Body
Hi Norman,
"Now let us look at Neutral Current!"
The neutral current can be brought back to neutral by using a zigzag transformer https://wiki2.org/en/Zigzag_transformer: 'Neutral current compensation techniques in autonomous wind energy sources:' https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s40095-014-0134-0 https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s40095-014-0134-0
Citing from the article:
Results of neutral current compensation by zig-zag transformer An unbalanced linear load as well as non-linear load is applied at the PCC to test for neutral current compensation. After the zig-zag transformer is switched by means of a breaker at t = 2 s, the current in the supply neutral (isn) is significantly reduced and validated by Fig. 6 https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s40095-014-0134-0#Fig6. The load neutral current is nearly 10 A which is entirely compensated by IZN, the zig-zag neutral current which is 10 A at t = 2 s. Open image in new window https://media.springernature.com/original/springer-static/image/art%3A10.1007%2Fs40095-014-0134-0/MediaObjects/40095_2014_134_Fig6_HTML.gif
Fig. 6 Results of current compensation by zig-zag transformer
Treating the grid as transmission lines will make it clear how to create or prevent current in the neutral wire or in the safety ground wire (physical earth).
Here is a video explaining the US split phase system. I.e. it has two phases 180 degrees out of phase with the neutral in the center: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-n8CiU_6KqE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-n8CiU_6KqE
The neutral wire is the return wire of the load. If the pulse length is short like a transient spike the pulse is traveling between the load wire and the neutral wire as they behave just a transmission line. One wire caries the positive part of the pulse while the other wire caries the negative part of the pulse traveling between the two wires. This makes the neutral return wire have a brief spike with reference to the ground wire. Actually a voltage can be induced in the ground wire too as the wires all have inductance and capacitance along them making them able to store energy in the space between them.
The figure is from here: https://nige.wordpress.com/electromagnetism-in-quantum-field-theory-part-2/ https://nige.wordpress.com/electromagnetism-in-quantum-field-theory-part-2/.
This illustrates the wave front traveling down a transmission line. Even if one of the wires is called neutral or ground a voltage spike can be detected on it. This is why it is critical when sharing the power ground and the signal ground in a PCB (printed circuit board). This gives false triggering in sensitive components like MOSFETs. When dealing with mains power it is even more critical as this has the power to destroy sensitive components.
Regards
Ole
---In [email protected], <nwootan@...> wrote :
http://videos.mathtutordvd.com/detail/videos/ac-circuit-analysis---vol-4---3-phase-circuits-part-1/video/310jd_DxH2s/01---what-is-3-phase-power-three-phase-electricity-tutorial?autoStart=true&gclid=CjwKCAjwkYDbBRB6EiwAR0T_-vs_AKjNp0I0qqXru1Qxt-eF716Y9FgaW8Gah3w0eq3vgop_UD-oZRoCAHYQAvD_BwE http://videos.mathtutordvd.com/detail/videos/ac-circuit-analysis---vol-4---3-phase-circuits-part-1/video/310jd_DxH2s/01---what-is-3-phase-power-three-phase-electricity-tutorial?autoStart=true&gclid=CjwKCAjwkYDbBRB6EiwAR0T_-vs_AKjNp0I0qqXru1Qxt-eF716Y9FgaW8Gah3w0eq3vgop_UD-oZRoCAHYQAvD_BwE Please! Some of you need to go back to 3 phase power 101 just as I had to do back 35 tears ago when I started working with 3 phase 480V buss power. The holding Co. that I worked for had 14 Commercial properties with all sorts of power distribution. My favorite property had a Trane Centrifugal (300HP) compressor in the chilled water cooling system. Back in the day that this system was installed, all that was available for phase imbalance was the old Furnas magnetic sensors. If an in-balance in current draw on a motor leg (over-voltage on a leg) occurred it would trip out the motor contactor. In summer with heavily loaded power grid we had frequent trip out on the 300HP motor controller. TU Electric brought in and analyzed the incoming 13.5KV to the underground transformer vault. The analyzer was left on incoming line for several days to get a plot of the power quality. It was found that during the day some load imbalance between 3 phase legs (13.5KV) gave voltage excursions which caused our problems. At the power sub station, more capacitors were installed to bring power factor back to optimum on all three legs. Problem solved. As time passed, companies like Fluke,Drantz and others came up with power analyzers that were technician friendly and were hand held to look for these problems and harmonic distortion in your power. Later more companies brought onto the scene solid state devices to monitor power quality directly on your application such as large elevator motors (30-40HP 3 phase) . The point here is that as we have advanced and have better understanding of power distribution problems, Industry has kept pace and have given us the means and methods we need. All that you seek to track, capture and put into useful work is right at you finger tips. It is just your desire and ingenuity to apply what is known to accomplish your goal. I guess the old military rule should apply, KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID. The old KISS rule. Stick with thyratron tubes for final control or switching for solid state is cannon fodder to spike energy. Just my opinion! Thanks Norm
https://3dfs.com/articles/automatically-balancing-phases-in-ac-electrical-networks/02/2016 https://3dfs.com/articles/automatically-balancing-phases-in-ac-electrical-networks/02/2016 Now let us look at Neutral Current!
