Re: [EVGRAY] Re: Neutral spike

Database ID: 110505
2018-11-16T09:49:46-08:00

← View thread

Message-ID
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>

Body

Ole,

So if the cap is disconnected at the even multiple harmonic of the
resonant root frequency synchronized at the proper 1/2 or 1/4 cycle it
is no longer cancelled but carries a charge correct?

On 11/16/2018 9:06 AM, [email protected] [EVGRAY] wrote:
>  
>
> Hi Mick,
>
> At resonance (in LC-tank) the capacitive impedance (imaginary part)
> cancels the inductive impedance (imaginary part) leaving only the
> resistance of the LC-tank circuit. The reactance of a capacitor is
> negative while the reactance of an inductor is positive. At resonance
> they are equal in magnitude but of opposite sign which cancel them out.
>
> LC-tank: https://wiki2.org/en/LC_circuit
> Reactance: https://wiki2.org/en/Electrical_reactance
>
> Regards
> Ole
>
>
> ---In [email protected], <mkjekyll@...> wrote :
>
> Ole,
>
> I have had caps charge much faster in an LC tank than otherwise, but
> it could also have to do with noise in the core material as I was no
> using an air inductor.
>
>
> On 11/16/2018 1:19 AM, onielsen@... <mailto:onielsen@...> [EVGRAY] wrote:
>
>>      
>>
>>     Hi Mick,
>>
>>     "If a reactive LC tank capacitor is then disconnected from the
>>     reactive source then discharged to a resistive load then
>>     reconnected energized back to the standing wave modality
>>     recharged disconnected discharged etc.  If the reactive energy is
>>     harvested in this manner are you claiming the same losses will
>>     occur as power factor correcting the reactive back into real power?"
>>
>>     Yes that's correct.
>>
>>     Common power factor correction in AC is for eliminating the
>>     reactive power that doesn't do any work but just heats the wires
>>     between the power plant and the reactive load. This is expensive
>>     for the owners of the power transmission lines and thus should be
>>     avoided. First storing the energy in a capacitor (or inductor or
>>     battery) and then dumping it to an active load will still make
>>     the power go in just one direction even though it happens in
>>     pulses. The energy is then moving from the source to the load.
>>     Reactive power has the energy moving to and from the load and
>>     power source. The power moving between the capacitor and inductor
>>     in an LC-tank is pure reactive except for the loss because of the
>>     parasitic resistance in the components and wires.
>>
>>     Regards
>>     Ole
>>
>>
>>     ---In [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>,
>>     <mkjekyll@...> <mailto:mkjekyll@...> wrote :
>>
>>     Ole,
>>
>>     Disregarding the issue at hand with the patent terminology and
>>     not concerning ourselves with the patent just a very high Q tank.
>>
>>     If a reactive LC tank capacitor is then disconnected from the
>>     reactive source then discharged to a resistive load then
>>     reconnected energized back to the standing wave modality
>>     recharged disconnected discharged etc.  If the reactive energy is
>>     harvested in this manner are you claiming the same losses will
>>     occur as power factor correcting the reactive back into real power?
>>
>>
>>
>>     On 11/15/2018 5:36 PM, onielsen@... <mailto:onielsen@...>
>>     [EVGRAY] wrote
>>
>>>          
>>>
>>>         I have only read to the following paragraph cited below. I
>>>         wonder if the applicant knows about what he is writing.
>>>
>>>         Citing paragraph 106 of the patent application
>>>         (https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/53/7d/29/f7b4bd0194992d/US20070296373A1.pdf):
>>>         "[0106] There is voltage across the inductor connected in
>>>         series to the capacitor and there is voltage across the
>>>         inductor connected in parallel to the capacitor. Since
>>>         Power=voltage×current, a single power input produces two
>>>         branches of electromagnetic power output, increasing the
