Body
Hi everyone,
Recently I've spoke at the phone with a former colleague, a 65 years old electrician, which confirm me that the setup genset + motor really works in self-sustained mode. He made one some time ago that power a little grinder and a drill.The setup was as follows:One 0.75 kW electric motor as prime mover powered from mains. His role stopped when the revs are attained.One 2 kW electric motor that was powered by genset and when the speed of rotation was reached it power the genset, closing the loop .
One 4 kW genset with thermal engine removed, which act as generator. At the beginning is turned by the small motor, and after he starts to generate electricity it feed the 2 kW motor and the load (drill and grinder).No flywheel involved.No rotoverter setup involved. Only 3 PH current (mains and genset)Further details I'll obtain the next week when I hope to meet him personally.As you may see the hope is not dead.
Cheers Machiuka
On Saturday, February 24, 2018, 3:52:13 PM GMT+2, <[email protected]> wrote:
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Group
15 Messages
Digest #8910 1a Aw: [EVGRAY] Possible design of permanent magnet rotor inside altern by "Sven Friedrich" svenf73 1b Re: Aw: [EVGRAY] Possible design of permanent magnet rotor inside al by koneheadx 1c Re: Aw: [EVGRAY] Possible design of permanent magnet rotor inside al by koneheadx 1d Re: Aw: [EVGRAY] Possible design of permanent magnet rotor inside al by svenf73 1e Re: Aw: [EVGRAY] Possible design of permanent magnet rotor inside al by svenf73 1f Re: Aw: [EVGRAY] Possible design of permanent magnet rotor inside al by koneheadx 1g Aw: Re: [EVGRAY] Possible design of permanent magnet rotor inside a by "Sven Friedrich" svenf73 2 Jinis Transverter All Info by svenf73 3 transvertor circuit by "Douglas L. Konzen" koneheadx 4 Hector transvertor circuit from 1999 by "Douglas L. Konzen" koneheadx 5 more transvertor circuits by "Douglas L. Konzen" koneheadx 6 Brian P drawings and schematics by "Douglas L. Konzen" koneheadx 7 For Mick "invertor hack" file by "Douglas L. Konzen" koneheadx 8 Jinis Transvertor info by "Douglas L. Konzen" koneheadx 9.1 Re: SCR TURN ON AND OFF INFO FROM FILES by "Warren Keillor" schoonersolsticemoon
Messages
1a
Aw: [EVGRAY] Possible design of permanent magnet rotor inside altern
Sat Feb 24, 2018 12:36 am (PST) . Posted by:
"Sven Friedrich" svenf73
Hello Douglas,
I also saw the video of the Qmogen. Honestly, that's too easy.
laughing.
The left side is certainly an alternator from a car and the right
side an engine. As it looks like he used the generator as a motor
and the engine as a generator. Something is lazy there.
My 2 cents.
The drawings by Brian Prater, are something you could try as the
drive motor acts as an impedance so it can also give drive power
to its impedance effect and take the system into operation.
I also thought about trying something like this.
Here I have a large permanent magnet 3-phase synchronous motor
from Siemens and a DC motor from Siemens, the two coupled in
Rotoverter mode. The problem I see that the synchronous motor
must be brought to synchronous speed before it can be put into
operation. For this I would have to know the cap that I must use
so that there is no strong jerk in the system when turn on.
regards
Sven Gesendet: Freitag, 23. Februar 2018 um 21:30 Uhr
Von: "'Douglas L. Konzen' [email protected] [EVGRAY]"
<[email protected]>
An: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
Betreff: [EVGRAY] Possible design of permanent magnet rotor
inside alternator housing
Hi all
Here is idea I have of what there might be possiblility is inside
that alternator housing to left of the Indonesian looping
motor-generator. ...
I have space between coils same distance as magnet width in this
drawing, but actually I think the magnets twice the distance as
space between coils, or perhaps even better to have magnet width
be 1.618 distance greater (what I did when I made axial/flat disc
version of this)
Problem I see now is that the aluminum/allow housing of common
car alternator might cause bad eddy current problems with rotor
magnets if rotor magnets very strong neodymiums and rotate too
close to housing...
