Re: Neutral Spike Re: [EVGRAY] Vehicle audio - Wikipedia

Body

Norm,

I have some hydrogen thyratrons I bought just for this purpose but they
are too big for my experiments right now, those new ones probably cost a
fortune.  Plan to try some UHF triodes first, hope to have the event
manifest in a plasma tube rather than at the triode or thyratron
itself.  Hydrogen are the fastest switching but my 4c35's require a keep
alive voltage which is pretty high, hey reminds me of page 25 right.

So yes this was my plan all along to use H thyratrons just ordered some
TGI-35/3 I couldn't pass up so might go directly to those.  Another
reason I wanted to run a triode and a cathode follower first was the
higher frequencies I can attain and experiment with.

On 11/27/2018 12:26 PM, Norman Wootan [email protected] [EVGRAY] wrote:
>  
>
> Warren,, Ha Ha, regarding the anvil, I had a 100 pound one my work
> bench but I saw some real big ones at old equipment auctions (Texas)
> in the 300-400 pound class.   I know you have seen them around the old
> forges with bellows.     Mick, I cannot stand those sub miniature
> parts either.  for I just came in to my computer to order a new FWBR
> for my 120VAC winch in the shop.  50 amp bridge and it has to come
> from China!  Take my advice for it is really worth the extra effort to
> use the hydrogen thyratrons that I pointed out (
> http://www.glvac.com/Product.asp ) and they are really like an anvil
> and not at all expensive.  On my Ferroresonance Capture Project I had
> collected a lot of caps rated to work in KV ranges.   I had a ton
> (literally) of the 600V oil filled for RV applications but as pointed
> out in a Ferroresonant state, working with transverter 3 phase, 230VAC
> you have to multiply your line in by a factor of at least 10X which is
> the self targeting stochastic state voltage excursions. A good storage
> scope would allow you to see when you happily hit on that unbalanced
> one leg condition which trips it into the stochastic state. Play the
> harmonics.
>
> On 11/27/2018 12:17 PM, Mick [email protected] [EVGRAY] wrote:
>>  
>>
>> Warren,
>>
>> Hahah ant turds...  I know these are great for assembly line, RF and
>> high speed switching allowing for the close spacing but I really
>> don't enjoy working with this technology either troubleshooting or
>> building it.  Give me DIP with pins that go through holes and need to
>> be snipped, call us old fashioned right! 
>> I want some big parts that can fit in a mans hands and can dissipate
>> heat and are easy to find when knocked off the workbench and don't
>> get lost under fingernails.
>>
>>
>> On 11/27/2018 7:10 AM, Warren Keillor [email protected]
>> [EVGRAY] wrote:
>>>  
>>>
>>> Norman
>>>
>>> Thank you for a clear understanding, and communication of arc plasma
>>> spikes, and moving us on to embracing them, rather than
>>> traditionally considering them the enemy of fragile electronic circuits.
>>> It is now about establishing a practical frequency, that is both
>>> useful yet within fairly humble resource demands.
>>> I embrace mechanical solutions, as something I can certainly
>>> achieve, given a reasonable machine shop.
>>> Oh, I can tough it out, populating a circuit, with discrete
>>> components, and even surface mount tiny ant turds, given a broad
>>> field microscope,, but it is not fun, or gratifying, like nice machinery
>>> Speaking of black smith anvils, I am on the lookout for a nice old one.
>>> Every one that I have looked at around here tends to be pricey,
>>> around$1,000 Canadian, or at least $10./ lb
>>> I have a rather nice sized forge that burns bituminous coal, and a
>>> proper space to set it up. I can do nice wrought iron work, but have
>>> always used oxyacetelene, which is too expensive, and not handy for
>>> big things.
>>> A walloping big anvil is a joy to use, turning steel into
>>> plasticine, for shaping. Too bad shipping is such a bitch, because
>>> somebody, somewhere, has a toe stubber out there.
>>> Cheers Warren
>>> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
>>> <https://go.onelink.me/107872968?pid=InProduct&c=Global_Internal_YGrowth_AndroidEmailSig__AndroidUsers&af_wl=ym&af_sub1=Internal&af_sub2=Global_YGrowth&af_sub3=EmailSignature>
>>>
>>>     On Tue, 27 Nov 2018 at 5:13 AM, Norman Wootan [email protected]
>>>     [EVGRAY]
>>>     <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>      
>>>
>>>     PLEASE, all, we are trying to enhance,purposely provoke and
>>>     attempt to capture the event, NOT mitigate or prevent it from
>>>     happening.   In all of the studies of the Ferroresonant
>>>     phenomenon, all effort is to prevent, mitigate the effects.  Why
>>>     do you insist on using solid state devices or circuits which
>>>     need protection.  Just like the Russians who still use mini
>>>     vacuum tubes in critical EMP vulnerable aviation equipment, I
>>>     would fall back to using the trusted Vacuum Thyratron 
>>>     https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thyratron 
>>>     https://dbtubes.com/en/thyratron-vacuum-tube/     This whole
>>>     Neutral Spike (EMP event) study is to prove that an extra
>>>     ordinary form of energy is manifest at the point of magnetic
>>>     flux annihilation (In the plasma of the arc).  It is called the
>>>     reconnect phase. The preponderance of the knowledge of this