>>>         power output. In the alternative, the present disclosure may
>>>         have one electromagnetic power output with less energy input."
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>         It isn't as simple as this. If using an oscilloscope for
>>>         measuring the current and voltage it will show some phase
>>>         displacement between the current and voltage which means
>>>         reactive power. Look at the following small videos to see
>>>         how one can be misled if not knowing how the phase between
>>>         the current and voltage is: Only the the resistive part
>>>         consumes (transforms) energy like R in figure 8.
>>>
>>>         0:42
>>>         <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJEZMCCBV3U>
>>>
>>>
>>>               Overunity Device Cop 2,5 ? explanation part 3.
>>>               <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJEZMCCBV3U>
>>>
>>>         9.5K views5 years ago
>>>         1:01
>>>         <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jamj3-2w0eE>
>>>
>>>
>>>               Overunity Device Cop 2,5 ? explanation part 2.
>>>               <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jamj3-2w0eE>
>>>
>>>         10K views5 years ago
>>>         1:00
>>>         <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_E0ck3v40Y>
>>>         <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_E0ck3v40Y>
>>>
>>>
>>>               Overunity Device Cop 2,5 ? part 1. but,
>>>               <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_E0ck3v40Y>
>>>
>>>         8K views5 years ago
>>>
>>>         The numbers without the phase shift looks like overunity
>>>         which isn't the case when taking into account the phase
>>>         shift. Only real power is useful in doing work. Reactive
>>>         power doesn't do work except for the small active part
>>>         heating the the wires and other components because of their
>>>         parasitic resistance. This part caused by current doing work
>>>         against the resistance is active power and not actually
>>>         reactive power. This is why the power distributing companies
>>>         may charge costumers for having high reactive power going
>>>         through their cables which heats the power lines without
>>>         transferring active power to their costumers. It's just pure
>>>         loss because the wires have resistance. Resistance converts
>>>         electric power into heat.
>>>
>>>         Just looked at the figures and found the description to
>>>         figure 46:
>>>         "[0149]FIG. 46 illustrates an embodiment of the present
>>>         disclosure that conserves light bulb energy. In a test
>>>         conducted, on Nov. 16, 1998, a light bulb was installed
>>>         according to the schematic disclosed in FIG. 46 and is still
>>>         running seven years later.
>>>
>>>         [0150]Since Apparent Power (VA)=Current (A)×Voltage (V), the
>>>         calculations below illustrate energy conservation for a 60 W
>>>         light bulb. The voltage applied at the power input is 115 V.
>>>         The apparent power for the Power Input Line (Line PIN) is
>>>         measured at 126.5 VA. The apparent power measured for the
>>>         shed motor fan is 126.5 VA and the apparent power measured
>>>         for the light bulb is 65 VA. Therefore, 126 VA is measured
>>>         at the input and a total of 191.5 VA is measured at the
>>>         output, indicating an approximately 1.5 gain. Calculations
>>>         are also shown for the energy savings for a 75W Bulb."
>>>
>>>         It is the apparent power that is increased. The apparent
>>>         power is the vector sum of the real power and the reactive
>>>         power which makes it always greater than or equal to the
>>>         real (or active or true) power.
>>>
>>>
>>>         Source with description at:
>>>         https://www.allaboutcircuits.com/textbook/alternating-current/chpt-11/true-reactive-and-apparent-power/
>>>
>>>
>>>         (Message over 64 KB, truncated)
>>
>

