Re: [EVGRAY] Neutral spike

Database ID: 110306
2018-11-03T18:46:06-05:00
Norman Wootan <[email protected]>

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Mick!  Just had to laugh at your remark about floating grounds in the 
recording studio!  Ha! Ha!  Way back when I was learning about fine 
audio, I ran a shielded line level audio cable to hook two sound systems 
together, about 100 ft run.  When I turned on the systems and selected 
line in on the 2nd system, I had the prettiest motor boat you ever 
heard!  Lol  Yep! I had grounded both ends of a shielded cable and got a 
good example of a ground loop!


On 11/3/2018 4:54 PM, Mick [email protected] [EVGRAY] wrote:
>
> Norm,
>
> Thanks for that.
>
> I love Mr Calrsons lab, I could happily live there for quite awhile 
> with all that awesome vintage gear.  I have seen isolation 
> transformers wired like that and it's so insane but I am used to 
> testing all the grounding points. When building a recording studio we 
> have to float all the grounds so they are single point at the service 
> panel and not looped anywhere else.  Often they are lifted at the 
> outlet j-box due to the lack of control in a prewired building.  
> Ironically we also used to use autoformers for all of the light 
> dimmers to prevent noise, so we often referred to the variacs as light 
> dimmers.
>
> I still don't completely trust a scope on an isolation transformer 
> even if the ground is properly isolated/ lifted due to the somewhat 
> rare magnetic emp events we are talking about like when I kicked off 
> all my ground faults in the house through one.
>
>
> On 11/3/2018 2:03 PM, Norman Wootan [email protected] [EVGRAY] wrote:
>>
>> Mick! Here is a helpful video regarding scopes and isolation 
>> transformers on the test bench!
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBsQ3sZ45Fk&feature=youtu.be
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaELqAo4kkQ
>>
>>
>> On 11/3/2018 12:36 PM, Mick [email protected] [EVGRAY] wrote:
>>>
>>> Norm,
>>>
>>> Thanks for the nudge in the right direction.  Now the process 
>>> demands repeating with a totally isolated battery source configured 
>>> the same way. Funny how I was concentrating on isolating and 
>>> connecting saturated inductive charge without the first magnetic 
>>> variable taken into account.
>>>
>>> I have had no problem creating the event with my grid power source 
>>> and even warned Sven that an isolation transformer will not always 
>>> protect his scope when messing around with this energy.  My scope 
>>> probe sitting on a bench shot me in the leg when I walked by when 
>>> performing the experiments from my bench supply.  The bench supply 
>>> has an isolation transformer of sorts. Being it is torroidal there 
>>> is more inter-winding capacitive coupling and mutual inductance than 
>>> with the proper EI transformer though there is at least the 
>>> electrostatic shield and galvanic isolation.
>>>
>>> Thanks for that reference. the Brit guy was funny, although I'm very 
>>> familiar with iso transformers in audio work used for galvanic 
>>> isolation and balancing to eliminate common mode noise.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 11/3/2018 4:42 AM, Norman Wootan [email protected] [EVGRAY] wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Mick!     Your DUH reference is funny!   To understand Isolation, 
>>>> best to study and understand the Isolation Transformer.   The super 
>>>> high quality ones are built to eliminate noise and DC components 
>>>> that effect sensitive instruments like EEG and EKG instruments. 
>>>> This will give you an idea as to construction and purpose::
>>>>
>>>> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isolation_transformer
>>>>
>>>> A little tutorial as to how they work!
>>>>
>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfzy5IQMzyc&feature=youtu.be
>>>>
>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14kPQif9P7c&feature=youtu.be
>>>>
>>>> https://toroid.com/Products/Medical-Isolation-Transformers
>>>>
>>>> The 230VAC, 5 HP locked rotor experiment was an example of 
>>>> electrically isolated electrical circuitry when mains contactor was 
>>>> opened since there was no neutral involve. There is magnetic and 
>>>> capacitive coup[ling only   The dielectric insulation was not 
>>>> compromised therefore no electrical connection.  The Chinese motor 
>>>> experiment was isolated, (electrically) when the reversing action 
>>>> was in transient. (Floating neutral) since there is a line neutral 
>>>> in the 120VAC input.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 11/2/2018 2:44 PM, Mick [email protected] [EVGRAY] wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Norm,
>>>>>
>>>>> Since you have performed mass research on this event would you concur
>>>>> with my long distance observation that the event is not only due to
>>>>> charge isolation but inclusive of a magnetic connection from source in
>>>>> addition to the saturated and lifted inductive load?
>>>>>
>>>>> Your bell buzzer and bell transformer acting as an isolation 
>>>>> transformer.
>>>>>
>>>>> Both motor experiments, the small Emerson type and the HVAC unit with
>>>>> only two hot's no neutral, must have been powered by an isolation
>>>>> transformer of some type also such as the utility step down for the
>>>>> neighborhood or dedicated delta or wye for commercial or even acted as
>>>>> such from the dual windings of the HVAC motor.
>>>>>
>>>>> Have you reliably produced the NS from any type of isolated battery
>>>>> system, or in all such cases was there a magnetic connection to an 
>>>>> earth
>>>>> bonding in another spot?
>>>>>
>>>>> My thoughts being one side of a transformer acting as a source is
>>>>> grounded and the secondary side isolated so that the only conceivable
>>>>> ground bonding on the sink might be considered as magnetic aside from
>>>>> the bonded motor frame or what not producing the reconnection.
>>>>>
>>>>> I may be pissing up a rope notwithstanding the NS seems to be 
>>>>> predicated
>>>>> on a B field connection somewhere in the source feed though the 
>>>>> neutral
>>>>> is isolated electrically.
>>>>>
>>>>> Perhaps this is a simple "Duh" to you that you had already figured out
>>>>> assuming everyone else at least this smart.  Either way it does create
>>>>> an interesting position in which to view 3 phase and transformers with
>>>>> an extra resonant winding.
>>>>>
>>>>> By the way, ironic your implication that the large medical isolation
>>>>> transformers create a heretofore unknown vector of extreme danger.
>>>>>
>>>>> Mick
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
>

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Subject Re: [EVGRAY] Neutral spike
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