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1b
Re: Aw: [EVGRAY] Possible design of permanent magnet rotor inside al
Sat Feb 24, 2018 12:50 am (PST) . Posted by:
koneheadx
Hi Sven
I think you are talking about the Indonesian video of the motor and generator looper?
Yes who knows! I wrote to him, he will not give details....
That is a genset-generator on the right side that is for sure....perhaps he is using it as a motor!! (I don't know)
It sure looks like a common car alternator on the left, perhaps this is the type with permanent magnet (neodymium magnet) rotors that they make for wind turbines??? (I don't know)
Maybe that is not a car alternator on the left, but is a AC/DC universal-type motor from a washing machine??? (I don't know)
A lot of "I don't knows" !!
Can you tell me what drawings from Brian Prater you are writing about, as there are lots and lots of drawings and schematics from him in files....
Here is the exact as powered gen-set the Indonesian guy took the generator from (the right side in video)....I wonder if this could be used as motor??
http://www.yanmarpekanbaru.com/produk/detail/4/4-genset-generator-star-spg-1300 http://www.yanmarpekanbaru.com/produk/detail/4/4-genset-generator-star-spg-1300
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1c
Re: Aw: [EVGRAY] Possible design of permanent magnet rotor inside al
Sat Feb 24, 2018 12:54 am (PST) . Posted by:
koneheadx
HI Sven
I think the synchronous problem Brian Prater overcame by coupling the two motors with a "loose belt" so the slip of the belt "naturally&quo t; changes the AC sinewave leading into lagging, or the lagging into leading....not sure if this helps let me know what drawing of Brian you refer to....
ciao
Kone
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1d
Re: Aw: [EVGRAY] Possible design of permanent magnet rotor inside al
Sat Feb 24, 2018 1:06 am (PST) . Posted by:
svenf73
Hello Douglas,
I meant the drawing with the 1/6 HP engine and the 3 Hp generator in Rotovertermode. this 1 / 6hp engine what is this engine?
I would try it over a FWBR and a DC motor. The AC voltage is then simply looped through.
regards
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1e
Re: Aw: [EVGRAY] Possible design of permanent magnet rotor inside al
Sat Feb 24, 2018 1:07 am (PST) . Posted by:
svenf73
Hi Douglas,
In principle, you can operate every generator as a motor. In some simple and in other complicated, as synonymous with synchronous motor generator as a simple but easy to operate as a motor only with complicated control.
regards
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1f
Re: Aw: [EVGRAY] Possible design of permanent magnet rotor inside al
Sat Feb 24, 2018 2:53 am (PST) . Posted by:
koneheadx
Hi Sven
I think that 1'6hp motor in schematic is a single-phase AC motor and it is important to have that belt loose, so that it will be slipping.... .
I believe this is the circuit Brian did for his looping riding electric lawnmower... .but not sure about that.
I have some other Brian Prater schematics that I found after recently going through all the files in EVGRAY, and putting them all into a flash drive....
I will send some more after this post, via attachment in email to EVGRAY.....
I hope not to confuse you more haha!
Also have some more transvertor information too you probably have not seen yet...
ciaoKone
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1g
Aw: Re: [EVGRAY] Possible design of permanent magnet rotor inside a
Sat Feb 24, 2018 4:51 am (PST) . Posted by:
"Sven Friedrich" svenf73
Hello Douglas,
you do not confuse me, i always like to read your ideas and
thoughts about energy.
Jini also built a transverter according to Hector's
specifications, unfortunately I can not find anything about him
on the internet or the pages are empty.
These circuits you already have all of those of Brian Prater,
I've been diligent. laughing.
It could have been that something went down over time.
I will rebuild the diode plug again with double high power diodes
which I try to get cheap on ebay. Then I will try the system 100%
symmetrical build up with cable lengths and shortest positions of
the components. I think Hector, I can imagine that all the
components must be the same so that it works perfectly, in
electrical engineering we are pretty sloppy in terms of
tolerances. In a gearbox, the gears must also mesh perfectly with
each other, if the tolerances are too great, it jams or
everything is very difficult.