References

<[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
<[email protected]>

Headers

Return-Path <[email protected]>
X-Sender [email protected]
X-Apparently-To [email protected]
X-Received (qmail 11587 invoked by uid 102); 16 Nov 2018 17:49:57 -0000
X-Received from unknown (HELO mtaq6.grp.bf1.yahoo.com) (10.198.29.79) by m3.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Nov 2018 17:49:57 -0000
X-Received (qmail 15986 invoked from network); 16 Nov 2018 17:49:56 -0000
X-Received from unknown (HELO mta4003.groups.mail.ne1.yahoo.com) (10.221.10.34) by mtaq6.grp.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Nov 2018 17:49:56 -0000
X-Original-Return-Path <[email protected]>
X-Received-SPF pass (domain of gmail.com designates 209.85.215.179 as permitted sender)
X-YMailISG 2eGt57IWLDuDdODR9UrO0nq5zM7N6hQAF52T1rWaglD47xDF WRY0iRE9M4_wzxhuFxo29fUIQyMs8V7u.lpEBWY2BdviJcLpCLFccfNsuOD2 RiWzqtDi2W8CBxBSxEQoFHkBS_3BLFmwFo_4t2g3B6RfbfesupXTeXOZjXT1 ebok2PJVkvi2GQr4L9thdXCCn_bEo55ocx88wa4bnLAc4fPEYY3wMcmv6l54 dX8H5yxMdoVAa.jG9JiWQBEpVFbcjLYMKA40I.PUMGWrtxjIFe6dLT7uMqBR pLQpFXbO80Ju7Sp6EsyN0jecr3iG0LsBwf.GC6VNzMcwBMLin4hEMQx0Z_TN 76Jts_8R.uH2K3yDr.IVesKHZUXAcKB6DAMNT_4BW5zjjH2QtKIF3Q36yEyH VslyJdgu..q3RaOFhHnvwM0YSoChvq02Z8B.RApn7Q1CvIs_zQSeMYyVLkDk oNVtwmsYf_9BRa_gexmLtfAsA2IRlXEcxF_zZHyuT9f2sJpsLHWcwq4T.WTy eUoGAQerTU0a8F8ipQFc0bx_d5L8QxcZ7OixNotcn1J4zDaX9tcNRn0pGjPb mSjsjtt8nmadDwoRXE4f7xsdZ1yi8pllw1oaoMv7ej6.lSTBqn2BbyedxvTd H.LsWZKRWxlCWAtvpp9WB0dCjYGKHFM_XdneKl_aC05egCT3DTdpI_qVPKbj u_STA7Pvoykb4p1tP0GEMIJTwZUQi7fN1uSb55ukTwwUB8r633ZUSCRg56NC LfYbZwjnRMHvxDi_ULovcLK9n7Z.5bk9gvNFbyh2DMKrDSK9g5U4RG5pm5wx hKJQP_.K9v51zMed1Z.kncAvhp0sjQR6vUuTYPMzfjbf1n.deBHfGQvtC2Mb F5J2_WxW32ZMaPmg.68XiOFz3vu2wb2oYrZrpZNTXpcDt9mx4uoXJ7ew_PeI _z0sjOzGFIIfSQaQxi7ZCiAXVWjWgSPgCYwm3_PJcklTXYo8NJcwcPwtQ9bG aDOniBLCjCHEKp6NmPoQZV_vCnwt.JtyL.2.hTQv60oNUtH1f8Ep7ftrKhZw sz713yA5F82G_Pr5xu5f7Tclkk7rpKyQPlu2tEabHlmFJzMLq7AAnGoCbTtB 3IRigqXfBZtxi2hm7w7hAl6AX9HGXxo37gplFXSseah0xKRh0eOcbadyF9LZ aIsnZEZ5VxHFwC1XTrdco5eBshmoEyB.z598ocjZ1Yzm7u6yI581YWF2y3AC cys1kdDN0vYY7iEWMdLGA3MWYm6TToDNmvEf3omXthflFdYKxYpJrMz5tWIT rOYHfZmu2_jjD9XVh.NyWzd9l2YX.ZDy81ZFscp0CdzeWaPq0BiwMcVUi63z _fPQb7faL6g_rBBbz8Ko2bYlBAw9LMn9RwlgAp1sKJWcwE9w4LQUXI8Mi3m2 0Golh0Rjewy.M2rGJ00p3RGZPuRZYi56dtYod2KlHUFLC7g_6BBHYCatg_zI BQeG.TlvvHzEf54OHHFQFChmZtPhn490RncUV9WdtCd8rB7jJJCwXxdGT1xk BAjGyMJGr5OQvQ--
Authentication-Results mta4003.groups.mail.ne1.yahoo.com from=gmail.com; domainkeys=neutral (no sig); from=gmail.com; dkim=pass (ok)
X-Received from 127.0.0.1 (EHLO mail-pg1-f179.google.com) (209.85.215.179) by mta4003.groups.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with SMTPS; Fri, 16 Nov 2018 17:49:56 +0000
