Re: [EVGRAY] Neutral spike

Database ID: 110313
2018-11-04T13:24:38+00:00

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Body

yep ! ELF wave  intrusion in ground potential sucks feces big time !

had ruined million dollar set ups ! ....




 

---In [email protected], <nwootan@...> wrote :

 Mick!  Just had to laugh at your remark about floating grounds in the recording studio!  Ha! Ha!  Way back when I was learning about fine audio, I ran a shielded line level audio cable to hook two sound systems together, about 100 ft run.  When I turned on the systems and selected line in on the 2nd system, I had the prettiest motor boat you ever heard!  Lol  Yep! I had grounded both ends of a shielded cable and got a good example of a ground loop!

 
 On 11/3/2018 4:54 PM, Mick mkjekyll@... mailto:mkjekyll@... [EVGRAY] wrote:

   
 Norm,
 Thanks for that.

 I love Mr Calrsons lab, I could happily live there for quite awhile with all that awesome vintage gear.  I have seen isolation transformers wired like that and it's so insane but I am used to testing all the grounding points.  When building a recording studio we have to float all the grounds so they are single point at the service panel and not looped anywhere else.  Often they are lifted at the outlet j-box due to the lack of control in a prewired building.  Ironically we also used to use autoformers for all of the light dimmers to prevent noise, so we often referred to the variacs as light dimmers.
 I still don't completely trust a scope on an isolation transformer even if the ground is properly isolated/ lifted due to the somewhat rare magnetic emp events we are talking about like when I kicked off all my ground faults in the house through one.

 
 On 11/3/2018 2:03 PM, Norman Wootan nwootan@... mailto:nwootan@... [EVGRAY] wrote:

   
 Mick! Here is a helpful video regarding scopes and isolation transformers on the test bench!
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBsQ3sZ45Fk&feature=youtu.be https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBsQ3sZ45Fk&feature=youtu.be

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaELqAo4kkQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaELqAo4kkQ

 
 On 11/3/2018 12:36 PM, Mick mkjekyll@... mailto:mkjekyll@... [EVGRAY] wrote:

   
 Norm,
 Thanks for the nudge in the right direction.  Now the process demands repeating with a totally isolated battery source configured the same way.   Funny how I was concentrating on isolating and connecting saturated inductive charge without the first magnetic variable taken into account.

 I have had no problem creating the event with my grid power source and even warned Sven that an isolation transformer will not always protect his scope when messing around with this energy.  My scope probe sitting on a bench shot me in the leg when I walked by when performing the experiments from my bench supply.  The bench supply has an isolation transformer of sorts. Being it is torroidal there is more inter-winding capacitive coupling and mutual inductance than with the proper EI transformer though there is at least the electrostatic shield and galvanic isolation.

 Thanks for that reference. the Brit guy was funny, although I'm very familiar with iso transformers in audio work used for galvanic isolation and balancing to eliminate common mode noise. 

 
 On 11/3/2018 4:42 AM, Norman Wootan nwootan@... mailto:nwootan@... [EVGRAY] wrote:

   
 Mick!     Your DUH reference is funny!   To understand Isolation, best to study and understand the Isolation Transformer.   The super high quality ones are built to eliminate noise and DC components that effect sensitive instruments like EEG and EKG instruments. This will give you an idea as to construction and purpose:: 

 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isolation_transformer https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isolation_transformer
 A little tutorial as to how they work!
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfzy5IQMzyc&feature=youtu.be https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfzy5IQMzyc&feature=youtu.be
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14kPQif9P7c&feature=youtu.be https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14kPQif9P7c&feature=youtu.be
 https://toroid.com/Products/Medical-Isolation-Transformers https://toroid.com/Products/Medical-Isolation-Transformers
 The 230VAC, 5 HP locked rotor experiment was an example of electrically isolated electrical circuitry when mains contactor was opened since there was no neutral involve. There is magnetic and capacitive coup[ling only   The dielectric insulation was not compromised therefore no electrical connection.  The Chinese motor experiment was isolated, (electrically) when the reversing action was in transient. (Floating neutral) since there is a line neutral in the 120VAC input.

 
 On 11/2/2018 2:44 PM, Mick mkjekyll@... mailto:mkjekyll@... [EVGRAY] wrote:

   Norm,
 
 Since you have performed mass research on this event would you concur
 with my long distance observation that the event is not only due to
 charge isolation but inclusive of a magnetic connection from source in
 addition to the saturated and lifted inductive load?
 
 Your bell buzzer and bell transformer acting as an isolation transformer.
 
 Both motor experiments, the small Emerson type and the HVAC unit with
 only two hot's no neutral, must have been powered by an isolation
 transformer of some type also such as the utility step down for the
 neighborhood or dedicated delta or wye for commercial or even acted as
 such from the dual windings of the HVAC motor.
 
 Have you reliably produced the NS from any type of isolated battery
 system, or in all such cases was there a magnetic connection to an earth
 bonding in another spot?
 
 My thoughts being one side of a transformer acting as a source is
 grounded and the secondary side isolated so that the only conceivable
 ground bonding on the sink might be considered as magnetic aside from
 the bonded motor frame or what not producing the reconnection.
 
 I may be pissing up a rope notwithstanding the NS seems to be predicated
 on a B field connection somewhere in the source feed though the neutral
 is isolated electrically.
 
 Perhaps this is a simple "Duh" to you that you had already figured out
 assuming everyone else at least this smart.  Either way it does create
 an interesting position in which to view 3 phase and transformers with
 an extra resonant winding.
 
 By the way, ironic your implication that the large medical isolation
 transformers create a heretofore unknown vector of extreme danger.
 
 Mick

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