I would wish to hear again something from Hector, which belongs
to the topic, I even miss his swearing. laughing.
regards
Sven Gesendet: Samstag, 24. Februar 2018 um 11:53 Uhr
Von: "[email protected] [EVGRAY]" <[email protected]>
An: [email protected]
Betreff: Re: Aw: [EVGRAY] Possible design of permanent magnet
rotor inside alternator housing
Hi Sven
I think that 1'6hp motor in schematic is a single-phase AC motor
and it is important to have that belt loose, so that it will be
slipping.... .
I believe this is the circuit Brian did for his looping riding
electric lawnmower... .but not sure about that.
I have some other Brian Prater schematics that I found after
recently going through all the files in EVGRAY, and putting them
all into a flash drive...
I will send some more after this post, via attachment in email to
EVGRAY....
I hope not to confuse you more haha!
Also have some more transvertor information too you probably have
not seen yet...
ciaoKone
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2
Jinis Transverter All Info
Sat Feb 24, 2018 12:46 am (PST) . Posted by:
svenf73
Hello Douglas, and everyone,
Is there more information about Jinis Transverter Replication besides the ones in the relevant pdfs?
The links to the websites no longer work or the website no longer exists. Maybe he has a new website?
I ask for information
regards
Sven
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3
transvertor circuit
Sat Feb 24, 2018 3:05 am (PST) . Posted by:
"Douglas L. Konzen" koneheadx
here is transvertor circuit by "Gusoveran&quo t; from a few years ago
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4
Hector transvertor circuit from 1999
Sat Feb 24, 2018 3:07 am (PST) . Posted by:
"Douglas L. Konzen" koneheadx
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5
more transvertor circuits
Sat Feb 24, 2018 3:13 am (PST) . Posted by:
"Douglas L. Konzen" koneheadx
this is good tranvertor circuit, but is in ZIP file, and contains PNG type of files within it - hopefully it will open
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6
Brian P drawings and schematics
Sat Feb 24, 2018 3:28 am (PST) . Posted by:
"Douglas L. Konzen" koneheadx
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7
For Mick "invertor hack" file
Sat Feb 24, 2018 3:33 am (PST) . Posted by:
"Douglas L. Konzen" koneheadx
Hi Mick
Maybe this will help you hack into your invertor and make if frequency adjustable.. ..here it is a WAGAN invertor, and Chad Underwood (cousin of Ian Underwood of FZ and mothers of invention) took out the resistor that controls frequency, and put in a potentiometer instead...
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8
Jinis Transvertor info
Sat Feb 24, 2018 5:48 am (PST) . Posted by:
"Douglas L. Konzen" koneheadx
Sven - - All the stuff I can find in EVGRAY files on Jinis transvertor work is inside this "transvertor R and D" file....there is good response and answers from Hector....sorry its all in English..
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9.1
Re: SCR TURN ON AND OFF INFO FROM FILES
Sat Feb 24, 2018 5:51 am (PST) . Posted by:
"Warren Keillor" schoonersolsticemoon
MickOddly enough, I had the very best luck with an incredibly small inverter that was over twenty years old.It was a Statpower made in Burnaby British Columbia, and only 125 watts.It was the unit that without bells, buzzers, or breakers, drove ten big permanent magnet motors at full speed, and power using Doug's bridge rectifier idea of parallel connecting a whole chain of these motors each with the rectifier AC legs down to the brush wires of the motor before it, in a line, in my case, of ten motors.I started feeding the 125 watt inverter into a 5 amp Variac, set at 35 volts.There was a progressive increase in voltage through the ten motors as one measured along the line of motors, until at the last one, it was about 93 volts.As you know, when you increase the voltage to these DC motors, you increase the speed.Well what about power? This was a question I asked myself.One of the motors, in about the middle of the line, happened to have a vee belt pulley on it, so I took yet another motor, and ran it as a generator off this randomly picked motor.The nice thing about a generator is that you can load it up, which I did. I think I remember it was 7.5 amps, or there about.All this time number 10, at 93 volts, was screaming away, unaffected in speed, or, I presume, power.