X-Received by mail-pg1-f179.google.com with SMTP id 80so10911656pge.4 for <[email protected]>; Fri, 16 Nov 2018 09:49:55 -0800 (PST)
X-Google-DKIM-Signature v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:openpgp:autocrypt :message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to :content-language; bh=6xO0ltqQgvogigjkDMFRqBGejtjIwyIq4OXEdRSjqJw=; b=OQg9ZgUI2bKf/VPW/LDY6u0IZM5NPwmL2nbVRkXbrKfLET3ZhZPsvC8yhRHLUbHU4z px9y1YCSlYhieh48LBmvdWCbgYTr1WsmoNz4VlbqtB2X7ru06Df/MXtiPaW5XblaUOvK M58va5y1kSl7pWT6+zFDNskXRcz1ci0n/ICamZMwuPtJfEtO2Q1sJuMP4+O/LdKH5d6g vW5BvZfkSdWbCGfa742FfFCSYHqrDDuonpNbRye4YfCUpcZYS6fm1M8u1C+zrBbDUHmG NKswzKQPmdvaQXw8+APoKoPf4045f5Kwtvd/1yTIanbvFiwbUhzLeytIf8xpC9qCD6oD rfxw==
X-Gm-Message-State AGRZ1gLKjK/Te+RtQ2GmrlEvukcV47II6AS15C3rcaduisXpJ8Dg9p+1 N70iVxj/CBdvL5ENpHqtxTgt+4Ju
X-Google-Smtp-Source AJdET5d3NLzFES5TBts+lcTfpV/32xwlXeq9MjeY5RzRQbJH/5HI6sjFJd8cRA7WYUekLLkBKw0OKw==
X-Received by 2002:a63:8ac4:: with SMTP id y187mr10826390pgd.446.1542390594046; Fri, 16 Nov 2018 09:49:54 -0800 (PST)
X-Original-Return-Path <[email protected]>
X-Received from [192.168.10.185] ([162.244.37.15]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id j12-v6sm34704894pfi.61.2018.11.16.09.49.52 for <[email protected]> (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 16 Nov 2018 09:49:53 -0800 (PST)
To [email protected]
References <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
Openpgp preference=signencrypt
Autocrypt [email protected]; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= xsFNBFqnHl4BEAC2D/ejqMx87dzt7D1mXRlsoyaj15ZgiSeEW8avDH7iRxWF/xagNJw/C1BI 8WT4FMRFhDS9wFmTwJUhT09W4Rq2PwjTtWcUSUeMu4m3hvh70Tw4du+bpMKMoG56uo1DHlD3 A0/HYsVArjsf3wsae2ukhz6HjQGqLnGvVCUoKSuEG8nEUS15yWZMyoTCrBtU5cko+3O9Cm+L 4vL/K7GSBgwzErrXJOEBFraYB97Hjw43VaWEJ3Xft8SElz53+rRhVw0FgTNU4pKD5tzdy4MT dV7+N0OayO+jiMscBFA4SCFXFQFHC4SzMIK8TqA+pK2P6AihipgtOdSzNTBzDcCXrK7p40vR is+5l9TBc4AIgQhm4hA5mR3d3Ym07FzDoXxiZmZPnaoTY6sNj9u7WiYcJcQ5v2KV11jLvoiU CCzkjQLKqAJ3sYtMDNWnB5eNOd4NjXOVnorEgDmXyN1iT5XmtMSFJp0CwjhYmC2Xbeo85hWE 4tR5SJKksYa9szYTFDoYQ9S3Q96vxl8t2Y6Sb79VZXNzvd5uvwzXEhTBZAWH8HX2zLKS61Cj PDxNTWOrsEuUCLEEcNarUF4qNZUQY0TWzsntve6Evt9ncwNSnCfaGHij0/PWxk17wIetu/63 yoZKIHQnsitgCtAzU/lovMwz5eFtPCK/snvxWYOivHvhe9t9NQARAQABzRlNaWNrIDxta2pl a3lsbEBnbWFpbC5jb20+wsGUBBMBCAA+FiEEp76joP5XM22PiDq+OSrR4ccf/XkFAlqnHl4C GyMFCQlmAYAFCwkIBwIGFQoJCAsCBBYCAwECHgECF4AACgkQOSrR4ccf/XnJ1w//ZLePZRYc Nb7JgGobebLoxGeJvsLK01huCqs4OQm58HGH7qCaH019uMAciX72eEytgtCJk4OlZQDnX8fS Wpbhue6dGL3DWS1dSxzFP0iSqoRw/Xzq0KU0eQmofZR+Wy+jGblC3qUfp4HcfvRwPHMdhQpP