On 7/31/2018 7:40 AM, Norman Wootan wrote:
Doug & Warren, I love your thinking process for designing a circuit (Ardino ?) that rapidly tracks the capacitance values needed to zero in on the targeted frequency for hard ferroresonance. Since solid state will not survive the environment, just use the circuits to control hard tubes like the thyratron do do the heavy lifting. Auto tracking circuits can be made to mitigate (avoid) the ferroresonance phenomenon, therefore the same circuit can auto target the values needed to capture the circuit parameters needed. Just my two cents thrown in, soon we will have a whole $dollar! Lol PS: Doug, I like the Fuck it, just Short Circuit! On my 5 HP compressor locked rotor experiment, I used a simple overload relay which was set for drop out at locked rotor amps (82 amps) which gave me the super saturation of the motor iron when the 2 pole single phase contactor (230 VAC) opened thus leaving the whole shebang in an isolated condition (no ground reference). When the isolated energy (magnetic saturated iron and 45mfd caps) cancelled, I got the EMP shot in the earth ground, Neutral Spike. Your thinking is right on! Norm
On 7/31/2018 6:22 AM, Warren Keillor schoonersolsticemoon@... mailto:schoonersolsticemoon@... [EVGRAY] wrote:
Doug
What is the cheapest, simplest, detector for peak voltage?
With such a detector, the signal can then close a heavy duty switch.
If it can chase the sine wave, where ever it goes, then you should be able to harvest the maximum energy.
Detectors: we should make a list of every possible peak since wave detector, for consideration.
Switches: relays, electronic, and mechanical methods of closing the circuit at the peak of the since wave, should be also listed.
This energy works. We know it is there. It burns out brushes, and commutators, and heats up power tools.
We also know we can bleed it off with diodes, to use in yet another motor, and actually see the voltage increase, from one motor to another, with permanent magnet DC motors.
The beauty of a solid state transformer based device, is that there are no friction producing parts rubbing together, turning to powder as it runs.
Cheers Warren
Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
On Tue, 31 Jul 2018 at 12:42 AM, konehead@... mailto:konehead@... [EVGRAY]
<[email protected]> mailto:[email protected] wrote:
Hi Warren
Just my two pcents but the variables to create ferroresonance and also resonance let's say in Air coil too, seen to be frequency, capacitance and inductance....however perhaps there is the fourth dimension overlooked which is extraction of this energy, not just the observation or prediction of it or the cancelling or avoidance of it which usually seems to be the "scientific purpose".....
As Sven is doing with diode plug exprimemts too,, he is extracting it into a load ( and not direct lump resistance.load as is shown in figure drawings)
And so the distribution of the positive or negative energies in sinewave via running through diodes into what I call collector caps, .
and only the collector caps see or feel effects of resistive load (and only discharged to resistive load when isolated and independent and disconnected more or less from the system or circuit that filled these caps)
now this brings upon not only the fourth dimension of "means of extraction" from the "resonant collecting caps" but also there becomes the fifth dimension of time and timing of how long and when to fill and discharge the resonant collector caps
Also as caps fill over time, and when they discharge and refill they again change the ferroresonance or resonance "parameters" of primary system that fills caps.
My sick plan is to fuck it all, instead SHORT CICUIT inductorsvery briefly with switch at peak periods, this cause hypernringing within coil and gives you simulation of resonant condition since you have same effects you want in extraction and that is voltage increase into capacitors X 20 or X 50 in magnitude.
Also short can be applied to AC or DC impulse take your pick...with DC it is done just before saturation, with AC, at.voltage peak periods.
Kone