.I ran the generator at about1800 rpm as opposed to 3600, having by passed the 300 dollar dead regulator. That just takes it out of 60hz down to about 25 hz, which  is of no immediate concern as this is just a test to get life beyond a 300 dollar voltage regulator chip box.There are two grounds, and two hot leads on those two coils between ground, and one hot lead, I was getting 40 volts AC , which I was able to regulate by starting at 4 volts dc, using an adjustable 25 amp pyramid power supply, and going up to 14 volts, seeing the voltage chasing the increase to the electromagnetic rotor magnet to get a maximum of 40 volts output, using my obviously, less than capable voltage power supply.I will replace the pyramid with a Variac, and diode bridge, so I can have total voltage control to the rotating magnet's flux strength, which I have now just learned, control how much voltage the coils produce. Duh!
I have never taken apart an AC generator before, leaving them in the relm of voodoo magic, I guess.The main point, one more barrior to doing the flywheel has been dealt with.Now to select an AC motor of the correct size to drive the flywheel.
Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
 
  On Fri, Mar 16, 2018 at 3:21 PM, Warren Keillor [email protected] [EVGRAY]<[email protected]> wrote:       

Hi Doug
I am by passing the regulator which is untrustworthyNow I will energize the rotor with 12 volts dc of the correct polarity.There are two separate coils in the stator, perhaps also a low voltage one to power the rotor with AC which gets rectified at the voltage regulator blockSince that voltage is, at this time, unknown, I'll put separate power to the rotor from the outside 12 volts DC for now.The two coils making up the power coils in the stator have a common grounded end, which at this time, I will float, or isolate, from the chassis, yet connect to each other That should leave three ends of unidentified potential to measure with the multimeter.I will put a belt on it and turn it at a modest speed and see if I find life.Since this Troy-bilt 2.6 kw generator is a 60 hz 120/240 volts,  some combination should be twice as many volts as another, and since the hz is unimportant at this stage, this will either provide life or not.If the generator is usable then I will proceed using it to try powering the motor, driving the flywheel, then throw the knife switches, as per rotoverter experiments to see what might happen.It is a pain in the ass to be messing around with this ac generator, but I am learning more about them.I know it has to turn 3600 rpm to get 60 hz. It worked fine in 1991. The last time I used it.Cheers Warren
Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
 
  On Fri, Mar 16, 2018 at 8:29 AM, [email protected] [EVGRAY]<[email protected]> wrote:       


Hi Warren

I think the DC flash blast needs to be a certain polarity to work...maybe that is it if lucky...

ciaoKone

    
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