fjcp4IsrN0KlUTZ2MoXgFp4H4Ztz3pST8fjsuZGhk/Jyc7/miJJVbd9W11MuIaNQ4Pp9FAC9 d1EN9jEiQlNHkPgpyEPEoBxqOD595pg858j63Dd+UJ6wm2D4oRnAisOx7Ytka/veimgfal1u WhKk81KZg1NT4e68VjnP0CUVScIK75D65BuWJaPp1yEzLX+PX/2YHZvdsNzyRN7rV4JCj0AC 90DL1Xf+ZOc4WhGVBxKDi7xUQWdhLatWhynRDKUeTgE3iKoyO5rAUBdSnYIWezpks/+FHSe8 oJfCnb5bwhjuvh2IgWjI+9pbo2sygYaqIj8g6aCUBRtBKLtGZuBMDYQ0vS/y9CJ5Drc/S7oD EdZwedRKflLpLR5Wwx4lnKXprYj3LD6ktikKcJejvJ8fE0KcOz3WJ9ygeTXktkUuUAhoyzGn Ugur6mCNfIGLNXj4tQYYtGtQm1d2G/c3K1ULh3lAQ0yWKILo1LFxF4x6rAnDG88TNnB342He rkoDYY5o15emK/fxKY5k84jGFsfOwU0EWqceXgEQALaewIOOSsgVQDqiojZVknrBkThxZ+UF hDxT1QGl+NK3MhtZ00XME0p4yjkIs8jO6+zRBQDCJLMhYHtoA7gbUlH5RyVVJRqH/swmbbFZ XQr8P5B/tZwtUH9zDbgPjk8zKN6trCgKbVW0FXOyBzTeLgoOWYjLvyXCUot5o2TQu9Vb0xAE QIXp7Xgh3FnW7ZfQPA/BtyaCDpWqX6cFzHhWpF3YY4iUF0APjFvXwRXspH9vnNj+qx/oUb5I uIf18MmGQye9h6zqItOC9qzDRLsKU4OVH3Ghqiu+P+UqxB7k5Tl9MbVWo9UUy9GMTyom64f9 UKQlvZAGnadldYp9vlF6b+dFDQQatJ3k6Bf1h6Ha82xFfvMwPR0VWiO0apKWRTlcRtVTDoQ6 5NFjcORngpj8C82ooLJ7/beYYPHL/3ke3Fp3hXWD32E5MMCun1EEVn/5dGwnLqvfwGh7sa49 JZDhq3CsTzZrUBZOrN2+JPB8WBeEW8OqZnwWqx3AU94MKEjkQCaxBYhTVzgPBfrHYxlSOtVZ 0dEY4AugklDiwYbTSHrlnXLWUaLPy79ChU4jx36ZqYlcGcLPBmDPKlfglr3EWB45MGffspBE g1B3qBzWGbxOb2HuNK9EUcB26nv1jvwkwdeaX32HDxnFD390uwZo1fkUWli/08z7SCvDEl/g Q2dXABEBAAHCwXwEGAEIACYWIQSnvqOg/lczbY+IOr45KtHhxx/9eQUCWqceXgIbDAUJCWYB gAAKCRA5KtHhxx/9eSMsEACLNZSE9Jenpz5yg1o3mNNeXmI4p2YzTz8KHkJuwWtFIiuGZi7I fUQZZHrRVQ8tpkJnmGrt2Cbu6y764xpaKwUNC6Z9eC41NKq/OdtE/6XwEfDrr6fnxYvUCcwF O26HPG44KtdgyBCUMO9iKtyifTpByK6X5u2Vq/gVAyf2cTiHAitOyD1Y6pPyRzdQE3legOr9 K3OguAWFd4TZ9TmL2WTyr06CcFJCAlmcX65PhcIxaVjjDQphQnL5KopumuWoZfl67fEb4vsI 320ut2HfFN9GzRlA2VnEHV/A2pu9wtSF/65wGHYKYNIcZxw0Xs0m6UZcT62nQEStV5lrBwGY CM43dZTkR/Vd9BC2VFLxdVLijNqI7FwsMErWKYvBsUt2DLHhIwAkows08yNCy7HE9Kfzl9bx wjDZhQJ9IVbnEvVsgo+3z1uS7cEYfMArUfPgy/i1eh56q0hFSZH0U3JqUBGdsdbMN8NKW3LR ZkjIuKCSu30AnvxJQZ+jd7kRb5NDCObahww4ylNnkOKP9C3LceWgxTchJh551yRNnxaO3H9q fXXrCfi0Rg/ttL9XRMhx0xTO3oyLasQrE/l/PXN8fExlCHOjUJ9pBcJwSCQvHn9QlJ8GjuJl 9Zi9raYZNZZbbVCaDwxAbhhQ5Q2xfTxE2k7QzVHCJ5fabGJ8Dcm/3Eny1g==
Message-ID <[email protected]>
Date Fri, 16 Nov 2018 09:49:46 -0800
User-Agent Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.3; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.3.0
MIME-Version 1.0
In-Reply-To <[email protected]>
Content-Type multipart/alternative; boundary="------------E83F7749E7EA96D66238C939"
Content-Language en-US
X-Originating-IP 10.221.10.34
Subject Re: [EVGRAY] Re: Neutral spike
X-Yahoo-Group-Post member; u=367442549; y=WvctVNmFTZr_swXSn-LHX1n3zFWOFr6lG9tgZsXD_FZPn0o
X-Yahoo-Profile mkjekyll
From Mick <[email protected]>