Re: [EVGRAY] Neutral spike

Database ID: 110701
2018-11-22T08:15:49+00:00

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yes XLR is a musicians best friend.iv been a audio fanatic forever!

    On Wednesday, November 21, 2018, 10:28:17 PM CST, Mick [email protected] [EVGRAY] <[email protected]> wrote:  
 
     
 

Dave,
 
Cables do make a big diff but anyone who spends more than a few hundred has more money than brains, silver sounds the best and teflon makes great insulation.  If you have great components simply buy some .999 silver wire for jewelry and make your own cables.  Single strand the smaller OD the better.
 
Gold is only used on connectors because it does not oxidize, copper is a better connector.  The rhodium often used for the plating process sounds not so nice.  Silver connectors are best and silver oxide is still highly conductive.  Silver is only a problem in polluted areas with high amounts of sulfur dioxide mixing with oxygen and creating a sulfide, the silver sulfide does not conduct well. 
 
 
Transformers and audio are a whole another science and properly designed ones like Jensen or Llundahl are extremely transparent and much better than differential op amps for galvanic isolation on balanced lines.
 
I have little respect for most of the high end gear and cables sold to audiophools.
 
Yes everyone have a good holiday season!!!
 
 On 11/21/2018 7:57 PM, Dave Muckerman [email protected] [EVGRAY] wrote:
  
     Have anyone seen the youtube posters boasting about 1,700 dollars audiophile patch cables they claim that sound so great? I can't see needing them after spending all the money on the other fine components. 
  Does it have impedance variations? does it look sound? that's all one needs. Ferrites and shielded cables and gold are all one needs!  silver for RF helps too.
  
  If you wanna test a transformer run audio through it to speakers and listen to the crossover and un-linearness. 
  side note: Remember the Fogal transistor??? Claims of FTL and holographic sound images. Place a ceramic cap. across the junction and have many of same in parallel.
  
  
      On Saturday, November 3, 2018, 7:55:51 PM CDT, Mick [email protected] [EVGRAY] <[email protected]> wrote:  
  
          
 
 
Norm,
 
The interconnects used for home audio should be illegal for bad sound, but even a properly designed mic cable with an XLR on each end with a hot a cold and a shield one will notice only on female side the shield connects to the chassis of the connector.  It is a single shield run on #1 to both sides though as the connections are designed balanced for just the reason  you mentioned.
 
 
XLR's are the best connector for long run connections but I make my own cable with silver plated aircraft cable with teflon insulation, a pain to work with but sound is great.
 
For short single ended runs the RCA end sucks and it should have been BNC or the extra small microwave connectors that look like mini BNC's  If one removes the RCA connectors and replaces with BNC and high quality aircraft cable and the rest of the  gear is good enough one will notice the difference.  Networking cable Cat 5 or 6 can also sound great as speaker cable.
 
The story gets worse though as the old tube guitar amp had a switch that would toggle chassis ground between either  connector on the power connection for the purpose of preventing ground loops when some live show venue had the outlets wired with hot and neutral reversed.  Well when that guitarist also happens to be a vocalist and touched a mic stand with the ground switched wrong it was not pretty if the shield was run to both chassis of the connectors.  This was an old soundman trick to get back at the rude ego asshole guitar players using the special fully  grounded mic cable.  I am sure some people died from this prank where 220 was used.
 
 
  On 11/3/2018 4:46 PM, Norman Wootan [email protected] [EVGRAY] wrote: 
  
    
 
 
Mick!  Just had to laugh at your remark about floating grounds in the recording studio!  Ha! Ha!  Way back when I was learning about fine audio, I ran a shielded line level  audio cable to hook two sound systems together, about 100 ft run.  When I turned on the systems and selected line in on the 2nd system, I had the prettiest motor boat you ever heard!  Lol  Yep! I had grounded both ends of a shielded cable and got a good example of a  ground loop!
 
 
 On 11/3/2018 4:54 PM, Mick [email protected] [EVGRAY] wrote:
  
    
 
 
Norm,
 
Thanks for that.
 
 
I love Mr Calrsons lab, I could happily live there for quite awhile with all that awesome  vintage gear.  I have seen isolation transformers wired like that and it's so insane but  I am used to testing all the grounding points.  When building a recording studio we have to float all the grounds so they  are single point at the service panel and not looped anywhere else.  Often they are lifted at the outlet j-box due to the lack of control in a prewired  building.  Ironically we also used to use autoformers for all of the light dimmers to prevent  noise, so we often referred to the variacs as light dimmers.
 