>>>     subject has been the study of the magnetic ropes (plasma) of the
>>>     sun and the EMP burst from the annihilation/reconnect
>>>     phenomenon. The old saying, As above so below certainly applies
>>>     here for these plasma conditions have been accomplished in
>>>     research labs to prove out exactly what happens.  Run with what
>>>     we have learned by applying the info in your device design and
>>>     methodology.   As strong as a blacksmith anvil.
>>>
>>>     On 11/26/2018 7:21 PM, [email protected]
>>>     <mailto:[email protected]> [EVGRAY] wrote:
>>>>      
>>>>
>>>>     Hi Mick,
>>>>
>>>>     TVS diodes are rated for some max power dissipation and perhaps
>>>>     some max energy too (fusing energy I^2t). If applying more
>>>>     energy than the max i^2t rating it melts. As being fast Zener
>>>>     diodes they clamp the voltage at some level while having
>>>>     current through them at the same time which means power
>>>>     dissipation in them. If reading EMC (EMI) theory several stages
>>>>     are needed to protect for powerful EMP transients. The first
>>>>     step is a spark gap. The spark gap is followed by a varistor
>>>>     that is followed by a TVS or Zener diode. The spark gap breaks
>>>>     down to low impedance which reflects or dissipates much of the
>>>>     energy of the signal. The varistor is a solid state spark in
>>>>     some metal grains and has the same purpose as the spark gap.
>>>>     the TVS or Zener diode stage removes the rest of the energy to
>>>>     protect the sensitive electronics. It is essential to know how
>>>>     the electromagnetic radiation is transferred between the
>>>>     different stages to prevent it from reaching the sensitive
>>>>     electronics. Every current loop transmits the energy as a very
>>>>     penetrating magnetic field. That magnetic energy has to be
>>>>     dissipated or reflected which can be done with electrical
>>>>     conductive materials like iron or aluminum. The field induces
>>>>     current in the screening material which requires only
>>>>     connecting the circuit inside the screen to a single point.
>>>>     Audio guys probably have experienced this when building amplifiers.
>>>>
>>>>     A thyristor (SCR) crowbar is also a good protection. It shorts
>>>>     the pulse just like a spark gap and then blows a fuse to
>>>>     disconnect the circuit to be protected..
>>>>
>>>>     Regards
>>>>     Ole
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>     ---In [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>,
>>>>     <mkjekyll@...> <mailto:mkjekyll@...> wrote :
>>>>
>>>>     Hi Norm,
>>>>
>>>>     This paper is one of your excellent references.
>>>>
>>>>     I would like to replicate the events through the plasma that I
>>>>     achieved as it creates a huge magnetic pulse that can be
>>>>     harvested but as you say gets to kill the solid state stuff as
>>>>     if the TVS diodes were not even there. At least the
>>>>     ferroresonant amplification without the plasma gap just cooks
>>>>     the TVS diodes like popcorn even though rated at 1000 amps with
>>>>     only about 2 amp 23v input, but spared the rest, I guess it
>>>>     chose at the diodes to manifest.  Oh yeah the ferrotranny was
>>>>     connected with 30 guage wire wrap wire when the 1000 amps TVS
>>>>     diodes exploded from 46w and wire was fine. Have not built the
>>>>     tube circuits yet just working on the solid state grid control
>>>>     circuits first then plan to decouple with something similar to
>>>>     cascode so hopefully the superfast gate driver does not cook. 
>>>>
>>>>     Not sure if Ole's snubber network would stop the event but have
>>>>     the feeling so since caps will suppress the rise time and kill
>>>>     ringing, but have not tried so can't say.  Seems to me the
>>>>     event is created right at the switch and the rise in voltage is
>>>>     like the inertia x acceleration before the end of a whip cracks
>>>>     and necessary. 
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>     "Why does death need time?  Death needs time for what it kills
>>>>     to grow in."
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>     On 11/26/2018 4:44 AM, Norman Wootan nwootan@...
>>>>     <mailto:nwootan@...> [EVGRAY] wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>>         Precisely, Bob Paddock.  Please read this document to
>>>>>         understand that a local plasma event must occur (Arc in
>>>>>         the gap) for the manifestation of this energy. Please
>>>>>         read:  
>>>>>         http://www-brs.ub.ruhr-uni-bochum.de/netahtml/HSS/Diss/TassiEmanuele/diss.pdf
>>>>>
>>>>>         On 11/25/2018 7:36 PM, Bob Paddock bob.paddock@...
>>>>>         <mailto:bob.paddock@...> [EVGRAY] wrote:
>>>>>>          
>>>>>>
>>>>>>         > Why not replace the relay with a switching transistor.
>>>>>>         Mechanical switches wear fast compared to a semiconductor
>>>>>>         switch.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>         What if the Arc/Spark is part of the actual process in
>>>>>>         getting more energy?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>         Every O/U thing I've ever though worked usually had a
>>>>>>         Plasm or Arc/Spark.
>>>>>>         Usually not intentionally and the designer always wanted
>>>>>>         to get rid of it.
>>>>>>
>