On one run, number 10 did a flip off the end of the bench with switch on.This knocked a field magnet loose, which required a take apart, and the magnet crazy glue thing.All in all, I found it interesting that ten big DC motors could be run from one 125 watt inverter that was only connected to a single 5 amp 12 volt lead acid battery. The motors were running for over a half hour, with no apparent slow down, or lack of power. The torque on anyone of them, as full as these motors normally deliver, which is quite considerable.I do think I might redo this experiment yet again.I blew a transistor, carelessly, on that Statpower, doing a complerely different experiment.I find the new inverters sold at Canadian Tire crap. They twitch, and beep, using any excuse for not running, using their smart little logic, rather than stoically delivering, until they explode, and burn.Cheers Warren
Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
On Sat, Feb 24, 2018 at 1:12 AM, [email protected] [EVGRAY]<[email protected]> wrote:
Warren,
I will have to take another look for surplus around here, don't think there is much of that within 250 miles.
There is a metal recycling place that sometimes rarely has these but they usually try for more than 20 bucks.
Ah the magic of large cities and dumpster diving!
I do keep my eyes out for curbside motorized excercise equipment like treadmills and such.
By the way I picked up a cheap Chinese inverter 220 3000 watt, so probably good for 1000 watts near full duty. Would not trust it as is, they were too cheap to use micas to seperate the fets from the heat sinks and used little silicon tubes cut to 3/4 inch over each piece of silicon. Of course no theremal paste, does not bode well for future use.
Anyhow the circuit is quite handy as it has two TL494's and four transformers.
Have you had a look at all one can do with a 494?
It's very fast 500ns, very hard switching with a wide frequency response determined by either an outside triangle pulse like a signal gen or it's own internal oscillator and an R/C like a 555 or another 494 it slaves to. A wide frequency range and voltage adjustable duty cycle by how much DC one of the pins sees. There are two driver sections that run parallel or push pull, one to drive fets right at their gates and a flip flop that runs at either 50 or 60 cycles to drive something else like SCR's to switch the whatever one does with the first section to square wave AC.
I wish the last part flip flop was variable too but I think it's programmed at 50 or 60hz but the first part is still there to toy with.
This inverter is called modified sine but there is nothing sine about it, super hard square edges. Of course one could add the filters and such to get a better representation of a sine but otherwise this thing can be hacked into 2 channels of push pull variable frequency coil pulser/drivers. I think the frequency is good from around 1k to 300k and can be driven right from a function generator or two.
Anyone here hacked a 494 while still inside a cheap inverter to pull variable frequency energy before the last FWB? #yiv3855261779 #yiv3855261779 -- #yiv3855261779ygrp- mkp {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font- family:Arial; margin:10px 0;padding:0 10px;}#yiv385526177 9 #yiv3855261779ygrp- mkp hr {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;}#yiv385526 1779 #yiv3855261779ygrp- mkp #yiv3855261779hd {color:#628c2a; font-size: 85%;font- weight:700; line-height: 122%;margin: 10px 0;}#yiv3855261779 #yiv3855261779ygrp- mkp #yiv3855261779ads {margin-bottom: 10px;}#yiv385526 1779 #yiv3855261779ygrp- mkp .yiv3855261779ad {padding:0 0;}#yiv3855261779 #yiv3855261779ygrp- mkp .yiv3855261779ad p {margin:0;}# yiv3855261779 #yiv3855261779ygrp- mkp .yiv3855261779ad a {color:#0000ff; text-decoration: none;}#yiv385526 1779 #yiv3855261779ygrp- sponsor #yiv3855261779ygrp- lc {font-family: Arial;}#yiv38552 61779 #yiv3855261779ygrp- sponsor #yiv3855261779ygrp- lc #yiv3855261779hd {margin:10px 0px;font-weight: 700;font- size:78%; line-height: 122%;}#yiv385526 1779 #yiv3855261779ygrp- sponsor #yiv3855261779ygrp- lc .yiv3855261779ad {margin-bottom: 10px;padding: 0 0;}#yiv3855261779 #yiv3855261779actio ns {font-family: Verdana;font- size:11px; 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