I still don't completely trust a scope on an isolation transformer even if the ground  is properly isolated/ lifted due to the somewhat rare magnetic emp events we are talking about like when I kicked off all my ground faults in the house  through one.
 
 
 On 11/3/2018 2:03 PM, Norman Wootan [email protected] [EVGRAY] wrote:
  
    
 
 
Mick! Here is a helpful video regarding scopes and isolation transformers on  the test bench!
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBsQ3sZ45Fk&feature=youtu.be
 
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaELqAo4kkQ
 
 
 On 11/3/2018 12:36 PM, Mick [email protected] [EVGRAY] wrote:
  
    
 
 
Norm,
 
Thanks for the nudge in the right direction.  Now the process demands repeating with a totally  isolated battery source configured the same way.   Funny how I was concentrating on isolating and connecting  saturated inductive charge without the first magnetic variable taken into account.
 
 
I have had no problem creating the event with my grid power source and  even warned Sven that an isolation transformer will not always protect his scope when messing around with this  energy.  My scope probe sitting on a bench shot me in the leg when I  walked by when performing the experiments from my  bench supply.  The bench supply has an isolation transformer of sorts.  Being it is torroidal there is more inter-winding capacitive  coupling and mutual inductance than with the  proper EI transformer though there is at least the electrostatic shield  and galvanic isolation.
 
 
Thanks for that reference. the Brit guy was funny, although I'm  very familiar with iso transformers in audio work used for galvanic isolation and balancing to eliminate common mode  noise. 
 
 
 On 11/3/2018 4:42 AM, Norman Wootan [email protected] [EVGRAY] wrote:
  
    
 
 
Mick!     Your DUH reference is funny!   To understand Isolation, best to  study and understand the Isolation Transformer.   The super high quality ones are built to  eliminate noise and DC components that effect sensitive  instruments like EEG and EKG instruments.  This will give you an idea as to construction and  purpose:: 
 
 
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isolation_transformer
 
A little tutorial as to how they work!
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfzy5IQMzyc&feature=youtu.be
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14kPQif9P7c&feature=youtu.be
 
https://toroid.com/Products/Medical-Isolation-Transformers
 
The 230VAC, 5 HP locked rotor experiment was an  example of electrically isolated electrical  circuitry when mains contactor was opened  since there was no neutral involve. There is magnetic  and capacitive coup[ling only   The dielectric insulation was not  compromised therefore no electrical  connection.  The Chinese motor experiment was  isolated, (electrically) when the reversing action  was in transient. (Floating neutral) since there is a line neutral in the 120VAC input.
 
 
 On 11/2/2018 2:44 PM, Mick [email protected] [EVGRAY] wrote:
  
    
Norm,
 
 Since you have performed mass  research on this event would you concur
 with my long distance  observation that the event is not only due to
 charge isolation but inclusive of  a magnetic connection from source in
 addition to the saturated and  lifted inductive load?
 
 Your bell buzzer and bell  transformer acting as an isolation  transformer.
 
 Both motor experiments, the  small Emerson type and the HVAC unit with
 only two hot's no neutral, must  have been powered by an isolation
 transformer of some type also  such as the utility step down for the
 neighborhood or dedicated delta  or wye for commercial or even acted as
 such from the dual windings of  the HVAC motor.
 
 Have you reliably  produced the NS from any type of isolated battery
 system, or in all such cases  was there a magnetic connection to an  earth
 bonding in another spot?
 
 My thoughts being one side  of a transformer acting as a source is
 grounded and the secondary side  isolated so that the only conceivable
 ground bonding on the sink  might be considered as magnetic aside  from
 the bonded motor frame or what  not producing the reconnection.
 
 I may be pissing up a rope  notwithstanding the NS seems to be predicated
 on a B field connection  somewhere in the source feed though the  neutral
 is isolated electrically.
 
 Perhaps this is a simple "Duh"  to you that you had already figured out
 assuming everyone else at  least this smart.  Either way it does create
 an interesting position in  which to view 3 phase and transformers  with
 an extra resonant  winding.
 
 By the way, ironic your  implication that the large medical  isolation
 transformers create a  heretofore unknown vector of extreme  danger.
 
 Mick
 
 
  
 
  
 
  
 
  
 
  
 
  
  
          
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Subject Re: [EVGRAY] Neutral spike
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